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As everyday is yet another day in my quest to heal my knees, I thought I would post this for anyone interested.
I recently visited a D.O. who does prolotherapy to have him check out the ligament integrity in both of my knees. He actually said the ligaments in both of my knees were lax--odd because I have never injured my knees directly. However, for whatever enigmatic reason, he did not offer to administer the dextrose injections to "tighten up" the weak structures; rather, he suggested I strengthen my quads and hamstrings in order to stabalize patellar tracking. He said that a tighter the muscle surrounding a joint is, the healthier the joint will be. Moreover, he claimed that if I could theoretically walk around with all of the muscles of my leg flexed the joint would be perfectly stabalized. Sounds to me that according to him, bracing should HELP a joint! Further, muscle strengthening as an answer to tracking problems is the same one M.D.'s have been giving out for years, and it NEVER seems to work!
What I found really perplexing (and almost offensive) was his insitance that I stop any and all chiropractic manipulations! He claimed that chiropractice adjustments will weaken the ligaments of the adjusted bones and thus only cause joints to be looser and worse in the long run.
I am really confused about what to do now. Should I look for another prolotherapist, even though the next nearest one is hours away?
Thanks to anyone who can help,
Jeff C.
In Reply to: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Jeff C. on March 03, 2002 at 19:19:38:
Hi, Jeff C.
Your D.O. is giving you good advice. Everything in your note is right EXCEPT about the bracing. Carefully read the glossary and the archives about bracing till you understand what it really is. It has nothing to DO with what your D.O. told you.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Walt Stoll on March 04, 2002 at 08:25:42:
Thanks, Dr. Stoll.
But isn't it his job to rebuild lax ligmanets? That's what confuses me.
Moreover, are you agreeing with him that chiropractics will only destabalize joints?! I seriously doubt people like Dr. Kim are doing more harm than good!
I don't fully understand.
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Jeff C. on March 04, 2002 at 12:21:29:
If one gets OVER ADJUSTED, it can and usually does cause ligament laxity in the spine. I know of at least 3 D.O's that perform prolo that all say the same thing. 1/2 of their patient load comes from over-adusted people.
Strengthening the muscles surrounding the joint DOES make the joint more stable. BUT, ligaments are not muscles and muscles are not ligaments. SO, if the ligaments ARE lax, strengthening the muscles WILL NOT compensate for that. He SHOULD peform prolotherapy on your knees in addition to the exercises you would be performing. All in all, your D.O, as Walt said, is on the right track. But personally, having had prolotherapy myself, understand the premise and how it can help people in your position. Dr. Atkins now has a D.O that performs prolotherapy at his clinic. He, as many know, is way ahead of many doctors in his understanding about the causes of disease and how diet/stres and other factors play a role. Prolotherapy has also been subjected to double-blind placebo controled studies and published in prestigius journals such as the Lancelet and The New England Journal of Medicine. It is a proven safe method for rebuilding ligaments and tendons. Just thought I'd add that piece of info as most people do not know that prolotherapy has a substantial testing history, and IMPECIBLE safety record. Take Care.
-HY
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Jeff C. on March 04, 2002 at 12:21:29:
Thanks, Jeff C.
You are right. I misspoke. I do not believe that properly done chiropractic damages ligaments. Otherwise I stand by my note.
There is more than enough honest disagreement about all this to go around. That generally means that NO ONE has all of the answers and the approach has to be individualized---something the medical profession is definitely not yet good at.
Many people are born with lax ligaments which eventually (depending on how lax they are) will cause problems for that individual.
I guess, at this point, that you will just have to go with what works. The name of the game will be to not do what can cause harm until a last resort.
Let us know what you learn. We will all learn with you.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Helping You on March 05, 2002 at 01:02:15:
Thanks, Helping You
So would you then suggest I find another prolotherapist who will offer the injections? If it really effects a great difference I'd be willing to do it.
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Jeff C. on March 05, 2002 at 09:18:00:
YES! Stablizing the ligaments will allow you to do the muscle work necessary to protect the joint further. It's a little difficult to work the muscles when the ligaments constantly allow the joint to slip. The only possibility then is FURTHER INJURY. Get the prolo.
-HY
In Reply to: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Jeff C. on March 03, 2002 at 19:19:38:
I started Prolotherapy for my back recently. I've had 2 appointments now. I had almost immediate improvement. I "threw my back out" about 5 months ago. I was taking anti-inflammatories for 4 months. Three times I tried to stop taking them, thinking I was better but all three times I had to go back to taking them (Orudis).
My D.O. 's office told me I had to stop taking the Orudis 2 days before my first appointment. The purpose of Prolotherapy is to induce an inflammatory process in the area being injected in order to start the healing process.
Taking an anti-inflammatory medicine is counter productive.
It's been 3 weeks since my first treatment. I've had 2 treatments so far. I am off the anti-inflamatory medication, I have practically no pain, the leg weakness that I've been having for several months is much better. I'm very happy with the treatment. And this is only after the 2nd treatment. My doctor suggests that I have 10 treatments.
BTW, I have a history of a herniated disk, other buldging disks, and several events of "sprained lower back".
Thanks to Helping You for discussing Prolotherapy on this BB. It sure is helping me!
Jeff, I'd be interested in knowing what area your D.O. is located in. Sounds like you might need to find another one.
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Mary on March 05, 2002 at 12:49:04:
No Message Inside
In Reply to: Re: Dissapointing Result With Prolotherapy Doc--Dr. Kim, You May Be Interested posted by Mary on March 05, 2002 at 12:49:04:
I am wondering how many shots you get in a treatment and
if you know if they use sugar or salt ?? The former
surgeon who treated my mother and a few friend used to
give as mant shots as the person could tolerate except my
mom whose back was so bad that she couldn't get on the table
so he put her in the hospital and knocked her out and gave
her his full treatment of 16 shots at the time and in 2
days she was discharged and never had back trouble again.
I believe he used dextrose.
VF
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