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Several years ago, when visiting a friend in San Diego CA, I saw a "doctor" helping an old lady (who was my friend's landlady at the time) decide how much supplements she should use. The way he did this seems a bit strange (to me): he stood by the old lady, who was also standing with an arm streched out. Then he tried to push down her arm, and they repeated this act over and over. With each push, he told her either to increase or reduce the ammount of each supplement she was using (he gave precise figures such as "reduce this mineral to 3000 mcg" for instance. I was really amazed by what he was able to do. I chatted with him afterwards, and learned that he wasn't really a doctor.
Earlier this year, I encountered a similar scene near Dallas, except this time the "doctor" was an old lady (in her 60's), doing the pushing to another old lady, telling the latter how much of what supplements she should use. As far as I know, this lady doctor had have no training in medicine (western or eastern)whatsoever. So I almost LOL when I saw them doing the pushing thing.
I wonder has anyone else seen this practice? What is is called? Can this possibly work, or it's simply to fool the gullible? My guessing is the latter, although I admit there are lots of things I DON'T know and therefore try to keep an open-mind.
In Reply to: Health practitioner or charlaton? posted by bing on September 17, 2002 at 22:53:12:
yes, it works from all the testimonials i've seen. (no personal experience though)
In Reply to: Health practitioner or charlaton? posted by bing on September 17, 2002 at 22:53:12:
There are other ways to get an answer too...the acupuncturist (also trained in using Chinese herbal remedies) my cat and I went to used a pendulum. I have gone to two doctors that use muscle testing/kinesiology to get answers to health-related questions and determine if supplements are needed and how much. One is a chiropractor who uses a lot of supplements and homeopathic remedies, the other is an MD who practices environmental medicine, combining conventional and holistic techniques. Interesting stuff.
In Reply to: Health practitioner or charlaton? posted by bing on September 17, 2002 at 22:53:12:
Hi, bing.
Bless your "open mind". Not everyone can do "applied kinesiology" no matter how much training they might have had. See the archives.
It was the accurate application of this technique that finally broke me out of the simplistic allopathic mode, helped MY health so much and set me on the path of holistic medicine.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
In Reply to: Health practitioner or charlaton? posted by bing on September 17, 2002 at 22:53:12:
Thanks, Roy, Nutmeg, and Walt, for your info. I did a search on the internet (which is NOT the best place for true knowledge but IS the easiest; since this is not my profession and I'm lazy sometimes, so internet is the only place I've looked on this matter). Here is what I found:
Basically, the response to a.k. and m.t. is either pro or con. The pros come from schools/institutes teaching this method; the cons come from various sources, questioning the validity of this approach. Some of the critiques are fairly well-written, and therefore sounds pretty convincing with good evidence. But then, I'd also like to give a.k/m.t the benefit of the doubt. To me, it's a bit too early to tell whether a.p./m.t. really works. I mean, Chinese medicine have consistently evolved/developed for several thousand years and we are still discovering new things about it. So for new approaches less than 100 years old, we need more time and repeated success/effectiveness to convince ourselves and others.
This got me thinking about another related issue: how to tell a good practitioner from a chalatan? As Walt said in the thread below, not everyone can do the a.p/m.t, although MANY "doctors" ARE doing it on patients. I myself have witnessed two such occasions, and I KNOW that neither practitioner had been trained in this area. One trick with supplements is, I've noticed, you won't die or even suffer much from a slight increase or descrease of the vitamines/minerals/probiotics etc (except your wallet). So even chalatans won't cause much of a health hazard. Additionally, many patients WANT to trust someone else about their own health/wellness RATHER THAN THEMSELVES. And if these people have the faith, they may well be healed/improved due to the psychological factor, PLUS the wellness advices from the practitioner about the importance of a healthy diet and exercise etc), plus, the body's ability to heal itself.
Then how to tell the good doctor from the bad? If I had to choose a a.k/m.t practioner now, I would first listen carefully to see what kind of life-style advice he gives, such as about whole foods diet, exercise, natural life-style, and stress reduction. If he STRONGLY recommend these issues, it means he tries to teach me/drill into me/beat into me HOW TO CREATE HEALTH FOR MYSELF SO I DON'T NEED TO VISIT A DOCTOR FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE and that is by far the best thing anybody can do about health. But if he insists that I HAVE to take this pill or that supplement WITHOUT saying much about how I can get control of my own health, then he is no doubt a chalatan who just wants to sell his supplements/whatever. Worse yet, he can easily make the gullible DEPENDENT on whatever he is selling to ensure himself a constant supply of dough.
Another possible way to tell a good doctor from a bad one is to look at the doctor and see how healthy s/he is. This may be a bit superficial but may be useful to some degree. A fit, sharp-looking person whose looks remind you nothing but good-health perhaps is a good choice; whereas a doctor who is overweight and sluggish, or who is underweight and rigid, who has problems with concentration, who almost never listens or pay any attention to you, is perhaps not a good choice. To me, any doctor who can't even take care of their own health is not qualified to cure other people.
So that's what I learned from this topic and what I though about it. Comments and corrections are very welcome!
In Reply to: A report on what I 've learned about applied kinesiology and muscle testing... posted by bing on September 18, 2002 at 14:03:38:
Thanks, bing.
Good points ALL.
In my experience about 25% of AK practitioners are very good at it.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: A report on what I 've learned about applied kinesiology. (Archive in AK.) posted by Walt Stoll on September 19, 2002 at 08:01:19:
Doc, I'm a bit surprised that only one in four AK practitioners are very good at what they are doing. So the other three are just...OH well.
From another perspective, however, one in four sounds pretty promising: that's way better than the allopathic doctors who prescribe antibiotic for just about every health problem... I mean, at least the Ak practitioners aren't prescribing anything that may harm the body.
In Reply to: Health practitioner or charlaton? posted by bing on September 17, 2002 at 22:53:12:
did you mean that he pushed once and said,
take more magnesium and pushed again and
said, cut the potassium ? .... sounds fishy
to me. Did he push a different way or is
the sequence important and how does fatigue
of either party affect the results ?
The only way to prove such a thing would be
to find out wether you or the person felt
better after the change in doseages. Don't
forget the placebo effect.
VF
In Reply to: Re: A report on what I 've learned about applied kinesiology. (Archive in AK.) posted by bing on September 19, 2002 at 11:17:56:
Thanks, bing.
You got THAT right.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Health practitioner or charlaton? posted by Vince F on September 20, 2002 at 04:12:59:
Yes, Vince. He pushed her arm down and said something like "reduce this mineral to 350 mg;" then push again (the same arm) and said "increase this vitamine to 400" and so on.
With the woman "doctor," she pushed her client's arm and told her (the client) that she MUST take the supplement which she (the doctor) was selling at the time. Go figure!
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