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WHY IS MY PROGRAM DANGEOUS? DR. STOLL?

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WHY IS MY PROGRAM DANGEOUS? DR. STOLL?

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 29, 2000 at 11:31:19:

Hi. I contacted Robert Mcferon via email because I heard that he was quite good at helping with various problems and he cured his own RA. I asked him to check out a website that explained the program I was on to eliminate my Candida/Leaky gut problem. He kindly did so. When he replied, he told me the program was dangerous at best. I don't understand why. If anyone has the time, could you check out the 4 phase program I am on and let me know what you think? It is a very interesting program and it makes sense to me. Go to www.health-truth.com and click on "Tour The Program" and it will take you through the 4 phases. I would appreciate any help that anyone can give me. I get scared when I think I am doing something to hurt myself and I have already invested a lot of time and money into it. Thanks a lot everyone!

Rich



Re: WHY IS MY PROGRAM DANGEOUS? DR. STOLL?

Posted by
Vince F on September 29, 2000 at 17:54:10:

In Reply to: WHY IS MY PROGRAM DANGEOUS? DR. STOLL? posted by Rich Gonci on September 29, 2000 at 11:31:19:

Rich,

I don't understand systemic infections or yeast that
aren't flu like so can't comment on them. I had a chemical
exposure that damaged/affected my whole system-s so think
it is different and just damaged or malfunctioning systems
in myself which I have found things that have helped
function to a point so I keep looking for pieces or helpers
that make me function better most likely compensating for
deficencies and nutrients I have taken that I either don't
absorb or utilize well and have to overload to get enough
maybe like prolotherapy does.

One thing I that has helped me a lot has been Zinc and it
seems to help circulation since it helped my legs not ache
after walking or when they got cold. I found that it also
helped all over aches from physical activity. I can take it
before hand and delay or eliminate the problems. In my
searching as to what it might be doing I came across info
from a german biochemist who I will remember the name soon
who claims that AIDS is a Zinc def. which doesn't allow O2 to get to
the muscles and tissues and that the oppurtunistic
infections that are Called AIDS Only when HIV is present
are fungal which happen when there is limited O2 and that
Zinc is needed for circulation and O2/lactic acid exchange.
Since it worked for my symptoms that felt like circulation
bacause of leg aches from walking or in the cold or the
other body aches from physical activity that could last for days And
a Dr claiming I had ME, Myalgic Encephylomyelits which he
said and showed me a study from Australia saying that red
blood cells get damaged, rigid and spherical and don't
circulate to very small capilaries feeding and cleansing
the muscles and brain. They thought all the chems we are
exposed to can cause it and they call it, Allergic to the
20th Century.

The Dr said they didn't know how to treat it and wouldn't
do a blood test to prove it which pissed me off since I
wanted Proof that that was my problem so I had to get clues
from other blood tests I had. Looking up different things
I read that Zinc was meeded in the outer membrane of the
red cells so I tried it and it helped greatly but only when
I take it and needed.

developing knee pains a friend told me to get Celebrex
but I didn't think I had arthritis since Cod oil helped and
got rid of sharp pains I had in my knees I had for a few yrs yrs
ago but I looked into it. They claimed they take it for
tendon and ligament damage that celebrex doesn't state but
they said their dr saw studies on that it does. I wasn't
sure what was wrong with my knees and didn't want to mask
a problem but then found out it was most likely weak thigh
muscles from a dr's site so started the exercises and they
were helping. Looking up Celebrex again I came across a
listing for James Coburn the actor who has RA. It just listed
when his movies were being shown. I searched His name and
got to an MSM site which he takes and swears is helping him.
I started trying it and I have 5 brands and each one helped
a different problem. One helped my sinuses and I don't have
to take sinus meds Or that MSM very often since that has
pretty much stoped. Another helped my knee aches, another
my muscle aches, and another has given me more staminaa.
Ester-C got me exercising and lifting weights.

The German biochemists name is. Stephan Lanka and I found
him looking up Peter Duesberg the virologist who doesn't buy
the AIDS/HIV connection. He thinks it is too many infections
and street and prescription drugs weakening the immune sys
allowing the 20 or so oppurtunistic diseases that they Call
AIDS to take hold.

VF



Forgot to mention

Posted by
Vince F on September 29, 2000 at 21:51:21:

In Reply to: Re: WHY IS MY PROGRAM DANGEOUS? DR. STOLL? posted by Vince F on September 29, 2000 at 17:54:10:

If you feel the program is working than why worry ?? Though
it is one thing for it to Make Sense and another for it to
do something. Maybe I have been lucky that some things I have
tried have worked fast or I found the right things but if
something doesn't work fast and show results I don't continue.
One reason is I wouldn't remember to even if it is claimed to help
what I have and Definetly if I didn't feel better. Some things
don't feel right so that is something I can't deal with. I
believe something that will help will make me feel better, not worse
even slightly. I feel that when I find a Right item I will
feel better and fast. Many say things Don't work that fast
but I have ound some and will keep looking for more. I feel
I would be wasting time, energy, and money if I didn't see
results pretty fast since there is no guarantee unless you
are sure of what you have and the treatment is proven.

VF



Thanks! Rockethealer? Dr. Stoll?

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 29, 2000 at 21:59:57:

In Reply to: Forgot to mention posted by Vince F on September 29, 2000 at 21:51:21:

Thanks for your comments. You are right though. If I feel it is working than why worry. It's just, I feel I am being told that there is only one way to deal with the problem and I am not doing that.

What I am supposedly doing wrong, is I am attempting to kill and remove the candida without curing the leaky gut first. but, I am now doing both together so that should be a little better. From what I gather, candida only worsens leaky gut anyway so in order to FULLY heal it, candida cannot be there. So, I am compromizing and doing both together.

Rockethealer or Walt, what do you think of this particular program? I am harping on this issue so much because it takes almost a year to get though all 4 phases so I do not want to waste time if it isn't going to work. The 4 phases are clearly explained at www.health-truth.com at "Tour The Program". If you have time, I would greatfully appreciate it. Again, thanks for your comments Vince

Rich



Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read!

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on September 29, 2000 at 23:24:10:

In Reply to: Thanks! Rockethealer? Dr. Stoll? posted by Rich Gonci on September 29, 2000 at 21:59:57:

Rich:

I'm reading over what you suggested, but it's a LONG read. I finally printed it out to read at my leisure, rather than straining to read it on the screen with my bifocals. I'll get back with some comments/whatever in a day or so.

I did run into some "interesting" stuff in there about which vitamins "promote" candida growth. I need to re-read that part more slowly to understand it and comment on it better. As always, some things that we can do help some problems and hurt others. But some things, like SR, seem to always help.

RHJ++



Why don't you ask the person who made the comment??

Posted by Wondering on September 29, 2000 at 23:58:58:

In Reply to: WHY IS MY PROGRAM DANGEOUS? DR. STOLL? posted by Rich Gonci on September 29, 2000 at 11:31:19:

Hi Rich,

I'm wondering why you don't ask Robert McFerran about his own comment?

You will get a whole bunch of different answers here to a question that really only Robert can answer.

How can Dr. Stoll or anyone else explain another's comment?

Robert's protocol works for those who can follow it. You can read in the archives here about that. It's not easy, though, but seems a bit easier and less complicated than your program and with less pills, powders and liquids. (maybe cheaper then?)

There is no easy, quick way to cure LGS and/or candida. YOU seem sold on your program, so why not stick with it? If something doesn't feel right, you need to study for yourself other options and see how they stack up. Start reading the archives here to understand more and see where that takes you. Yes, there is a lot of info, but if you want to learn, you have to read it.




Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read!

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 09:49:05:

In Reply to: Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read! posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on September 29, 2000 at 23:24:10:

Thanks a lot Rockethealer, I know it's quite long but interesting too. When you talk about the vitamins promoting candida, it's not exactly like that. What he is saying, is that certain vitamins or antioxidants can prevent antifungals from killing the yeast. Actually, according to his view, there are vitamins that can promote yeast proliferation. He says that the vitamin B family can do this because yeast use the B's in their metabolism. This insn't to say that vitamin B's promote the growth of yeast in normal individuals. This is to say, instead, that once yeast takes hold, vitamin B's can keep them satisfied.

I appreciate you looking through this for me. I look foward to any comments you have

Rich



Re: Why don't you ask the person who made the comment??

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 10:00:57:

In Reply to: Why don't you ask the person who made the comment?? posted by Wondering on September 29, 2000 at 23:58:58:

I asked him why he thought that and he never wrote back. Not my fault. he left me hanging with that comment. It's quite easy for someone else to step in and comment on the same thing. If I asked you why jumping out of a plane without a parachute was dangerous, I hope I would get the same answers from 5 other people. He made it sound like it was OBVIOUS that there was something wrong here. Being sold on the program has absolutely nothing to do with it. Time invested/money spent has everything to do with it.

Anyway, I tried an elimination diet using the same foods that was recommended in the archives. There was no change at all. I did it completely right as I pay great attention to detail. Soon after, I went to this doctor that told me if you have candida, the symptoms mimic that of food intolerance so how can you run an effective elimination diet? So, I started on his program immediately. Obviously he was right because I saw no improvement. Next, I got a food allergy profile and tried a diet based on all the non-reactive foods. This showed no improvement. So, to my way of thinking, the candida needs to be eliminated first so I can run an effective elimination diet. I am just waiting for someone ELSE to tell me why this is dangerous. I go with the numbers!



Re: Why don't you ask the person who made the comment??

Posted by jj on September 30, 2000 at 12:36:35:

In Reply to: Re: Why don't you ask the person who made the comment?? posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 10:00:57:

i tried this guy's "program" it makes sense, but it didnt do a thing for me and cost a fortune.im sure he had some success with patients. there are a bunch of "programs" from doctors who say they have a great cure rate, ive tried a ton of them and went broke and got about 60% better most of them did nothing.i feel the best approach, is to do walts stuff( its free and wont hurt you) and go to an md who knows about candida and get diflucan or nystatin, get your mercury fillings out by the right dentist( who uses a dam and oxygen mask and knows how to take them out properly)also take supplements for your adrenals and hope for the best.this is the cheapest way to go and any "program" i have ever seen doesnt do more. herbs and such scare me 1)you dont know what your getting 2)they are not strong enough to work well 3) even if they arent tainted who knows what that goofy stuff is doing to your body.



Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read! (Archive in candida.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 30, 2000 at 16:16:56:

In Reply to: Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read! posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 09:49:05:

Hi, Rich.

AH, but the question is whether the B vitamins help the person's cells more or less than they help the candida--isn't it? Candida uses water too but few people would suggest that you stop drinking water.

I think this is a situation of a "little knowledge being a dangerous thing".

By far the most powerful weapon you have against candida is a normally functioning bodymind. Aim for that and you can't go wrong.

Walt



Please tell me about your experience

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 16:56:04:

In Reply to: Re: Why don't you ask the person who made the comment?? posted by jj on September 30, 2000 at 12:36:35:

Please, Tell me the reason you went to him and what he did for you. I am curious why the "program" did not work. I do appreciate your comments but, I don't think it makes sense to the blindly apply herbs, vitamins or anything without following up on Lab tests which is the reason I am going to him. So, for me, I don't think I could "Take something for the adrenals and hope for the best". I perfectly see where you are coming from. Please tell me more about your experience



Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read! (Archive in candida.)

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 17:00:57:

In Reply to: Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read! (Archive in candida.) posted by Walt Stoll on September 30, 2000 at 16:16:56:

Your answers are brief yet powerful. I am currently doing the SR 2 times a day as recommended but I think it would be best not to stop there. I can do all the SR in the world but if I continue to eat a poor diet, not support my body systems, and let candida run a muck, I will never get better right? My prime objective is to heal the leaky gut and get rid of the candida. If you were in my position, what steps would you take to get this job done. No doubt that SR is a first step being that I am a fast-paced, stressed out kind of guy, but where would you go from there. Thanks for all your help!

Rich



Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go

Posted by Paulette on September 30, 2000 at 17:13:57:

In Reply to: Re: I started reading it over, but it's a LONG read! (Archive in candida.) posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 17:00:57:


Hi, Rich

I completed the HCP with Dr Stoll back in January and wanted to do everything Now! The number one thing he advised me to do was SR since I've been a Lifetime Total Body Bracing person. There was the monkey mind and everything that went along with it. Very slowly was I able to start seeing results. Mainly, because I tend not to listen and stubborn as a mull at times.

The slow results were enough for me to find a Rolfer and start going through the sessions. In my case, it's a Soma/Rolfer and I've gone through seven sessions so far. The remaining three will be realized when I'm able to scare up the time and funds. (currently unemployed, so need to save)

Currently working on the diet and not unintentionally sabotaging my efforts. Hang in there with the SR, it will start showing results. By that time there just might be a few less problems to take care of at that time. Believe me, I wanted the same thing and that's what I was told. As soon as I started listening is when it all started turning around from the edge of the cliff.

Take Care Of Yourself

Paulette



Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 17:56:09:

In Reply to: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go posted by Paulette on September 30, 2000 at 17:13:57:

Thanks Paulette, I appreciate the comments. I am just sick and tired of watching all my friends be in great health and at their ideal weight even though they are eating the crappiest diet, not exercising, and are as stressed out as me. Here I am, watching what I eat, exercising, relaxing, and I am still the sickest person at my age in this whole town. I want to believe that SR will help but I don't think I am ignorant to belive that it will a cure-all.

Walt keeps mentioning how unless the cuase of LGS is found and dealt with, it will never go away and the accompanying symptoms. The trick is, how on earth do I figure out how I go this way.

Rich



Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go

Posted by Paulette on September 30, 2000 at 18:15:47:

In Reply to: Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 17:56:09:


Hi, Rich

Not saying SR is a "cure all", just a very good starting point. You've no idea how long I fought doing the SR, thinking, Yeah right if I believe this one you'll tell me another. As soon as I put down some of my defenses and and did SR seriously, is the only time any results started to show. I know how it is to feel tired of being sick and tired! My friends and family seem to eat what ever they want, whenever they want and do what they want. Just like the little pink rabbit keep going and going and going!
grrr Remember, they're getting closer and closer to the edge of the cliff and will need to do whatever it takes to back away from that cliff. A few of my family members are starting to listen to me as well. My dad has been telling me a lot of things through the years and I put it away for safe keeping. (out the other ear)

In order to resolve my illnesses I'm doing SR and still having to depend on conventional medicine as well. I'm seeing a sharp decline of me having to go through conventional doctors. My doctors are surprised in many cases as to how rapidly I've healed and very happy to release me from their care. I tell me them and a few just kind of shake their heads. The dentist was very happy to have me tell him how I was able to avoid "gum surgery" by increasing my vitamin "C" intake. He wrote it down on his clip board for himself. Sure hope he'll tell his other patients as well.

Hang in there

Take Care Of Yourself

Paulette



Thanks very much Pauline. LGS/CR-S ANYONE?

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 18:45:24:

In Reply to: Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go posted by Paulette on September 30, 2000 at 18:15:47:

okay! What i am getting from this, is that SR probably has healing abilities in and of itself but more importantly, it helps the other things you are doing work better. So my quesiton is, for whoever can answer it, is, what do I do to get rid of the candida/leaky gut (in ADDITION to the SR)? Thanks so much for your post. I appreciate it very much.

I looked through every single post in the LGS site. I read every single one and it took all day. I walked away with one thing and one thing only: SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,SR,
okay, I pretty much got that out of my system. I was expecting to see at least some complimentry therapies to speed things up. I have been dealing with this for 4 years and have been told to go to a conventional doctor to "fix" it. I flat out refused! I understand that it takes a while to get this way and there is no quick fix to make it all better but there has to be SOMETHING besides chill'n out on SR to help the situation. I am doing the SR two times a day. I am even putting a hot pack on my abdomen to really get the blood moving but I really need to do something on the nutritional side. Any thoughts?

Rich



Re: Please tell me about your experience

Posted by jj on September 30, 2000 at 19:16:11:

In Reply to: Please tell me about your experience posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 16:56:04:

every doctor i went to gave me tests including this guy - they showed the mercury was out of my system(i took dmsa, then hair and urine tests), the candida was gone (diflucan, herbs then great smokies stool tests) etc and i still felt like crap . i personally dont think there are any reliable tests out there for this stuff yet, and i really dont think the tests matter much, and i dont think its really that hard to get out candida,mercury etc.after i took the reigns i ended up feeling better( the only real test!)but not totally well, i believe thats because the adrenal/hypothalumus/pituitary triad stays out of whack even though the poisons are out, i then read more and took dhea and adrenal extracts and eventually felt pretty good, walts stuff did the most good! , again i dont feel any tests are good enough to show progress except the test of "do you feel better" a lot of these doctors have great intentions, but they take your money( and alot of it) by trying to make a science out of what still is a very unsophisticated art.you'd do better reading more and being your "own " doctor. just my opinion, no doctor , holistic or conventional ever helped me much, i helped myself much more.you probably know as much as they do , i feel i know more.let me know how you do , financially and healthwise, maybe this will work for you.



Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go

Posted by jj on September 30, 2000 at 19:30:42:

In Reply to: Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go posted by Paulette on September 30, 2000 at 18:15:47:

one other thing rich, you sound like me a few years ago. i feel for you , but, you are not the only one in the world going through this.i was worse off. you are not calm. you must calm down you're probaly riled up even when you think your not.s/r,when you do it right, heals the gut and rests your glands then the healing startsits not voodoo either its proven medical fact. it takes a damn long time.you can try other stuff too but dont worry about finding the "correct" answer or doctor. I'll bet i have done 3 times as much research and spent much more $$than you and all i found out was that there arent ANY doctors who have this mastered beyond what walt is saying,even though they put you on this program and that,and there is no magic bullet get his book and read it, do his three things religiously for a long time and try a few things i have recommended on the side.



To Rich, a few thoughts (Doc Kim, comments?)

Posted by KMD on September 30, 2000 at 20:39:17:

In Reply to: Thanks very much Pauline. LGS/CR-S ANYONE? posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 18:45:24:

Hi Rich,

It is nice to see someone who actually hangs around here long enough to really try to learn and change. I don't have "the answer", and I haven't read the website you posted. BUT, I was wondering if you have been to a chiropractor, especially one who is an expert in doing applied kinesiology? It seems to me that this is what I would do in your situation (in fact, it IS what I am doing for my son.) A good chiro who does AK could really find out what your body is saying!



Rich, please read this...

Posted by
trish on September 30, 2000 at 22:59:43:

In Reply to: Re: Why don't you ask the person who made the comment?? posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 10:00:57:

Rich,

I am trish, Robert McFerran's fiancee. I have been lurking here for some time, without the resources to really participate as I have in the past.

I was alarmed when I saw that Bob didn't answer your question to your satisfaction, so I asked him what happened.

First of all, he NEVER SAID YOUR PROGRAM WAS DANGEROUS.

Second of all, he gave you his phone number to call and discuss this and so far you haven't taken him up on that. Twice you said you would, but have not so far.

He did not leave you hanging as you said, Rich.

Robert would never write this, but I will...He hates complaining about stuff. He's disabled from his RA but still, he gives his all to those who ask and he gives even more to those who will listen and follow what he's learned so far.

So, screw you with "it's not my fault" All of us on this board have heard that for ever....

Bob gets tons of emails from people like you who just want confirmations, or often just want someone to help them rather than help themselves...he answers all of them.

Usually, though they don't come back here on this board to badmouth him.

What do you want Rich?

trish



Re: Rich, please read this...

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 23:48:34:

In Reply to: Rich, please read this... posted by trish on September 30, 2000 at 22:59:43:

<Regards,

Bob>>

Read it for yourself. I'm sorry, he didn't say dangerous, he said harmful. Sorry, Trish, but I didn't have my Thesaurous with me when I wrote it. I don't appreciate you jumping in to this without knowing all the facts. You sound more like his mother than his fiance. Look,...Trish is it, You have a lot of nerve talking to me like that. I will express my opinion in any way I see fit. I didn't badmouth anyone. I simply said that he said my program was dangerous and I wanted to know why. I was going to ask him why, but he said he didn't want to argue his position so I wasn't left that option. I said that he didn't tell me on the board as a short cut to ask for someone elses opinon on the program. It's no big deal. You are acting like I just shot the guy in the back. Relax. You should practice some SERIOUS SR!!!!

You have it all wrong about me. You really pissed me off when you were implying that I don't want to help myself. THAT'S ALL I HAVE BEEN DOING EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR 4 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am 25 years old and should't be in this position. Do you know how many doctors I have been to? Even ones that "had all the answers". I have wasted tons of time and energy on ineffective programs that were promised to do wonders. I do not have the time or the patience to "take someone's word for it" I don't care who they are. I want to know what is going to be involved and what is going to be expected and I want to know why they feel it is going to work. I have been asked several times to "Give me a call to talk about it". That's usally when the person tries to pressure me into getting involved in something that I don't know if I am ready for yet and usually costs a good deal of money. This is why I did not call him. It has happened many times and the outcome is the same. You said it best Trish, "What do you want to do" That's usually what is asked of me after about 2 minutes on the phone. How was I supposed to know that he helps people out of the goodness of his heart? I was never given this info and to be honest, how can you blame me, this type of help is unheard of. So, you see, this is all a misunderstanding. Go back to the posts I wrote and quote one line where I badmouthed him. Besides, you say he is still stricken with RA. Then why on earth would I want to follow his advice? Thanks Trish, you just saved me a heck of a lot of time and energy. Goodbye!

Rich




Re: Please tell me about your experience

Posted by
Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 23:51:06:

In Reply to: Re: Please tell me about your experience posted by jj on September 30, 2000 at 19:16:11:

Thanks for your comments. I will take them into serious consideration. :)

Rich



Rich - Re: your program

Posted by Rosemarie on September 30, 2000 at 23:57:18:

In Reply to: Re: Rich You Sound Like Me Back in January 2000! Go, Go, Go posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 17:56:09:

Rich,

I DID go to the website http://www.health-truth.com/TourProgram and and read the program - though probably not quite as thoroughly as you did. Let me first state that I have never had candida and know nothing about its treatment aside from whatI've read on this BB. So I can't give you any pointers for that. And of course, I'm not a doctor. But I would like to say a few things that impressed me about the program.

The program is very comprehensive and seems to cover just about everything to do with getting and staying well. And I can see why it's expensive. I'm familiar with most of what he's talking about - though not in the context of candida. I mean I just know about most of this stuff and have done some myself.

Phase III states that there are two different kinds of metabolism - fast and slow - and explains each one. Since this concept of metabolism differs from Robert McFerran's I can understand why he was not too favorable with it. I have no idea which concept works best. Each probably works for some people some of the time.

Phase IV has a very interesting description on how to do the Vitamin C flush to bowel tolerance. The instructions are a little different from what I have read in the past, but make perfect sense and if I ever do it, this is the one I'll try. (I bookmarked it for future use.)

(note: I will try to paste this section here for others to read without having to go to the site - however if it doesn't "take" as has happened to me in the past, please go to the above website, Phase IV half way down on the page and read for yourself.)

"Sometimes on Phase IV someone needs to do what we call a Vitamin C flush. A Vitamin C flush gives the system very, very high doses of Vitamin C to the point where it totally saturates the system, as part of bringing the immune system up. A Vitamin C flush is described in written material given to you, but there are also some additional things you should know about it.

Essentially, when you're doing a Vitamin C flush you're taking Vitamin C every hour, and you're recording the amount that you're taking. You're going to make a note of when you start developing a loose stool or diarrhea. If someone's taking 1000 mg of Vitamin C every hour for six hours, and at that point they have loose stools or diarrhea, that was 6000 mg of Vitamin C that was consumed. We then do a little simple arithmetic and arrive at the fact that was 6000 mg, and then subtract 1000 mg, which would give you 5000 mg. What you would then do is every three hours take 5000 mg. It doesn't make any difference that it took six hours to have that occur; what we're concerned about is taking this same dose that produced the loose stool or diarrhea--regardless of how many hours it took to accomplish that--every three hours.

Another example would be if someone took 1000 mg for twelve hours, which would obviously be 12,000 mg. We would then subtract 1000 mg, we have 11,000, and we're going to take that dose every three hours.

The person would continue to take this dose every three hours until a loose stool or diarrhea occurred again. If someone had done this for two days, let's say, taking this 11,000 mg dose every three hours, what they would do is now cut it down to 10,000 mg every three hours. And if they still had a loose stool or diarrhea they would cut it down to 9,000 mg. So every three hours they're cutting the dose down by 1000 to the point where they're not getting any loose stools or diarrhea. They would just continue this until their next appointment, or until they were told directly to discontinue this as far as their program. This is called the Vitamin C flush."

Note: there are a few other explanations concerning this, like what Vitamin C is best,etc. They also mention Vitamin A Flushes (using water soluable vitamin A), echinacea flushes, etc. Interesting!!!

Rich, regarding your question about the effectiveness of this program, did you ask them for any references from other people who have tried this program. And have you had a chance to actually talk with any of them. That might help.

I doubt if Dr. Stoll has the time to go over this lengthy program, so you'll just have to read his approach and then compare it to yours and make a decision. Once you decide on a course of action, you will be wise to put your trust into it and concentrate on getting well - having faith that it will work. Doubt will interfere with your progress!

I hope this helps some. Seems like everyone was just talking around your question.

Good luck!
Rosemarie



Re: Rich, please read this...

Posted by
trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:17:05:

In Reply to: Re: Rich, please read this... posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 23:48:34:

Rich,

You badmouthed Bob...I don't know what they call that where you come from.. For your information, I've gotten over candida and chronic fatigue and LGS....and I've helped tons of people here do the same.

And frankly, I don't give a shit how many doctors you've been to... I went to a few before I found my way. So you're a 25 year old asshole....you asked Bob a question and didn't want to hear the answer so you came back here looking for support for what you WANTED to hear. Keep on with that and you'll get where you've always gotten.

YOU are an alarmist, Rich... Get over yourself. You've started all these threads of converations about YOU to determine if your way is best. Don't you have any confidence?

If you read the archives, this has all been discussed here before....you are nothing new. Figure it out for yourself...make a decision for once in your life. Thanks for your support of Bob and me, too.

trish




I DO practic serious SR...

Posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:27:53:

In Reply to: Re: Rich, please read this... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:17:05:

that's one reason I HATE misinformation....try it yourself and you'll understand...
trish



Just one more thing, Rich...

Posted by
trish on October 01, 2000 at 10:23:47:

In Reply to: Re: Rich, please read this... posted by Rich Gonci on September 30, 2000 at 23:48:34:

You wrote:

"That's usally when the person tries to pressure me into getting involved in something that I don't know if I am ready for yet and usually costs a good deal of money. This is why I did not call him. It has happened many times and the outcome is the same. You said it best Trish, "What do you want to do" That's usually what is asked of me after about 2 minutes on the phone. How was I supposed to know that he helps people out of the goodness of his heart? I was never given this info and to be honest, how can you blame me, this type of help is unheard of. So, you see, this is all a misunderstanding. Go back to the posts I wrote and quote one line where I badmouthed him. Besides, you say he is still stricken with RA. Then why on earth would I want to follow his advice? Thanks Trish, you just saved me a heck of a lot of time and energy. Goodbye!"

Robert did not pressure you, did he? And yes, you badmouthed him by misquoting him and then saying that he left you hanging. And yes, he does help people out of the goodness of his heart - and although he has stopped participating full time here, he still gets dozens of phone calls and emails every week from people all over the world who need help, and he gladly helps those who want to work to get better. He's currently helping someone from Australia and another from France! They spend their dime to call him when they need clarification on stuff because he knows what he's talking about.

Now you put words in my mouth - I NEVER said he was still stricken with RA. I said he was disabled...His disease hit him hard and did permanent damage to his joints. You see, there was nobody like him to guide him through the process he finally found on his own through extensive research and a lot of hard work and study. All he had was allopathy. Others have more options because of his work and he shares his knowledge for free.

So I wish you luck finding someone to tell you what you want to hear. If anything at least I saved Bob some time.
trish



I'm done stooping to your level!!!!!!!

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 11:16:53:

In Reply to: I DO practic serious SR... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:27:53:

I am finished with your over reactions. Why should I get upset? You are talking out of your ass. Go ahead little girl, keep using grown up words and profanity at me. Where is that going to get you? Exactly! Nowhere. You have taken a little, insignificant sentance, and have turned it into a serious over reaction. Typical of a little girl like you! Keep talking like that I will come over there and wash your dirty mouth out with soap! Keep talking like an adolecent and I'll keep treating you like one and I have you right where I want you. You are steaming out of both ears and for what, because I said one little indignificant remark which wasn;t even a bad remark. In fact, when I emailed him, all I kept saying was all the good things I was hearing about him so all this REALLY IS a big misunderstanding but you are too pig-headed and violent to get past that. The only reason I didn't contact him was because he said he did't have time and had a lot of people to deal with. I took that as a sales pressure. I DIDN'T KNOW HEW WASN'T A DOCTOR SO GET OFF MY BACK!!!!!!!!

Now, that I have gotten that off my chest. I am ready to talk level with you but I honestly don't think you an handle it. Anway, her goes.

I can see how you could over react. After all, here's a guy who just genuinely wants to help people and everyone that knows him recogonizes that. So you see someone not understanding this or just thinking he doesn't give a shit so you flip! Perfectly uinderstandable. I am sorry that you thought that way about me. Anyone that knows me would tell you the exact opposite of what you are saying about me. I seem to be able to help other people but I can't help myself. I helped 2 people cure their chronic pain and 3 people cure an ulcer. These might not be significant to you but I did it on my own time and even bought the things they would need myself. So I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY the kind of person he is. I bet that he probably tries to help anyone that is on the other end of the phone and is patient with each and every one. I understand. But you let yourself get carried away on one little sentance that doesn;t mean as much as you want it to. I didn't know what I know now. If you can understand that, maybe you will stop cursing that me like that. I have a hard time dealing with arguments like that because I am the same way. You get in my face and I am right back in yours without budging. This conversation wil go nowhere if we keep that up. This is as straight as I can be. I am not as lucky as you. You got cured rather quickly. Good for you. But to tell me that because I am not cured already that means that I am not trying or that I am looking for the easy way out. That comment upset me more than anything. And is that what Robert taught you to do? Attack people's short-comings. Well good for you because you did it well. I have ALWAYS told anyone that has crossed my path that there is no easy way out of a health problem and you need to get to the root cause of it. I have Candida Tropicalis. This is the fungal form of candida that penetrates the intestines and is very difficult to get eliminate. Maybe you had an easier strain. That doesn't mean I am not trying. I have also had this LGS since at least 20 years old and it has progressed and progressed. It is a very aggressive thing and I don't know how to judge what is working and what isn't because symptoms are going away so slowly and I am not going to sit here and do nothing or just be coaxed into getting involved with something that I know nothing about. I would rather get some opionions on what I am already doing. Isn't that what this board is for? I guess not according to you because you say "we have heard all this before". So what does that mean, if you are scared, or sick, or not cured yet, don't come here. That's what I get out of it. So fine, I won't come back here if that will make you feel better. Which I think it will from the type of person you come off being. Nobody teaches you how to deal with a chronic illness I don't care HOW MANY times you have heard it. You are hearing it again. Get used to it. Lot's of people are fed up with their illness and just want it gone already. It's very easy to let you judgement get in the way of what's right because of how you feel 24 hours a day 7 days a week but you wouldn't know anything about that. You are cured. You are perfect. You are Robert's finace so you are the best. Sorry to dissapoint you. i'm getting upset again so this conversation is done.

Rich :(




I appreciate you!

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 11:26:26:

In Reply to: Rich - Re: your program posted by Rosemarie on September 30, 2000 at 23:57:18:

I really appreciate you going to see it and I really appreciate your comments. I know, I know, it really IS too long. Thanks for doing it anyway. I did ask for references. They were all sucess stories. Then there was that one guy on this board that said he did nothing for him but I guess that happend anywhere you go.

You bring up an interesting point with the fast and slow metabolism. THere is actually a mixed metabolism too. I personally believe that the diets that Robert advocates are identical to these. They are just being called different. The fast metabolism is the hunter-gatherer, the slow metabolism is the agraculturist and the mixed metabolism is the mixed diet that Robert talks about. I know because the food choices are identical to eachbother. I guess he didn't pick up on that.

The reason I am asking for so many people's opinions is that, I figure, someone has had to have been actually CURED of some of these things. I haven't heard one single sucess story on erradicating candida and leaky gut. If I did, I might feel a little more confident but it's hard when everyone around is asking the same questions, but nobody has any answers. I keep getting refered to the glossary and archives but I don't feel there is anything there of any importance except for the SR. I am doing it 2 times a day but it won't cure anything. It will only help. Anway, thanks for your post and if anything else pops in there, let me know. Thanks for your kindness.

Rich :)



Thanks a lot!

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 11:31:53:

In Reply to: To Rich, a few thoughts (Doc Kim, comments?) posted by KMD on September 30, 2000 at 20:39:17:

Yes, I am seeing a chiropractor weekly but he doesn't do the muscle testing. My problem is, I know too much and I listen to too many people so I don't know what to do. I was trying out NAET which is an allergy elimination technique but it would take about a billion years to get through because it only treats one food or inhalent per week and I have like 70 foods to go through. So, I am looking for a slightly quicker way. Don't think I will find it though. Have you heard of the Jaffe-Mellor Technique? This uses muscle testing but has a different objective. This technique re-balances the immune system and allergy elimination isn't then necessary. I am thinking of going for that but not sure. Thanks again.

Rich :)



Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again

Posted by KMD on October 01, 2000 at 13:13:41:

In Reply to: Thanks a lot! posted by Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 11:31:53:

Hi Rich,

I haven't heard of the Jaffe-Mellor technique, but I saw your inquiring post about it above. I hope you get some feedback on it, as it sounds promising. Perhaps Walt or Doc Kim know if the technique. Since you say it uses muscle testing I am even more intrigued with it. Did you see the string I started within the last 2 days that had several replies between me and Doc Kim and Walt? It was about my son's TMJ and our first visit taking him to a chiropractor who did AK. You might find it interesting.

I have heard of the NAET, but didn't realize that you could only eliminate one food allergy per week. Even at that, tho' it seem a billion years, 70 weeks would be just over a year long (grin).

I wish I could help you more, but I am in the learning phases myself. I am learning a lot of course, due to co-authoring Walt's next book with him. I can tell you that there are a few things I think I would do if I were in your shoes. In addition to all you are doing, I would find a chiropractor who does AK and see what you learn. My son's chiro did the initial AK in the first visit, and the cost was included (no extra). Also, if you are so inclined, a gifted psychic may be able to provide some insight. In addition, I would practice positive affirmations daily. In doing this, you affirm that you are well, you state it repeatedly, and you visualize it. This will go a long way toward your healing. There are also companies who design tapes and CD's for this purpose, I'm not sure if they are subliminal messages or auditory. I have heard they have been successful. Of course, no one thing will work for every single individual.

If you are having trouble with SR (and I'm not saying that you are), you may want to consider rolfing or the massage series.

Rich, if there's any way possible, try not to focus so heavily on your illness. According to my belief, that will perpetuate the problem. Instead, focus on the good and constantly affirm to yourself whenever you have the opportunity: "I am better today than I was yesterday." "I feel wonderful." "My body is winning over the candida." and anything else you can think of that is positive.



Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 13:43:26:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again posted by KMD on October 01, 2000 at 13:13:41:

That's probably the best advice I have ever heard you are right 100%. You have me pinned. I am a constant worrier. The sr IS difficult for me but I am working at it. It's hard to stop the racing thoughts that constantly bombard me but with practice, it will come.

My thing is, I need to know that I am taking the right steps toward health and if I know that I am doing the right things, it's easier to let go and go about my life. It's just, things are coming back very slowly. What I have accomplished so far, on my own, is I have eliminated my energy drops after eating. I have eliminated chronic fatigue. I have improved joint mobility and strength even know i still hurt. Now, I am starting to notice that my digestion is improving. If I avoid processed foods, poor food combinations, too many raw foods, and take digestive enzymes, I have practically no symptoms. But, if I stop doing that, the stomach problems will come back so I ask myself, am I really getting to the bottom of it or am I just a really good symptoms supresser? I don't know. I am rambling now. I look back 2 years ago when this stuff hit me hard and I have definitely come a long way, but I am a perfectionist by nature. This is my downfall. I'm glad you understand and I am going to follow your advice.

Rich :) :) :)



This is way out of line, Trish!

Posted by disgusted old lurker on October 01, 2000 at 15:17:41:

In Reply to: Re: Rich, please read this... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:17:05:

Since when was swearing at someone in pain acceptable behavior? That is childish, defensive, mean, and RUUUUUUDE! You might try compassion practice as the fourth leg of your wellness stool. Get off that high horse before you get a nosebleed from the altitude sickness.

Rich, just have a good laugh. You didn't deserve the roasting.



Rich, something to think about...

Posted by KMD on October 01, 2000 at 15:55:43:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again posted by Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 13:43:26:

Hi Rich,

Glad I was able to help. I'm a perfectionist too, but only about certain things -- not about my health. Hmm, maybe I should become a perfectionist about my health!

You HAVE come a long way. I think the digestive symptoms you are experiencing when you don't follow your protocol are normal for someone who has made changes for the better. For example, people who go on the PWFD (Perfect Whole Foods Diet) and follow it EXACTLY, will have terrible reactions if they slip up and accidentally get even minute quantities of sugar in their system one time. This reaction will happen usually in the first 6 months. THEN, the body loses its sensitivity reaction and things normalize so that you can handle traces once again. It is like your body re-sets. So, if you are having no symptoms when you eat a certain way and take enzymes, I would say that you should continue to do that faithfully for 6-12 months. Then, test to see if you can get away with something and see if you have symptoms. I bet at that point you won't.

Take me for an example. I had all these bizarre symptoms, one of them being left-sided excruciating headaches. I wasn't able to figure out what was triggering them at first. I kept making changes to improve my health. I tried the PWFD but didn't have perfect willpower although my diet is about 80% improved. I stopped taking anti-inflammatory medications. I had the massage series done. I'm getting better and better at SR. I exercise more. I gave up my FAVORITE drink - Coke. I couldn't go a day without drinking Coke for years. So, I hadn't had any for quite some time, then when stress hit I had one. It tasted bad for one thing (I'd lost my taste for it), and for another thing, I got an instant headache! Perhaps in a year if I keep up my wellness, if I should happen to have a Coke at that time it wouldn't affect me at all...

Rich, anyone who has been able to eliminate chronic fatigue MUST be doing something right! :o)





Re: This is way out of line, Trish!

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 17:35:07:

In Reply to: This is way out of line, Trish! posted by disgusted old lurker on October 01, 2000 at 15:17:41:

Thanks you for your comments. I try to take things with a grain of salt but it doesn't always work. I should know better than to get suckered into an arguement. Thanks! :)

Rich



Your'e the best :)

Posted by
Rich on October 01, 2000 at 17:41:05:

In Reply to: Rich, something to think about... posted by KMD on October 01, 2000 at 15:55:43:

That makes a ton of sense. Maybe I just need to let my body continue to be symptom-free for a while. Then, maybe it will stay that way. I feel much better now, thanks! I am getting weekly messages also. Then I go for my chiropractic adjustment. This definitely helps my pain and mobility. I don't want to come off like some disabled person. I'm not. In fact, I played 2 hours of soccer today with some friends. I am just in CONTSANT pain and have CONSTANT other symptoms. ALthough I can go through my day with them, they start to gnau away at your body/mind/and soul. Thanks for all your words. They have helped more than most doctors. :)

Rich



Re: I DO practic serious SR...

Posted by Huh? on October 01, 2000 at 17:52:26:

In Reply to: I DO practic serious SR... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:27:53:

Is that why you're so calm and relaxed? Impressive.



Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again

Posted by
Vince F on October 01, 2000 at 22:00:15:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again posted by Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 13:43:26:

Rich,

Maybe I missed it but where are your pains ??


VF



Rich, something different to think about

Posted by Rosemarie on October 01, 2000 at 23:20:36:

In Reply to: I'm done stooping to your level!!!!!!! posted by Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 11:16:53:

Rich,

Please listen for a minute: Your health will not get better unless you drop the anger! Not just at Trish but at yourself (your illness) and people that "cross" you.

We all know that thoughts produce emotions - good and bad. And those emotions can affect our bodies in a negative or positive way. So it's to our advantage to be able to control our thoughts.

There are meditation exercises that teach you how to sit still and "watch" your thoughts -dispassionately - like a camera taking in a scene or a river floating by. This is NOT easy because your mind will always try to pull you into a thought stream. It's what Dr. Stoll likes to call "monkey mind".

With practice you will learn to let go of emotions when someone upsets you. No, you don't suppress your anger - you let it go! You speak up only when it's important - but quietly, and WITHOUT anger or resentment stating your point. You don't keep arguing just to have that last word. It won't be important to you any more.

Guy Finley has an excellent book that describes this process in his book "The Secret of Letting Go". (www.guyfinley.com).

And Roy Masters in his meditation exercise (free version on his website www.fhu.com) basically teaches you to sit still and concentrate on your hands - as this helps you stay in the "now" and not get lost in your thougths (remember thoughts produce emotions....). You might even give Roy a call on his radio program some evening. He has been giving advice on the radio for 40 years. You can access his live radio programs from his site as well as his archives there.

Last, the book "The Relaxation & Stress Reduction Workbook" by Davis, Eshelman and McKay, describes another version of this particular meditation on page 53 titled: "Letting Go of Thoughts".

I can tell you this works. I used to be such an emotional person full of anxiety and self doubt - most of my life (had a very emotional mother). Once I recognised the connection I was able to change. But remember, this is not a quick fix but an on-going process - a way of life "to be in the moment" and see things for what they truly are and not what you think they are.

To be in control of your emotions (instead of your emotions controlling you!) and the ensuing calmness is a wonderful thing! And good for your health and well being!

Think about it - Give it a try. Your body will thank you for it!

Rosemarie



okay, will do

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 23:35:37:

In Reply to: Rich, something different to think about posted by Rosemarie on October 01, 2000 at 23:20:36:

Thanks for your thorough post explaining these techniques. I will try as my personality gets me in trouble when people attack me. You know she shouldn't have flipped out on me anyway but,.......what's the use..It's a loosing battle. The only one that gets hurt is me. Thanks for the top notch advice.

Rich :)



Every joint in my body

Posted by
Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 23:38:45:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks a lot! --To Rich again posted by Vince F on October 01, 2000 at 22:00:15:

Basically, every joint in my body. My fingers hurt the most which really sucks because I am a conert pianist and have not been able to play up to my full potential. It's not easy to play a Liszt concerto with swollen fingers. The rest of my joints hurt too though. Also, the connective tissue is staring to deteriorate and I am getting hypermobile. I have learned so much and I can't help myself. Shame

Rich :(



Re: okay, will do--Sure Hope So

Posted by Paulette on October 02, 2000 at 00:02:41:

In Reply to: okay, will do posted by Rich Gonci on October 01, 2000 at 23:35:37:

Rich,

Rosemarie had an excellent post IMHO and I thank her for it. Perhaps it hit home to more than one participant on this BB. AS I told you before, you sound like me back in January 2000. I've come a long way, however, have a long way to go. The anger tends to get in the way as well as our perception that we're being attacked. When in reality, it's someone voicing their opinion and we take it personally. In my case this triggers the old fight or flight syndrome and if I give in, forget it Charlie.

I put sooo many miles on my car everytime I gave in and hit the road to points unknown only to have to return and face the situation anyway. (sigh) Surprisingly, it kind of hit this evening and I backslide a trifle.:-( There are a few more miles on my poor old car because I let the situation get the best of me after almost a year of ignoring the fight or flight syndrome. Glad you're going to do as Rosemarie expressed.:-)

Paulette



Sad

Posted by Elizabeth K. on October 02, 2000 at 14:27:28:

In Reply to: Re: Rich, please read this... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:17:05:

trish,

I enjoy your notes, but when I first read this the thought came to me that someone was impersonating you. Now reading your note to Rosemarie I've realized it really was you. No one, regardless of their own faults, deserves to be treated that way. I wish you well in your life with Robert, but you should be careful with the "ego".

liz



Re: I DO practic serious SR...YEAH, on your mouth!

Posted by U R Rude on October 02, 2000 at 23:33:09:

In Reply to: I DO practic serious SR... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:27:53:





Re: I DO practic serious SR...YEAH, on your mouth!

Posted by U R Rude on October 02, 2000 at 23:43:53:

In Reply to: I DO practic serious SR... posted by trish on October 01, 2000 at 00:27:53:





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