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Hi Doc,
Sorry for posting many times. One Q aboyt the kness.
What supplements do u recommend for arithis, and knees which has lost its gel? Do I take the MCHC or with glucosamine or MSM?
Thnx again.
In Reply to: Knees posted by Desmond [118.10] on July 14, 2004 at 07:41:11:
don't know what MCHC is and what Gel did your knees loose. Synovial fluid ?
Cod liver oil could help with the fluid amd I also had luck with Nature's Bounty Glucosamine/chondroitin and Natrol MSM.
In Reply to: Re: Knees posted by Vince F [173.9] on July 14, 2004 at 08:34:24:
Microcrystaline hydroxyappatite, it's a great calcium supplement. Not likely to be a major factor in the joint fluid but great to take for support none the less.
If it were me I would take all those things mentioned and cetainly add the fish oil.
In Reply to: Knees posted by Desmond [118.10] on July 14, 2004 at 07:41:11:
Hi Desmond,
I used tobe a runner and had some pretty bad problems with one of my knees but since I have been taking MSM, glucosamine, calcium and flax oil,my knee is a lot better and hardly bothers me and I take the inexpansive brands from Trader Joe's. I guess they work.
In Reply to: Re: Knees posted by WOW [1317.457] on July 14, 2004 at 11:35:47:
do you still run ?
I tried to run the other day because of pouring rain and it was like my legs were lead. Haven't run in Years because of all the other problems and wondered how my knees would hold up if I could with the 2 problems I have had? They are No problem now but wonder if there is damage or the problems were minor since they were cured fast with the suppliments. Might be I was low on lube and some other minor problem.
I used to play tennis hard and wasn't satified till I had all the leg and wind I needed after laying off in the winters. It would take me 3 weeks to get up to speed by pushing each time till my lungs burned and legs were weak. May have been too hard on both but I was eager to get where I wanted to be and couldn't wait. I started runing sprints to warm up faster which worked really good.
In Reply to: Knees posted by Desmond [118.10] on July 14, 2004 at 07:41:11:
Desmond,
Supplements are but a small part of knee prevention and care and are mostly useful during the "end game".
The most important thing, once the person's attention is called to the knee by pain, is cessation of weight bearing exercise (beginning serious swimming), chiropractic, flexibility exercises and weight loss.
The weight loss is the best early preventive (before symptoms) I know of.
During the end game glucosamine sulphate is the only universally beneficial supplement I know of; the rest need to be matched to the individual by trial and error.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 15, 2004 at 07:15:49:
I have been taking Glucosamine 2 times a day for like 14 months now. Everything is same in knee. I have NOT worked out legs with weight for like 5 months as well. Still no improvement.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 15, 2004 at 12:00:21:
Try adding Naurol MSM. Nature's Bounty is the brand of Glucosamine Chondroitin I used. Cod liver oil may also help.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 15, 2004 at 12:00:21:
Thanks, Steven.
How is your swimming program going? You know, walking stairs is serious weight bearing exercise (up or down). Just walking is a problem at this stage. How are you doing with your SR?
Listen to Vince F.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 15, 2004 at 12:00:21:
That was Natrol brand MSM. I have 7 brands and that is the only one that helped my knee. Maybe others would have worked in time but I doubt it and this one in combo started to work in an hr for my problem.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 16, 2004 at 07:19:21:
My SR? You forget that I had to stop doing them because they brought on the panic attacks?
I don't walk up stairs, unless you count the one step from the street to sidewalk and that would be a bit nuts to avoid that.
Also a reminder that there is no pool near me.
I thought glucosamine was the only one, in your opinion, for this?
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 16, 2004 at 07:19:21:
My SR? You forget that I had to stop doing them because they brought on the panic attacks?
I don't walk up stairs, unless you count the one step from the street to sidewalk and that would be a bit nuts to avoid that.
Also a reminder that there is no pool near me.
I thought glucosamine was the only one, in your opinion, for this?
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 16, 2004 at 08:20:45:
Yes, but, Steven.
Glucosamine is the only known long term preventive of cartilege deterioration. MSM, vitmin C & omega 3s are other things whose mechanism of action are as yet totally unknown.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 16, 2004 at 08:20:45:
Yes, but, Steven.
Glucosamine is the only known long term preventive of cartilege deterioration. MSM, vitmin C & omega 3s are other things whose mechanism of action are as yet totally unknown.
You forgot to mention why flexibility exercises, Feldenkrais, or Alexander technique are also impossible for you.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 17, 2004 at 07:52:51:
Walt, could there be any peoblem with taking Chondroitin with the glucosamine? Seems like there wouldn't be unless one could block the other. I remember being concerned about the amounts of each when I first bought it since it was expensive and I wasn't convinced it would help my problem, since the cod that had worked so well with another problem, didn't do a thing, and wether one brand could be better, with questions about wether cheap brands even contain what they claim.
Vit C seems like it could help the cartilige stay stable and not disintigrate since C helps other tissues and the O-3's might lube or help with synovial fluid, maybe replenishing or increasing the SAE weight.) Maybe there should be different weights for the winter and summer or age of the vehicle.))
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 17, 2004 at 07:50:53:
Like I said, I have been taking Gloucosamne 2 times a day for over a year.
I take Vitamin C and also eat a handful of walnuts every day.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 17, 2004 at 07:52:51:
Why is it there is always something? lol
If I take the glucosamine, it's not enough. I stay of leg exercises and it's not enough.
I have looked up these techniques but seems they all cost money.
Not to mention finding time for all of these.
If I followed all of these things (SR, swimming, feldenkrais, exercise) I wouldn't have time to do anything lol.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 17, 2004 at 11:44:54:
I don't know about brands of Glucosamine since I only needed Nature's Bounty but the MSM's were All different. One Only cured my sinuses, another only a muscle problem and the Natrol with the G/C fixed my knees.
I don't stay with something very long if they don't do what I am looking for unless I am really despirate but still keep looking. After 2 weeks of the glucosamine not helping i heard about MSM and bought it but it took another week to get the right one.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Steven [280.62] on July 17, 2004 at 11:48:46:
if you find the Right cure, it is fast and cheap.
All I needed for my first knee problem was deep knee bends. Then cod liver oil when they stoped working.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Vince F [173.9] on July 17, 2004 at 08:17:08:
Hi, Vince.
I am not convinced that the chondroitin does anything but empty one's pocketbook---UNLESS that individual is allergic to it and then it can be dangerous.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Steven [280.62] on July 17, 2004 at 11:44:54:
Steven,
Since knees tend to gradually get worse over the years, just the fact that they have stayed the same may be due to the glucosamine benefits.
In my opinion, if glucosamine is the only thing you do you are only putting off the day when you will need a knee replacement. Also, in my opinion, anyone who puts all their eggs in one basket for knees (uses only one treatment) is kidding themselves.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Steven [280.62] on July 17, 2004 at 11:48:46:
Steven,
It all depends upon how much pain you are having and how long you can take it till you are finally forced to do some
of these things. Of course, the longer you wait the more damage there will be to the joint surfaces until finally it will be irreversible.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 18, 2004 at 08:27:49:
Like I said, I haven't worked out legs with weights for many months too. I take glucosamine 2 times a day. Walnuts every day. Go to chiro for ART treatment as well.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 18, 2004 at 08:31:01:
Stretching every day. Doing no high impact cardio, NO leg weight training at all, taking glucosamine every day, eating walnuts every day and getting ART treatments as well as strengthening exercises from teh chiro where he has me do this kneel thing EVERY day.
If that sounds like I'm doing nothing, I don't know what else to say lol.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Steven [280.62] on July 18, 2004 at 14:56:27:
Steven,
Who said you were doing nothing?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 18, 2004 at 15:37:22:
I guess that is what I took from what you were saying when you said "It all depends upon how much pain you are having and how long you can take it till you are finally forced to do some of these things."
Made me feel as if you were implying that I wasn't doing much which I have shown I am. My knee problems still and always will stem from the arch in my feet being high. It has led to SEVERE ankle instability, which leads to shin pain and then knee pain.
I am looking into getting prolotherapy on my ankles and shoulders, if it can be done. I'm in the research stage of that as of now. Is this something you know has worked?
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Steven [280.62] on July 18, 2004 at 20:11:43:
Thanks, Steven.
I have no experience with prolotherapy other than what has ben presented on this board.
I am ont suggesting that you are not doing more than average for your knees; only that, if you have not the results you want, you can still be doing more. Only trial and error will tell you what your particular combination of things will be most effective and NOTHING may be enough to prevent progression.
Never stop learning and experimenting.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Steven [280.62] on July 17, 2004 at 11:48:46:
start with the cheapest things and work up. I am not one to wait very long for something to help and keep looking if something doesn't fairly fast. Results are what motivate me. Can't say if something will finally work after 6 mo but when something has, it usually is noticable from the start which encourages me to stay with it but incredably, that hasn't been long. Maybe I have been lucky that I knew or ran into people with answers to some things.
Since you mentioned the foot/ankle situation, I wonder if a thigh problem that affects the knees could be yours or part of it. It is only supposed to hurt when walking Down stairs though. It is an imbalance between the quads and hamstrings and leg lifting exercizes are supposed to help. That was my main activity that gave me pain and I tried them and got some relief at first. Maybe like the deep knee bends that helped me, It moved or strengthened things for a while but not completely.
In Reply to: Re: Knees (Archive.) Different things for different stages. Yes, but... posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 19, 2004 at 05:33:48:
I'm trying. Believe me.
I am also trying NOT to get wrapped up on in doing a zillion things for various ailments to the point where it's all I do. It is very difficult to plan around all of these things which have to happen every day.
Like I said, I"m still in the research stage of prolotherapy. Of course, as the case with any physician, they are always sure it WILL work but I am not listening this time and will keep researching.
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