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If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

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If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

Even high dose oral injestion of probiotics are ineffective in colonizing the large intestine. Just ask Rubin Jordan of Garden of Life products. According to his book he took up to 6 bottles a DAY of very expensive probiotic formulas that didn't help. He tried dozens of formulas and none of them helped him to any great degree. Why? He found out the hard way that probiotics won't colonize in an alkaline colon dominated by bad bacteria. Hence he turned to SBO's that WILL colonize in an alkaline colon, BUT they are supposedly transient SBO's-staying just days. So if SBO's are transiet, how do you expect to colonize the large intestine with the good bacteria that will stay? Oral injestion has proven itself not to be the answer. Bet you know where I'm going with this. I don't want to be stuck taking expensive sbo's the rest of my life. After the SBO's muscle out the bad bacteria and then leave days later, got any bright ideas about how to get good bacteria into the large colon without going through the overly acidic stomach and highly alkaline small bowel?



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by cris on April 26, 2003 at 08:12:55:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

You are asking some good questions.
To my knowledge, the pH of the small intestine is not highly alkaline. It is slightly more acidic than blood. Arterial blood is around 7.35 pH, while the small intestine below the duodenum is 7-7.2 pH. The pH of most bodily fluids is under extremely tight regulation, since enzymatic action is highly dependent upon the ambient pH.
The body has many mechanisms to control and adjust the pH of the various fluid compartments of the body, including local and "global" mechanisms. These neural, hormonal and buffer mechanisms keep the pH stable despite wide variations in bodily imput and processing. Since the kidney is a major route of pH adjustment in the body, its pH is much more variable than that of other fluid compartments.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by R. on April 26, 2003 at 13:52:10:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

First of all, experience of one person hardly constitutes a proof. And the story of Rubin Jordan of Garden of Life deserves special scrutiny because he has financial interest in selling his products.

No matter what your theoretical reasonings lead you to, many people have overcome dysbiosis with either or both probiotic capsules/tablets/etc. and lacto-fermented foods. Any theory must be verified by practice, and your theory doesn't withstand such verification.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Jon on April 26, 2003 at 17:51:20:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

The SOB's are supposed to get the colon back to good health. How did it get in poor health? Years of poor diet, stress, ect. once the colon is healthy again, then we can keep it that way with wellness. Primal Defense worked perfectly for me. You can get some of the SBO's for free by eating a carrot ect. you just picked from you garden.

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Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems?

Posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 17:59:25:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by R. on April 26, 2003 at 13:52:10:

Let's put it to a vote. I raise this point because so many people on this board are on the lactofermented foods and probitics however, I see NOT ONE positive comment about how their chronic digestive problems are now solved, etc...It's from an observation really. Not that eating lacto fermented foods is a bad idea. It just hasn't panned out to be the great healing elixer of digestive problems that we all hoped it would be based on the lack of people raving about it helping them. And I'll bet a great many of those eating lacto fermented foods are also taking probiotics, eating a whole foods diet correctly, drinking kefir, doing all the right things that are recommended on this site. However, there is still a huge void of evidence that all the healthy eating habits that are put forth here are doing much good. I think they are all steps in the right direction to be sure, but there are still missing parts to the health puzzle. There is no conspiracy here R, I'm just making the point that I bet I'm not the only one who has tried lacto fermented foods, probiotics, PD, PF, raw goat milk kefir, whole foods diet, coconut oils, omega 3 oils, digestive enzymes, special vitamins and minerals, organic everything, etc., and still not improving. Yet, I continue with this same diet even today hoping for a turn around because I believe that all the above are good for you and I think most everyone SHOULD be following the health protocols here. Although I think you will find out there are a surprising number of us that still have health problems despite our best efforts to follow the advice here. So I ask you how can that be? What part of the puzzle is missing? I still have dysbiosis based on my last stool test. Took all the recommended anti bacterial supplements that Great smokies said would help. Nada. I still believe in probiotics and SBO's however they haven't proved to be the answer yet. Did you know that 1/3 the weight of stool is bacteria? How many trillions and trillion and trillions of bad bacteria are in something the size of your stool? Look at the size of a probiotic capsule. Most of it is filler. If your colon is dominated by bad bacteria and your stool is a full 1/3 comprised of it, how can you expect such a small amount of good bacteria that could survive a trip through the harsh environment of the stomach and small intestine to have even a snowballs chance in hell of colonizing, especially if the environment is alkaline? It would be like sending in a boyscout troop barefoot to take on the whole US army in the middle of the desert during summer. VSL#3 hasn't helped, Lactobacillus GG hasn't helped, raw goat milk kefir hasn't helped. And GASP, PD hasn't helped. My contention is we need to find a BETTER way to get the colon to a slightly acidic state.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 18:23:22:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by cris on April 26, 2003 at 08:12:55:

The small intestine is divided into three parts: the duodenum, the jejunum, and the ilium. In health, the first 7 to 12 inches of the small intestine, the duodenum, is just about sterile. The ph of the duodenum is between 4-5, an acid state. The length from the deuodenum to the ileum is approximately 14 feet in a grown adult with a surface absorption area the size of a tennis court. In this length, there is an increase in alkaline ph. Most all of the microbial inhabitants in this region are transient and may or may not be alive. The small bacterial population would range between 90 thousand and 11 million per gram of digestive material in the lower ileum. Clearly the anaerobic lactobacteria are meant to colonize mostly the lower part of the digestive tract, the colon, not the small intestine. The colon, though, is supposed to function as an anaerobic fermentative chamber, filled with lactobacteria flora and mantain a slightly acidic ph.

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Re: Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems?

Posted by R. on April 26, 2003 at 19:03:27:

In Reply to: Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems? posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 17:59:25:

I don't know what's missing in your situation. It's for you to find out. It's certainly helped me. I don't take probiotics in capsules -- I eat fermented foods that contain a lot more at much lower price.

Studies have shown that orally taken probiotics help (e.g. see http://www.vrp.com/scripts/vrpMoreNews.asp?ART=568). Just because something didn't work for you, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't help everybody. But your statement seems to be that probiotics don't help.

There's more to health, including GI health, than diet. Stress, for instance, significantly affects GI tract.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by bing on April 26, 2003 at 19:06:16:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

WOW, if every person on this planet asks questions like you do, the world will definitely be a much better place!

I'm not a medical doctor, but I do have some experiences with food and health, so here are my 2 cents:

First, suppliments is NOT the way to go as a long-term health solution. For vibrant health, we do need to teach our body to absorb all nutrients from whole foods, water, air, and sunlight. Suppliments are like crutches: it can help for some short-term make-do, but no healthy person want to depend on crutches for the rest of their lives. And these crutches will drag us down if we don't learn to live without.

Second, we can't separate the colon from the rest of the body, especially the other digestive organs, from the mouth to the stomach to the pancreas/spleen to liver to gallblader to the small instines, etc. They are all closely connected and interdependent upon each other, after all. To single out the colon and to attempt to work on its ph balance is still following the allopathic frame of mind, as if the colon exists all on its own. So, while addressing problems with colon, we need to include all the other digestive organs as a whole.

Third, the answer to good digestive health (and good health in general) is balance, especially a balanced diet. From what I have seen on this board, however, very few people eat a truly balanced diet. I remember HY once posted some sample of his daily diet. From my perspective (which tends to combine traditional Chinese food therapy with western nutrition), his diet (as shown in what he posted) is not in good balance, because a diet like his must depend on suppliments to sustain health. Any dietary plans that can't provide all the nutrients necessary for our daily requirements is an imbalanced one. All those fad diet ideas such as high-fat diet, low-carbo diet, no-grain diet, no-meat diet, etc. will eventually lead to imbalance, because the iseas behind these "theories" are imbalanced.

Fourth, how to find a balanced diet? The answer is it depends on the individual. But as a start, finding the right way is a crucial first step. I've studied most of the popular books on diet and health, and found most of them tell partial truth--to my disappointment. The one book closest to telling the whole truth is "Healing with Whole Foods" by Paul Pitchford. I do believe any careful reader of this book will find the answer to his/her health solutions.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by bing on April 26, 2003 at 19:23:05:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by bing on April 26, 2003 at 19:06:16:

If you really think about it, what food can be better than whole, fresh, organic, natural foods? These are the things that have sustained every living organism on this planet for god-knows-how-long. So human health also dwells on these natural foods--as FOODS, not processed, denatured pills or tablets or liquids in a bottle.

The main reason and motivation behind all suppliment industry is profit--just like any other industry or business. If the caring of people's health is the main reason/motivation, then reducing pollutents in people's lives, reducing pesticides, herbcides, and other harmful substances that end up in our food, clothing, houses, the air, the water, the earth etc. would be the thing to do. But alas, who is really doing that?

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Re: Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems?

Posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 20:05:31:

In Reply to: Re: Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems? posted by R. on April 26, 2003 at 19:03:27:

I've fallen victim to that probiotic hype too. Been there tried that. Have some lactobacillus GG here that I'll sell for REAL cheap. I've even added some to raw goat milk kefir and home made yogurt to increase their counts, still here with the same ole, same ole. Look at the facts R, Lactobacillus has been around for a long time and tried by lots and lots of people with digestive problems. Maybe some have been helped. But I visit so many IBS/IBD boards and don't see overwhelming evidence from those people that it does much.



Re: Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems?

Posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 00:09:05:

In Reply to: Re: Let's vote. Who keeps taking probiotics but still has health problems? posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 20:05:31:

Apparently, those people with IBS/IBD that you see have other factors that keep them sick despite all the probiotics they consume.

I know one person in live-food yahoo group that whose Crohn's condition was improved dramatically within a week by taking so called Effective Microrganisms (EM). If you are not familiar with them, you can learn about them at http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/em/.

One of your problems is that you want to generilize ideas, and your thinking is that if you didn't benefit from a treatment and know somebody else who didn't benefit from it, then the treatment must be BS. This thinking is fallacious. Just consider other facts, and you will understand what I am saying.

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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 00:24:59:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by bing on April 26, 2003 at 19:06:16:

how to find a balanced diet? The answer is it depends on the individual

So, for someone a balanced diet might be a low carb/high fat diet, and for another it might be the opposite. A balanced diet doesn't necessarily mean equal amounts of all macronutrients or specific foods. For somebody, eating lots of grains with a little animal based food is just great, whereas for another grains would be detrimental. The concept of a balanced diet is too ambiguous.

As far as supplements are concerned, they could be beneficial even if one has a super whole and balanced diet. Only because foods might have grown on depleted soils. Now, supplements don't have to come in the form of tablets of capsules.



More about supplements

Posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 02:15:23:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 00:24:59:

There are supplements that people find very beneficial even if the diet is good and wholesome. You don't get much of these things in your food. Examples of such supplements are negative hydrogen ion (http://www.h-minus-ion.org/), indium, ormus elements, vitamin C (doesn't have to be synthetic; can be a whole food supplement).



Re: More about supplements

Posted by Happygal on April 27, 2003 at 04:38:39:

In Reply to: More about supplements posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 02:15:23:

Hi R.,

What kind of Vitamin C is available as a whole food supplement?

Best wishes,
Happygal



If SBO's are transient and probiotics die before the colon? (Archive in LGS.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on April 27, 2003 at 06:22:38:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

Thanks, Thinking.

This is EXACTLY what happens if nothing is done about the LGS that is behind Crohn's. His observations are correct so long as LGS continues. He is just lucky that he was able to resolve his Crohn's with his simplistic approach. His discovery has been a boon to many people but, like most things like this, his experience is the exception and not the norm. Unfortunately, as with all who have only partial information, he is focusing on what worked for him and not on the whole picture.

None of us have all the information needed but, at least I know that we still have a lot to learn.

Unless he continues learning and, while his Crohn's is under control, actually does something about his LGS, I fear it will recurr.

Hope this helps.

Walt



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Walt Stoll on April 27, 2003 at 06:23:50:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by bing on April 26, 2003 at 19:06:16:

Right on, Bing!

Walt

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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Miho on April 27, 2003 at 07:08:01:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

One of the probiotics that have proven to colonize is: YOUR OWN BACTERIA (human bacteria) There is a lab here in Japan that have done the study about it & now offering the service of stool analysis + separating beneficial bacteria in your colon, culture them and putting them in capsels so they can be taken orally - only by you. They had already found in their study that other conventional bacteria in the market did not colonize. That was the starting point for them.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by bing on April 27, 2003 at 08:21:12:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 00:24:59:

About your first point: without knowing the properties of each food we eat, without knowing the conditions of out body, it's difficult to come to the right conclusion about a balanced diet (and life style) for each individual. Good thing is, one can easily learn all these knowledge, either through experiences, or through reading.

Second, the answer for vibrant health can be found in many places, but NOT in a bottle. In fact, the idea itself--searching for answers from a bottle--is a fallacy. To improve health, we can't separate ourselves from the earth and the well-being of the earth. I believe organic farming is still the way to go, because that's the only possible solution to the health crisis we have experienced.

As to foods grown in depleted soil, well, don't buy it! If foods are grown organically, on rich, fertile soil, almost certainly they will provide enough nutrients for all of us.



Re: More about supplements

Posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 15:52:53:

In Reply to: Re: More about supplements posted by Happygal on April 27, 2003 at 04:38:39:

One that immediately comes to mind is acerola cherry powder. I've come across others but don't remember their names.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 16:02:54:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by bing on April 27, 2003 at 08:21:12:

the idea itself--searching for answers from a bottle--is a fallacy

You need to be more specific, because I can put some whole food in a bottle and prove you wrong. If you are talking about synthetic and/or isolated supplements, then you need to say so because not everything that comes in a bottle is not whole.

I believe organic farming is still the way to go, because that's the only possible solution to the health crisis we have experienced.

In this country, organic basically means not using chemicals. This doesn't guarantee high quality. There's another term that describes better farming techniques -- biodynamic.

As to foods grown in depleted soil, well, don't buy it!

Why haven't you said this before, bing??? It's so easy to tell which food was grown in depleted soil and which not, right? I hope you were able to detect my sarcasm here.

If foods are grown organically, on rich, fertile soil, almost certainly they will provide enough nutrients for all of us.

I'd say they would provide more nutrients. I am not as confident as you are that they certainly will provide enough nutrient for us. On the other hand, you did say "almost certainly". Keeping an open mind or trying to write more words? :)



Re: If SBO's are transient and probiotics die before the colon? (Archive in LGS.)

Posted by Jon on April 27, 2003 at 16:57:18:

In Reply to: If SBO's are transient and probiotics die before the colon? (Archive in LGS.) posted by Walt Stoll on April 27, 2003 at 06:22:38:

I believe that he practices SR every day. I heard that during his recovery, he meditated up to 3 hours per day.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by bing on April 27, 2003 at 17:39:59:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 16:02:54:

1. By "answer in a bottle," I refer to processed/isolated/extracted stuff which could be suppliments, medication, drugs, etc.

2. Yea, but "biodynamic" is more an European concept--the US hasn't caught up yet.

3. Well, that's where psychic ability comes in handy: I can FEEL whether a food is grown properly or not. heh heh. Aren't you jealous.

4. You agreed with me.



my key to a balanced diet

Posted by Kenny on April 27, 2003 at 22:11:20:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by bing on April 26, 2003 at 19:06:16:

I eat as many different varieties of food that I can in the biggest quantities possible to ensure that I get all that I need. Even when I eat a whole bag of sour cream and onion potato chips I will dip them in a variety of homemade dips. I'll dip some in melted caramel, others in melted chocolate, even ice cream. If I have a banana split I'll put peanut butter, Reese's Pieces and bacon bits in it. I even put mexican salsa on candy bars to add extra nutrients. I just eat as many foods as I can, that way I'm giving my body all it needs plus I get to eat everything I want.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Kenny on April 27, 2003 at 22:12:19:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

nm

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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by Maz on April 28, 2003 at 07:31:30:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by bing on April 27, 2003 at 17:39:59:

Hi Bing,

I think you must live in a dream world. Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I don't agree that organic necessarily ensures we would receive all the nutrients we need. It's far better than non-organic, but I think you are being a bit naive. I also don't believe you can "feel" that something has been grown properly. I got the feeling you had to say something like that to save face.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by bing on April 28, 2003 at 07:54:03:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by Maz on April 28, 2003 at 07:31:30:

Oh Maz, are you always so serious? ;)

I believe R. got the humor part.



Re: my key to a balanced diet

Posted by bing on April 28, 2003 at 08:04:39:

In Reply to: my key to a balanced diet posted by Kenny on April 27, 2003 at 22:11:20:

O you are so generous to share with us your health tips, Kenny. I'll try chips with salsa and icecream--it sounds wonderful! LOL

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Re: More about supplements - Thanks, R. - NMI

Posted by Happygal on April 28, 2003 at 08:14:22:

In Reply to: Re: More about supplements posted by R. on April 27, 2003 at 15:52:53:

Thanks, R.


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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by Maz on April 28, 2003 at 08:59:11:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by bing on April 28, 2003 at 07:54:03:

Sorry bing. I guess I didn't realise it was a joke. You being from the Orient and all that, and into mind/body stuff, I thought you were being serious. I think I take life too seriously sometimes.

Regards,
Maz

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Re: If SBO's are transient and probiotics die before the colon? (Archive in LGS.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on April 28, 2003 at 09:18:02:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are transient and probiotics die before the colon? (Archive in LGS.) posted by Jon on April 27, 2003 at 16:57:18:

Thanks, Jon.

If this is true and he keeps it up at least once a day, his chances of relapse are very small.

Walt

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Miho, What's the name of that company that makes the probiotics?

Posted by howdy on April 28, 2003 at 21:45:19:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Miho on April 27, 2003 at 07:08:01:

Does that company that makes the probiotics have a website? What is their name????? Have you tried them out?

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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Helping You on April 28, 2003 at 23:18:42:

In Reply to: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Thinking out loud on April 26, 2003 at 01:15:59:

To make a long story short, the reason that the probiotics would not work in him is because his colon was too alkaline and would not support healthy bacteria, in any amount. I don't care how many roses you plant, if the soil is toxic, they will not grow. He took the SBO's EVERY DAY to keep them in the colon. The SBO's cleaned the colon and helped make it more alkaline. Once this happens, the good bacteria are able to come back. If they don't, taking probiotics AT THAT POINT should help to restore the flora

-HY



I sure did. nmi

Posted by R. on April 29, 2003 at 15:21:00:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by bing on April 28, 2003 at 07:54:03:


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You probably meant "more acidic". nmi

Posted by R. on April 29, 2003 at 15:22:34:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Helping You on April 28, 2003 at 23:18:42:


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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by R. on April 29, 2003 at 15:50:03:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Helping You on April 28, 2003 at 23:18:42:

Keeping in mind that one of HY's sentences should read "The SBO's cleaned the colon and helped make it more acidic", you should reevaluate fermented foods, such as sauerkraut, kimchi, etc. These foods are fermented with residual microbes that surely contain some of what is called soil based organisms (SBO's). And some of them are usual lactic acid producing bacteria.

You do not need to buy probiotic supplements. There's nothing magical about them to justify paying a lot of money for them. You can make your own probiotic foods (read healingcrow.com/ferfun/ferfun.html to learn more about it) for very little money. Buying probiotic supplements is a good idea for ignorant, lazy, wealthy, or those who need them right now. You can produce your own probiotic foods within a few days. And by consuming probiotic foods, you will ingest beneficial microflora along with the food these beneficial microbes need. Taking isolated microbes in capsules or tablets doesn't do that.

People suffer with microflora related GI problems partly due to their ignorance and/or laziness.



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by
NJ on April 30, 2003 at 10:50:02:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Helping You on April 28, 2003 at 23:18:42:

please someone research MiracleII (miracleIInetwork) for me and let me know your findings. I have taken/used it for over a month and digestion problems are considerably improved. Thank You. Nita



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon

Posted by Nutmeg on April 30, 2003 at 11:18:29:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by NJ on April 30, 2003 at 10:50:02:

Nita,

I noticed some small, but very positive changes in my digestion too. I started using it in January. How much neutralizer are you taking? I typically put 7 drops in every glass or bottle of water I drink. I also use the soap a few times a week.

I think the word about Miracle II/Master's Miracle is getting out, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of these products on the board.

Nutmeg

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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by Helping You on April 30, 2003 at 22:06:37:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by R. on April 29, 2003 at 15:50:03:

I can't argue with that

-HY

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I meant.........more acidic! nmi

Posted by Helping You on April 30, 2003 at 22:07:36:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to colon posted by Helping You on April 28, 2003 at 23:18:42:

nmi

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Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by link doesn't work on April 30, 2003 at 22:10:04:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by R. on April 29, 2003 at 15:50:03:

link doesn't work



Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c

Posted by Now it does on May 02, 2003 at 02:40:25:

In Reply to: Re: If SBO's are supposed to be transient and probiotics die before getting to c posted by link doesn't work on April 30, 2003 at 22:10:04:


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