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i took my mother to see a new doctor (general practice) who works for a mixed-practice facility, in which both conventional and holistic methods are used. In fact, this particular dr. is training for a degree in holistic medicine. Now it appears she was clearly not doing this for the right reasons. I guess its becoming fashionable or maybe an avenue for profit. She referred my mother to a cardiologist (I asked for one that practices natural healing but she couldn't find one (big surprise). My mom is an AFib patient. Well a few days after we got the lanoxin, coreg and coumadin, my mother said she was too afraid to take these things. I supported her 100%. I told her she would have to do what Dr. Stoll educates people here to do for this, continue her magnesium and start practicing SR. She has agreed to do this. So I cancelled her follow up appt. with the cardiologist since she wasn't taking the medication for them to monitor anything. Since this happened a week ago, I have suggested she may have no choice in the short term but to take the Lanoxin, if only a few times a week, to deal with the AFib. I want her to get back far enough from the "edge of the cliff" so she can start to heal. That's hard to do when your heart is trying to beat 300 times a minute. My thinking is if she doesn't "digitalize" on the lanoxin, she won't have to worry so much about the more dangerous side effects. Does that make sense?
I talked to the primary care physician for an hour on the phone last week about my mom's decision to go the natural healing path. This was when I realized how NON-holistic this person's thinking actually is. This general practice doctor has now sent my mom a letter, telling her how dangerous her condition is, telling her she has probably less than a year to live, and that her Kava is not safe. I already knew about the liver thing with Kava, but both my mom and I take very low amts. and from what I understand, only people with existing liver disease or those taking excessive amts should be concerned. The main thing that has me HOPPING MAD is the comment in the letter, which my 83yr old mother read, saying she has less than a year to live unless she does starts taking these dangerous drugs. Of course, they probably think its a great improvement if a person can go from the 3rd leading cause of death (stroke) into the 4th leading cause of death (medications!)
Sorry, i needed to vent here, and I know i'm among friends. On top of everything, my brother is convinced my mother should be taking the vitamins Bruce West recommends (Standard Process) saying she is not getting enough B complex. But she gets 200-500% of the RDAs of B (natural, not synthetic) and has been for years. The thing she hasn't gotten enough of until now are vitamins E and C, and I've corrected that with therapeutic doses of both E (1200ius / 100% natural) and ascorbic acid (3g) on a daily basis.
Any suggestions on a response to this letter which terribly upset my mother? I know it was a CYA thing, which is why it disgusts me so much.
Thanks.
P
In Reply to: A Little Upset here > posted by peterb on February 11, 2003 at 22:50:12:
Peter,
Can you find a Holistic MD? One who practices IV therapy and Chelation?
I lost my mother to cardiovascular disease when I was very young. I look forward to Walt's perspective on AFib.
In my opinion, no matter how complicated the context, to inform a patient of that sort of prognosis in letter form is very distressing. You might affirm to your mother that NO ONE is a statistic. The physician is probably basing her prognosis partly on statistics and also partly on her experience, however this does NOT EVER mean that the physician has a crystal ball, as you know. Human beings can surprise physicians; they do every day. A positive perspective is imperative in any serious illness.
My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer that had spread throughout his body- he went to Johns Hopkins, and that continued to be confirmed. If one were to have looked simply at his numbers, the prognosis would have been grim by conventional standard. He did decide on hormone therapy.
It is now seven years later, and he continues to live a full life: juices, meditates, grows organic veggies, travels. One interesting element is that he absolutely REFUSED to accept ANY data to the contrary- from ANYone.
On the Kava, my Naturopath said NO WAY, based on his interpretation of recent studies. I'll be interested in Walt's idea on the Kava, too.
In Reply to: A Little Upset here > posted by peterb on February 11, 2003 at 22:50:12:
Thanks, PeterB.
Only in a monopoly could this kind of crap happen. Surprise, surprise! I happen to agree with the doc's position on her taking the dangerous drugs--with close supervision--since it would help to control her symptoms until her wellness approach works.
My father developed AF while I was a sophomore in medical school. In fact it was my first real, unassisted diagnosis. I listened to his heart (I was practicing with my new shiny stethescope.) when I was visiting the farm and, lo and behold, he had the totally dysrrhythmic beat of AF. At that point, of course, I knew none of the stuff like SR and magnesium so at that time I got him to a cardiologist. He lived without symptoms for 30 years after that and died of an unrelated condition.
I agree that most likely her doc is CYA about the dire warnings. There is no way such a prediction can be made unless your mother has a VERY unusual case of AF! However, most "holistic docs" only know a little about the alternatives and you really cannot blame them for that. There is SO much to learn.
The real danger with AF is that the atria only quiver and do not actually beat. That means that clots CAN form in the atria which might then be flushed into the circulation. If they go to the brain they could cause a stroke. That is really a very uncommon occurrance though. However, since conventional medicine can do SOMETHING about it, conventional docs seize upon it to prove that they can at least do something about chronic conditions.
I know of no one who has actually done an analysis about whether the average treated ones live longer than the ones who are not treated at all. The result might be another embarrassment.
Anyhow, it will be difficult for the prescribing doc to consider (once started) stopping the lanoxin, anticoagulation combination once the SR and magnesium stops the problem since they will be convinced that is their conventional treatment that has done the trick.
Perhaps by then the educational level, of her so far openminded doc, will have progressed to the point where she can guide her in a trial of discontinuing the medications (at least a year after she has done the holistic stuff very well).
Let us know how she does. Do not be surprised if, when the medications stop her symptoms, she gets lazy about changing her life style. If that happens she should just do the conventional thing and live with it. The stress of your urging her to be a good girl could be worse than the condition itself.
Unfortunately since the CYA has now upset your mother, she may have the attitude of: Since I am only going to live a year I might as well live it up. What matters is not what the doctor actually said but what interpretation your mother puts on it.
Hope this helps.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: A Little Upset here > (Archive in cardiac conditions.) posted by Walt Stoll on February 12, 2003 at 07:08:34:
This helps a great deal, you're a godsend. Thanks Dr. Stoll.
In Reply to: Re: A Little Upset here > posted by H on February 12, 2003 at 07:05:06:
H, I appreciate your comments. Did you mean by "NO Way," that your naturopath feels it's bad to take it or that there's no way kava could be harmful?
In Reply to: A Little Upset here > posted by peterb on February 11, 2003 at 22:50:12:
Hi Peter,
Sorry not much to offer on this one. My Naturopath strongly reversed his opinion recently on Kava, citing recent studies that indicated that "the risks outweighed the benefits". As I did not read the clinical studies, I did not pursue it.
It does seem that the safety of Kava continues to be hotly debated in the USA and elsewhere-
and has now been banned in Switzerland, France, and Canada-and I think by voluntary withdrawl in Britian. This does relate to the liver toxicity you mentioned.
I noticed that Mercola also now discourages the use of Kava, in favor of relaxation techniques such as accupressure... there is a tiny blurb on his web site.
In Reply to: Re: A Little Upset here > posted by H on February 12, 2003 at 12:31:41:
i was aware that Kava might affect people with liver disease, i wasn't aware it was causing this much of a concern. thanks so much.
In Reply to: Re: A Little Upset here > (Archive in cardiac conditions.) posted by Walt Stoll on February 12, 2003 at 07:08:34:
Dr Stoll,
When i typed out my message, I failed to mention that my mother was also diagnosed with CHF just recently, which I'm thinking is just a complication of AFib. Would this have affected your response in any way?
Thanks much again.
P
In Reply to: Re: A Little Upset here > posted by H on February 12, 2003 at 07:05:06:
Thanks, H.
I have no experience with Kava.
I appreciate your testimonial about your Dad!
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: I have an update > posted by peterb on February 12, 2003 at 16:07:21:
Yes, PeterB.
It is very rare for AF to cause CHF. However, when both are present it usually means that some form of cardiomyopathy is the base smoking gun for both. That means that about 100 milligrams of CoQ10 3 times a day could be a lot of help.
Of course there are a lot of causes of cardiomyopathy but you would need a good clinical ecologist to sort that out for you.
Let us know how she does.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: I have an update > posted by Walt Stoll on February 13, 2003 at 08:01:18:
Dr. Stoll, thanks for your clarity. I had wondered if her 50mg daily was enough, this tells me more what I needed to know.
Peter
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