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The End Of Homeopathy

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The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 16:14:33:

British homeopaths are celebrating Homeopathy Awareness Week, yet it seems to me there is very little for them to celebrate.

Earlier this year, a report from the Commons Science and Technology Committee concluded that the principles of homeopathy are implausible and that the evidence fails to show that it works better than placebo. The MPs also criticised homeopaths for trying to mislead the public by providing inaccurate information. Their recommendation to government was to stop funding homeopathy on the NHS.

Then the Prince of Wales's Foundation for Integrated Health, a staunch supporter of homeopathy in the NHS, folded in the midst of a police investigation for fraud and money laundering.

Last month, the British Medical Association described homeopathy as "witchcraft" and called for an end to all funding on the NHS.

A streak of bad luck? Not really. Homeopathy's fortunes have been crumbling for quite some time. The evidence to suggest that it has effects beyond those of a placebo has become less and less convincing. In 2005, The Lancet even pronounced "the end of homeopathy".

As a result, one of the five NHS-funded homeopathic hospitals had to close. After assessing the science, its NHS trust found that the evidence did not justify any further funding.

Faced with increasing criticism, UK homeopaths become more and more desperate. My team has found that the Society of Homeopaths even appears to have been in breach of its own code of ethics in attempting to promote homeopathy. On the society's website, numerous statements about efficacy were made that were not backed by science and so were not allowed under its own regulations.

The society's chief executive commented at the time, in November 2009, that she was grateful to me for highlighting these issues and that the society would investigate and make amendments where appropriate. The website has since changed but many, perhaps even most, members of that organisation continue to make claims that violate their society's ethical standards.

This is not a trivial or academic point. Recently Simon Singh won the libel case that the British Chiropractic Association (BCA) had brought against him. Singh had alleged that the BCA made unsupported claims. When the case was brought, several bloggers and sceptics then went through the claims made by UK chiropractors with a fine tooth comb and subsequently reported around 600 of them to their regulator for violating the rules that regulate their practice.

These are serious allegations that cannot be swept under the carpet. Perusing this number of complaints in an orderly fashion will be extremely costly. The expense could turn out to be unaffordable for chiropractors and thus bankrupt their organisations.

So even as homeopaths celebrate their "awareness week", bloggers and sceptics enthused by their success on the chiropractic front might already be considering action against any unsubstantiated claims made by UK homeopaths. This could truly be the end of homeopathy.

Edzard Ernst is professor of complementary medicine at the Peninsula Medical School in Exeter



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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 15, 2010 at 16:58:59:

In Reply to: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 16:14:33:

uk,

You can "cherry pick" the "evidence" all you want. You can carefully support your position until you die. I hope you live 100 more years so you can come up against the hard truths you so delight in denying.

Walt


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 17:59:59:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 15, 2010 at 16:58:59:

It's not really a case of cherry picking the evidence, when every ripening cherry tastes like homeopathy is bunk.

In 100 years (probably a lot less) homeopathy will be today's alchemy.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by Ron [5412.8172] on June 15, 2010 at 21:43:13:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 17:59:59:

Hi Chris,

What you are seeing is the fight between Alopaths
and homeopaths and chiropractors over the shrinking NHS
funding.
Keeping the aging population away from cheaper alternatives is the goal.
How can the mainstream system kill them off if they don't use the system?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by Tonia [4685.8397] on June 15, 2010 at 22:31:24:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by Ron [5412.8172] on June 15, 2010 at 21:43:13:

I think it can be shown that the effectiveness of many of the Big
Pharma drugs are little more than placebo, too. The only problem is
that the Big Pharma drugs can result in life threatening side effects.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 16, 2010 at 06:04:11:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by Ron [5412.8172] on June 15, 2010 at 21:43:13:

Any reason to believe this or just speculation?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 10:41:53:

In Reply to: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 16:14:33:

The only "witchcraft" at work in homeopathy is conventional medicine's rabid witch hunt against it and against anything threatening their profit.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by Fork in the Road [358.8354] on June 16, 2010 at 10:54:03:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 10:41:53:

Philly,

I received this through e-mail today:

Witching and moaning

The best treatments in alternative medicine are ones that cause the mainstream to scream the loudest -- so judging by the cries from the U.K., homeopathy must be the bee's knees.

Dr. Tom Dolphin of the British Medical Association's junior doctors committee is urging the powers that run his nation's socialized medical system to kill all funding for homeopathy.

"Homeopathy is witchcraft," he said, according to the Daily Telegraph newspaper. He also said it's a "disgrace" that it receives funding, and his committee says there's no scientific basis for homeopathy.

My first thought is: Who the heck is this guy? A junior doctor? Turns out he's actually deputy chairman of the BMA's junior doctors committee -- so even among juniors, he's a junior.

I wonder if he gets a little plastic badge.

Maybe Deputy Dolphin should wait for the training wheels to come off before he starts spewing ignorance -- because clearly, he hasn't been doing his homework. The idea that there's no scientific evidence in favor of homeopathy is downright laughable.

I've seen plenty of studies that back homeopathic medicine, especially for acute conditions such as colds and allergies, and I've told you about some of them over the years.

Maybe Junior needs to start reading the medical journals, or at least the Daily Dose.

Personally, I'd trust the "witchcraft" of an experienced homeopath before I'd ever put my health in the hands of a British junior doctor.

If you want to try homeopathy, don't let the baby doctors of Britain scare you away. But do yourself a favor: Skip the useless off-the-shelf homeopathic remedies you'll find in the big box drug stores and visit a certified homeopath instead. The National Center for Homeopathy can help you find one near you.

http://clicks.douglassreport.com//t/AQ/AAG4SQ/AAG-Sg/AAHmVA/Ag/AlemtA/4fY1

And if you expect to meet someone with a pointy hat
standing over a cauldron, you'll be disappointed.

Looking for some eye of newt,
William Campbell Douglass II, M.D.




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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by samm [1003.2765] on June 16, 2010 at 11:59:02:

In Reply to: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 16:14:33:

just wondering...
when you are a guest in someone's home, do you start an argument about the Host's core beliefs every time
you sit down in their parlour?

If, so...
do you get invited back much?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 16, 2010 at 12:15:30:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by samm [1003.2765] on June 16, 2010 at 11:59:02:

Not unless they're a homeopath haha.



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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 16, 2010 at 12:17:37:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 10:41:53:

Because selling tubes of water to the vulnerable is a useful and honest enterprise?

"don't stop believin'"...


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 16, 2010 at 13:31:20:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by Fork in the Road [358.8354] on June 16, 2010 at 10:54:03:

"I wonder if he gets a little plastic badge."

He sounds like a classy guy. How can you read this and not thing how bitter and immature he is? I'm sorry, but it's just not professional for a doctor dispensing important medical advice.

"I've seen plenty of studies that back homeopathic medicine, especially for acute conditions such as colds and allergies, and I've told you about some of them over the years."

I'm convinced! He's seen plenty of studies that back homeopathic medicine and he's told me about some of them over the years...! WHAT!?!?!

Unbelievable trash.



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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by Joe [140.8677] on June 16, 2010 at 13:36:53:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 15, 2010 at 16:58:59:

I agree.

Some swear by it, some don't, but it's been around for ages, just like Kinesiology and Acupuncture, and I doubt it's going to ever end.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 16, 2010 at 13:51:38:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by Joe [140.8677] on June 16, 2010 at 13:36:53:

You have a point. People have always believed strange things, there will always be intellectual rebellers; those who don't trust academics and scientists. Astrology is another phenomenon without basis that is utterly ridiculous, but rakes in millions from those gullible enough to think the alignment of stars and planets have some influence on their lives. It's not even funny, just sad.





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Re: The End Of Homeopathy-- Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 16, 2010 at 14:26:16:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by Fork in the Road [358.8354] on June 16, 2010 at 10:54:03:

Right on, Fork!

Especially your last recommendation about not wasting your money on "store homeopathics". Reliable use requires a professional--who is much better trained and experienced than nearly ANY allopath, in my experience.

Walt


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 15:58:24:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 16, 2010 at 12:17:37:

UK:

I am a user of homeopathic medicine and do not consider myself vulnerable. On the contrary, I chose to investigate and experience homeopathy for myself before passing judgment on it.

Perhaps those parroting the anti-homeopathic rants of conventional medicine are the true vulnerable ones?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 16:04:16:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by Fork in the Road [358.8354] on June 16, 2010 at 10:54:03:

"...The best treatments in alternative medicine are ones that cause the mainstream to scream the loudest"

Yes, that must be the gauge by which to measure the effectiveness of alternative medicine. And, judging by the screams, homeopathy sure is effective.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 16:12:09:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 16, 2010 at 13:51:38:

Some of the best academics and scientists once believed that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around it. So called "science" isn't always right.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 16, 2010 at 16:41:53:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 16:04:16:

Or bunk. You decide.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 16, 2010 at 16:45:49:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 16:12:09:

Nope. That is what the science of the day WAS at that point. And then evidence was found to the contrary and science moved on. Evidence has NOT presented itself for homeopathy so it remains on the outside. Why is this if it's such an old and successful theory? *insert crazy conspiracy theory here*.

I hate this wallowing in anti-intellectualism. Scientists aren't in cahoots against the rest of us. They're the people who brought us every daily convenience around us and put men on the moon!


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 16, 2010 at 17:26:31:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 16, 2010 at 15:58:24:

what have you used it for, with what results?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by PhillyLady [10299.8735] on June 16, 2010 at 18:23:51:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 16, 2010 at 17:26:31:

Vince:

I have used a homeopathic spray for sore throats, the pellets for post-nasal drip, the pellets for sleep, and the pellets for gallbladder attacks, all with success.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by PhillyLady [10299.8735] on June 16, 2010 at 18:25:54:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 16, 2010 at 16:45:49:

And you must realize that science isn't advanced enough to understand and explain homeopathy. Someday it will be.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 16, 2010 at 23:49:29:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by PhillyLady [10299.8735] on June 16, 2010 at 18:25:54:

Ok so you're better educated than the scientists...............

sorry I like you, but no.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 17, 2010 at 06:12:51:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH! posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 16, 2010 at 23:49:29:

uk,

Have you ever considered that this question is "both and" just as the physicists quarrel, at the turn of the century, about whether light was a particle or a wave? They finally had to agree that it was BOTH a particle AND a wave at the same time. It took those physicists nearly 50 years of acrimonious "debate" before they could think differently and progress.

Walt


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by Ron [5412.8172] on June 17, 2010 at 20:05:00:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 17, 2010 at 06:12:51:

Hi Walt,

The big question I have about light.... is...
If it is a particle, how can that travel at the
speed of light?

On a lighter note...
Why doesn't light accumulate on the beach after a
long day of bright sunshine?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 17, 2010 at 21:16:47:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by Ron [5412.8172] on June 17, 2010 at 20:05:00:

I believe it Is a wave that Acts like a particle.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 17, 2010 at 23:03:45:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by PhillyLady [10299.8735] on June 16, 2010 at 18:23:51:

I used to use a Rescue Remedy for stressful situations. It FELT like a crutch. Never did I think there was any actual benefit. But using it definitely offered some placebo that made me feel better than not having it. Therein lies the apparent effectiveness of homeopathy. A very profitable industry established around believing. But never be cynical towards those guys, because they mean well........


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 18, 2010 at 06:47:47:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by Ron [5412.8172] on June 17, 2010 at 20:05:00:

Thanks, Ron.

You will have to aks your friendly neighborhood physicist. It is beyond MY understanding but I DO believe it is true. Listen to VF.

Walt


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 18, 2010 at 09:53:48:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 17, 2010 at 23:03:45:

UK:

Ah, so you did receive some benefit from homeopathy but refused to acknowledge its effectiveness by deeming it "placebo". Admit it, son, you simply refused to give credit where credit was due, because it would have gone against your philosophy.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 18, 2010 at 11:10:24:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by PhillyLady [9150.8799] on June 18, 2010 at 09:53:48:

I'm saying I received benefit from it as a crutch. It was a remedy for increasing confidence in a stressful situation, and just using it made me feel like I could be more confident because I'd taken action, albeit completely ineffective.

How can you give credit to something that has no active ingredient? It's all in the mind. Stating that homeopathy offers MORE than placebo is (by definition) a philosophy because it is only (and will only ever be) a belief system. You say otherwise, but where scientific double blind studies? It would be very easy to do. I guess there's some conspiracy by those pesky scientists........

Also, when was the last time you heard about homeopathy curing something that doesn't eventually either fix itself or is such a mild condition that is could easily be influenced by psychological factors, like hayfever or a cough (thus the placebo effect). You won't ever see "homeopathy cures woman of brain tumor" or "homeopathy regrows man's limb". Homeopathy can only make claims where there is room for belief. It's like prayer; doesn't change anything but people continue to believe it might do something.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy

Posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 18, 2010 at 11:19:47:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [1490.2450] on June 18, 2010 at 11:10:24:

...and they don't seem to care that it isn't proven or that there is no way it could even work. Other than making FURTHER extraordinary and unsubstantiated claims that defy sense.


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Futurama on Homeopathy....

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 18, 2010 at 23:25:05:

In Reply to: The End Of Homeopathy posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 15, 2010 at 16:14:33:




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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by uk [10820.8739] on June 18, 2010 at 23:29:02:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.8847] on June 17, 2010 at 06:12:51:

I don't see how bringing up a different scientific topic altogether strengthens the case for homeopathy. Do people have differences of opinion? Yes. Are scientists people? Yes. However the problem for you is that there is no debate in the scientific community about homeopathy.


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by k. [2065.8802] on June 19, 2010 at 02:56:07:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 17, 2010 at 21:16:47:

What made you come to that conclusion, VF?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 19, 2010 at 09:25:53:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by k. [2065.8802] on June 19, 2010 at 02:56:07:

let me think...


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 19, 2010 at 09:37:20:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by k. [2065.8802] on June 19, 2010 at 02:56:07:

puzzling



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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by k. [2065.8802] on June 19, 2010 at 17:52:55:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 19, 2010 at 09:37:20:

Can you summarize the significant point(s) as I can't see videos?


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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 20, 2010 at 01:55:09:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by k. [2065.8802] on June 19, 2010 at 17:52:55:

might be better to read this. I haven't thought through what they claim yet.



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Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive.

Posted by k. [2065.8802] on June 20, 2010 at 03:45:24:

In Reply to: Re: The End Of Homeopathy--BIGGER SIGH!--"BOTH AND" -- archive. posted by VF [12036.8753] on June 20, 2010 at 01:55:09:

Thanks VF, I will read this tomorrow!


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