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Has anyone done or seen done any form of muscle testing where the one performing it was able to get consistent results in a blind test? Like testing with a few identical bottles and neither the tester or the testee knowing which substance was in which bottle. Ive had muscle testing done to me several times and I highly suspect it was not legit. If I was performing this for patients I would ALWAYS do a blind test for new patients to show them my ability is real. Why would practitioners not do it? It would only take under 5 minutes to do. My guess is most all or all of them would fail. If anyone is paying someone for health advice using this method I would definitly advise asking to see some proof of ability. If I ever did it again I know I would. Why should people be expected to blindly believe them when proving ability is so easy?
In Reply to: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 20, 2003 at 17:48:11:
I agree with you, Well. I think what we all need is some frankness in our attempts at healing. I don't know about you but I feel sometimes like a dog chasing its tail. I have so many different diseases, ailments that I'm bound to have some contraindications in all the supplements that I am taking. I would love to find an herbalist that I can trust with an open and honest policy set in place. I'm tired of being fooled.
In Reply to: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 20, 2003 at 17:48:11:
are you talking about applied kinesology? sounds like it. I went to a nutrtionist 3 weeks ago and he did this to me. but get this, my arms are very weak from spoine surgery, so, he had an asst put her hand on me then he tested her arms to see what supps would be good for me. Common sense tells me this is a load of BS, but I dont know the science behind it and would keep an open mind til I do. still wanted to say "do I look that stupid?" The good thing is the supps he reccommend were all very high quality things so i am using them. I think these people really believe they are right though. This guy has my cdsa results so i'll be seeing him 1 more time real soon. seems quackey to me, wish i cud find a normal nutrtionist.
In Reply to: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 20, 2003 at 17:48:11:
I have never known "muscle testing" to be all that accurate. Perhaps it has some good points but like all "tests", there are always drawbacks. I still feel that the best method of determining if something is good for you is by how you feel when taking it.
-HY
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Helping You on June 21, 2003 at 00:25:37:
I agree. I found muscle testing to be a waste of time.
In Reply to: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 20, 2003 at 17:48:11:
I am sure this is related to use of pendulums, dowsing rods, etc. This requires skills. My mother has been able to diagnose diseases very well in people she didn't know.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 02:17:46:
Yes I was meaning all sorts of muscle testing. Though im sure most are more familiar with Applied Kinesiology. What method did your mother use to make the diagnoses?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 02:46:10:
She used a pendulum.
I've tried using it to guess lottery numbers but could never guess more than two. :(
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 02:51:39:
Call me, when you get them all right! lol
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Maria on June 21, 2003 at 02:52:36:
OK, but after I let Eliza know that.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Helping You on June 21, 2003 at 00:25:37:
I noticed that whenever I used Visine allergy drops my eyes seemed even more itchy and irritated than before. My friend suggested trying muscle testing with the visine bottle and when we did it, my arm really tested weak! I must be allergic to something in it - I certainly react that way and it was backed up by muscle testing. We have done extensive muscle testing with a chiropractor for my children for food and environmental substances and it was always accurate, so I am a believer.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 02:59:14:
I was considering getting a pendulum and book on amazon that was under 20 bucks. I kept reading around and the majority of sites I read where dowsers were tested they had failed miserably to produce accuracy. Your mention of the lottery brings up an interesting point. How come all the "real" dowsers arent winning the lottery? Or doing countless other things that would give their practice instant respect and them incredible wealth.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Reader on June 21, 2003 at 09:48:06:
You already suspected the visine was bad for you and so did your friend. I think its entirely probable you just resisted a tiny bit less and he may have pushed just a tiny bit harder. When you are pushing down on someones outstretched arm it only takes a small amount more pressure to make a large difference.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 09:53:23:
Or doing countless other things that would give their practice instant respect and them incredible wealth.
First of all, how do you know they don't? Secondly, maybe they don't look for instant respect and incredible wealth. Have you thought of that? Maybe already have what they really need.
I would like to win $40 million, but at the same time, I am afraid it would corrupt me. Having that much money, especially, if you didn't have to work a lot to get it, can change a person in profound ways. So, I don't know if winning that much serves my goal for being here (provided that we have such goals, of course).
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 09:58:01:
No - I was really trying my hardest but if you've had muscle testing done, you'd realize how it has nothing to do with strength. A child can test you and if you are sensitive to something, there's no way you can keep your arm up and keep from testing weak.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Reader on June 21, 2003 at 14:31:03:
If you want to know the truth, bring 2 vials to your chiropractor. One with water (or saline) and one with visine. Have a 3rd person prepare the vials so that neither you nor the chiropractor know which is the visine and which is the fake. Then do a series of muscle testing. Test randomly at least a dozen times or more. You will find that you test weak to both the visine and the water at times. It's not an exact science and this is the only way to prove it to you.
-HY
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Helping You on June 21, 2003 at 17:42:52:
Very few people that believe in this would be willing to do this test. Because it would force them to see the truth that I would guess they believe deep down inside anyway and are desperate to avoid it. It feels great to believe you have some magical way to know exactly what your body wants and how much of it without even using it.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 13:56:42:
First, maybe some of them have respect and wealth. But I would guess its not from being legit. Plenty of gullible people to go around. Nobody is rushing to prove this power. And its been around a LONG time. By this time SOMEONE would have done clinical studies on it proving it. I cant say for sure there are none out there but Ive been studying it for awhile now and have found nothing. This would be big news. second, wouldnt you want to have some credibility to your craft besides how someone "feels"? I could sell someone magical water having done nothing to it and plenty would feel just great from it! And about the lottery. While you may have noble ideas about it there would be PLENTY of greedy people that wouldnt. The big lotteries wouldnt get past the first round if dowsing was legit. and there would always be multiple winners.
In Reply to: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 20, 2003 at 17:48:11:
My thoughts on muscle testing are this: I believe it to an extent - maybe. But the only person who did this to me, who I do respect and trust, did it with the bottles of the supplements. So, in my mind, my body is just saying, "no I don't want this processes plastic" or "no I don't want glass" - right? Even if it is a "pill" isn't it more the coating of the pill that is being "tested"?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Michele on June 21, 2003 at 18:47:35:
Your body is supposed to know what it is you want tested. It should bypass the bottle
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 02:59:14:
OK, but after I let Eliza know that.
I am hurt, R. :)
But, I truly think that using your "powers" to attain money WOULD corrupt you. The most powerful psychics, clairvoyants, such as Edgar Cayce, never used their gifts for materialistic gain. Its the quickest way to lose your abilities.
I think if you dont have attachment to money, it can more easily flow into your life. This has always been my experience. I have always been this way; never had attachment to money (dont talk about my clothes tho, you should see my wardrobe, its pushing maximum density! :)
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Maria on June 21, 2003 at 20:29:26:
"Its the quickest way to lose your abilities."
How do you know this exactly?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 20:32:25:
I have read widely of Edgar Cayce's books, and also of other clairvoyants books such as Doris Stokes, Nostradamus, Dylis Gator, and they all mention to this fact, that if your gifts are used to attain material wealth, your gifts will lessen. Such as those clairvoyants who charge their clients astronomical prices. They are using their gifts to attain wealth, not to help others, which is the main reason for these gifts. The intention is most important.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 09:58:01:
I've tried this method with an unsuspecting coworker, and it worked very well. He tested very weak when I asked him to lie about his name. Everytime he said "My name is x", where x was the name of our boss, he could not resist my pressure at all. When he was saying the truth, his arm felt much stronger.
I told him the meaning of the test afterwards.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Maria on June 21, 2003 at 20:29:26:
While I have nothing to lose, would you fork over some money, please?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 22:22:46:
What do you need it for now, R~??? What do I look like, your bank manager??!
You know I cant resist you! :)
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 18:18:06:
Well, you can be certain that if I could that, I would keep it to myself. I would not try to have it proved. In fact, I would talk more like you because I would like less people to be able to do that.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 18:11:12:
I agree with you. I have had extensive experience with muscle testing and know very well the limited application that it has. Very few practitioners will even OFFER to do this kind of test. Deep down, I think they know why.
-HY
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Maria on June 21, 2003 at 22:25:48:
No, my bank manager is sure attached to money. I just thought I'd try to take advantage of some unattached money you might have available. I also wanted to take some of your burden -- I didn't want you to buy any more unneeded cloths. You must believe me that I had only benevolent intentions.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 22:19:58:
Some references:
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? (For R.) posted by Gregory on June 21, 2003 at 22:36:18:
references are missing
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 22:33:15:
See, I knew it. You always had honorable intentions, R. And you are doing such a great community service by alleviating my need to compulsively buy more and more clothes. I feel certain that my wardrobe will collapse in a heap any moment from the sheer weight of clothes bearing down it. But I WILL look good at any cost. How much money do you make again, R? Cant remember. :)
I am a pack rat. I knew only a god like you could save me.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? (For R.) posted by Gregory on June 21, 2003 at 22:36:18:
Sorry. Browser error.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 20:32:25:
Btw, Wellbeing, I have no problem with clairvoyants or other gifted people using their gifts to make a living, its only when they start to get greedy, THAT is what I have a problem with it.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Maria on June 21, 2003 at 20:37:33:
Well then I think they will all be losing their powers soon. Those greedy psychics. Think of all the money they could win and diamonds they could find and use that money to help the less fortunate. but noooo they choose to squander their power doing parlor tricks for pennies. Tsk tsk naughty psychics maybe thats what all those psychic hotlines were intending to do before they become corrupted and went bankrupt
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 22:28:10:
SHHHHH youre revealing my plan!
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 21, 2003 at 22:19:58:
you do muscle testing!? Wonderful. How about you do the blind test then and tell us how it works out? I really would love to be proved wrong about this. I want it to be real.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 23:19:52:
Got that right, mate! :)
I do have to say I have always thought those 1900 numbers with the tacky fortune tellers have always been, at best, suspect. Needless to say, NO, I have never been gullible to use their services, nor would I, except for a laugh maybe, and certainly not at the exhorbitant rates they charge.
P.S. I dont think those hotline psychics have powers, just great con abilities for the vulnerable, IMHO.
As for the daily astrological forecasts in the newspapers, PLEASE, give me a break?! :)
They should be banned, just like the phone company that banned adult calls going out to remote destinations. Customers were being conned big time, and paying outrageous rates for these calls unawares. Heh. thats what you get. You play, you pay, baby! lol
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Maria on June 21, 2003 at 23:26:33:
Daily astrological forecasts should be banned?! You need to find a source of them that agrees with you, and you will change your mind.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 21, 2003 at 23:25:27:
I've done what I wanted and told you about it. Now, how about YOU do it?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 22, 2003 at 01:59:27:
Actually I HAVE done it. I ordered a book on it awhile ago. Tried it with zero success. Maybe Im just no good. You said you had success with it though. So why not try this one little test where neither you nor the testee would be under any sort of influence and then you would know once and for all the truth and we would possibly have a great testimony about muscle testing. Surely since you have interest in muscle testing you would also have interest in this short and easy test.....Please R.....the truth is right around the corner....just a few more steps....
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 22, 2003 at 02:40:52:
I am not sure there's a sure way to verify in to eliminate all doubts. First of all, I need to use a universally healthful substance and universally harmful substance for the test. And, then there's an energy reversal factor (see http://www.mineralconnection.com/muscltst.htm). All this makes interpretation of results difficult. Can you suggest a test procedure that you solves these issues?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 22, 2003 at 03:05:17:
Sugar is always referred to as something that should make everyone go weak. Magnesium would probably be a positive. But you would be able to test these before hand and find a negative and positive substance. In fact it would be an important part. Getting results while you know exactly what it is so you know everything is testing properly and there is no reversal. Now for the blind test. It would be ideal to have a third person to handle putting the substances into the containers. You wouldnt even need identicle containers for the substances because neither you nor the testee would have any way of knowing what was in them. If you just have 2 people you would need identicle containers. One would fill them and the other would mix around the containers positions. Neither one could witness the other doing either of those things. If you didnt have bottles I suppose you could wrap them up in napkins as long as the end results looked the same. I think this would be a decent test.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Michele on June 21, 2003 at 18:47:35:
Michele,
Applied Kinesoilogy is a valid concept. It's only weakness is that not everyone trained in its use can do it--even though nearly all of them THINK they can.
Mechanical devices are being developed to cut out the person who thinks she can do it but cannot do it accurately. However, they are still pretty insensitive compared with a talented human who CAN do it accurately.
An inexpensive one is the strength dynamometer in the sporting goods store. It is very accurate but will miss all but the grossest problems. See the applied kinesiology archives.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? (Archive in AK.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 22, 2003 at 05:58:52:
Dr Stoll,
Thanks for the info. Ill definitly keep an eye out for these new devices being developed. I would definitly like to put one to the test. Once they are fine tuned enough to be comparable to a skilled human wouldnt it eliminate the need for any other type of method for making a diagnosis?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Helping You on June 21, 2003 at 22:30:34:
Dr. Stoll, I thought that you said that muscle testing was very accurate - do you think so?
Our chiropractor has tested us with several different vials without telling us what they are and even though we don't know what's in the vials, we always test weak to the same ones. This can't be a coincidence!
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll: Muscle Testing posted by Reader on June 22, 2003 at 10:08:10:
Oops, sorry I didn't see your response in a different thread below. I see you do see muscle testing as a valid way of testing sensitivities and I certainly have found this to be true too.
By the way, what is happening with these multiple threads? Why aren't all the responses in the same one?
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by Wellbeing on June 22, 2003 at 04:21:14:
What if someone were being having low blood sugar at the moment of testing, and make him or her test positive for sugar. And if the person weren't deficient in Mg, taking Mg might result in negative result too. I am speculating, of course, but I think there's no way to know in advance. Maybe Mg would test positive at one time and negative at another.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll: Muscle Testing posted by Reader on June 22, 2003 at 10:08:10:
This can't be a coincidence!
It could because your chiropractor knew what he was testing you for and could affect the results.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? (Archive in AK.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 22, 2003 at 05:58:52:
Aghhh I see...I'll research and learn more - but I still feel very uncomfortable with this. FOr instance, I have a well meaning friend who uses this - and maybe, the body does need the supplements, but in my case (she said I needed a colon cleanse for a spider bite) I felt that, and did do - the meat tenderizer on the site of the bite - NOT the colon cleanse - and it cleared up right away. This is not to say that I perhaps do not need the first, but the subject of focus was the spider bite.
Does anyone know how much training one needs to do this? (test someone else)
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 22, 2003 at 12:54:07:
as long as the results were consistent it wouldnt matter. Consistency is the key. You dont have to use sugar and magnesium those were just examples. whatever you use I wouldnt think the need for these things would change from a legit positive to negative within minutes.
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? (Archive in AK.) posted by Michele on June 22, 2003 at 16:57:30:
Much depends on what question is asked. Maybe colon cleanse was going to be beneficial to you (as well as brain tissue suppository), but something else was going to be more useful for the spider bite. Water would probably test positive too because water is practically always is a good thing. See, these kinds of tests give yes/no answers. If your friend had asked if meat tenderizer on the site of the bite would be good, the answer might have been "yes" too.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll: Muscle Testing posted by R. on June 22, 2003 at 12:56:29:
R. is right. Him bringing out vials that HE filled is useless. If there is a slightest bit difference in the vials or if their position didnt change after he filled them his subconscious would be well aware of what was in which. Try bringing a couple vials or bottles of your own next time and see how accurate he is.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll: Muscle Testing posted by Wellbeing on June 22, 2003 at 17:31:14:
Another factor which supposedly complicates things in muscle testing is that the TESTER himself may be a poor vehicle for receiving/transmitting the energy of the substance being tested. (even if it does work in theory and the subject's muscles would respond)
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? posted by R. on June 22, 2003 at 01:57:40:
No, little rabbit. I meant they should ban those 1900 fortune telling numbers, that rip people off.
Actually, now that you mention banning those daily astrological forecasts, is really not a good idea. I guess it keeps someone in a job. All those ignormaus' out there that actually take it to be the gospel truth and believe it. Many people are in jobs today, to support the stupidity of the public. I know! lol
In Reply to: Re: Muscle Testing - Real? (Archive in AK.) posted by Wellbeing on June 22, 2003 at 06:37:54:
Hi, Wellbeing.
The same thing was said about the stethescope when it was invented; about the ophthalmoscope, etc.
One at least has to know how to ask the correct questions so read up on the procedure.
Iridology was once thought to provide all the answers.
I find that they all contribute their bit to the mix and it is the judgement of the individual that cput it all together.
Hope this helps.
Walt
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