Leaky Gut Syndrome archives

Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:14:15:

Walt,

Here is an exerpt from an article on Vioxx -- the newest of the COX-2 inhibitors that are destined to replace the current ibuprophen-like non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.

For a long time we've known that these non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs have worked via a mechanism that blocks the production of some prosteglandins. Unfortunately these prosteglandins also regulate tissue repair.

The result is that the medical establishment has prescribed these things in the face of side effects as mild as intestinal distress and as severe as the formation of gastric ulcers and life threatening gastro-intestinal bleeds. It is interesting to note that those with rheumatoid arthritis have a 50% higher risk of developing GI bleeding as compared to their osteoarthritis counterparts.

More recently studies have shown that non-steroidal anti-inflammatory use actually ACCELERATES joint destruction in folks with arthritis. This prompted many forward thinking rheumatologists to stop prescribing these drugs for rheumatoid arthritis when other immune-suppressing anti-rheumatic drugs were already being used by the patient.

Now the new COX-2 anti-inflammtory drugs are emerging. They tout the benefit of their different mechanism using things like intestinal permeability tests to highlight their advantage over the drugs they hope to displace. The new COX-2 drug makers suggest that things like increased intestinal permeability, increased translocation of proteins across the intestinal wall, micro-erosions and micro-bleeding (all associated with the old anti-inflammatory drugs) are ALL BAD THINGS!

Of course the horse is already out of the barn since the public has been told that they represent little danger. They were prescribed like candy by physicians before and now they are sold over-the-counter next to the TUMS.

Here is the excerpt from the article -- if you want to read the entire article just go to the link below. You should feel vindicated, again..............

Bob

"Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs have been well-established in studies and in practice as causing small amounts of gastrointestinal blood loss, an indicator of microerosions or ulcers," said lead study author Richard Hunt, M.D., professor of medicine and gastroenterology, McMaster University Medical Center, Hamilton, ON.


All fecal samples, collected daily for four weeks, were monitored for the presence of radioactivity. The amount of radioactivity found is a measure of the amount of intestinal blood loss along the whole GI tract, Dr. Hunt explained.


Findings showed that volunteers in both treatment groups of Vioxx had results similar to those taking placebo, showing no significant differences in blood loss. Study participants given ibuprofen had twice as much blood loss as those taking Vioxx or placebo.


In a second study, volunteers given 25 mg or 50 mg of Vioxx once a day had no significant difference from placebo in measures of intestinal permeability, while those given 50 mg of indomethacin three times a day had significant increases -- up to 58 percent -- in permeability. Increases in intestinal permeability are believed to be a harbinger of GI toxicity, particularly low-grade inflammation, bleeding and intestinal protein loss.


Permeability is a measure of the leakiness of the protective linings of the stomach and intestine.


"A healthy and functional GI tract allows sugar, for example, to be absorbed and acts as a barrier to toxic agents, preventing them from being absorbed," said lead author Ingvar Bjarnason, M.D., reader in medicine and gastroenterology at King's College School of Medicine, London.


The seven-day study involved 39 healthy volunteers aged 18 to 39 years who drank a mixture of agents, some that are normally absorbed through the lining of the intestine and others that are not. Urine samples were evaluated for the presence and ratio of these agents to determine increases in intestinal permeability to those


Follow Ups:


Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:17:58:

In Reply to: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:14:15:

Walt,

I got so worked up I forgot the link!

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/b4856.htm

Bob



Follow Ups:

Back to Babyfood?

Posted by Mary Jackson on November 12, 1998 at 17:38:31:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:17:58:

Hi Bob and All,

It's beginning to look to me as if juvenile diabetics and others with autoimmune disorders might be able to benefit by a program like this: http://www.nutramed.com/alpha/alphaceliac.htm
They have a program for type II diabetics, but I'm not sure what would be suitable for type I. But the idea is to take things back to first base dietarily (whether a person is a fullblown celiac or not--throw out the gluten, casein, etc.)
Take a food holiday as the site says (they used to fast diabetics).

I'm still thinking about the light deficiency and the messed up rhythms (inverse cortisol rhythms and such) that I wrote about on down further. Perhaps too much cortisol or cortisol at the wrong time does intestinal damage. Also, when a person gets artificially induced insulin he loses rhythm, and some study has been done to administer insulin according to natural rhythms of insulin production. This was in the Body Time book by Gay Gaer Luce. I feel like I'm before my time and walking straight uphill! Mary J.




Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Robin Pollan on November 12, 1998 at 17:58:44:

In Reply to: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:14:15:

I know first hand what these drugs can do to your stomach.

I took one Aleve one day and another the next day, by the third day I had a full blown duodenal ulcer.

I also had a liver virus one time and was told by the doctor that I could not take Tylenol (because it is metabolized in the liver) so I had to take Advil/Aspirin to keep my 104 degree fever down and that is how I developed my first duodenal ulcer.

I will suffer through excrutiating pain before I will take ANY NSaid.

Robin



Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Nancy on November 12, 1998 at 20:51:46:

In Reply to: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:14:15:

Bob

Excuse me, am I reading this right? Does this say that the medical establishment is now admitting in the validity of the intestinal permeability testing? When I spoke to my internist ( whom I once thought was pretty open-minded) about it last winter, he told me there was no scietific basis for the premise of leaky gut. Of course, I'm sure that the ONLY reason the pharmacutical companies are getting interested in it is the $$$$$$$$$! Trouble is, these new drugs are probably as bad or worse. I wouldn't take them, would you?

Nancy



Follow Ups:


Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 22:13:03:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Nancy on November 12, 1998 at 20:51:46:

Nancy,

I posted that BECAUSE the so called intestinal permeability tests that were previously ridiculed are now being used as a basis for differentiation between the OLD non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and their COX-2 inhibiting counterparts!

Even though it is the height of hypocracy it will be a good thing as the impact of intestinal permeability will filter down and sometime in the next 5 years will come home to nest with practicioners of the ilk you just mentioned.

Since I'm the 'arthritis guy' I make it my responsibility to know as much as I possibly can about ANYTHING that has to do with arthritis. Along with that responsibility comes the need to evaluate what drugs are on the market. I can unequivocably state that NONE of the existing drugs for arthritis have a profile with benefits that exceed their side effects. I am currently giving very close attention to understanding the mechanisms of the new COX-2 inhibitors as well as the TNF (tumor necrosis factor) blocking drugs.

Personally the TNF drugs really scare the hell out of me. Five years from now we might find that they increase the incidence of cancer by ten-fold or more.

The COX-2 inhibitors seem less risky.

Personally I wouldn't take either of them, however I have to be realistic that not everyone will eat a perfect whole foods diet appropriate for their metabolic type while excluding all their known food allergens while they religiously practice their skilled relaxation. Some folks already have significant joint damage and will be saddled with inflammatory activity no matter how well they do the above. If there is a drug that can manage that inflammation and pain without creating overly adverse side effects I need to let folks know.

I really would be interested in topicals that could deliver the drug right to the site of the inflammation rather than through the GI tract. Too bad those are few and far between.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 13, 1998 at 11:49:21:

In Reply to: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:14:15:

Dear Bob,

Your wonderful note reminds me of why I keep saying that public education is the only thing that will set us free from the self-serving conventional medical monopoly. The "profession" gets away with this schizophrenia BECAUSE the public doesn't know any better-----NOT because the profession doesn't know better.

One contemporary example of this is the recent AMA Journal mentioned by RocketHealer Jim yesterday.

Another is the amendment to the Welfare Bill signed into law a year ago August & that went into effect January 1st of this year. The AMA stealthed in the amendment so that no one knew itr was there till it had passed. It established a law that any physician who discussed any alternative approach to their illness was guilty of fraud & liable to 10 years in prison (IF s/he charged anything for the information). Of course, there is no way for the doc to prove how much of the office charge was for alternative or conventional adivce. SO, it means any physician who gives out any alternative advice can be prosecuted for a feberal crime. Any patient who gets that advice (and turns in the bill to any insurance payer) is just as guilty of fraud and prosecutable exactly like the doc.

Anyone wanting to know more about this new law should call (409) 846-8967 and ask for information about H.R. 3103. Let us knwo what you learn.

The same month that that became the law of the land, the literature stated that 75% of medical schools were teaching alternatives. SO, our tax dollars are paying to teach these advances while our federal government is gearing up to put any doc in jail that dares to discuss them with his/her patient.

Talk about schizophrenia!

As the system gets more & more stressed with the AMA's insistance on holding on to their monopoly, in the face of increasing need for change, more and more schizophrenia will show up. The more the public knows the less they will be ground up in the change.

Walt




Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Nancy on November 13, 1998 at 14:51:01:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 22:13:03:


Bob

Thank the Lord, I don't suffer from arthritis other than an occasional stiffness in the fingers, tennis elbow, and jaw joint deterioration which is mostly asymptomatic, but I used to have fibromyalgia and had lots of aching joints and muscles. I tried one of the topical compounds that was mixed by prescription from a physatrist, but it had little or no effect. That's where the research needs to be, though, in my opinion. Let's keep as much as possible out of the stomach and intestines! That's one reason I use an estrogen patch vs. pills.

Nancy




Follow Ups:


Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory

Posted by NAN27 on November 15, 1998 at 17:58:26:

In Reply to: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Robert McFerran on November 12, 1998 at 14:14:15:

I have definitely cured/relieved my knee pain with MSM == approximately 2/3 tsp. daily. Works better than anything I have found. Are there dangerous side effects from this???
thanx to anyone for and answer.


Follow Ups:


Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 15, 1998 at 19:25:38:

In Reply to: Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory posted by NAN27 on November 15, 1998 at 17:58:26:

Nan,

I would like to hear more about your experience with MSM.

How long did it take for you to notice the benefit?

How long did you have to take it to notice MAXIMUM benefit?

What other symptoms has the MSM alleviated?

Was your knee pain due to arthritis or some other 'soft tissue' injury?

What kind of diet do you eat?

I really appreciate your input. I can see where MSM might work from a biochemical standpoint yet I and some others that were interested gave it a theraputic trial with little result. Obviously it works for some folks -- some in dramatic fashion. I'm just trying to understand why......

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory

Posted by NAN27 on November 16, 1998 at 16:55:39:

In Reply to: Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory posted by Robert McFerran on November 15, 1998 at 19:25:38:

OK == here is the story:
I ride (horses) long hard 4-5 hour cross-country. == My knees always did bother me some. Got worse and worse. Finally == (and I am not a whiner) intolerable!!!!! Traditional did not work == My Vet and assistant had both used MSM!!!!!!! (Works great with horses) Well, started taking it == and (almost) immediately == few days == noticed results == one tsp. per day takes care of it (almost) completely.

Read on the internet: at first you would notice increased energy and inability to sleep and would prob think you were feeling "much" better, but that later you would revert back. That is indeed how it worked with me.

I do feel better now than in months/(years?) LOL Who knows? But I also started taking Co-Q10 for heart palpitations (a mess aren't I?) Well it worked immediately (no doubt about the time frame there!!!!!!!!! And it definitely made me feel better at the same time. I believe both MSM and Co-Q10 made me feel better overall!!!!!!!

OK == now your turn: my original question was: Do you see any harm in MSM over the long haul?????

Also: What about Co-Q10???? Sure would hate to stop that one. It is a definite winner.

Thanx for any input. You owe me one!!!!! *G*G*G*G*G*


Follow Ups:


Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 16, 1998 at 18:12:07:

In Reply to: Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory posted by NAN27 on November 16, 1998 at 16:55:39:

Nan,

Thanks for your follow-up but you still owe me one point -- what does your diet look like? If you've been following any of the post here in regard to metabolic type would you fall into a Hunter-gatherer or Agriculturist group?

As for safety of the CoQ and the MSM I would have to say that I don't think that there has been any real studies to determine if there is a toxic level or any side effects from their use. The levels you are using are certainly within what I've heard from other folks using the stuff. Who can really comment about the long term use of either of these? CoQ has been around a long time (at least ten years here in the U.S. and much longer in Japan where it is heavily used). I believe that the MSM has been in use for less than 5 years.

By the way -- I'm not a doctor, just in case you didn't know.

Bob


Follow Ups:


Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory

Posted by NAN27 on November 16, 1998 at 19:32:58:

In Reply to: Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory posted by Robert McFerran on November 16, 1998 at 18:12:07:

Well, == that's a hard one. Went back and read some about it. Haven't delved into it much since it seemed to be so complicated. I would say a "mix" == with leaning toward Argiculturist (as in I go very easy on meat. Actually, I would get much more into this but-t-t-t-t with my husband in the picture is impossible. I eat higher fat, less vegetables now than I wished I could just to keep him happy. Sounds like I should be more in control of my own destiny == yes you are right!!!!!!!!!




Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory

Posted by Loretta on November 16, 1998 at 23:00:19:

In Reply to: Re: MSM as anti-inflammatory posted by Robert McFerran on November 16, 1998 at 18:12:07:

About 13 years ago I used MSM to treat my dog for 3 days before a competition(sheep-herding) - she was high in trial. I have also been using MSM myself successfully, alternating with external DMSO occasionally. DMSO is also helpful in an IV(myself), and MSM is the active derivative of DMSO.



Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by steve barker on December 10, 1998 at 06:41:09:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Nancy on November 13, 1998 at 14:51:01:

is arthuritis and joint pain in your opinion caused by diet and digestion.


Follow Ups:


Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by steve barker on December 10, 1998 at 07:20:27:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by Nancy on November 13, 1998 at 14:51:01:

is arthuritis and joint pain in your opinion caused by diet and digestion.


Follow Ups:


Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Robert McFerran on December 10, 1998 at 11:29:54:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by steve barker on December 10, 1998 at 07:20:27:

Steve,

100% of folks with non-traumatic arthritis (arthritis not caused by an accident or some other bio-mechanical dysfuntion) have LEAKY GUT SYNDROME.

Leaky gut syndrome is to some extent caused by improper diet.

Eating a diet to which your individual physiology is improperly adapted creates physiological stress which (amoung other things) robs the intestinal tract of blood flow needed for the demanding cellular regeneration to keep that part of the body functioning in a healthy manner.

Bob



Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on December 11, 1998 at 18:15:23:

In Reply to: Re: Impact of anti-inflammatory drugs on Leaky Gut Syndrome posted by steve barker on December 10, 1998 at 06:41:09:

Dear Steve,

Yes AND by the direct effect of the "bracing" that causes the LGS that, in turn, causes diet to be a factor.

If you want to know how all of this is connected, go to the archives for this BB & read.

THEN, if you have more questions, write again.

It, finally, is clear why nearly every arthritic has some form of intestinal upset. It is NOT just because the antiinflammatories exacerbate the already present LGS.

Walt




Return to Dr Stoll Home Page

Post a Message

Main Archives Page

More Leaky Gut Syndrome archives