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To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

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To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 07:24:45:

ANN, according to your research, are there effective and safe vaccines? What is it that makes so many (all?) vaccines so bad? Flawed theory, poor manufacturing?



Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:13:11:

In Reply to: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 07:24:45:

we've had a National Vaccine Injury Board for a long time to protect all manufacturers from lawsuits (not just the recent Eli Lilly info). This interferes with the free market and keeps companies from being forced to develop safer vaccines.
Japan rejected our pertussis vaccine, developed their own AND decided not to vaccinate people under 2 for pertussis. Our country's response to this was to approve the japanese vaccine for use on people over 2 and to continue using the dangerous vaccine for 2 month olds (we give the bad pertussis vaccine for ages 2mo-7 years and there's talk of developing one for older kids and adults). Pertussis kills a very few babies- it's not really a dangerous disease to older people or even to toddlers.
The pertussis vaccine MAY be a cause of type 1 diabetes. Japan has the lowest rate for type 1 among industrialized nations, but still higher than it should be for orientals in general- probably what caused them to make their own vaccine. I haven't kept up with what their experience with their vaccine (it's called the acellular pertussis vaccine) has been-you'd need to research that, but also realize these people are type B blood, mostly- what's right for them might not be for you or your future kids.
The theory is messed up-man plays g_d. man tries to control nature, man is an arrogant idiot.
There are too many variables, you can't control them, and shouldn't.
Nature has a purpose. Part of it includes clearing out the weak before they reproduce. Part of it includes getting natural diseases to build our immune systems- even smallpox only killed a third of the people, and, with better nutrition and hygiene, it may well have a smaller death rate today. Go to your state health board site and see the list of exemptions for the smallpox vaccine- the VACCINE causes contagious people!
Why are 30 and 40 year olds getting cancer? Because their immune systems never developed naturally? Because they were meant to die in childhood? Because their diet lacks nutrients- too much refined carb, even too much whole grain carb, not enough protein-omega 3's-salt, eggs-???
All of the above?
I don't know. I believe we are on the verge of extinction as a species and we've done it to ourselves by trying to control nature.
I believe the human body can handle a lot of challenges and that it's when they gang up on you that you lose- just like , if one or two guys jump you, you might fight them off- if 10 jump you, you're in trouble.
Suppose there is an ok vaccine that your body could handle without side effects. Now shoot it into a kid with 4 other vaccines on the same day- a LOT more likely to cause problems. And we can't even track the problems if we were trying to, because we've introduced too many variables at once.
I believe we shouldn't shoot animal parts into human beings (most vaccines have animal parts). I believe we shouldn't shoot thimerisol (mercury) into human beings. I believe we should keep data by every blood type and every other variable we can think of to identify any class of people who need to be treated differently.
Our drug trials are a joke. We reject drugs that help some people, if they don't help enough people- let's find outWHY they help that group of people- what do those people have in common and approve the drugs just for them.
Did our drug trial kill a few people- let's find out what those people had in common and restrict use of the drug for those people. This is going to be very politically incorrect, because people of colour often have type O blood. Japanese and Ashkenazi Jews have type B blood- we will find ourselves treating people differently by race or religion and America isn't ready to do that.
Of course, we'd also need stronger laws restricting doctors. A lot of anti-depressants have been approved for adults. Shrinks give them to kids. Most of the school shooters have been on these drugs- they aren't apropriate for kids. We need to find out why so many of our young people are depressed and fix the problem, not treat the symptoms. Diet and blood type info might help some, but a big cause is selfish adults- there is no one putting most of these kids first. Yes, part of the problem is mommies with careers- and America ain't ready to hear it, much less fix it.



sorry, I left out formaldahyde

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:31:44:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:13:11:

a known carcinogen, in most vaccines.

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Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 08:31:45:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:13:11:

Hi Ann,

Supposedly (don't know how accurate this is because it came from the AMA). The rate of pertussis deaths has drastically decreased since the vaccine was developed. People still get pertussis though. The vaccine isn't 100% effective. I think they now have anti-pertussis medication but I don't know how well it works. Probably doesn't work any better than a placebo. If a disease runs it's course while a person is taking medication, how can you tell if the medication works?

I so agree with you about getting a bunch of vaccines at one time (MMR). That sounds nuts to me.

You should see the immunization records of my boyfriend's children. They have a really weird hepatitis schedule. They are supposed to get this vaccine before entering H.S. (this year for one). Their doctor said they've had enough of it already.



Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 10:03:41:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 08:31:45:

don't know if you've read ay of the boks on vaccines yet. Diseases come in cycles Vaccines took credit for disease reduction when the diseases were simply off-cycle.
Diseases come in different strengths. The flu epidemic of 1918 that resulted in so many deaths was said to be one very strong one. It also happened at the end of WW1-high stress period, was it also a low nutrition period due to resources going to the war? I don't know. One anti-vaccine writer blames the flu vaccine of that time for the deaths. Every year, when the flu articles start, there is mention that there WILL be a pandemic of flu some year, they just don't know when.
AIDS may be the result of the polio vaccine. One anti-vaccine writer claimed that an experiment was done at a hepatitis clinic in NYC in the 70's, using polio vaccine to try to treat hepatitis. The clinic's clientele was reported to be largely homosexual. This would be one reason AIDS was first noticed in homosexuals. In Africa, vaccinating people was considered so important, simple hygiene with regards to sterilizing needles was ignored. In the Myth of Heterosexual AIDS, the author says needles in vaccination rograms were re-used until they broke. The reason this was done in Africa (and haiti? who knows?) was a basic lack of respect for Blacks and a belief that western scientists know what's best for these people. Don't believe they would do that? Read the more recent book, EBOLA, by a doctor in Africa when the Ebola disease broke out- spread by shots of pre-natal vitamins at a Dutch clinic in Africa, run by nuns and supervised by western doctors. Anyone in the US ever suggest you take your pre-natal vitamins in a SHOT?
You need to read these books. They are so much more powerful and have so much more info than the few paragraphs I share with you here.
Read DPT: A Shot in the Dark first edition) or just, A Shot in the Dark (second and subsequent editions).
Read Neil Z Miller's Vaccines :Are they really safe and effective. The first edition of that didn't deal with newer vaccines like smallpox and anthrax, so you want to read the second edition or later. There are at least 20 other books about the problems with vaccines- try to read most of them before there are grandchildren around the house. I read the DPT book from a ibrary.





Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 12:16:41:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 10:03:41:

"The reason this was done in Africa (and haiti? who knows?) was a basic lack of respect for Blacks and a belief that western scientists know what's best for these people. Don't believe they would do that?"

Are you kidding? Of course I believe that. Thank you for the references too. They sound like the kind of books I would be interested in.

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Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 13:35:33:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 08:31:45:

pposedly (don't know how accurate this is because it came from the AMA). The rate of pertussis deaths has drastically decreased since the vaccine was developed.

Lissa, look at the following graph and tell me what you see



Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine?

Posted by lissa [3800.33] on May 31, 2005 at 14:15:09:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 13:35:33:

R.

I hate graphs.

Putting that aside,what this looks like to me is that the mortality rate has decreased to virtually non-existant and the incidence has declined as well.



another thing I notice

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 14:33:24:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by lissa [3800.33] on May 31, 2005 at 14:15:09:

Why did incidence spike so drastically when the vaccine was introduced? It also appears that the mortality rate was declining before the vaccine.



Re: another thing I notice

Posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 15:10:12:

In Reply to: another thing I notice posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 14:33:24:

It also appears that the mortality rate was declining before the vaccine.

Exactly! And you can see similar patterns for other diseases that are said to have been eradicated by vaccination, e.g smallpox and polio. Look at this. It shows that introduction of smallpox vaccine actually increased mortality for some time. Now look at polio rates in US. Do you a spike in early 50's? Well, according to http://www.lifeworkpotential.com/docs/kits/va.html, polio (Salk) vaccine was first introduced in 1952/53 in US. Interesting, huh?

Also, look at United States disease rates for diff. diseases. I am a little color insensitive, so I can't find the line for polio, but by elimination, I can see that the chart doesn't support the vaccination-eradicated-polio claim.



Re: another thing I notice

Posted by
ukchris [1400.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 18:43:12:

In Reply to: Re: another thing I notice posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 15:10:12:

polio is on the bottom

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Re: another thing I notice

Posted by lissa [1263.1967] on May 31, 2005 at 22:03:34:

In Reply to: Re: another thing I notice posted by R. [2151.2032] on May 31, 2005 at 15:10:12:

The polio one looks the same as the other polio link here. My aunt has polio. She got it in the late 40's before the vaccine though. My ex-husband's father also had polio. I'm sure that he also contracted it before the vaccine too.

Still, it does look as if it wasn't that much of a problem before the vaccine and there is a spike at the time of the introduction of the vaccine.

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Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? (Archive.)

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on June 01, 2005 at 07:29:21:

In Reply to: Re: To ANN: any effective and safe vaccine? posted by ANN [1003.516] on May 31, 2005 at 08:13:11:

Right on, Ann!

Walt

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