Leaky Gut Syndrome archives

Nystatin reactions

Posted by Pam on November 21, 1998 at 01:22:31:

Dr. Stoll,

I have been taking Nystatin powder four times a day for about 6 weeks now. For the first time in years I am free of vaginal yeast infection. But it seems to be doing a number on my intestines. My stomach is constantly churning and noisy. I have gas and diarrhea. It's not unbearable, more of a nuisance. The thing I'm really struggling with is the foul smells that accompany my gas and elimination. Is this part of the die-off of Candida? Can you help me understand what's going on and if there is anything I can do for it?

I have faithfully practiced SR twice a day for 3 months and I'm eating the appropriate metabolic diet. After more than a month of my nagging persistence, my doctor has agreed to run the parasite test (3 purged samples) from Great Smokies and the Candida Immune Complexes from AAL.

I welcome your insights.

Namaste
Pam


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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 22, 1998 at 08:28:30:

In Reply to: Nystatin reactions posted by Pam on November 21, 1998 at 01:22:31:

Dear Pam,

Congratulations on your progress.

I am assuming that you are following the diet in Beth Loiselle, RD's book AND that you have checked out your SR technique with biofeedback to be sure you are not wasting your SR time.

I need to know if both of my assumptions are correct before spending the time that would be needed to track down why this is happening. Your (transitory) symptoms are to be expected if you are really radically changing things.

Walt



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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Robin on November 22, 1998 at 13:08:34:

In Reply to: Nystatin reactions posted by Pam on November 21, 1998 at 01:22:31:

I take Nystatin also and do not have any problems. If you are not already taking it, try acidophilus, this seems to help any stomach problems that I have.

Robin


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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Pam on November 22, 1998 at 13:18:46:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Walt Stoll on November 22, 1998 at 08:28:30:

Thank you Walt.

I am following Bob McFerran's program and eating the extreme agriculturist's diet, excluding those foods that I am allergic to. I have not had my SR tested in this three-month period, although I have been tested in the past. My sense is that I am reaching the desired brainwave state about 75%-80% of the time, up from probably 30% when I first started.

Pam


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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Pam on November 22, 1998 at 13:23:59:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Robin on November 22, 1998 at 13:08:34:

Thanks Robin.

I am taking Primadophilus Bifidus (Nature's Way) daily.

Pam



Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 25, 1998 at 09:14:37:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Pam on November 22, 1998 at 13:18:46:

Dear Pam.

As I am sure you got from my questions, I suspected as much.

First of all, different diets do different things. The "agriculturist diet" may well help your general health a lot but it is not going to do much (directly) for resolving Candida.

What you are experiencing is withdrawal because of not being on a "perfect" elimination of refined carbohydrate diet--necessary to eliminate candida in a reasonable length of time. I would not even try to eliminate candida without having a copy of Beth Loiselle, RD's book in hand.

Next, if you are practicing your SR at least twice a day, the percentage you are actualy reaching the "relaxation response" is probably enough for now. HOWEVER, if you are not doing this at least twice a day, you are never going to resolve anything in any reasonable length of time.

Please enlighten me further.

Walt



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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 25, 1998 at 09:14:56:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Pam on November 22, 1998 at 13:18:46:

Dear Pam.

As I am sure you got from my questions, I suspected as much.

First of all, different diets do different things. The "agriculturist diet" may well help your general health a lot but it is not going to do much (directly) for resolving Candida.

What you are experiencing is withdrawal because of not being on a "perfect" elimination of refined carbohydrate diet--necessary to eliminate candida in a reasonable length of time. I would not even try to eliminate candida without having a copy of Beth Loiselle, RD's book in hand.

Next, if you are practicing your SR at least twice a day, the percentage you are actualy reaching the "relaxation response" is probably enough for now. HOWEVER, if you are not doing this at least twice a day, you are never going to resolve anything in any reasonable length of time.

Please enlighten me further.

Walt




Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Martha on November 25, 1998 at 22:44:21:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Pam on November 22, 1998 at 13:18:46:

How did you find a biofeedback person to test you and
how much did it cost, please?



Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 26, 1998 at 10:42:59:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Walt Stoll on November 25, 1998 at 09:14:37:

Happy Thanksgiving Walt!

I might have to disagree with your statement above.

Actually eating the proper metabolic diet is the BEST way to enhance immunity and the BEST way to fight yeast. The old anti-yeast diets of low carbohydrate and relatively high protein are obsolete. In fact the old diet was quite deleterious for EXTREME Agriculturists like Pam. If she was eating anything close to this diet she would be suffering from extreme fatigue and a myriad of other symptoms (she probably wouldn't resolve her yeast problem either). In the past these complaints by OTHER patients have been simply written off as a Herximer reaction or a healing crisis. There is no healing crisis that I have ever seen that lasts literally months.

Of course I will totally support your statements about being totally perfect with the whole foods and skilled relaxation.

Beyond that Dr. Wiley did notice that the WORST cases of candidiasis would require limiting fruit intake for a month to six weeks. The advantage that Agriculturists have is that the less they eat (especially during this early period) the better they should feel.

Bob


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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 27, 1998 at 06:55:12:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Robert McFerran on November 26, 1998 at 10:42:59:

Hi, Bob.

Happy Holidays to you too!

I must bow to your expertise in the metabolic diet area.

I would caution you, however, to not fall into the routine trap of "To a hammer everything looks like a nail." No matter how good we get at what we do, this is always a looming risk.

The ancients gave us a rule of thumb for "healing crises". I have found it to be a helpful guide. Once the actual causes are being addressed, the chronic condition will start to reverse itself ( not a bad definition of healing crisis). It will tend to reverse itself on a 12-1 timetable. That means if you had a period of headaches 6 years before----that lasted for 60 days----6 months from the time of the beginning reversal the person would likely experience 5 days of headaches. With this description if a person had a sore knee (for 6 weeks), 30 years before the reversal of causes, they would be likely to have a sore knee for a week 30 months after starting to get well. Making sense yet?

Following this rule, "healing crises" can still be going on for years after getting well. They will be self-limited and not so severe as they were in the original incarnation of them but still recognizable.

I have no doubt that following the best metabolic diet for the individual is a powerful impetus toward improved immunity. I don't think ANY of us understand any of this well enough to yet judge which particular approach is best for any individual----------including what I say.

Namaste` Walt



Follow Ups:


Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 27, 1998 at 11:14:15:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Walt Stoll on November 27, 1998 at 06:55:12:

Thanks Walt.

I'm equally humble about what we don't know but I do have to say that I have never seen where the proper metabolic diet (sans food allergens) didn't outperform the anti-candida diets that are routinely prescribed by those practicioners who consider themselves 'in the know'.

It's not that the metabolic diet is so wonderful as much it is that the anti-candida diets that I've seen just don't work.

In the area of diet the prescription to just eat whole foods of any kind would be superior to the low carbohydrate nonsense with the idea of starving the yeast.

I understand the logic behind the rule of thumb for the healing crisis that you describe yet I simply haven't found that to be the case in the folks that I've worked with.

Bob


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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Pam on November 28, 1998 at 16:15:15:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Robert McFerran on November 27, 1998 at 11:14:15:

Dear Bob and Walt,

This discussion interests me very much. It sounds like, with regard to candida, it's anybody's guess what will work. I have been away from the boards for a few days since my original post. The day after I posted, I got a vaginal yeast infection--my first one in the six weeks since I started taking Nystatin. I'm not sure what brought it on. Was it because I ate some fruit? Maybe, but it seems hard to believe. It sounds like nobody agrees. It sure would be nice if there was a simple answer :)

Anyway, on Wednesday (25th) I had blood drawn for the Candida Immune Complexes test at AAL. It took a lot of persistence, but my doctor finally agreed. I'll have results at the end of next week. I am also running the comprehensive parasitology and fecal sIgA tests through Great Smokies. In preparation, I have had to stop taking Nystatin and acidopholous. So, I have an active yeast infection, but my intestinal problems subsided immediately when I stopped the Nystatin. Other than local vaginal discomfort I'm feeling quite good. I'm just taking it one step at a time. I'll let you know if the lab tests shed any new light.

Regards,
Pam


Follow Ups:


Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 28, 1998 at 17:49:30:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Robert McFerran on November 27, 1998 at 11:14:15:

Dear Bob,

I know I can safely say that you have never seen me recommend an anti-candida diet as described in the literature. I agree that they are unnecessarily complex and do not work well at all. You will see me recommending Beth Loiselle, RD's book as the bible for this condition and it DOES work.

Have I EVER recommended "low carbohydrate"? (sigh)

Namaste` Walt



Follow Ups:


Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Robert McFerran on November 28, 1998 at 23:27:55:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Walt Stoll on November 28, 1998 at 17:49:30:

Walt,

I hope you know that I wasn't referring to you, rather Crooke, Trowbridge, et. al. -- basically anyone who has written a book on how to control yeast. Even Dr. Mansfield falls into this category. They ALL suggest low carbohydrate as the appropriate anti-yeast diet.

Your insight about whole foods (coupled with Beth's book) is truly unique in the area of dealing with yeast overload. The same goes for your insistence of the importance of skilled relaxation to resolve the leaky gut (to keep the C-RS from coming back). I don't know of any other author that has suggested the same.

Of course the above can be improved further. If you are going to eat whole foods you should also eat those that you are metabolically programmed for while eliminating your specific food allergens.


Bob




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Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 29, 1998 at 10:07:16:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Pam on November 28, 1998 at 16:15:15:

Dear Pam,

I don't want to let you get confused just because I am trying to be polite. It seems every time I try to soften what I know it helps no one.

SO, here it is unambiguously.

The trick for candida is being PURELY PERFECT at the elimination of refined carbohydrates. I also know that it is possible that 20 years from now we will be able to refine that "therapeutic diet" for candida even further. It is true that anything that improves the immune system will also HELP and some of those people will get rid of their candida because they are at the top of their "Bell Curve" for that elimination.

Right now, no one has anything that will reliably eliminate candida faster than dealing with the causes of the LGS (skilled relaxation and exercise), eating a perfect diet eliminating every trace of refined carbohydrates and taking something like Nystatin or Grapefruit Seed Extract properly. This is why I continue to recommend people not try this without having Beth Loiselle, RD's book at hand.

Good luck with your process. Walt




Re: Nystatin reactions

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 29, 1998 at 10:35:31:

In Reply to: Re: Nystatin reactions posted by Robert McFerran on November 28, 1998 at 23:27:55:

Hi, Bob.

As usual, once we get to the nitty gritty, we agree totally!

Namaste` to you, my friend, namaste` Walt




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