All,
Anybody had any success/failure with flower essences or gem or star elixirs? Anyone know of any double or triple blind studies done using the above.
Any such information would be appreciated.
-Thomas
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs
Posted by Kaye in Colorado on September 07, 1998 at 16:34:36:
In Reply to: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs posted by Thomas Seay on September 07, 1998 at 14:34:36:
Thomas,
The results of one double blind study is at:
www.flowersociety.org/Cram-FFF.html
Kaye
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs
Posted by Walt Stoll on September 08, 1998 at 07:07:20:
In Reply to: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs posted by Thomas Seay on September 07, 1998 at 14:34:36:
Dear Thomas,
I have had personal experience with Bach Flower Essences. They are not so difficult to learn to use as other Homeopathic remedies. I suspect it it because there are so many fewer of them. The last I checked, there were more than 25,000 Homeopathic remedies. See Kaye's note about a study.
Double blind studies are becoming much more common throughout the world since these are pretty easy to do with these substances. The problem seems to be as the old adage so clearly states: "If someone is confronted with 1000 studies supporting something s/he doesn't want to know, s/he will ask for 1001."
By far, the best laboratory for testing these substances is still the person's own bodymind since people are all so different and these effects are usually subtle: "If it works for that person, it works for that person." These are harmless (and relatively inexpensive) substances why not give them a try?
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs
Posted by Thomas Seay on September 08, 1998 at 18:44:57:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs posted by Walt Stoll on September 08, 1998 at 07:07:20:
Walt,
I agree that the best laboratory is my own body, especially since it is not dangerous. However, there are some reasons why I would like to hear other experiences and see some tests.
One, they take a long time (I believe) to take action.
Two, now there are a large number of these esences (although not as many as homeopathy). Besides the array of Bach Flowers, there are numerous essences put out by the Flower Essence Society here in California, Pegasus products, Alaskan Essences, and Australian Bush essences. This does not even include the gem elixirs and star exlixirs.
Three, the benefits and uses of these essences have mostly been catalogued by channeled sources. While I think this is a legitimate means of obtaining information, it is not flawless. I would like to see the finding subjected to some scientific criteria. It should stand up. I realize the problems with double-blind tests...nonetheless, I think it would be a good thing, provided it is done by a relatively objective institution.
Four, I am trying many different forms of alternative treatment presently, so I dont know if I can justly isolate what is having what effect.
I would like to hear about your experience with Bach Flowers. By the way, even though I have made the above request, I am experimenting with them myself.
Thomas
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs
Posted by Walt Stoll on September 09, 1998 at 11:04:30:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs posted by Thomas Seay on September 08, 1998 at 18:44:57:
Hi, Thomas.
Testing these kind of things by double blind IS valid and as easy to do as double blinds can be. There is no reason (other than economic) for these studies not to have been done.
The only way I know of for the individual "laboratory" to test these out is by only doing one thing at a time. In MY experience (and as I undersrtand them), if the correct remedy is used, the results are almost instantaneous--certainly within a few days at most.
I know that there are many different companies making these essences AND that different companies products can have VERY different effects. I would stick to one highly respected company and try one at a time. Once I knew which remedies worked for me, THEN I might branch out to see what other companies products do; ALWAYS ONE AT A TIME!!!!!!!!!
Let us know what you learn. I only keep research until I KNOW that it is another valid part of the puzzle. Then I discard it. I learned that "essences" work so long ago that I no longer even have a catagory for them in my voluminous files.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency
Posted by Greg on September 09, 1998 at 23:34:49:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs posted by Walt Stoll on September 09, 1998 at 11:04:30:
All of the essence remedies are based on vibrational healing.
From the point of view of finding which one "works" it would
be far easier to find out what frequency your ailment is at,
finding the correct frequency for the proper functioning of
the organ or system in question, and then applying that
frequency to the affected system.
There is probably a known, published table of correspondences
which list the data sought, perhaps the Arican Society has it,
or you could find it on at Charles Cosimano's website.
Cosimano is the author of Psionics 101 which is as
close to true mindbody science as I've yet seen. It's much
easier reading than MAH,MAS although the irreverant style of
101 puts a lot of people off.
Nevertheless, it is a treasure-trove of information concerning
application of vibration to healing, and very enlightening
as to vibrational theory in general.
Greg
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency
Posted by Walt Stoll on September 10, 1998 at 12:15:49:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency posted by Greg on September 09, 1998 at 23:34:49:
Thanks, Greg.
Radionics IS a valid science. The only problem is that not everyone who tries to learn it CAN. This goes beyond science into personal ego, etc. Those who can do this in an egoless state have the best chance of being effective.
The reason I heavily promote MAH, MAS is that I think people have to understand their internal function as well as they can to be able to best take advantage of all the rest of this stuff-----EVEN if it takes some hard reading. The healthier one gets the easier the reading gets.
Thanks for all you offer us here on the BB.
Walt
Follow Ups:
In That Case, Why Not Radiesthesia
Posted by Thomas Seay on September 13, 1998 at 04:27:00:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency posted by Walt Stoll on September 10, 1998 at 12:15:49:
While we are on the topic of radionics, why not just use the simpler of the methods...radiesthesia?
-Thomas Seay
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency
Posted by Thomas Seay on September 13, 1998 at 04:33:26:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency posted by Greg on September 09, 1998 at 23:34:49:
Greg,
It is my understanding that flower, gem esseces work on the vibrations of the etheric and astral bodies...as such the vibration of a particular organ is not pertinent. Unlike homeopathy, flower essences are self-adjusting...so dosage and relative dilution is not of importance.
I can neither defend or criticize flower essences at this point. I am just beginning to experiment with them. Anything I say at this point would be pure conjecture.
-Thomas
Follow Ups:
Re: In That Case, Why Not Radiesthesia
Posted by Walt Stoll on September 14, 1998 at 09:37:41:
In Reply to: In That Case, Why Not Radiesthesia posted by Thomas Seay on September 13, 1998 at 04:27:00:
Hi, Thomas.
What is the difference? I would like so see subjects like this discussed more often on this BB. Now that they are the answer to ALL conditions for ALL people but that they give people more opportunity to find what IS the path for them to trod.
Namaste` Walt
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency
Posted by Walt Stoll on September 14, 1998 at 09:54:22:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency posted by Thomas Seay on September 13, 1998 at 04:33:26:
Dear Thomas,
The person's total-body "vibrational pattern" is like an incredibly vast symphony orchestra. Each subatomic particle has its own vibration. Each molecule is the sum of the vibratory patterns of all the atoms in that molecule. Each cell is the sum vibratory pattern of all the molecules in that cell, Each tissue it the sum vibratory pattern of all the cells that make it up.
Each organ has a vibratory pattern that is the sum of all the tissues that make up that organ AND the "organism" is the sum total of all of the organs' vibratory patterns.
Even further than that: a family is the sum of all the vibratory patterns of the organisms that make up that family. Then the neighborhood, community, town, city, country, planet, etc. Is it any wonder that researchers in Transcendental Meditation have consistently shown that when a certain % of a neighborhood meditated regularly that the negative statistics for the entire neighborhood improved?
Considering the above I would submit that each organ DOES have a certain "vibration" and that these remedies do something to "tune" the imbalanced pattern back toward normal.
Talk at me.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency
Posted by Thomas Seay on September 14, 1998 at 15:33:24:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency posted by Walt Stoll on September 14, 1998 at 09:54:22:
Walt,
I guess that I was not clear. I agree with everything that you have said here.. My only point was that the flower essence is theoretically is self-adjusting and goes where it is needed via the etheric and astral bodies.
-Thomas
Follow Ups:
Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency
Posted by Walt Stoll on September 15, 1998 at 10:13:37:
In Reply to: Re: Flower Essences, Gem Elixirs, Star Exlixirs and The Frequency posted by Thomas Seay on September 14, 1998 at 15:33:24:
True, Thomas, true.
I was just trying to help others understand what is known about how these things work. We, obviously, are just at the beginning of understanding all this.
How does it know where to go? Perhaps it is just adjusting what needs to be adjusted.
Namaste` Walt