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ODD child, what do I do for her?

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ODD child, what do I do for her?

Posted by
Elaine Lowrnace on November 01, 2000 at 11:12:56:

I feel like an octopus being pulled by all eight legs in different directions. My daughter is six and is having symptoms of ODD, oppsitional difiance disorder and unfounded fear of a little boy who threw up in her class room. She won't stay in the room with him, runs to the restroom to hide and gets hysterical when school staff try to make her stay in the classroom. I am now waiting on results from a stool kit because I found pinworm in her BM. She has suffered constipation most of her life, vaginal yeast infection I can't get rid of and, due to a pelvic kidney, UTIs. She has had, needless to say, a lot of anti biotics. She did not sleep through the night until she was three, and did not sleep very well at all as a baby, she is still a restless sleeper. She is shy and declining and almost anti social until she warms up to you. She wants things her way and if not, won't play with the other child.
Is this renal? Is this gastrointestinal? Is this parasitic? Is this yeast? Is is a lack of something in her diet? Does she need vitamins, mineral suppliments or amino acids? Is it all of the above?
I don't know what direction to go in. What to persue first. Are there tests I should ask her doctor about?
If I sound frustrated, you're darn right I'm frustrated. I'm tired of being treated like a hysterical mother. Please help.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?

Posted by kmd on November 01, 2000 at 13:26:21:

In Reply to: ODD child, what do I do for her? posted by Elaine Lowrnace on November 01, 2000 at 11:12:56:

Hi Elaine,

I'm not a doctor, but I think I can at least help some here. I'm not familiar with ODD, but I can imagine just from the title of "oppositional defiance disorder" what it means. She also seems to have some sort of phobia about the vomiting (is she that way about her own vomiting, other people, or just this one boy?)

It seems from your description, that she is suffering from LGS (Leaky Gut Syndrome), C-RS (Candida-Related Syndrome - the yeast infections you mentioned) and parasites (pinworms, maybe others?). Of course yeast is basically a parasite too! Do you understand the connection between antibiotics and candida?

Your thinking is on the right track! With your eagerness to learn you will find the right path for your daughter. Do you have Walt's book? Have you had a chance to read all his on-line "Articles on Health" on this site, and have you been able to locate the archives? All these things are filled with tons of good info!

If you are looking for a place to start, I would suggest you start by placing her on the perfect whole foods diet. You will need Beth Loiselle's book in order to do this. Since she has candida, you will want to also eliminate all fruits for several months. This diet is difficult for beginners but you will soon find it getting easier as you adjust and the benefits will be worth it.

If that sounds too overwhelming, you might want to look into eliminating her most commonly eaten foods and see what happens. Two of the ones that cause the most problem are milk and wheat. You will have to learn all the derivatives of these in order to totally eliminate them, and the elimination has to be perfect to be effective.

I would begin supplementing her with some probiotics such as acidophilus and bifidus or whichever your health care practitioner recommends. I would suggest you ask Doc Kim for a referral to a chiropractor in your local area who can do AK on your daughter which will discover her own body's needs better than we can by guessing at it.

Feel free to ask questions so we can all try to help you through it.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?PLEASE READ ELAINE!

Posted by Belinda on November 02, 2000 at 22:04:56:

In Reply to: ODD child, what do I do for her? posted by Elaine Lowrnace on November 01, 2000 at 11:12:56:

My daughter is six and is having symptoms of ODD, oppsitional difiance disorder and unfounded fear of a little boy who threw up in her class room.
I too, and many others have this fear, fear of vomiting, also called emetophobia. We will go to ANY lengths to avoid doing it, or avoid people that DO it. Below is a link to join this group. There are wonderful people, and it sounds like he/she may have this profile, please dont refer to her as 'odd'.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 03, 2000 at 10:18:12:

In Reply to: ODD child, what do I do for her? posted by Elaine Lowrnace on November 01, 2000 at 11:12:56:

Hi, Elaine.

Listen to kmd (Thanks, kmd!)

Until you get her brain chemistry improved (genetic susceptibility is just a warning light of what you need to do) nothing much will help. However, the longer this goes on, the more of a habit (psychological problem) it will be.

SO, it is essential that you start learning as fast as you can. This likely has various contributing causes to her chemical imbalance; such as LGS, C-RS, brain basement membrane hyperpermeability (related to the LGS), Brain Allergies, food sensitivities (related to the LGS), even possible MCS (multiple chemical sensitivities).

She needs someone local that has enough training in advanced medicine to actually help. Toward that end, you need to produce a health history (see the health coaching protocol on this site), get copies of ALL of her medical records in your home & use the glossary and archives to find the best Developmental Pediatrician with the above qualifications.

Let us know how she does. The cutting edge information you need is here but I cannot dig it out for you.

Walt



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?PLEASE READ ELAINE!

Posted by Reno on November 03, 2000 at 12:22:08:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?PLEASE READ ELAINE! posted by Belinda on November 02, 2000 at 22:04:56:


Why do you say this? Not all children with Oppositional Defiant Disorder have a phobia about vomiting. My son has a phobia about gang kids, and I'm not even sure that would be the right term since he has anxiety disorder too, but he sees them everywhere, especially if not medicated. That is not part of the criteria for the disorder. Taking it seriously is of great concern, the label isn't. I didn't know about these things a few years ago so my son went one step further, Conduct Disorder. I also work with children who have these accompanying other disorders. Most often there is comorbidity. From what I've learned in my circles and from Dr. Stoll, I think he's telling you the right direction, please listen to what he says 'cause he really is on the cutting edge unlike most of the regular MDs these days. Good luck to you and the previous poster.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this.

Posted by Caren on November 03, 2000 at 19:48:21:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her? posted by kmd on November 01, 2000 at 13:26:21:

It seems from your description, that she is suffering from LGS (Leaky Gut Syndrome

LOLOLOL Why is it that 98% of the disorders on this web site are told they have LGS, need ROLFING or SR?????? This is a riot. kmd, you are NOT a doctor, but seem to have an answer for everything, are you a clone of Dr Stoll?? Elaine, your daughter seems to have a few problems, emetophobia may be just a part of it, dont listen to these unlicensed people on here who get off on playing doctor, go to a REAL, PRACTICING MD, or a few of them and get this treated correctly, and not by a bunch of amateurs. Good luck honey.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren

Posted by phenomenal on November 03, 2000 at 20:05:28:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. posted by Caren on November 03, 2000 at 19:48:21:

Caren you criticized kmd but then Walt validated everything she said so now what do you say



My child was ODD, too. I understand & this is what I did.

Posted by Straw on November 03, 2000 at 20:51:22:

In Reply to: ODD child, what do I do for her? posted by Elaine Lowrnace on November 01, 2000 at 11:12:56:

Elaine, I just saw this & although I don't have time, I'll try to help you, too.

My 7 yr. old little boy was diagnosed severe ADHD when he was barely 4. I have taken him to 5 neurologists (pediatric), P.T.'s developmental pediatricians, psychiatrists, psychologists & I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.

My child is adopted (& of Irish Descent). Please do a search for celiac disease & read all about it. My child is not autistic, nor PDD, but two books that will help explain what KMD is talking about are "Unraveling the Mysteries of Autism & PDD" by Karen Seroussi & "Biological Treatments for Autism & PDD" by William Shaw.

Either yeast and/or gluten (wheat, oats, barly & rye) can basically eat holes in the intestine. The intestine is supposed to break down & absorb nutrients & send those nutrients to cells all over the body, making healthy cells. Partially broken down gluten (called peptides) go through the holes in the intestine & cross the blood/brain barrier, going to the brain. The peptides mimic neurotransmitters, scrambling sensory systems.

Now, this is NOT a technical (or probably entirely accurate description), but it is a Mom's simplistic definition.

Doctors discouraged me from trying to help my son with a healthy diet. It is difficult to understand why a doctor would NOT want you to try a healthy diet, but they do. Please believe me when I tell you that through reading these books and the books Dr. Stoll recommended, my child is rarely oppositional anymore & only mildly ADD.

There is a gut/brain connection. Because of either Candida yeast, or gluten/casein, your son is probably allergic to all or at least many of the foods he eats.

I recommend you read all you can of what Dr. Stoll recommends. Also, www.greatplainslaboratory.com can send you tests (that a doctor has to order). This lab is run by Dr. Shaw. He is not a medical doctor, he is a biochemist or something, so the medical profession cannot "jerk" his license, or whatever it is they do to alternative MD's. I believe he patented his tests that he developed, which also probably irritates some health care professionals. Anyway, you can find with his tests foods your child may test allergic to (do not do the skin prick tests, those show upper respiratory allergies). You need to know what the blood is making antibodies to. Dr. Shaw can also test the urine to find out if gluten/casein is a problem for your child. "Is This Your Child" by Doris Rapp is also a good book to read (and get overwhelmed by).

I'm just a mom, and I'm posting only to help encourage you to know that Dr. Stoll helped me tremendously. My child is doing "1000 times better than last year" according to one teacher. He is still developmentally delayed, but making good progress. All the years of eating wheat gluten & dairy probably made him delayed.

If you do a search on this site, you may find a post or two that I've made (not sure if you will find them or not). The diet connection is somewhat difficult to figure out on your own, that is why I encourage you to get the tests. I'm betting, though, that he is most affected by dyes, preservatives, gluten & dairy, or at least the food he craves.

Good luck. I know at least 10 other moms whose children have improved after they figured out which foods were the culprits, eliminated those, healed the gut, added supplements (for brain & healing gut), etc.

Straw



To Caren, I did. I went to many, many real, practicing MDs

Posted by Straw on November 03, 2000 at 21:10:14:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. posted by Caren on November 03, 2000 at 19:48:21:

Caren,

I have taken my child to many, many real MDs. They did try to treat the symptoms of my child, and some of the meds did help him for awhile. However, the meds work better & we need fewer (and fewer side effects, which are many) if you are able to get rid of the causes, and increase the absorption of nutrients.

Apparently every med student learns about celiac disease, but none of them ever suggested it, although it has always been known that celiac can cause neurological problems. I wasted valuable years listening to doctors (and paid probably at least $10,000, for those 3 to 4 years, actually, I'm sure that is a conservative estimate.)

Dr. Stoll charged me nothing, yet practically "cured" my child ... and I believe one day, with the alternative therapies he will totally be cured.

Good luck to you and I hope through reading this board you will find much wisdom. I did, and now my child will have a fairly normal life.

Straw



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren

Posted by Caren on November 04, 2000 at 17:24:34:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren posted by phenomenal on November 03, 2000 at 20:05:28:

Caren you criticized kmd but then Walt validated everything she said so now what do you say


Validated? From a doctor whose license was revoked? Puleeeeze!




Re: To Caren, I did. I went to many, many real, practicing MDs

Posted by Caren on November 04, 2000 at 17:28:54:

In Reply to: To Caren, I did. I went to many, many real, practicing MDs posted by Straw on November 03, 2000 at 21:10:14:

Dr. Stoll charged me nothing, yet practically "cured" my child ... and I believe one day, with the alternative therapies he will totally be cured.

Sreaw....all I can say is...PROVE IT!



Caren, prove what?

Posted by Straw on November 04, 2000 at 19:54:51:

In Reply to: Re: To Caren, I did. I went to many, many real, practicing MDs posted by Caren on November 04, 2000 at 17:28:54:

Caren, you want me to prove what?

I don't know quite how to do that over the internet. I can tell you all the ways he is not oppositional anymore. I can tell you the director of the school came up to me & told me how wonderful he is doing (he was nearly kicked out one year ago & this is a school for special needs kids, he was one of the worst, behavior-wise). I can tell you one of his teachers, who had him last year (and also this year) came up to me & told me my child is "doing 1000 times better than last year".

I can tell you that he is invited often over to play at other children's homes. I can tell you his teacher this year, at our recent conference, told us he is "doing everything she asks" and that "she was quite aware of his problems from last year".

I can tell you that my hair had been falling out by the handfuls in the shower for over three years (due to stress) and that now I have a thick head of hair again, because I am not worried my child will end up in prison (I guess that is why, as I'm not doing anything different. No different shampoos or anything).

I can tell you that my child walks to time out now, when I start counting from five to one where he used to hit, kick, bite & scratch me as I was escorting (carrying him) to time out, because he wouldn't do it on his own.

I can tell you that all our relatives have told me that they cannot believe the change in my child, that if they ever have any kind of illness, they will ask me to research it for them ... as they cannot believe the change.

My child is now on the same medication he was on now, but only for school & at less than 1/3 the amount he was on before Dr. Stoll helped me (adderall). Changing my son's diet (with Dr. Stoll's help), & adding Nystatin Powder (in the amount Dr. Stoll told me to) is the only thing we have done differently (other than reduce the meds).

I have shared my knowledge (as Dr. Stoll has asked me to) with other mothers. Approximately 10 to 12 families have been helped by changing their children's diets & doing some testing. Of course, to totally understand it all, it is best to read the books I've posted about and the ones Dr. Stoll recommends.

I'm not sure why you are skeptical, and honestly, it doesn't really concern me, as it is totally your prerogative. If I hadn't read those books & seen the difference with my own child, I'm not sure I would take someone else's word for it.

However, when you are a mother & you know that you are being consistent, fair, nurturing, postitive parenting, and you see a child like mine, you will do anything to help him. I am a cooking-challenged mom, and this was the last thing I would like to have done. However, I wanted to do whatever I could for my child and my family. I learned to cook. I learned to use my gut instincts, I learned to go against medical doctors who looked me straight in the eye and told me it is hogwash. Now, our P.T. and psychologist are giving out my name (with my permission) to their patients who have children like mine. Why? Because they simply have no contacts in the medical profession to refer to for diet help.

If you are a mother with a behavior problem child, I hope you will consider listening to Dr. Stoll and the others who are also trying to help.

If you are not a mother or if you do not have a health issue that could possibly be resolved by any of the things that Dr. Stoll can help with, then you really don't need to do any of this. If I hadn't been desperate, I wouldn't have been to this board.

Listening to my son's regular doctors was a whole lot easier (giving my son meds 3 x day), but that did not help him. It only masked his symptoms (and not very well, at that). Now, I have a productive child, my family is healthier, happier. We get through days, we never have rages, meltdowns, kicking, screaming, slamming doors. The difference in my stress level and in my marriage is amazing. You just cannot know what it is like to live with a crazy, demanding, difficult child unless you have done it.

Good luck & God bless to anyone who has read this extremely long & probably boring post.

Straw



Re: Caren, prove what?--Straw Thanks

Posted by Paulette on November 04, 2000 at 20:24:31:

In Reply to: Caren, prove what? posted by Straw on November 04, 2000 at 19:54:51:


Hi, Straw

Thank you for taking the time to help other parents.:-)

Take Care of Yourself

Paulette



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren

Posted by
Jimmy on November 04, 2000 at 21:54:20:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren posted by Caren on November 04, 2000 at 17:24:34:

Caren, It sounds as though you are a young person I do not know, but do not knock anything you know nothing about until you have investigated it completely. I am and older person. In the 50's there was a doctor that came on the radio every Sat nite. His topic were about the kids of the future and diseases of the future, and the thing I will remember was he said that in 30 to 40 years(long time in the future from the 50's) you will see kids going wild, will not mind, doctors have no ideal what there problem is, but he said I can assure you they will get a drug of some kind to correct it, which will only make it worst. He always said "do not take drugs of no kind until last resort, be careful what you are eating, fresh or raw only, and for gods sake throw all sugar out of the house." I still remember that. Yes I still know is name, will not mention it.But here is the kicker , he lost his license in 1964 because he would not prescribe drugs to children at every parents wish and advised them to let your own body heal. As for going to REAL MD'S I went to them for 20 years trying to find out what was wrong with myself. After almost dying at the hands of the REAL MD'S I got smart and started looking elsewhere. Luckly for me I found a naturepath who taught me how to heal myself. Cost. $195.00 THE REAL MD'S cost for nothing. Conservative cost of $50,000 Finally wish you the best of luck with your child where ever you have to go,just do not overlook all the good info that is being posted. Remember (drugs,sugar and food) Thanks Jimmy



Re: Caren, prove what?

Posted by
Dave on November 04, 2000 at 22:16:00:

In Reply to: Caren, prove what? posted by Straw on November 04, 2000 at 19:54:51:

Straw, keep up the good work you have gotten on the right track, do not let little people like Caren bother you. It is a shame she has not woke up yet, but it makes me feel good to see parents waking up to the problems that are causing our kids to be the way they are. Dr Stoll has a very informative site. Wish you all the luck with your child. Dave



Re: Caren, prove what? Straw, can I ask you...

Posted by
Deb on November 04, 2000 at 23:28:06:

In Reply to: Caren, prove what? posted by Straw on November 04, 2000 at 19:54:51:

Hi Straw,

I would love to put your story on my food site as a testamonial or example for other parents. Would you mind writing something for me? If you haven't already seen my site, check it out (link below) and if you're interested, please email me.

Thanks, Deb.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren

Posted by hmmmm on November 05, 2000 at 16:37:06:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren posted by Jimmy on November 04, 2000 at 21:54:20:

Caren,

If you are so against everything that Walt and the others are offering on this site, why are you still here? The ONLY reason he lost his license was because he began to incorporate some complementary alternative approaches into his practice and this is too much of a threat to the pocketbooks of the AMA. You don't have to believe that alternative methods work just from our telling you, but you are free to try it yourself and then make up your mind. For many kids like yours, just removing every trace of casein and gluten from their diets gives a complete turnaround. Go to the GFCF site and read more about it, they have a BB too. This is worth a try for you and your child.



Re: Caren, prove what? Thats right you cant prove anything over the internet, so its hard to believe you.

Posted by Caren on November 05, 2000 at 17:03:06:

In Reply to: Caren, prove what? posted by Straw on November 04, 2000 at 19:54:51:

:)




Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren

Posted by Caren on November 05, 2000 at 17:05:05:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren posted by phenomenal on November 03, 2000 at 20:05:28:

Caren you criticized kmd but then Walt validated everything she said so now what do you say

I say it is NOT valid, he is not a licensed MD and hasnt been for years. He may be here to help people...to a POINT...then its time to purchase HIS book and others. END OF STORY!



If what Dr. Stoll says is invalid to you, why are you still here?? NMI

Posted by Why are you here then? on November 05, 2000 at 18:15:41:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren posted by Caren on November 05, 2000 at 17:05:05:

NMI



Re: Caren, prove what? Thats right you cant prove anything over the internet, so its hard to believe you. Sorry Caren, She Doesn't Have To Prove Anything Anyway>nmi:-)

Posted by Caren on November 05, 2000 at 19:00:56:

In Reply to: Re: Caren, prove what? Thats right you cant prove anything over the internet, so its hard to believe you. posted by Caren on November 05, 2000 at 17:03:06:


:-):-)



Re: Caren, prove what? Thats right you cant prove anything over the internet, so its hard to believe you. Sorry Caren, She Doesn't Have To Prove Anything Anyway>nmi:-) -??What Happened To My Name--Correctionnmi

Posted by Paulette on November 05, 2000 at 19:04:41:

In Reply to: Re: Caren, prove what? Thats right you cant prove anything over the internet, so its hard to believe you. Sorry Caren, She Doesn't Have To Prove Anything Anyway>nmi:-) posted by Caren on November 05, 2000 at 19:00:56:


:-)



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?EVERYONE READ!!

Posted by Caren on November 06, 2000 at 00:02:33:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?Elaine, please read this. Caren posted by hmmmm on November 05, 2000 at 16:37:06:

The ONLY reason he lost his license was because he began to incorporate some complementary alternative approaches into his practice and this is too much of a threat to the pocketbooks of the AMA.

Because HE said this is why he lost his license??? Did anyone ever take the time to check, and not just go by what he said??????? Ill check it out, ok? And if your right, I will apologize, Ill let you know what I find out.



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?EVERYONE READ!!

Posted by
Billy on November 06, 2000 at 00:14:44:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?EVERYONE READ!! posted by Caren on November 06, 2000 at 00:02:33:

Caren, now you are going about it properly. You are about to get and education. Billy



Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?EVERYONE READ!!

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 06, 2000 at 08:36:39:

In Reply to: Re: ODD child, what do I do for her?EVERYONE READ!! posted by Caren on November 06, 2000 at 00:02:33:

Remember, they need to protect their skulduggery. SO, if all you do is call them, they will tell you anything. You need to go there and look at ALL the records and make up your own mind.

Let us know what you learn.

Walt



Re: Caren, prove what? (Testimonial candida.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 06, 2000 at 08:41:41:

In Reply to: Caren, prove what? posted by Straw on November 04, 2000 at 19:54:51:

Thanks, Straw!

Isn't it amazing the contortions some people will go through to avoid learning something new???

Your testimonial will help those who care enough about their children to think differently.

Namaste`

Walt



Sure Deb, I'll do article ...

Posted by
Straw on November 09, 2000 at 17:06:10:

In Reply to: Re: Caren, prove what? Straw, can I ask you... posted by Deb on November 04, 2000 at 23:28:06:

Deb, email me & give me a couple of weeks as I'm in over my head right now. Actually after the first of the year would be better.

Straw

Strawberryisland@yahoo.com



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