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frustrated

Posted by
ray on May 14, 2002 at 16:18:38:

Forgive me for what I'm about to say, BUT:

I have been monitoring this BB for months now. I have been suffering from digestive disorders for almost 10 years now. Dealing with the sypmtoms of this illness is devastating. Equally devastating is not only the utter indifference of the medical establishment, but also the sheer number of alternative oppurtunists doling out unqualified advice while selling snake oil, either in the form of books or supplements. Its with great displeasure that I make these comments, as a medical student and as a human that has an inherent trust for others. I'm not necesarrily lumping dr stoll in with the others, if anything, he seems among the most sincere of many. Nevertheless, its a daunting task wading through the VAST amounts of information and theories that exist and getting past all the circle-talk. No one can possibly understand how much illness can impact ones life better than the ill. We live one day at a time, afraid to plan tomorrow, not knowing how we may feel IF we fall asleep at all. I greatly appreciate all your thoughts and ideas, but i seriously doubt that the onset of my digestive disorder at the age of 22 was due to a lack of SR. I do agree with the correlation of LGS and parasites... but where does an average person go to find help and at what cost? This has been a long journey for me, as well as many others. I have learned possibly more than I ever wanted to about myself as well as alternative medicine and illness. Where is this all heading? Honestly, I'm not sure. I spent hours today reading the web site on d. fragilis (http://bara.idx.com.au/dfragilis/my_story.htm). I felt finally I may have found SOMETHING. The story sounded so disturbingly familiar. I decided to cross reference it with this BB only to be shot down yet once again adding to my ever mounting sense of frustration. Just a thought. For any comments, please feel free to contact me directly. Thanks for letting me vent.

sincerely,
ray.



Re: frustrated

Posted by Donna E. on May 14, 2002 at 16:49:21:

In Reply to: frustrated posted by ray on May 14, 2002 at 16:18:38:

I too have been sick. Sick since I can remember. Either the doctors never had a solution or my mom never followed up. In adulthood I have just been called a hypochondriac and again, the doctors have no solution. They want to pump me full of antibiotics or chemicals and operate on me all of the time. I finally got "sick" of it enough to listen to doctor Stoll - that was just in December when I underwent a laparoscopy and laser for endometriosis. When they wanted to put me on a drug that shuts down your ovaries and has been proven to be very damaging to your system, I finally woke up - Thank God.

If you agree with LGS and parasites, then you logically you should agree with the CAUSE of these conditions. Disease does not happen to a whole and healthy person. One can be exposed to the same bugs as you, but you will get the disease symptoms because the bugs can get into your weakened system, while in the whole and healthy person they will do nothing.

From what I understand, and I will be corrected by Dr. Stoll if I am wrong, LGS is caused from bracing, which carries the blood away from the intestines making it permeable and susceptible. Bracing is caused from the stress response, which can only be relieved through skilled relaxation of some kind. Dr. Stoll outlines this condition on the website and gives references to many books and studies done on this subject - it's a proven medical fact. I was given an entire protocol to follow to relieve this situation in myself. I bought his book in 1998, but I am just starting it myself.

As R. says in many other posts, chasing the bugs is a waste of time to SOLVE the underlying problem. You may or may not choose to believe this and may go on trying to chase some foreign thing in your body as the CAUSE instead of a symptom. But I guarantee at some point you will wind up right back here to square one.

BTW, even if you do want to chase down some bugs, why not give the SR a try at the same time? You can learn many techniques at a mimimum of cost. If you don't want to buy the books, there are libraries all over the place. Why not spend a VAST amount of time on this for a while and see if it works?

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Re: frustrated

Posted by Raisa on May 14, 2002 at 16:55:31:

In Reply to: frustrated posted by ray on May 14, 2002 at 16:18:38:

Hi, Ray - Have you read the archives on skilled relaxation, and especially Dr. Stoll's article? People of all ages can benefit from SR, including little children. Raisa



Re: frustrated

Posted by ray on May 14, 2002 at 17:10:38:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated posted by Raisa on May 14, 2002 at 16:55:31:

I don't doubt the benefits of SR or the intentions of dr stoll. Thanks for your input!

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Re: frustrated

Posted by Rick on May 14, 2002 at 18:57:27:

In Reply to: frustrated posted by ray on May 14, 2002 at 16:18:38:

Hi Ray - I have a Candida/Leaky Gut Questionnaire - if you want to email me and fill one out - I'll give you my suggestions on what your health problems are and what you can do to help youself! (alternative.health@verizon.net)



Re: frustrated

Posted by ray on May 15, 2002 at 02:36:48:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated posted by Rick on May 14, 2002 at 18:57:27:

thanks, is that your email address?

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Re: frustrated

Posted by ray on May 15, 2002 at 02:45:48:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated posted by Raisa on May 14, 2002 at 16:55:31:

on second thought ....

not to play devils advocate ... but along this line of thought; my brother was suffering from gastritis at 10 yrs old .. from a lack of SR?? ... hmmm.

p.s.
he still suffers to this day at 32



Re: frustrated (And deserved.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 15, 2002 at 08:41:24:

In Reply to: frustrated posted by ray on May 14, 2002 at 16:18:38:

Ray,

Your doubts are based upon a lack of knowledge on your part.

You are going to have to read Dr Selye's classic "The Stress of Life" and then Dr Pelletier's book "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" before you begin to know what this is about. MOST practicing physicians STILL do not know what will be standard practice in 20 years.

Granted this is a big commitment. If you have a better way, I am all ears.

Let us know what you learn.

Walt



Re: frustrated

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 15, 2002 at 08:47:10:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated posted by ray on May 15, 2002 at 02:45:48:

Ray,

You certainly need more background information! All you need is on this 'site and in the references I have suggested.

The human genome project has shown that genetic susceptibility can cause babies to be born with a susceptibility to GI problems caused by intrauterine stress.

See this week's Newsweek for known effects of intrauterine stress of the mother.

You are simply going to have to stop putting so much time into the internet until you have done your homework.

Namaste`

Walt

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Re: frustrated (And deserved.)

Posted by ray on May 15, 2002 at 15:14:04:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated (And deserved.) posted by Walt Stoll on May 15, 2002 at 08:41:24:

dr stoll,

thanks for ayour attention to my post. First of all, "deserved", forgive me sir, but is this your version of tough love or something? This seems to be the typical style of many BB's that I have witnessed when anyone calls into question their practices or theories. I'm an intelligent and educated guy, so patronizing comments are totally lost on me. Now, if anything, you might say I tend to be a skeptic to any idea initially, just ask my doc. I have had MDs try to perscribe me all types of meds including librax and prozac, most of which I throw out the window on the way home. I try to pick and choose from all the different ideas that I encounter to amass some logical assessment of my situation; otherwise, I can tell you I'd probably be penniless. I am questioning the validity of the benefits of your SR. There are many other types of relaxation techniques widely practised such as biofeedback, yoga, meditation etc; thus, I an convinced of its effectiveness. I feel this could be extremely helpful in many cases, particularly those of chronic illness. However, I can not subscribe to the theory that herein lies the root of all illness. That idea is simply rediculous. It is very easy to paint modern medicine as the "Evil One", and in some senses, this may even be accurate, but I believe on the whole, most docors go into medicine to help NOT harm. Any mistakes or errors in judgment they might make are perhaps from misinformation at worst, but ultimately with the best intentions. Naturally, there are going to be those few individuals who are more concerned with lining their pockets; however, you and I both know that doctor bashing is not going to cure the worlds ills.
Having said all of this, let me relay to you what I do agree with. I have read alot about the LG syndrome, in fact long before I saw this BB. I believe in many different aspects of your theories of digestive wellness. First of all, I agree that there does have to be some dysfunction in the system to allow these parasites to take hold. I further agree that this window of oppurtunity might be as a result of poor diet or anything that upsets the natural environment of the GI tract (ie antibiotics), and perhaps, to a degree, stress. As you can see I have been paying attention; furthermore, of all this "time" I spend on the net, the bulk of it is at your website sir. At any rate, as advanced as I may feel my understanding of this whole situation is, I'm not nearly as certain how to go about getting a handle on it, as it seems it becomes such a viscious cycle. A couple of things which seem to make sense to me are: antibiotics may temporarily aleve some symtoms but will not cure the dysfunction, as ultimately they actually aggrevate the situation. Perhapsa in the cases of amoebas, they temporarily disrupt the feeding cycle, but also wipe out beneficial bacteria, allowing the proliferation of pathogenic bacteria or perhaps candida etc. I can see also where diet plays a role, where a sugary diet high in carbs will feed bacteria overgrowth which, in turn possibly feeds other organisms. I whole heartedly agree that no cure will be found without eventually addressing the underlying cause: LGS; until then reinfection either by bacteria overgrowth, amoebas, yeast, and/or other parasites can be expected to occur.
So, as I said Dr Stoll, I am not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I believe this website offers a wealth of information. I thank you for your time and experience which has yielded so much wisdom for so many people, including myself,

regards,
ray.



Re: frustrated (And deserved.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 16, 2002 at 10:05:04:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated (And deserved.) posted by ray on May 15, 2002 at 15:14:04:

Ray.

The reason I said what I said and HOW I said it is that it says to me that you are complaining about not understanding enough to know what you are talking about without taking advantage of the basic books that have done THEIR best to provide that informaion in a way anyone who wants it can understand.

Laying THAT groundwork is beyond the purpose of this website. You are just going to have to do it. It will not even have to cost you anything but your time since they both are available through your lending library.

When you have done that homework I would be happy to discuss it with you via the bulletin board. If you have these "doubts" so must many others.

It is MY job to open doors. I have learned, a long time ago, that I cannot make anyone walk thgough those doors.

You sound like someone I would enjoy exchanging thoughts with but not at this level.

Walt



Re: frustrated

Posted by ray on May 16, 2002 at 12:02:55:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated (And deserved.) posted by Walt Stoll on May 16, 2002 at 10:05:04:

Again dr stoll,

thanks for your reply. I'm not sure that my level of knowledge is quite as inadequate as you might think. But whatever the case, I am open to any suggestions of specific works which you might feel that I would benefit by reading. Actually I just completed reading a book by GI experts from Harvard which basically says "I don't know" from cover to cover with a "learn to live with it" epilogue. It basically rehashed what I already knew about the physical aspects then attempted to define the hair splitting diagnoses (ie; IBS vs IBD ...etc), ultimately a complete waste of my time. As well, I have read many works on holistic remedies etc, suggesting countless herbal and alternative remedies. I have also read optimal wellness,(almost in its entirety) and Digestive Wellness (Lipski). Both of these are well received books I believe? I still have yours to read when I finally get it.
best regards,
ray.



Re: frustrated (Archive in LGS.) REFERENCES

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 17, 2002 at 13:54:19:

In Reply to: Re: frustrated posted by ray on May 16, 2002 at 12:02:55:

Hi,k Ray.

I thought I had already recommended Dr Selye's and Dr Pelletier's books. The only other one at this stage of your education would be Dr Trent Nichols' & Nancy Faass', MSW, MPH book "Optimal Digestion--New Strategies for Achieving Digestive Health".

Let us know what you learn. You are soon going to see how far behind the "GI experts at Harvard" are. They ought to be ashamed!

Walt

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