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OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

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OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Hi Everyone,

Now that we've got Squeaky's asthma under control by having given him a steroid shot, and now he's on a steroid inhaler called Flovent, another huge health issue has come up for him and I don't know what to do.

It took a long time to understand that the dark spots on the carpet were vomit. Just a little dark liquid, no food. I wasn't sure which end something was coming out of. This has been recurring, for months, but we were working on the asthma issue and the vet didn't address it. And then it seemed to get better.

Me, first time cat mom, clueless. I should have been doing something about his digestive system, but I didn't know what to do.

About 7 days after the steroid shot (the correct remedy for the 5 asthma attacks Squeaky had in one night, and after the holistic herbs failed to stop the asthma symptoms), I gave Squeaky and Wiggles a dinner that was fine for Wiggles -- chicken liver with a little meat. However, Squeaky went to bed early, and the next morning didn't get out of bed. Finally, around noon, he had diarrhea and vomited -- still not much food, just some dark liquid.

Since then, after almost every meal, he has hid under the bed, looked pained. He hasn't eaten much, he's gotten very very skinny.

The vet said it was either a pancreas problem or an ulcer. He said let's treat both. He gave me little pink pills which he said cut in half and give in food, and a bottle of powdered herbs to give 1/2 tsp in food as well. He said give him whatever he will eat. That was Friday.

I've been giving the meds in the morning. But after the morning meal, he's been hiding under the bed, looking pained again. Oh, my poor little sweetheart!

Someone on a cat health board said give him some pepcid before meals. How can I know if acid is the problem?

I've been feeding him a bland i/d diet (canned food) from the humane society. Last night it seemed he was doing better. This morning, I only gave him the pink pill, not the herbs, and he still felt lousy. But I gave him, along with the i/d, some ground raw chicken with some raw beaten egg. So he either reacted to: 1) pink pill 2) chicken and egg 3) food in general 4) ate too much 5) acid. 6) other??

He doesn't like eating the i/d so he doesn't eat very much of it.

Do any of you have any ideas about this, or can you help me think this through? My Squeaky is my most loving cat and I'm all upset. Nutmeg, I know you are a great cat mom and hope you can give me some guidance.

Thanks and best wishes,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 15:12:47:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

I'd say just feed him canned food for a while, preferably organic. I did for Luke (Paul Newman organic) and it did wonders for his digestion. I mix a little canned squash into it.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 15:13:20:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 15:12:47:

Despite your good intentions and effort, home made raw foods diets don't always work.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 15:26:33:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Jan,

I will be back later, but do you know what the name of pink pill is that you're giving for the pancreas and/or ulcer? I know you are probably at work and the pills are home, so just post it when you get a chance, OK?

Just wondering if the pills the vet gave you could be Pepcid. Pepcid is salmon-y pink, white inside. The pills are square with rounded corners, and they are raised in the middle (going from memory here). Very hard to cut in half, let alone quarters...Ha! Half a tablet would be a maximum dose--I think the normal dose is 1/4 tablet twice a day, but I'm not positive.

The hiding, food-avoidance problem could be the powdered herbs. Cats don't generally like the taste of plain herbs, because they can be very bitter. Mine would run and hide too!

Pancreatitis also causes pain in the digestive system and loss of appetite, so he may be reacting to that. Cats are instinctively very good at hiding symptoms to prevent falling prey to predators. You probably know that it's difficult to diagnose pancreatitis accurately in cats.

Is he dehydrated? He could be, if he's not drinking water. Pull up the skin at the nape of the neck with your thumb and forefinger. It should snap back right away. If not, he may be dehydrated. If he will let you, slip your index finger in his mouth, between the top teeth and the cheek, and feel the mucous membranes above the gums. They should feel moist and slippery, not dry and sticky.

There are various ways of getting more water into a cat, syringing with a small feeding syringe (no needle), making tuna water from water-packed tuna, unflavored pedialyte, chicken broth, etc. Let me know if you need ideas. If he is significantly dehydrated, the vet would need to reverse it with fluids under the skin (subQ, subcutaneous). This can be done at home, with supplies from the vet to save $$ if he needs it more than once or twice.

My inclination for Squeaky would be to stop all the additives to the food and just give the asthma inhaler for now to keep that under control.

Get him eating again and get him to gain some weight back. Not eating much in cats, even for just a few days, can lead to fatty liver disease (hepatic lipidosis) which is very dangerous and is very difficult to recover from. Pancreatitis can also lead to hepatic lipidosis.

I know you want to feed them both raw, but this might be the time to switch over to some commercial canned food to get Squeaky eating. I/d food is probably OK, but you might want to ask the vet about a/d. It is a canned recovery food that can be watered down and syringed into the mouth, if necessary. Very palatable and easy to eat. I'm not sure if it would be too high-fat in the case of pancreatitis, though, so be sure to ask the vet if this is OK for Squeaky, or if he has other ideas.

If the pills you got are not Pepcid, then you might try that. If it helps, then you know excess acid was contributing to the problem. It's kind of expensive, but I think you can still buy a small package with just a couple of pills. Definitely call the vet and ask if this is OK for Squeaky, and what dosage he wants you to try. It's usually given right before a meal.

That's all I can think of for now. I will ask my cat friends what they think.

It's horrible to have a sick kitty. Take care and give Squeaky a little pat for me.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by deb [2694.8087] on November 09, 2009 at 15:55:20:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

try a spoonful of plain yogurt a couple of times a day- perhaps he needs probiotics, just like we do


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents P.S. msg

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 15:55:47:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 15:26:33:

Perhaps the vet gave you and antibiotic for Squeaky. That is often a treatment for pancreatitis. Here's hoping it works for him!

As you know, antibiotics can sometimes cause stomach upset, lack of appetite, and diarrhea. Sometimes cats hate getting medicine so much that they hide when it's time for their pill, or after they get it.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:40:18:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 15:26:33:

Thanks Nutmeg,

(I made a trip home to see how Squeaky is doing.)

I agree, the priority is getting him eating -- well he is eating, but something happens afterwards that is very painful -- and getting him to put on some weight. He doesn't seem dehydrated, his skin is not too tight. I tried feeling his gums. It was hard to tell.

The little pink pills are ranitidine 75 mg. Give 1/2 daily.

Okay, here's another thing I just realized. Today we just started the Flovent for the first time, but we've been practicing with the aerokat chamber. I put it over his mouth and nose, wait until he breathes a few times, then click and the treat is a piece of canned tuna fish as a reward. He loves it. I've been doing this on an empty stomach, so it could be the tuna, too.

I have been trying canned and dried food (in the last week) just to get him eating. I got some Natural Balance. It seemed to hurt his stomach. I tried canned salmon. It seemed to hurt his stomach. I tried dried food. What happened is everything he ate hurt his stomach afterwards. Then he wouldn't eat the same thing again.

I liked the i/d because it has gravy. Natural balance doesn't have any gravy. I suppose I could just add a little warm water, though. But the texture is wierd.

I didn't give any herbs this morning for breakfast, yet he was miserable again. I don't think it's the herbs.

Oh, and I've been giving him the 1/2 Renitidine in the tuna after the inhaler. I just sneak it in and he gobbles the tuna so fast he doesn't notice.

We did talk with the vet about pepcid and the vet said okay. I bought some, but how do I know that acid is the problem?

Squeaky has been doing okay in the evenings -- no tuna, no 1/2 pink pill. But if I only give him the i/d, he won't eat very much of it because I think he doesn't like the taste. If he won't eat, that won't solve the weight problem.

Is there any other good canned cat food you could suggest? Here in Boulder, I would surely be able to find any high end canned cat food that exists.

Oh, when I went back to the humane society for the i/d, they said next time I need to have a prescription. That would go for the a/d, too.

Thanks soooo much,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:41:46:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 15:13:20:

Thanks, Lurch,

Well, we'll just do what works! Raw or not. Squeaky is a special case. I think I have seen the Paul Newman, I can call around and see where I can find it.

Wiggles seems to have a cast-iron stomach. Hardly ever vomits and does fine with anything I give him. Gnaws on bones like they were candy, too.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:42:57:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by deb [2694.8087] on November 09, 2009 at 15:55:20:

Thanks, Deb.

Now that he's on steroids, I don't have to be so careful about what he eats. I was avoiding dairy because I thought it triggered the asthma.

That sounds like a possible good idea!

Best wishes,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Steve [10433.8101] on November 09, 2009 at 16:52:13:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

What do you give them for water? Is he holding his weight? I know you feed them raw, but that may be too much right now. I agree with lurch, try some can food. Maybe chicken & rice.

Silver Fox!


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:33:13:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Jan,

I have been through the ringer with my current cat, in the realm you
are dealing with, and have some advice that has worked for him.

First, I would have an ultra sound done to see if you can't find a
blockage of hair. This is very possible, even with a short haired cat.
My short hair had a hair ball that produced the exact symptoms you
speak of, and the hair ball did NOT show up on the ultra sound, yet
he did have one. This is not a cheap endeavor, but well worth the
debt.

Treatment that worked was as follows:

Canned food that was NOT mainly chicken liver, but the chicken liver
could be no higher than the third on the list. I found only one that
my cat would eat and hat was Pet promise turkey canned food at
whole foods. Unfortunately, they are going out of business in
Januray, so wellness canned food is ok. Not great, but at this point,
find one your cat likes and just feed it to him/her, no matter if it has
some grains in it. At some point, find a better food if the one you
choose has a lot of veggies and grains in it. It is NOT healthy for the
cat.

Then, probiotics, 1/2 teaspoon once per day. Get one from the vet.
Hopefully you are seeing a western/holistic vet.

Slippery elm, two dropper fulls, twice per day....you can find in the
bulk section at Whole foods, and it is organic. Use 3/4 teaspoon with
one ounce of water. I keep it in the fridge for a few days then throw
out that which isn't used. It isn't a bad idea to put both your cats on
it. It has nutrition as well, and if your cat has IBS, or IBD, or any
digestive disorder, SE goes a LONG way towards helping the whole
system to heal.

Metamucil is very important for their systems, because it helps to
grow the proper intestinal flora balance, along with the Iflora (brand I
use of probiotics). I only give this once per day to both cats, but you
can give twice/day.

At first, with a very sick cat like yours, I would start with a week of
slippery elm and probiotics only. I would add the metamucil when
there was bit of weight on the kitty.

But, if there is a blockage, you can get this type of throwing up. And
these blockages will kill your cat quickly. It is imperative this is
ruled out before treating your cat.

I also advise giving your cat sub q fluids with electrolytes. Very very
very important as their gut is healing.

I agree with Lurch that home diets don't work for all cats. Here is a
website that I love. She lists the commercial diets which are on the
"ok" list, even if they aren't perfect.

I am in the throws myself of taking care of a cat that exhibited these
symptoms three years ago, and we are back in it for six weeks now.
He has gained a pound, and he seems to be back on track, but the
vet believes he has a genetic issue or viral issue of some sort, or, an
autoimmune issue. I just did about $400.00 worth of tests on
Saturday because he is only six, and I need to have a real diagnosis.
As they age, they do not rebound as easily, and I need to know how
to keep this in check daily.

Also, if you have him on other supps, especially any type of amino
acids, such as lysine, take him off. Take him off the herbs until you
know EXACTLY what you are actually treating. These things,
although majorly helpful, can also cause great damage if used at the
wrong time, for the wrong issue. Basics right now might give him a
leg up to gain a bit of weight, so you can have some room to work to
find a diagnosis.

Canned food, probiotics, slippery elm, and eventually metamucil.
And, I would suggest, until more food is eaten and the diarrhea is
stopped, sub q fluids for proper electrolytes. All these things are
mild, basic, and helpful and have pulled my boy from the brink both
times. Slippery Elm works to help both constipation and diarrhea. It
should only take a few doses to get that balanced out.

Good luck. Here is the link. Great website.

dd




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PS

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:35:48:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:33:13:

I forgot to mention, that when my cat put on a bit of weight, and was
eliminating properly, I added to that protocol enzymes from the vet,
with each meal. Seems to help.


dd


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 17:44:33:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:40:18:

Hi Jan,

I'm glad you went home to check on him.

Perhaps the pain after eating is from pancreatitis, and he would associate that with whatever he just ate. Nausea can turn them off of any foods, too. Probably best to just keep varying what you give him. Maybe if you wait a couple of meals to feed the same thing again, he will forget it hurt, and eat it again.

Sometimes warming the food can help stimulate the appetite. You can avoid using the microwave by serving up the food in a dish and setting it in a larger container of warm water to warm it up a little. Or feed him from a spoon or your finger, whatever it takes to get him to eat! Gotta get food into him to keep that liver alive.

I had to look up the ranitidine. It's the Rx version of Zantac, which I think does pretty much the same thing as Pepcid. You probably wouldn't need to give both, but it shouldn't hurt to try one dose (1/4 tablet) of the Pepcid before dinner and see if it helps, as long as the vet said it was OK to use both.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1303+1459&aid=3227

With the acid blockers, if the cat feels and eats better after taking them, then the acid was likely the problem. There is no way to know for sure, that I know of, if they have too much stomach acid.

All those Hill's foods are prescription. Sometimes places will sell/dispense one can for convenience without an Rx. Your vet probably sells them, but they are not inexpensive.

For premium canned cat food, my favorite is Wellness. It is grain-free and made with human-grade ingredients, and they come in 3 oz cans. The carbs come from fruits and veggies. They have some novel flavors now, but something like chicken or turkey would be easy on the tum. Or one of the fish and chicken ones to get him interested.

There are other premium brands now, too. Innova, EVO, Natural Instincts (or something like that), Merrick, PetGuard. There are probably a lot of newer brands, plus regional ones. You want something easily digestible, without too many ingredients. Sometimes richer ingredients, like fish, shrimp, and stuff like that are hard to digest, but they can also appeal to a cat with inappetance. Even Fancy Feast from the grocery store might do in a pinch, just to get him eating. Or Gerber's lamb or chicken baby food with no onion or garlic--not good for a steady diet, just to kick-start the appetite, or to spread over top of something less palatable.

I would stay away from Solid Gold, Spot's Stew, Natural Balance, Sensible Choice, Nutro and some of the less expensive moderately premium foods for now, plus anything that contains wheat gluten as a listed ingredient. Some of these were involved in the huge pet food recall and others are just not that good for cats.

Some of the foods with gravy and sliced or chunked meats are appealing--but often the cats just lick the gravy and don't eat the meat. I prefer a mushier texture that's uniform and easier to lick up, especially off your finger.

For premium canned foods, try a holistic pet store, Whole Foods or Wild Oats grocery, large health food store, a holistic vet who has a pet supply department, Petco pet store--ours sells Wellness and Wellness Core, or even some feed and grain stores, are all places to look.

Do you know what's in the herbs you're giving him? If it's milk thistle, that would be a good one to protect the liver. I'd say to continue that, especially since it doesn't seem to be upsetting his stomach.

I assume the vet checked (palpated) his stomach and digestive tract to look for blockages, like hard stool or a hairball. Sometimes those can cause vomiting and other discomfort. Is he using the kitty box OK for BMs? Hard to know when you have multiple cats :-) Usually pancreatitis causes diarrhea. If you think he might be having trouble, try a little room temperature butter, vaseline, or hairball remedy on your finger.

Hope your little guy perks up soon. I know how worrisome this is. I'm sending him some healing energy.

Nutmeg


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Re: PSS

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:44:47:

In Reply to: PS posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:35:48:

I just read a bit of the posts between you and Nutmeg....antibiotics.
That is a treatment (flagyl....the other name, the one given to the cat
starts with a M. Same drug) used for IBS, pancreatic issues...but I
took my cat off it. He just was dragging and laying under the bed. I
went to a different vet this time because my holistic vet is far away
now. This vet put him on the antibiotics, and I started the old
protocol..the one I gave you. He didn't do well. I used my instinct,
took him off the antibiotics, kicked up the slippery elm to twice/day
and the rest of the protocol I mentioned, and within two days he was
gaining weight. In about 3 weeks, he was running around again. He
is still thin, and has some issue, but is well enough to play and
rough house. This is the same cat that was dying 6 weeks ago. So...I
don't like using those antibiotics. I think they are very rough on
their systems. Especially without any probiotics.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:57:50:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:40:18:

Sorry to butt in here, but time is of the essence. As Nutmeg said, the
liver will suffer quickly if you don't work quickly to get food into the
cat.

I would bet your cat is dehydrated. With no food, diarrhea, etc...he is
more than likely quite dehydrated. If you read into that link I gave
you, she stresses somewhere on the site that water water water
water water, is so important for a sick cat.

The slippery elm should help your cats stomach immediately. I
would get it today and give it asap along with the probiotics. The SE
can also help to move a hairball, if that is what is happening.

From what you are writing, it sounds very bad. You can't wait on
this. They don't have weeks like a dog does, due to getting fatty
liver within two days. So, feed your cat babyfood with a syringe if it
won't eat enough.

But, again, it sounds like it has a blockage of some sort. Which is
deadly if it isn't somehow removed. That really needs to be strictly
visited as a possibility, because the rest can be treated. A big hair
ball can not remain without killing the cat.

dd


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jayne [10093.8266] on November 09, 2009 at 18:15:46:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:41:46:

HI Jan -
our Wal-mart has the little cans of Paul Newman cat food!
good luck with your baby........
I have a cat who throws up because he is a pig when he comes in,,,,,,,I find the Sensitive Systems from O.N.E. helps.


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Re: PSS--Metronidazole is the other name for Flagyl. nm

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 18:19:05:

In Reply to: Re: PSS posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:44:47:

nnnn


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 18:22:39:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:57:50:

Jan, does he have diarrhea? I didn't see that anywhere, but may have missed it. If so, then yes, he is probably dehydrated and would need to take in more water or get fluids under the skin from the vet.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 18:47:57:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 17:44:33:

Hi Nutmeg,

I'm between clients and reading over everything, may not respond to all at the moment.

He has a great appetite -- wants to eat! Just feels lousy afterwards.

Oh, and I haven't seen any diarrhea since that one time a while ago. The last two days, I've seen okay poop. Especially this morning. That part looks fine.

I kind of doubt he has a hairball. Previous vomits (a couple of weeks ago) had loose hairs in them.

Oh, one more worrisome thing. He has developed a kind of twitch that happens occasionally.

Thanks, more soon,
Worried Cat Mom Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 18:56:50:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 17:33:13:

Thanks, dd,

I'm working on it! Does it have to be metamucil? How about just ground psyllium husk by itself? I was adding that to his food on a regular basis, the vet told me to stop. I've been to 4 vets so far and haven't liked any of them. That will be the subject of another post later.

Tell me more about sub q. fluids?

Probiotics.... I wonder if I can get them without needing the vet? Just use human grade?

More soon, I'll have to make a run to the store after I get off work...

Best wishes,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 18:58:46:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 18:56:50:

PS I forgot to say he hasn't thrown up for several days, he just looks like he is hurting and he gets very weak.

I think giving him the chicken liver is what made him worse.....

I think it is good advice to avoid canned foods with liver in them.

Mostly he is up and around, except in the mornings after he eats his first meal and then hurts.

More soon, and thanks so much,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 19:02:05:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 18:22:39:

No, not any more. Stools looked pretty good. Do you still think I should try to force fluids?

Thanks,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 19:09:55:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 18:58:46:

Do you think I should keep giving him the bite of tuna with the inhaler? Do you think I should continue giving him the generic zantac stuff?

He's got an appetite...

Thanks,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 19:38:21:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:41:46:

You can also use Max Cat canned which is meat by-product free - made of real meat. Then there is Wellness brand, Innova EVO (which is 50% protein), and others.

When I used to give Luke real meat, he would often get bloody diarrhea. All I know is that his stools now have much less odor and are formed. The canned pumpkin I add to add moisture, and he likes it - always eats it even if I don't mix it in.

:-)


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 19:41:18:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 18:56:50:

Hi Jan,

I agree with the vets to take him off the metamucil for now, and add
it back in later. I think it can be any type of p. husk, but I bought the
metamucil because it is very fine. Works very well, isn't expensive.

As far as the probiotics go, I don't know about whether or not one is
formulated for humans vs. pets, but this one says "for pets." Could
be hype and it is expensive. I didn't have time to give to research
because he was doing so poorly, and I knew time was of the essence,
so I bought it and was going to do the research as the bottle runs
out. I still have over half a bottle. It lasts a long time, and I have both
cats on it. At this point, I would bye a vet recommended probiotic
and just put out the dough for this round, then do your research
when it isn't so dire. I believe mine has some types of enzymes in it.
You should be able to go into a holistic vet and buy them off the
shelf. I don't believe a holistic vet would ever stop you from giving
your cat probiotics at this point. It can only help.

The sub q fluids I give at home. Otherwise it is very expensive to
have the vet do it all the time. I do it once per day, and with his wet
food and his probiotics (which I give in a bit of water in a syringe) he
is hydrated enough. Without the fluids (I have tried to ween him off
but he isn't heavy enough yet) he doesn't want to eat. At some point,
he must be weaned off, but it has saved his life. I have no doubt. I
have seen the dynamics without the fluids. He would have died
weeks ago without them. You can pick up the bag, have them show
you how to put the thing together, how to attach the needles, and
how to hydrate, etc...it isn't hard to do at all. Get the medium
needles, not the small. The small ones take forever to hydrate the
cat. You may need to hydrate your cat twice a day in the beginning if
he isn't eating enough to get fluid from the food. Canned food is
like 70% water, so they get a lot of fluid from the food.
Unfortunately, it does cause an issue in the end, which is weaning
them from the fluids and getting them to drink on their own again.
Last time my guy went back to fluids within two days. I have tried to
wean him a few times this time around and he won't drink. So, we
aren't out of the woods, and I will hydrate him as long as I need to to
keep him eating and progressing, which he is.

As far as not finding a good vet goes, I am right there with you.
Even my holistic vet isn't great. There is one that is supposed to be
awesome, but she is hugely expensive. She is holistic/western, head
of the vets association of sonoma county, but man.......these people
cater to the rich, and I can't afford it. That is where I draw the line
with the whole new age beliefs around the money thing. These new
age practitioners, which I have been around for many years, have this
belief that the universe will provide when they are aligned......well,
really what they have done is that they have hiked up their prices,
situated themselves around rich folks, and only give service to
people that have a lot of money. There is no sliding scale, therefore,
a lot of wonderful people that did their calling, but don't make a lot
of money, are out of luck. This to me is the greatest scam of the
new age movement, and imo, not evolved in the least. Just another
excuse to be greedy, imo.

So, I myself am bouncing between about 3 vets, reading up myself,
bringing in info they know NOTHING about, and getting the tests I
want by basically educating them. I am getting what I want, but not
without losing some hair. It is tough to fight these medical
professionals. There is so much ego. But, in the end, I get my needs
met. Unfortunately, it has caused me stress I don't need on top of
the stress from seeing your kitty so ill. IMO, most of them are highly
overpaid, and don't know much other than what they learned a long
time ago. It is unreal. I found, in 3 hours of research, about 4 things
my cat could be dealing with that they would never have entertained
because of his syptoms, but there was something just slightly off on
the first blood test, which they were ignoring, all three of them, and I
didn't. They finally agreed that yeah, it could be these things. I had
to fight for it though, and they would rather go week after week in a
holding pattern. I am switching vets yet again, after I get back my
results later today. And, I will keep switching until I find an
intelligent one that coat checks his ego and wants to save my cat
above all else. I feel for you. I understand the frustrations, not to
mention, the dent in the pocket book with little result. It hurts.

The protocol I gave you may or may not be all you cat needs. For my
cat, it saved him last time for 3 years. This time, he will need
something else. The protocol saved him from dying, but he isn't out
of the woods. I will let you know what I find on my journey, and
hopefully it will help you.

dd




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Actually I meant Natural Choice

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 19:45:20:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 19:38:21:

I'm not sure about MaxCat - it may be by-product free or maybe not. Natural choice is by-product free - I do know that.

L


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 19:53:39:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 19:09:55:

The tuna isn't great to give them, because it lacks enough Taurine. It
isn't a terrible thing to do, but not great. Giving him the tuna water,
on the other hand, spring water, is a great idea to keep him hydrated.

Personally, I took my cat off everything he was on. I felt like his
system needed the basics, with some mild, yet very effective help
(the SE and the probiotics) because the system was, for some reason,
very messed up. I think you might just try the slippery elm and the
probiotics, without anything else first. Get a baby syringe at the
store for the probiotics, unless you can get him to eat it on his wet
food. My cat won't. I have to give it in water. Just put enough water
on it, VERY LITTLE, to get it up into the syringe. Be careful when
giving it, because if you put too much in the mouth too fast, it goes
down their little lungs and they will cough. If they do get a bit of it
in their lungs, they cough a few times, and they are fine. Just go
slowly.

I would take your kitty off of everything. Go to these basics for a
few days, get the sub q fluids right away, and make sure he doesn't
have a blockage! Give his system a rest. All these things on my
protocol won't tax him. Although, water is a must, because the
probiotics will kill the bad bacteria. Water must be there to flush.

dd




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Yes, that is it! Thanks.....nmi

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 19:55:06:

In Reply to: Re: PSS--Metronidazole is the other name for Flagyl. nm posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 18:19:05:

nmi


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 19:58:21:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 19:02:05:

I would not force fluids without the electrolytes. There is a condition
which can arise if there aren't enough electrolytes, when you force
water into the mouth. The kidneys will suffer and will cause an
imbalance. I just read about it on another site a few days ago. Right
now, I can't remember what it is called. Sorry.

dd


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New Pics of Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

In Reply to: Actually I meant Natural Choice posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 19:45:20:

He didn't take too kindly to a black lady kitty that wanted to visit :

The other day he decided to sit on the bureau for a spell for some reason, so I grabbed my camera :




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Barbara, Larry, and Cats [6.4406] on November 09, 2009 at 20:43:17:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Jan,

Oh, my goodness,....here's hoping your cats start to feel better esp. the one under the bed. I wasn't going to comment since you mostly asked Nutmeg but I just had a couple thoughts that may or may not relate to anything.

I order Halo Treats (chicken)--from the Halo website. My cats love them, esp. the cat that had blastomycosis. It's almost all he eats---it's dried chicken and I think considered kind of holistic. Used to buy it at whole foods---now I just get it from their website - we buy 4 jars at once - 12.99 per jar and it's about $63.46 or something & comes within about 3-4 days. You put them in the refrig. after opening. Oh!.......and we break them up tiny for most of our cats.

That's just one thought. And my other thought is that I would try another vet but it must not be an option as nobody else suggested it.

When symptoms like that (roughly) happen with cats I have known I've had vets work with them---one vet in Louisville would keep them for about 3 days and try various things till they bounced back, but he was special. He once did Sub-Q fluids, as Nutmeg mentioned, just for 3 days on one younger cat I had and it gave him about 10 more years. That it is--no complicated meds that I can recall.

My heart goes out to you for sure. Aren't your kitties young? Did they do blood work? Some vets will do that and send it off getting back a complete analysis from someplace - and give a rundown like Walt does for humans.

I may be way way off the mark as I only read some of the posts, it's late, and I'm really tired. Oh, back to the Sub-Q fluids, in older cats sometimes they do those week after week which I don't believe in, but sometimes it helps a cat bounce back.

Again, I will keep reading the posts to see how you are doing! Give the kitties a (((hug))) for us, too.

Barbara, Larry, and Cats



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by AT [7059.4426] on November 09, 2009 at 20:51:02:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

You could try evaporated milk right out of the can. I've had two cats that thrived on it.


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by AT [7059.4426] on November 09, 2009 at 20:57:35:

In Reply to: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

Priceless, Lurch. You catch just the right moment or that Luke has a million different expressions!
That black kitty is a beauty also.


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Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 21:35:21:

In Reply to: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

Bill took those down for me. I tried again to post, as you told me to,
but no luck. I am doing something very wrong. I hate to be a bother,
but could you take me through , step by step, how to take a photo
out of my iphoto library, and get it to this site? I dragged it to the
URL, but nothing showed up at all, not even words this time. The fist
time I dragged and dropped the photo to the window, but nothing,
but what you saw. How do I get the photo to have a complete
"address" so that it will post. Hmm.....maybe I should post them on
my flickr account.
Still, it would be nice to know how to post them here. Sorry to be a
bother.

dd


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 21:55:12:

In Reply to: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 21:35:21:

I suggest reading this like I once had to do :





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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 22:12:30:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 21:55:12:

Thanks, Lurch! I'll read through this tonight and try again in a bit.
Looks pretty thorough!

dd


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 22:28:14:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 22:12:30:

It is thorough but it's easier than me trying to teach you how to do it.

Or - just paste a complete image URL into the space below to post 1 pic at a time.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:42:19:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 19:41:18:

Hi dd,

Okay, here's my rant about the vets. The humane society vaccinated baby Squeaky twice, and mixed up the records between Squeaky and Wiggles three times. Just so you know I'm not just complaining, The good thing they did was get the cats to me as babies, and did okay with fixing them.

The second vet took an x-ray of Squeaky for the asthma. Guess what -- x-rays of kittens don't show anything. He was SO stressed from it. The good thing they did was say there was no treatment needed unless his asthma got worse.

The third vet, a holistic one, worked in her basement which didn't seem very clean at all. She tried acupuncture but the attempt was so feeble I doubt she had much experience. She also sold me an expensive treatment that I doubted so much I never used it. The good thing she did was give me a sheet about an appropriate diet for the cats.

The fourth vet, a holistic one, well, obviously something is not working with his treatment. The good thing is he told me never to have the cats vaccinated again.

So the vet medical world is the same as the human medical world. DO IT YOURSELF!

Best wishes,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:47:23:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents ps posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 09, 2009 at 19:53:39:

Hi dd,

I called a local pet food store to ask about cat probiotics. She asked what was going on and I explained. She agreed with what you're saying here -- off everything. She thought I should just give him baby food for a while. That makes total sense to me.

He was doing pretty well when I got home from work tonight. So for dinner, he just had some baby food, turkey. He didn't eat much. I'll try giving him maybe four small meals a day of the baby food for two or three days and see how he does. Then give him some of the canned cat food that I bought at the store. It seems pretty clean and I can mix it with water.

I don't think I need to try to hydrate him right now.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks for all your ideas, and thoughts, and prayers for my sweetheart kitty!

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:48:58:

In Reply to: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

Nice pics, Luke!

What a cutie! I like that little head tilt!

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:49:57:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jayne [10093.8266] on November 09, 2009 at 18:15:46:

Thanks, Jayne!

I have heard about cats eating too fast!

Our WalMart is too far a drive to go tonight. I can check later, thanks for the tip!

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:51:25:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Steve [10433.8101] on November 09, 2009 at 16:52:13:

Thanks Steve,

I give them Eldorado Spring Water. He's lost a lot of weight. Yes, I think you are right, off the raw is a good idea. I went to the store for baby food to start with, and canned food for after a few days.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:54:05:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Barbara, Larry, and Cats [6.4406] on November 09, 2009 at 20:43:17:

Thanks Barbara,

I'm on my fourth vet (fifth if you count the emergency clinic I went to once which I will NEVER go to again).

My cats are 2 years old and no, blood work has not been done.

Squeaky seems pretty animated except after he eats in the mornings and then feels lousy. It's hard seeing him look so miserable.

To me, it's just not clear what the problem is. I hope he will continue doing pretty well until we can figure it out.

Thanks for your caring concern, from all of us.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:54:46:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by AT [7059.4426] on November 09, 2009 at 20:51:02:

Thanks, AT.

How interesting! I will keep that in mind!

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 23:17:03:

In Reply to: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

Great photos, great subject! I've seen the bottle-brush tail here a few times, too. He's not a very gracious host, I guess.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 23:43:27:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Hi Jan,

Bringing this up to the top because I'm getting lost in the thread :-)

You might want to consider having some bloodwork done to check liver and pancreas enzymes. That might put you closer to a diagnosis, and give you an idea how to proceed. The only way to positively diagnose pancreatitis is through biopsy, but that is not something I would ever suggest. Blood tests at least might give a marker to follow progress and see how the liver and pancreas are faring.

Any x-rays done of the abdomen to look at the organs? I know they are expensive. They might be able to get lungs and digestive area in the same film and get two for one that way. And this would help show if there is any blockage, hairball, etc., although you said below his stools look normal, which is great news.

What a horrible thing to vaccinate the same cat twice! Unbelievable! No doubt there is some immune system damage from the vaccines that allowed the asthma to develop. Poor little guy.

My friend said the Pepcid is a little safer than the Zantac (not sure why), but Zantac is OK to give. You should not give both. She also said "this guy needs bloodwork, fluids, probably antibiotics, canned food". Maybe not subQ fluids right now, but make sure he is drinking and add liquid to his food if you can.

Her comment on the food was "he is probably going to do best on limited ingredients - to get more iron and b's into him she can get some baby rice cereal, the kind you cook/heat - it has iron and added b's and can be mixed easily into baby chicken food or even a mild one protein/one starch canned food. If she can get some Nutracal [vitamin/mineral recovery food paste from the vet] or something like that into him and have it stay down, that would be ideal too." You might add a teaspoon of winter squash baby food too, for sweetness and a extra little fiber/moisture.

My friend also said that steroid injections can cause ulcers. That could explain the pain after eating. Has he just had the one injection? Probably a good thing. There is a medication called Sucralfate that coats the lining of the GI tract to protect the ulcer and speed healing. Here's a link.

http://marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.html

If you want to do some reading online about any of these conditions, the articles on the MarVista vet clinic website are highly regarded. They have a lot of free info online, as does Dr. Mike (vetinfo.com). Also check veterinary school websites for info, including Cornell and your own there in Colorado.

Tallyville has an enormous number of cat health links.

http://www.tallyville.com/alphalinks.html

Good luck with everything and smooches to Squeaky. I will keep checking back for new info.

Nutmeg


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by k. [2065.8206] on November 10, 2009 at 00:25:20:

In Reply to: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

Luke has a look of total righteous indignation. It's wonderful!


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 10, 2009 at 01:07:37:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Jan, I'm sending you an e-mail with more info. Look for it soon, or in the morning, for you. Let me know if you don't get it for some reason.

Nutmeg




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by VF [12036.8300] on November 10, 2009 at 01:58:36:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

have you tried giving him some yogurt?


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 04:07:08:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 22:28:14:

Hi Lurch,

So, to have an image URL, do you have to download the image to the
web, say at a hosting site, like photobucket, or flickr, first? If not, I
don't see how I can actually have an image URL for my photos in my
files. Is this correct?

dd


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 05:19:18:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 04:07:08:

Yes. Image has to be transferred from your PC to an online location such as photobucket, etc. This is the image URL for one of the pics of Luke I posted above :

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p118/Photogear_2007/cats/bushytail1.jpg




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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 06:13:16:

In Reply to: Re: New Pics of Luke posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:48:58:

Luke says thanks.

He's put on 2 or 3 pounds since putting him on canned organic foods, from dry organic foods. Vet says he's now a "borderline lardbucket" but I'd say he was a tad skinny before.


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 06:15:40:

In Reply to: Re: New Pics of Luke posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 23:17:03:

He's not a very gracious host, I guess.

He's OK with her if she's just in the yard but when she sat on the window sill, that was a little too much for Luke and he started making whiny, growly noises at her.. Cats and dogs are often territorial.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jayne [10093.8266] on November 10, 2009 at 08:21:37:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:49:57:

many groceries carry it too....should have mentioned it last post.......


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 10, 2009 at 08:31:07:

In Reply to: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 09, 2009 at 20:01:12:

Thanks, Lurch.

Has anyone noticed exactly what Luke is fixated on out the window? Is it not the black cat but the rat or grey squirrel on the ground.

Walt


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Steve [10433.8101] on November 10, 2009 at 09:39:13:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 22:51:25:

Baby food is a good idea. Keep us informed.

Silver Fox!


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 10, 2009 at 10:13:51:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by VF [12036.8300] on November 10, 2009 at 01:58:36:

Thanks Vince,

You're the second person who has suggested yogurt! I had taken the cats off dairy, but I will think about this.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 10:21:18:

In Reply to: Re: New Pics of Luke posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 10, 2009 at 08:31:07:

Has anyone noticed exactly what Luke is fixated on out the window? Is it not the black cat but the rat or grey squirrel on the ground.

Hi Walt.

Yes, I noticed. Luke is fixated entirely on the black cat. There's no other critter in the photo.


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 10:47:54:

In Reply to: Re: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 10:21:18:

Do you actually think I'd live in a rat infested area?


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Tabby [15.2532] on November 10, 2009 at 10:53:42:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

My elderly kitty had a bout of pancreatitis at about age 17 that sounds like your cat's episode. I thought she was a goner. A full week of barely eating and throwing up whatever she did eat and diarrhea, too. She didn't seem to be able to keep down even water or tuna juice (her favorite). My vet said to give Pepcid, but we only got it down her one time. She was given sub-q fluids, but that was it.

I pretty much gave up on her one night after the liquid she threw up was tinged with blood. I did some EFT for her (on myself) and prayed and went to bed fully expecting to find her gone in the morning. However, next morning we discovered a completely well cat--she'd eaten all the food I'd put out during the night and begged for more. No vomit or diarrhea to clean up from the night either (first time in the week). We got another 3+ years out of her!

Anyway, towards the end of her life (she also had CRF), she didn't want to eat the canned foods I tried to get her to eat (she'd been a Sci. Diet kibble kitty all her life and didn't like change--I didn't know any better 21 years ago that dry food was bad for pets). I tried CatSure, which is a liquid very much like Ensure for people, and she loved it. It was her "drink". I cut it with water to make it stretch (isn't cheap).

Another thing, if you end up ever needing to give sub-q fluids at home for any length of time, I'd order Terumo (sp?) needles--smaller needles than the usual brand the vet uses with the same flow rate (because of the needle's ultra thin wall). It made all the difference in the world to me AND Casey in my being able to perform the sub-q's at home.

Best wishes to you and the kitty!
Tab


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 10, 2009 at 11:01:26:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 09, 2009 at 23:43:27:

Thanks to everyone for your coaching and support.

When I got home from work last night, Squeaky looked fine. I gave him a jar of turkey baby food, and he ate only about half. He went under the bed for about 5 minutes then came out and was a happy camper all evening, all excited and happy playing.

This morning we had a cuddle purr session which was wonderful and another sign he is doing well. I gave him a jar of veal baby food around 7:30. He ate the whole thing and did not hide under the bed so far this morning (9:00).

Today I have a very full schedule and now that he seems okay, I'm calm again, will keep giving him the baby food for a few days, and tomorrow will try to figure out the next step.

I still need to figure out what is actually wrong and how to remedy it. I think I have been confused by how he seems fine, but then the next time I feed him, he'd go down again.

BTW, the herbs given to me by the vet are: "Custom Formula Pancreas -- Ultra Clear Sustain, Spectrazyme, Medibulk, Bentonite, Glutagenics, Ulicnex, and Liver Flavor." This morning after eating, Squeaky came over and got the bottle and was carrying it around the house, I think because the liver flavor must smell good.

Thanks everyone for helping me think through this last night and in advance for figuring out what to do next. I'll be back later today or tomorrow.

Best regards,
Jan



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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 10, 2009 at 11:06:26:

In Reply to: Re: New Pics of Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 10:47:54:

OK, Lurch. A squirrel infested area.

You cannot see the little grey squirrel on the ground right where Luke is looking? The black cat is looking at Luke but Luke is focussed on the squirrel.

Walt


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Re: New Pics of Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 11:10:29:

In Reply to: Re: New Pics of Luke posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 10, 2009 at 11:06:26:

If there were a squirrel in the photo, that black cat would have eaten it for lunch. :-) There are many squirrels here but not when cats are around.




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 10, 2009 at 11:44:34:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 10, 2009 at 11:01:26:

Wow, Jan, thanks for the great update. That sounds like fantastic progress.

Keep us posted!

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by VF [12036.8300] on November 10, 2009 at 12:31:30:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 10, 2009 at 10:13:51:

when a new hound couldn't keep much down yogurt helped a lot, then tripe put weight on him, and then cayenne in rice stopped it from coming out the other end too fast. When a friend who told me about cayenne said one of his dogs hadn't eaten in 5 days, I told him to try some cayenne, in case it had a stomach bug. Soon after it started eating again, like it hadn't eaten in 5.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by samm [1003.2765] on November 10, 2009 at 12:56:10:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 09, 2009 at 16:42:57:

there's soy yogurt in health food stores, as well as goat's milk yogurt.


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:35:39:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 05:19:18:

Ah ha! Got it! I read that there are programs that you can buy that
will give your photos a URL address, but I guess it is just easier to do
it from the sites. I have a flickr site as of late, but the photos are fuzzy
looking. I think I will try a photobucket account. Thanks!

dd


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by VF [12036.8300] on November 10, 2009 at 13:40:56:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 10, 2009 at 10:13:51:

my guy turned his nose up when I offered the yogurt, so I stuck it on his nose so he would have to lick it off. Once he did he wanted more.)) It only took a small amt once to work.


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:56:10:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:35:39:

ok, going to try here....


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:57:19:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:56:10:

Didn't work...hmm


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:58:01:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:57:19:

ok.....jeez....this just can't be all that complicated.......I'll go read on the
photobucket site.....


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 14:12:34:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 13:57:19:


trying again


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Re: Lurch?

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 14:13:39:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 14:12:34:

jeez....I give up for now. I have never had such a hard time posting a
photo!


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Here's your cat pics

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 14:58:03:

In Reply to: Re: Lurch? posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 14:13:39:

I'm not sure what you did above but the image properties looked like the image was only 24x24 pixels wide.

WHat I had to do at your photobucket site was click on

Share >

Post to Website >

Get Link Code>

Direct Link

then copy the URL to post here. You'll catch on to it. It's kind of tricky.




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BTW....

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 14:59:21:

In Reply to: Here's your cat pics posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 14:58:03:

your cats are real cute. Nice shots.


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Re: Here's your cat pics

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 15:11:04:

In Reply to: Here's your cat pics posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 14:58:03:

Thanks, Lurch!!! Well, I just downloaded them to the FREE account,
and that is what they gave me size-wise. Do you have a paid
account there? I don't seem to have a choice on flickr either unless I
upgrade and pay for an account. Those are some pretty small
photos, considering the original size is 4000x3000. They are very
large photos. Anyway, THANKS! I copied your instructions and will
do more later.

Yeah, they are cute, aren't they? I love them so much.

dd


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Re: Here's your cat pics

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 15:32:14:

In Reply to: Re: Here's your cat pics posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 15:11:04:

I have a free account at photobucket. Don't need to pay for account unless you want to upload tons of pics.

You can change the settings so it will not resize them for you. They upload for me at whatever size I resized them in Irfanview. Look around there and I'm sure you'll find it. I seem to like Photobucket better than Flickr.

Real cute cats. I love them all. I tend to have a thing about orange ones. :)


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This is Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 15:35:53:

In Reply to: Re: Here's your cat pics posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 15:32:14:

This is Luke one day when I was vacuuming. Note how startled he looks.


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 17:07:23:

In Reply to: This is Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 10, 2009 at 15:35:53:

His markings are so amazing. What an unusual face pattern. Looks
like he got curious and dipped his little face into a bucket of paint, or
a cup of coffee! Very beautiful. If that is his startled face, he is
pretty calm. My cats look like they have encountered demon from
hell when the vacuum comes out. One cat runs and actually opens a
hallway cabinet and jumps in. She has a hideaway bed in there I
made for her for when students come in and when the vacuum
comes out.

I love orange tabbies too. My last cat was a female red tabby, an
unusual cat since most red tabby cats are male. She was an amazing
cat. A laboratory testing cat. She died of some strange cancer only
found in dogs when she was 16, leaving me to believe that she was a
cat used for cancer testing. Probably the greatest cat I have ever had
in my life. She showed love in an incredible, yet odd way. For a cat
that lived her first 7 years in a tiny little cage, and had to wear a
straight jacket while being poked and prodded all those years, she
became the most trusting animal I have had the pleasure of taking
care of.

I will tweek my settings then on photobucket and send a few more
pics later. I have to go teach now! Thanks again, Lurch.

dd


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 11, 2009 at 10:38:29:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 17:07:23:

You're welcome. Where did you get that female orange tabby?

Sounds like you really love your cats. Luke gave me a black eye 2 Sunday nights ago but I didn't even raise my voice to him.. I was going to brush his teeth and was holding him near a mirror, and I guess he flipped out and thought there was another cat around and turned around fast and got me on the eyelid with a claw, and on the nose. My eye looked bad for a few days. Happened about the time I was going to go to bed. 5 minutes after I went to bed, Luke jumped up on the bed and slept near my feet, which is where he likes to sleep, and for the first time in my life, I allow a cat to sleep in the same room with me.. He's a good buddy. I wouldn't part with him for any reason.

Lurch


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Just love the Tally site about cats--thanks

Posted by lovebird [6.3291] on November 11, 2009 at 14:32:08:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

We have an indoor cat and I am learning so much from this site
Thanks
Great topic Jan


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Why do cats talk so much?

Posted by lovebird [6.3291] on November 11, 2009 at 14:36:27:

In Reply to: Just love the Tally site about cats--thanks posted by lovebird [6.3291] on November 11, 2009 at 14:32:08:

I heard it is because they see another animals from a window inside and want to play
Is that true?Thanks all cat parents here...

Such kind people
We have a white, deaf indoor cat named Snowball
We saw Cats 101 on Tv and he looks like the "ragdoll" variety
And dont you just love that a cat like a ragdoll is featured in a swanky, hotel lobby in Manhatten...

Snowball knows way before it is going to rain
Long before my husband is coming home

We recently bought him this super soft bed, soft green color and he loves it..curls up in all kinds of positions and cuddles...

Lovebird


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues

Posted by Carol B. [10264.8293] on November 11, 2009 at 17:38:38:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Jan,
Low magnesium can contribute to asthma and to muscle twitching.
I don't know how you would supplement mag for a cat.

LED light therapy applied to the abdomen may help the organs. The light imparts energy to the mitochondria in the cells, so that they can function properly and heal.

This site has information about the mechanics of LED light therapy.
http://www.photonicenergetics.com/page5.html

LightWorks is a good unit, and available on eBay.

I remember reading about a person on another board, who bought LightWorks for herself. Her pet bird had a swollen abdomen and was listless. After using the light therapy on the bird, the abdomen went down and the bird felt better.

Carol B.



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Re: Why do cats talk so much?

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 11, 2009 at 18:32:57:

In Reply to: Why do cats talk so much? posted by lovebird [6.3291] on November 11, 2009 at 14:36:27:

Hi Lovebird,

Some cats just have a lot to say!

Your Snowball may be talking, even though he's deaf, because he can feel the vibrations through his whiskers and his feelers (eyebrow whiskers). He may have just a little bit of hearing, so he might be picking something up with his ears. When cats (or people) have lost or never had one of their senses, the others typically are more sensitive, to compensate.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 11, 2009 at 19:50:06:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues posted by Carol B. [10264.8293] on November 11, 2009 at 17:38:38:

Hmmmm. I have some infrared light bulbs here at the house, maybe that would work. I've heard it works for reptiles.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues

Posted by Carol B. [10264.8293] on November 11, 2009 at 20:08:58:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 11, 2009 at 19:50:06:

Jan,
They need to be LED's with a specific wavelength, such as 880.
Look at some of the informative links on that page when you get a chance.

However, infrared lights would increase the blood circulation, which may help.

Carol B.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues

Posted by Tabby [15.2532] on November 12, 2009 at 00:05:35:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues posted by Carol B. [10264.8293] on November 11, 2009 at 20:08:58:

My kitty loved laying under an infrared lamp I got her for winter-time use. It was a reptile heat lamp from Petsmart. It clipped onto her perch/bed and had a metal guard which kept her from the hot bulb.


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:28:03:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 11, 2009 at 10:38:29:

Hi Lurch,

Sorry not to reply until now. Buster (my orange) became very ill last
night and wouldn't stop throwing up. I hydrated him and I thought it
was just a reaction to a food he ate, but then it happened again this
morning, and he wasn't well at all. I thought he was mending, but I
guess not.

Tonight he is spending the night at the emergency vet, having a
barium test, and they ended up testing also for pancreatitis. The
barium moved extraordinarily slowly from the stomach and what
should have taken no more than an hour, took three. They said it
could be pancreatitis, because the duodenum was stiff and they took
a blood test to test for that. I won't get that test result back for a
few days though. It could also be IBS, IBD, or lymphoma. So....at
least I am finally getting on with a diagnosis. I switched vets today.
I called my normal vet this morning, told him how bad off he was
and that I needed to hear back from the asap as to what to do. Four
hours later they hadn't called, so just by luck, I got an appointment
slot with this other vet my massage therapist had recommended as
great vets for diagnosis. Sure enough, within 20 minutes at the
appointment, I had got more information than I had in 7 weeks of
suffering through this. She was appalled at the fact both vets did
basically nothing to help him and let him get to this point. I actually
have notes from one vet saying he isn't convinced he is sick (he is
obviously sick to anyone that can see in the least), and when I said
so, he leaned over in my face and actually said, "prove it." I am so
angry at him, after seeing someone finally get "on it" today. And, I
am angry with myself for not leaving those vets sooner. I am
actually considering getting a lawyer and going after the vet that got
in my face. There was a tech in the room, so unless she lies for him,
he is caught. What a terrible thing to do to someone that is already
maxed from their animal being ill. Horrible person. I finally got a
call back from the other vet, 9 hours later. They were taken aback a
bit when I said he was elsewhere being tested. Idiots. Like I would
wait for them all day when he is that ill? He threw up 6 times last
night, and twice this morning.

So, I went to visit him tonight, brought him his feather fishy that he
sleeps with, my sweatshirt he sleeps on (which she said he crawled
underneath and is sleeping now, and I brushed him for awhile. I fed
him by finger and cried in the car when I left him there. I just hate
this. He is so freaked out. The visit didn't go very well. He couldn't
calm down at all.

So, yeah, I love them, as you love yours too. I got the red girl tabby
at the humane society. Once in a great while, the labs will not
destroy the cats, and when I saw her, I felt so badly when I read her
story that I went in to see her. They told me not to expect her to
come out of the cage because she hadn't yet. I went in, leaned up
against the counter, leaned over and peered in, and she ran out, ran
up my arm, put her nose on my cheek and ran back down into her
cage. She came to the edge and peeked out at me around the corner
of the cage. So, that was it, she chose me. Awesome cat.

Cat scratch on the eye....ouch. He actually lets you brush his teeth?
Wow....that is fantastic. I haven't had a cat that would allow me. I
know what you mean about never parting from them. They become
such a deep part of you. For me, much more than humans do. They
connect in a way I have never felt from a human.

Luke is a beauty. Well, I should say....a handsome dude! :-)

Wish me luck with my buddy. I pick him up in the morning.

dd




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:44:47:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Hi Jan,

How is your kitty doing? Read my last response to Lurch below. My
cat is very ill again. Actually, the worst that he as been so far. He is
in the hospital.

dd


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 12, 2009 at 07:48:19:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:28:03:

I sure wish you luck with him.

I give Luke colloidal silver once in a while but since putting him on canned organic foods his digestion is much better. He used to get runny stools often and bloody if I fed him real meat.

A year or so ago my cat Pete got sick - can't even remember what happened now, but took him to the vet and they ran up a $400 bill and found nothing. I was a little upset they did this after supposedly knowing I'm not rich. They have a new lady vet there that I don't like as well as the nice lady vet that left there a while back, and she may have done that.

Do you ever give your cats hairball stuff? They can get hairball blockage and possibly cause vomiting, etc. I like to try to give Luke hairball stuff and/or some fat in his food, coconut oil, butter, or something, to help digestion. Even with the canned organic food, his stools seem on the dry side.

I connect better with cats than humans too, but am connecting better with people since chelating mercury. I feel that many/most of my old friends have more or less abandoned me. They can't tolerate poor muscle tone and mysterious health issues in someone, even if it's a good old friend. I kind of hold a grudge about this but I try not to let it cloud up my day.



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Re: Why do cats talk so much?

Posted by lovebird [6.3291] on November 12, 2009 at 13:44:59:

In Reply to: Re: Why do cats talk so much? posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 11, 2009 at 18:32:57:

You are right
He does hear a tiny but because he gets so relaxed when we play music.
He is just so funny
And when he looks out the windows he really yells loud at rabbits, birds and all

I WAS taking him out a bit for fresh air which he loves but since reading up on the Tally site about cats I think it is heathier for him to sniff cold air at a window or sit with us on the deck with his leash..

We got him the softest bed recently and he loves it.

Just so nice

Thanks Lovebird


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Re: Here's your cat pics

Posted by lovebird [6.3291] on November 12, 2009 at 13:55:57:

In Reply to: Re: Here's your cat pics posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 10, 2009 at 15:11:04:

Adorable
I have to learb this too


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 12, 2009 at 16:23:09:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:44:47:

Jan, here is a link to dd's last post about her sick kitty. I hope Squeaky is doing better today.

http://askwaltstollmd.com/wwwboard/messages/585099.shtml


dd, I'm so sorry to hear your kitty is so ill. I hope he had a good night and that they have been able to figure out what's wrong so he can begin feeling better.

I have been in the position of having to be assertive with vets to be sure my cats get better care. Of course, more aggressive vetting always costs more, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and get the necessary testing and treatment. Wait and see is not usually a very good approach, especially if the cat continues to lose ground.

Is this your black kitty that's sick? That photo you posted looks a little like my kitty Newton.

Hugs and best wishes to the sick kitties.
Nutmeg



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for DD...another idea

Posted by Carol B. [10264.8293] on November 12, 2009 at 17:35:01:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:28:03:

Pancreatitis, IBS, and lymphoma may be associated with tick borne infection, from what I've seen with people on the Lyme board.

Digestive enzymes and systemic enzymes may help.

Carol B.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by linda [2790.8114] on November 12, 2009 at 20:35:09:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Someone else may have suggested this but could Squeaky have hairballs? Could the steroids be upsetting his tummy? That sounds like a lot of stress for a cat.

My cat is 18 + YO & when she gets a hairball that won't come up I find little dark places where she's tried to throw up. I have bought her every organic cat food I've found & she won't eat a bite of any of it. She will not eat Hill's, no salmon or cottage cheese for her etc. She likes her Fancy Feast canned & I supplement her through the day with bites of organic chicken or beef & her treats. I would let him eat anything he likes until he gets better. Give Squeaky a hug for me.

It may be time to give Squeaky anything he will eat at this point whether it a high quality food or not.


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Re: This is Luke for dd

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 12, 2009 at 20:47:00:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:28:03:

Hi dd,

Oh my, I am so sorry to hear your cat is doing poorly and you, too, are having a runaround with the vets.

I'm saying prayers for your little kitty.

Yes, it's so interesting how closely we bond with our animal friends!

Best wishes to you both,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 12, 2009 at 20:57:15:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by linda [2790.8114] on November 12, 2009 at 20:35:09:

Hi Linda,

That's interesting. However I don't think it is a hairball, because Squeaky took to eating his favorite toys, sparkle balls, and then he vomits them up with no problem. They aren't small!

I think what stressed Squeaky's tummy was the steroids plus I fed him inappropriately one day by giving him a meal of liver. Usually I would try to give them a little organ meat (not always liver) each day in their food, but life got crazy, I didn't get it done, so to make up I gave them a meal of liver. I've learned my lesson.

He has not vomited for a while now. But after he eats he looks distressed and hides under the bed. So I put him basically on a diet of baby food with little bits of other things. He is doing better but is still by now weak and thin. He has a great appetite and wants to eat, but then feels worse after eating. I was giving him anything he wanted to eat, but eventually I think that's not quite the right strategy because his GI tract is so upset. The vet gave me 2 different things to give him, but he was so distressed I stopped them and started him on baby food. That is working for now.... he seems to be doing better.

Thanks for your concern and I'm happy to hear you have had so far 18 years with your kitty!

Best wishes,
Jan




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Barbara, Larry, and Cats [15.4406] on November 12, 2009 at 21:10:37:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 10, 2009 at 11:44:34:

Jan,

I am so glad that your kitty is doing better. I had a thought today that is unrelated to anything posted and don't forget - I don't have it straight what all the cat was taking (history) etc.............but.......here is my thought:

Had a vet who had me give Charky baby food. (sometimes I think I mixed warm water in it and sometimes not).......anyway, this particular vet said she would only eat chicken baby food. However, I could get her to eat chicken plus when I couldn't get that she would eat turkey baby food. He said it had to be those little jars (Gerber) that had only the chicken in there---not other stuff like might be added for a baby like---I don't know, carrots maybe. (ha ha)

But it sounds like you are doing great. I only tell you this in case your kitty passes up beef baby food one day---then try chicken or turkey.

He told me eventually I had to start giving her regular catfood during the day too because she needed something-or-other like taurine or some ingred. but I did not really do what he said for a while.

By the way, that cat got so she would eat cottage cheese with flax oil in there every morning. Seriously. But she was always sort of odd, so I got by with giving her that. (She was 15-17 yrs. old during this deal)...........

Well, that's all I wanted to say. Oh, for future reference, my cats like two of the brands at Petsmart---Alex the diabetic likes Avoderm and then they all like chicken & liver by Pro-Plan-it's pretty expensive but must be good quality. That is ONLY a thought for future reference w/other cats probably.

Again, glad today was better!

Barbara, Larry, and Cats



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 12, 2009 at 22:58:22:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 12, 2009 at 03:44:47:

Hi dd,

I'm saying prayers for your cat.... I hope he gets better soon.

Squeaky is doing better today. I am feeding him baby food with one spoonful of Evo, and some slippery elm bark. Today he ate 4 times. I'm going to stick with this diet for a while.

Hugs,
Jan


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Re: for DD...another idea

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 00:15:13:

In Reply to: for DD...another idea posted by Carol B. [10264.8293] on November 12, 2009 at 17:35:01:

Hi Carol,

Thanks for that info. He hasn't ever had a tick. He doesn't go
outside at all. I suppose that doesn't completely rule it out, but it
isn't likely. The other thing is that, he and his "sister" had a virus 4
years ago. I brought that in on my shoes, I guess. She has mega
issues from it, ongoing. She is healthier than he is, but has constant
recurring issues from the virus. For them, a cold virus is herpetic.

The vet said this could definitely be some manifestation of that
virus, but the other vets said no way. He got this way after he was
infected with that virus. And that initial infection was BAD! He had
it for ten days and could barely move. They didn't think he would
make it. A year later was his first bout of this current stuff. I think I
just better run the tests, no matter what the cost. I am smart enough
to make more paper to pay for it. Whatever it takes. Money is just
money. It is paper.

Thanks, Carol.

dd




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Re: This is Luke

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:43:17:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 12, 2009 at 07:48:19:

Hi Lurch,

The pancreatitis test was negative. No blockage. I don't like the
emergency techs and vets at night there. The techs are totally in la
la land. My day vet said that she thought that a blockage may have
moved and passed, but they did an enema (after telling me they
didn't need to and without telling me before we rode home for a half
hour.....poor guy went all over himself. They gave it to him 45
minutes before I picked him up. Can you believe that? I just can't
believe the lack of thinking skills. It is everyday....every danged day I
encounter such stupid thinking. And on top of it, they did tell me?
UGH!!!!!!!!!)

He is miserable. He is under the bed and his bum is SO SWOLLEN.
He can barely walk. I am not a happy camper. The night vet checked
his stool after the enema. Nothing. No blockage, so the day vet was
wrong. And there was no communication to me about it until I called
in to find out why his bum was so swollen. Only then did I find out
about ANY of this. Lurch, I just want to bang my freaking head on
the wall. Why why why???? Why is it so hard to find intelligent
people? Just BASIC THINKING SKILLS WOULD BE NICE!!!!! I don't need
genius. Just basic. I would settle for basic. God....

So, I forgot about post and stopped in the middle of it during a
phone call and forgot to return to it. But, my little guy can barely
walk. It is so sad. It is after midnight and he finally ate. I just feel
terrible about all of this. He looked deeply into my eyes at one point,
and all there was was sadness in his eyes. He is tired of all this
crap. I really have to give all this some thought. Just what I should
do now.

Anyway, I am rambling...venting. I just want him to be healthy again.
And, I just don't want to have to deal with anyone else that isn't
completely capable. If I went into my jobs with such a half-_ssed
attitude, I would not only not work here in this metro area, but within
two weeks , it would be across the states that I was incapable, and I
wouldn't have any work. It is that tight knit and we are expected to
live up to a very high level of performance, AT ALL TIMES. And, we
aren't even dealing with life and death. I want people that are at the
top of their game.

I am very sorry those friends abandoned you. I hope you can replace
them eventually with more understanding friends. But, your furry
friends are the real deal. They are amazing.

Anyway, I have to go hydrate him. Take care.

dd




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:53:14:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 12, 2009 at 16:23:09:

Hi Nutmeg,

Thanks so much. No, it is the Orange Tabby that is ill. Poor boy. I
just feel awful about what he is going through. He is traumatized.

I went to visit the Humane Society recently, and there was a room
full of black cats. Like, 30 of the, running all over the place. The
room was amazing, set up like a huge bedroom, with beds and
furniture for them. Toys everywhere. Thing was, they almost all
looked like my black cat. Almost identical. It was so odd..so alike

Yes, I am paying out for all the tests. I will probably go the distance
and get the biopsy, but I just hate putting him through any more.

Thanks again for the kind words and advice.

dd




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:56:05:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [668.8305] on November 12, 2009 at 22:58:22:

Thanks, Jan. I am glad to hear Squeaky is doing better. I am still in
the ball game trying to figure this out. They still don't know what it is.
The barium test was super slow....not right. But, it showed no
blockage and no other issues. So....next test I guess. Poor guy.

Hugs back.

dd


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 13, 2009 at 06:43:10:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:43:17:

Sorry to hear about the things you've been through with your cat and the ER vets. The good thing is that he might heal up now and be well. I'd feed him only simple foods like canned organic, or even non organic, hopefully without any meat by-products.

I once adopted a nice orange & white cat named Charlie from a vet's office (1992). When she brought him to an exam room to show him to me, he shyly walked up to me with his pretty tail between his legs and rubbed his nose under my chin and purred. It was love at first meeting. He had been living in someone's garage in the country. I had him for 9 years, and we seemed to love each other more every day, until he died, and then I was hurt for quite a while. He had a UT blockage that recurred I didn't recognize what was happening, and by the time I finally took him to the vet later that day, his bladder had ruptured when she tried to catheterize it to release his urine. She called me about an hour after I got home with the bad news. I was quite devastated. Not only was I heartbroken that Charlie died, but more hurt that I didn't take him to the vet soon enough, thinking he'd be OK the next day, so I was full of guilt as well as hurt. Stayed up all night that night crying to people on a cat forum. The next day I had to go to the vet office to get Charlie's body. I was numb with hurt. I learned a lesson from that though. He was a very nice cat that I'll never forget. That was a hard pill to swallow.

This is Charlie (with white) and Andrew, taken about the year 2000. I had Andrew put to sleep a few years ago when he began to pee all around the house and got kidney disease. :-(

Lurch




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Re: This is Luke

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 13:32:53:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by Lurch [140.8178] on November 13, 2009 at 06:43:10:

Wow, Lurch. I understand your feelings, completely. The guilt, the
whole thing. But, you just didn't know. I look at these cats in this
picture, and the pics of your current guys, and it is obvious that you
take such good care of them. They look very content and very
healthy.
Your Charlie was my Camilia. (the red girl tabby). It was tough to
read your story. When it comes to animals, it just rips me up.

I am off to deal with the vets now. And then to teach, which will be a
relief to all of this. Buster slept a ton, and seems to feel a bit better
today. He ate a bit of food this morning, kept it down and was then
lounging in his sun spot on his cat tree. So....he is glad to be home.

It is good to connect with you about all this. I don't have many
people in my life that feel so deeply about animals. I like the people
who are connected to animals, such as how you are. There is
something much kinder about them. :-)

Bye......

dd


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Re: This is Luke--info for dd...

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 15:33:34:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:43:17:

Hi dd,

I'm glad the pancreatitis test was negative. At least you know what it's not.

They gave him an enema and then sent him home without giving him time to pass it? That's inexcusable.

You said he has a swollen bum--it is right near the anus? Wondering if it could be infected/abscessed or blocked anal glands. Do you know if they checked that? With as sore as it is, I would they would at least have to sedate him, if not anesthetize him to check the anal glands.

Poor little guy and you. This is a lot to go through. Hoping for a good resolution. I'm also going to reply to one of your other posts.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 15:38:32:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:53:14:

Yep, I've seen a lot of cats and photos that look like my Newton. Black cats tend to be hard to place, for some reason. I think they are beautiful. At the shelter (HS) they told us Newton was the last of a litter of 4 and the the only black kitten. The surrendering family could not place him, so brought him in.

Most shelters do not adopt out black cats in the late summer or fall to keep them safe until Halloween is well over, so that may explain the abundance of black cats you saw. That would be some sight!

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 15:51:23:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Barbara, Larry, and Cats [15.4406] on November 12, 2009 at 21:10:37:

Hi Barbara,

I think Jan said she was feeding lamb and veal flavors of baby food, so those are very palatable too. Chicken and lamb are always favorites here.

Gerber seems to be the best brand because it contains only meat and water needed for processing. Some brands of baby food contain onion and/or garlic, which is a big no-no for cats. It can cause a particular type of anemia that is very dangerous. Always read labels to be sure there is no onion or garlic!

Baby food is acceptable for short-term feeding, but they do miss out on important nutrients, so it's important to get them onto suitable cat food as soon as possible. I'm glad your kitty did well on it.

Some cats do like cottage cheese. One of our angelkitties used to come running when I opened any kind of plastic container in the kitchen, because she hoped it was cottage cheese. It's very digestible if the cat is not sensitive to dairy products. Adding flax seed or flax oil makes it a good food for cats with cancer.

It's good you have so much cat experience to share.

Nutmeg


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd---

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 16:12:15:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

Hi dd,

Sorry, I could not find your post again about feline herpes, and the vets disagreeing on whether your kitty might have it or not. So, I'm posting at the top of the thread, hoping you see it.

These days most kitties have herpes virus. Usually it manifests as upper respiratory and eye issues, but it can probably become systemic like most other infections. Cats can be asymptomatic carriers, and then it can flare up when they are under stress.

Have you ever tried giving the amino acid l-lysine? It helps keep the herpes virus from replicating.

The dose is usually 250 mg twice a day for several days. Away from food, if possible. You should know after just a couple of doses whether it's going to work.

I get 500 mg l-lysine tablets and break them in half. I coat with a little butter and give them orally, followed by a syringe of 1-3 ml of water to help it go down. If you have capsules, you might try giving the contents of half a capsule on some food or treat. The powder seems tasteless to me, but my cats can always detect it.

Nutmeg


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Re: This is Luke--info for dd...

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 16:14:41:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke--info for dd... posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 15:33:34:

Here are a couple of links about anal glands/sacs in cats.


http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/analsac.html

Nutmeg



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd---

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 17:28:16:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd--- posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 13, 2009 at 16:12:15:

Hi Nutmeg,

Thanks for the link to that article on the anal glands. I do think he
has an issue with this, because he scoots quite a bit. 3 years ago
when he got really sick, similar to this time, they said that it was
probably from IBS, and that this was why his bum is raw sometimes.
But, he scoots. And, he has been doing it a lot as of late. Last night I
told the night vet this and she said that he probably wasn't
grooming himself and he was just dirty....too heavy reach himself.
OMG!!!!!! He has NEVER been a cat that doesn't groom and he
ALWAYS is able to reach down there. I told her that and she just
grunted, like a cave woman. Real brainy people up here, I'll tell ya! I
miss the city right now. It definitely has people more with it, more
educated, and brighter, and there are a lot more people to choose
from.

I do think he has issues with those glands, but his bum isn't so
swollen today, and I think it was from the barium and the enema.
Poor guy passed mega mucus and I guess bile....it was so stinky. I
called up to find out if that was normal, they said yes, but it was a
lot. The barium has passed. After he passed that mucus, he settled
down, and his behind is better. He is still a bit stiff walking. And, I
have to say, I started realizing that he has been a bit stiff lately in
the hind end. I just attributed it to aging, but now I think he is in
discomfort. So, I have told all 4 vets about the scooting. Not one
has absorbed that into the picture. So...this should not be so difficult
and stressful. It should be basic.

The one thing I learned from the Barium test, which is essential to
his diagnosis, is that the transit time from the stomach to the next
portion of the digestive system took 3 hours too long. There is
something very wrong here, and 3 years ago, the vet that saw him
said he thought his motility was not normal. Due to not being able
to hear any digestive sounds at all, every time I brought him.
Usually he can hear something. Then, for three years, he was fine.
So, I am going to start doing some calling to the Davis vet school to
see if I can get some answers. The slow movement is terribly wrong.
The article you sent me on the anal glands said that it didn't have
any affects on the overall health of the animal, so I think we have
two separate problems going on.

Thanks so much for you help and concern. I really appreciate it. I
am going to put some calls out to Davis, see if I can't get someone
on the phone.

Oh, in regards to the Lysine..yes, they were both on Lysine, but I did
not like the form of what the vet gave me. In fact, before this
happened to Buster, they were both on Lysine, colostrum, and
Shitake. My holistic vet was treating her for her symptoms, and said
I could give it to Buster too. I think it was a mistake. All the vets
are say it probably didn't kick it off, but I don't know. The both
seemed to be doing better on it, but then Buster started becoming
thinner, and begging for the colostrum and shitake, sitting at the
sink for hours. So, I stopped giving it to him, and within a week he
got sick. The vets have all said that they don't believe that the
protocol had anything to do with it, but that it is a remote possibility
that if he has an auto immune disease, that the protocol may have
kicked the auto immune disease and the immune system into a fight
mode. This makes a lot of sense to me. They think it is unlikely, but
to me, it seems too coincidental, the timing. So....I will figure this out.
I have to help this little boy. Makes me feel terrible to think I may
have helped to kick this off inside of him.

Thanks, Nutmeg.

dd




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd---

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 17:48:30:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd--- posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 17:28:16:

You know, I was just thinking. Even though he has a slow transitional
time from the stomach, he has bowel movements pretty much daily.
Most times twice a day. Once in a great while, he'll miss a day, but
very rarely. So, he does have decent motility once it gets past the
stomach. Just thinking out loud.

dd


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 14, 2009 at 07:51:00:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 03:43:17:

dd,

Have you tried a "holistic vet"? There is a world of difference. See the archives.

Walt


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd---

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.8305] on November 14, 2009 at 10:14:38:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd--- posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 17:28:16:

dd,

As I reflect on what is going on with Squeaky, I also realize that I have made some mistakes causing some of this. Yet I must accept that making some mistakes is part of parenting any kind of dependent whether a child or an animal. We can only do the best we can, and learn as we go along.

I hope you can figure out what to do for your kitty!

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd---

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 14, 2009 at 12:53:59:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd--- posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 13, 2009 at 17:28:16:

Hi dd,

How frustrating for you and your kitty. I'm glad he's feeling a little better after his BM, though.

Most cats do what they need to do to clean their behinds. I've seen a few very obese ones who can't reach back there, but they do try. Sometimes the owners have to help. Seems like the vet could have simply asked if he had trouble reaching, instead of making the pronouncement based on assumptions. Not a very good table-side manner.

Scooting around usually means one of three things--impacted anal glands, residual stool around the anus or stuck in the fur--which would be obvious, or tapeworms--you would see white segments like grains of rice on his bottom. Vet students learn this in school long before they ever get their hands on a patient, so I don't know why the scooting didn't click with any of these dippy vets. Especially with his bottom so swollen.

You know, that stinky stuff he passed could have been the contents of the anal glands. A small amount is supposed to be expressed with each BM to lubricate the stool and mark the territory. If the stool is too soft or dry or narrow, or not enough fiber, the anal glands don't always release with each BM. This stuff smells really vile and can look mucousy. So I'm thinking maybe the plug of barium might have been large and firm enough to express the anal glands as it passed. If they were impacted, there could have been a noticeable amount passing with the stool, along with the noticeable stench! He may be feeling a little raw there and in the lower GI, which could explain the stiff gait.

It would be great if you could get some help from the vet school at Davis. Sometimes vet schools have help lines (Cornell U. in NY has a very well-known one), or maybe you could send his records for a consultation.

I hope you can find out more about why his motility is so slow. Poor little guy. I'm glad he has you.

Take care,
Nutmeg


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To Jan and Nutmeg

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:08:55:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--For dd--- posted by Nutmeg [4785.7783] on November 14, 2009 at 12:53:59:

Thanks you guys. Nutmeg, this is very good information and good
thinking. It was a ton of mucus. Can that much be in the glands? It
was like, maybe an 1/8 of a cup. It was a lot. I was in the vets today
paying up the bill, and they said it was normal after an enema. I
don't remember that coming out of him after enemas before.

He had a stool test for parasites at the beginning of this. It was
negative. I have never seen tapeworms at all, and I am very well
acquainted with those buggers. His stools on his usual dry food are
a bit shorter and rounder than they are now on the wet food. Now
they are long, better hydrated, well formed. But, quite narrow. He
doesn't eat much though, and he used to eat a lot more and he still
scooted when his stools were a bit bigger. I guess I should start
adding the metamucil back in at some point to bulk up his stools.

I think you have made some very good points here, and I think I
should just contact Cornell. Obviously he has issues with these
glands. And he has for some time. I have brought it up over the
years and all just brush it off, not even really checking it out when
he is right in front of them. Most of these vets here, btw, are from
Davis. That is not promising.

I am also going to write (beg) my old holistic vet who has moved to
Virginia. He took care of my animals for 12 years. Great vet. I will
write and see if he can give me some good ideas. I just found him
two nights ago, online on a holistic vet list, by accident.

It's funny, I always thought that if I got married again, that I would
maybe be interested in being with a vet, since they care so much
about animals.........Do they? If they did, wouldn't they go that extra
mile? I would go insane if this is what most of them are like. I
dated a surgeon back in my twenties, and although he was nice
enough, he was somehow also emotionally detached. I have found
that most health care professionals have this similarity. I actually
broke off our relationship because he couldn't show his emotions.
He understood it he said, but felt he couldn't change it because he
felt he had to be this way in order to do his job well, so he wouldn't
doubt himself. I have to wonder if most of them feel this way?
Anyway, a whole other subject.

So, the prescription diet is terrible. I don't even understand it. The
first ingredient on it is "by products." Terrible. And no chelated
anything. There is very little to it, it is made by Purina, there is
nothing special in it, and the Science Hill prescriptive diet is no
better. Their prescription food starts with Pork liver. None of it is
free range, none of it is healthy, and a lot, if not all, of these food
ingredients come from China. Yet, they are two bucks for a small
can. They are saying that if the food has too much fat in it, that it
would make the cat's stomach hurt, but I went to a really decent pet
store today and looked at all the ingredients and fat ratios......the
best foods with the best ingredients, closer to what nature intended,
were higher in fat. I am starting to think that it isn't the fat at all. It
is all that cranberry, spinach, squash, peas, .......in those so called
health foods for animals. it isn't natural for their systems, and
neither are the grains. I know that they eat the stomach of their prey
first in the wild. This is what I was told by many vets, and that there
are often times some grasses, nuts, seeds, insects....but not carrots
and peas and squash...lol. That is a HUMAN health diet.

I asked them how they could make those prescription foods illegal
for sale in the stores, as they were really no different and of inferior
quality sources. They just shrugged saying many owners ask these
very questions, but that they had no answer. They are using food
(bad food at that) as a treatment by formulating it low fat and high
fiber. That's pretty much it. It is void of all those veggies though,
which is good. Those veggies are NOT good for the cats. So, these
bland foods, without veggies or much at all, are two bucks a can,
prescription only. Who made this so? I thought it was illegal to say
that food sourced items could be made prescriptive? There is NO
medicine in these foods. And they have a type of food, both hill and
purina, for each ailment, prescription. Kidney, liver, stomach.....not
much difference in the ingredients..some with lower ash and residue,
some with less fat, some with more, but all pretty much basic. And
expensive. Someone has the patients duped and someone(s) is
making a lot a lot a lot of money, in not a very decent way. If they
really cared about saving these animals, as they say, how could they
feed them by products or Pork liver?

Thanks for the heads up on Cornell. I think I will go that route.
These Davis grads haven't done if for me.

Jan, I think you are right in your other post. It is still pretty much up
to us to figure this out. They don't really know very much and as
usual, they don't go the distance to figure it out. Generally, they
don't care the way they say they do. And they don't entertain any
possibilities as real unless they have been studied. For example, I
asked every one of them if the herpetic virus could cause this. "No,
there have been no studies indicating this." Well, I continued with
my research yesterday. Low lymphocytes, which he has, can be
triggered by a recurring virus. Then I read studies done on people
for gastroperisis. Slow transit from the stomach. They found in one
test that ALL of their subjects had issues with the herpes virus.
More studies.....same conclusion. I sent like, ten links to one vet. No
response......I came to this conclusion, because he had this 3 years
ago. They said it was not connected. It is THE SAME THING! Since it
is episodic, then it is either a virus or IBD. It probably is not cancer.
As one vet said, stomach lymphoma doesn't tend to go away and
come back three years later. My instinct says herpes is affecting the
central nervous system, causing inflammation and probably harming
the nerves. This is what those studies found, and it makes the
stomach transit time very slow. It can become permanent damage,
apparently, from nerve damage from the inflammation. We will see.
If that is so, I will try acupuncture on him. I will probably go ahead,
after he stabilizes, have the biopsy done, just to see if anything
comes up. If not, then forever more, I have done those tests and
if/when this comes back again, I will know better.

God.....


One of the modalities I do believe in is acupuncture. I had pancreatic
issues two years ago, had me down on the floor and in an
ambulance. It was due to injuries, actually, and a stressful time on
top. It wouldn't go away, and that is when I started acupuncture. I
haven't had ANY issues with ANY foods or even during times of
stress since 6 months into the acupuncture. In fact, within two
appointments, I had very little distress. I no longer have to go. It has
been almost 8 months since my last appointment, and I am still
doing fine. So, there is a highly recommended animal acupuncturist
here, and I think that is the next step for us. If it helped me so
thoroughly, it could definitely be a possibility for him. It's better
than all this invasive junk if it works, and watching people shrug and
say....."i don't know", paying them thousands along the way.

The QT has been very soothing for Buster, and seems to make him
hungry and playful, or at times would lull him to sleep. But as my
stress grew, I kept my hands off of him. At some point, about 3
weeks back, I stopped being able to run energy. This is the first time
this has ever happened, and it was because I have been so
frustrated. Just today was the first day I could get energy to run
smoothly. I did it on myself first, and then on him. He purred and
purred. He loves it.

Thanks you guys. Jan, I wanted to say, Buster was doing much better
for about 4 weeks. Was playing, running, etc...and then crashed
again. I thought we were finding our way out of the woods. I think I
will try what you fed your kitty. Thank you. I just tried to find some
basic cat food, lower fat, without all the veggies and grains......found
some with no grains, then some with no veggies but with grains, and
then some with neither, but 18% fat......ugh....Do you have any idea of
what the normal fat content is for a natural bird, rabbit, or rodent
meal for them? Like, out in the wild? I would think it could be pretty
high depending upon the animal.

Ok....this is long. Thanks you guys. I really appreciate the comments.
I am glad that Squeaky is doing much better. That has got to be a
relief. I am looking at my guys with new eyes. I always loved them,
but I love them even more, every single day.

dd





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Re: This is Luke

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:28:45:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 14, 2009 at 07:51:00:

Hi Walt,

Yes, I did. And the next vet I will go to is also holistic. The fist
holistic vet I went to was the one that helped him 3 years ago. But
this time, was a total jerk. Said he was fat, over hydrated, and that
nothing was wrong with him. I disagreed. He got 6 inches away
from my face and said, "prove it." He was rude when I brought my
other cat in a few months previous, so we are done there.

I had a holistic vet for 12 years, but he is now in Virginia. This other
one that I will go to soon, is VERY VERY expensive. $300 for the
original consult. No treatment. I wanted to get the diagnostics first,
elsewhere, because she is so much more expensive. I called them
yesterday though, and after they get all of his history faxed to them,
I will go in. She is the one that does acupuncture, which I am hoping
will help him as much as it helped me.

Unfortunately, money is an issue. I am already over $1500 in tests. I
don't regret it though.

Walt, do you have any info on slow mobility. Gastroperisis? I read up
last night about it being linked to herpetic recurrence in people, in
some of the latest studies. There aren't any studies for animals.
Both my cats have had feline upper respiratory infection, and my
other cat, Fiona, exhibits typical recurrence issues every few weeks,
but is generally happy and in good form, in comparison. Buster has
slow transit time from the stomach...three hours too slow. He hasn't
thrown up the whole time, until just this week. Well formed stools.
He passes stool daily. He doesn't eat much now, although he ate a
lot when well for three years after his last bout of this.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Walt.

dd


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Re: This is Luke

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:30:38:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:28:45:

I think that is supposed to be, "slow motility."


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Re: To Jan and Nutmeg

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.8305] on November 14, 2009 at 19:43:13:

In Reply to: To Jan and Nutmeg posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:08:55:

Hi dd,

I recently read that a rat consists of 55% protein and 12% fat.

I believe that the natural food for these animals to eat is not turkey, pork, beef (imagine a cat killing a cow, right?), maybe a chicken. But it is small birds and mice! Okay, so how come they are not making any cat food called "Mice Delight"? I have heard that mice are the ideal food for cats -- just the right nutrients, amount of calcium, etc.

I have been trying to track this down. Our local reptile pet store sells frozen (and probably live, but I'm not going there) mice. I bought two, but my cats wouldn't touch them. Now I'm buying my raw food from haretoday.com, and they sell ground mice. I bought some, and Wiggles likes it mostly, but Squeaky rarely eats it and only a little bit. This reluctance to eat mouse is so far from natural.

However, once they caught a bird on the balcony and brought it inside and ate the whole thing! The only way I knew this had happened was there were bird feathers strewn all over my dining room. No sign of any other bird parts. This is natural!

The link below is the only one I was able to find about mice flavored pet food. Oh, here's another one: http://www.catchow.com/catcarecenter_nutritional3.aspx?combinedID=21643. Personally, I would not have a problem buying mice flavored cat food.

I had a friend who had an outdoor cat who LOVED chasing and eating mice!

Best wishes,
Jan



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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 23:00:45:

In Reply to: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [10120.8280] on November 09, 2009 at 13:55:00:

So, I am doing research on gastroparesis, and it in western medicine,
there seems to be very little they can do for it. It is pretty serious.

But, what I have found in some studies is that it can be kicked off by
a virus. They don't understand it, but these are the findings. Herpes
is one of those viruses. I believe this is what is going on with Buster.
Last time he had this, he turned around and healed for 3 years. That
isn't happening this time, at least not yet. So, it may be that some
long term damage from inflammation has occured. So, I looked up
acupuncture (on humans of course) as a treatment. Sure enough,
there has been HUGE improvements for people that have very slow
emptying times. Like, triple improvement. It is being researched
now, but slow to go in the Western world. This is the route I am
going to take with Buster now. I'll start next week. I really don't
think I will even do the biopsy. It will either show cancer, which
would kill him in less than six months, or it would show IBD. If it is
what I think it is, then acupuncture should help, and help quickly.
Most of the people in these studies improved within four procedures,
and within 6 months, were emptying at 100% within 3 hours. Still
not perfect, but most of them weren't even emptying 30% in that
time before acupuncture. Western med says they don't know why
this happens. Eastern med says it is the vagus nerve. So, there it is.
I am going with this first. There are also acupressure points up and
down the spine, on either side, for improvement of every organ on
ourselves and our cats. So, Jan, you can doing circular movements
up and down both sides of squeaky (both of them) and it should help
all functioning of the organs. I am going to start that tonight on
Buster when he wakes up.

dd




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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 23:02:31:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 23:00:45:

Sorry about all the typos...so tired.


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.8305] on November 15, 2009 at 00:14:36:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 23:00:45:

Hi dd,

Sounds like you've done your research and have a plan. That is good. I'm still saying prayers for the recovery of your beloved pet.

The link below looks good -- for me as a massage therapist. There are also books about acupressure for cats.

Best wishes,
Jan



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Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 15, 2009 at 07:58:19:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:28:45:

Thanks, dd.

I have always been in awe at the skills of vets who must be knowledgeable about MANY species and still diagnose them without being able to talk to them. Your experience reminds me that ALL "holistic" vets are not necessarily true physicians. Your original experience was fortunate. Perhaps you will be able to find a good one again. Holistic vets have to get a lot of postgraduate education to qualify as "holistic" honestly.

Unfortunately, I feel at a loss, except in a general way, when my pets get sick. So far, my wonderful holistic vet is still in KY and I only have a regular (though considerate) vet in Panama City. I try to fill the gap with "The Whole Dog Journal".

I think many of the obscure GI problems of cats relate somewhat to the similar problems in dogs. Back issues, dealing directly with GI problems are available via the WDJ (see the archives).

Hope this helps.

Walt


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Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 15, 2009 at 08:03:10:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 19:28:45:

Whoops, dd.

Forgot to address the gastroparesis question. One of my diabetic complications has been the development of generalized diabetic gastroparesis, for which there is no treatment. Has your kitty been tested for diabetes?

Walt


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Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents--Archive in GI.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 15, 2009 at 08:06:22:

In Reply to: Re: OT: Cat with digestive issues for Nutmeg, other cat parents posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 14, 2009 at 23:00:45:

Thanks, dd.

Walt


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Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats.

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 15, 2009 at 14:55:59:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 15, 2009 at 07:58:19:

Walt,

This is so very interesting to me. My issues in my pancreatic area
were related to my back injuries from the accident. The
accupuncture was incredible, and helped to actually allow my
structure to straighten in the injured area. Today, I feel very little
issues in that area, and I have no more issues with the pancreas at
all. I could feel back then, if I stretched certain ways, the bones
creating pressures on nerves and within a short time, I could feel the
pancreas acting up. Or, it could at times be instantaneously. Then I
learned to move in the opposite direction, created space between the
bones, and the pancreas would immediately calm down. The
accupuncture was key, as well as a bit of chiropractic, although she
never did do much adjusting there. I have no disorder now.

My boy is stiff in the hind quarters. He still runs like the dickens
when he feels good, but, he is stiff a bit in the very back. He is built
strangely. He is quite low in the front, and high in the back, with
long legs. All cats are built this way to an extent, but he is more so.

Thanks for the heads up on the archives. I'll dig in today. I started
doing gentle accupressure on him last night and he ate twice the
amount he had been eating. I also got into these very small muscles
that run between his back legs and spine. He really enjoyed it and it
livened him up. He became much more present immediately. This
morning he followed me into the kitchen, asking for more food. So,
I'll keep on this track.

dd


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Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question.

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 15, 2009 at 15:07:37:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 15, 2009 at 08:03:10:

Hi Walt,

Yes, he has been tested. But, I am not convinced that he doesn't have
a sugar problem. Most of his tests when in the office, since he was
young, came back very high normal sugars. They would always
comment on it. He is a VERY nervous guy when in at the vets, so
they kept attributing it to that. His sugar was normal when he went
a few months ago, sick. This is the first time I can remember his
sugars being in the mid normal range. But, after a 16 hour fast this
last time, his sugars were more towards the higher side of normal
again.

Hard to really say. He gets very spacey after he eats sometimes. He
just sits there, staring into space and nothing brings him out of it.
He has been this way a long time, but the vets don't say much about
it when I bring it up. They say he is not diabetic. Although, 3 years
ago, I was warned that if his blood sugar didn't come down, that he
would head towards diabetes. He has never been an obese cat. He
got kind of chubby for a small while a few years back, but never
really fat. But he is kind of lazy. I try to play with him and he just
gives out after a few minutes. He used to play hours on end,
jumping flips in the air. He isn't the same guy he once was. He is
pretty thin right now from not eating enough.

He used to drink a LOT of water. Always concerned me. But, they
said it was fine....??? Now, he doesn't want to drink, (giving him sub
q fluids daily) and his appetite is small (although much bigger last
night). These symptoms don't seem to fit diabetes, right? Don't they
usually get very thirsty and eat, although they stay thin?

Are there any better tests for diabetes?

dd


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also

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 15, 2009 at 15:37:46:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question. posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 15, 2009 at 15:07:37:

Both blood tests showed low lymphocytes. Low normal was 1500,
and his was 940. The second test came back at 1040. Even though
there were a few other things that were a bit high both times,
nothing really stuck out to the vets. The A/G ratio was a few points
over high normal, and the creatine was one point over normal....all
things were pretty consistent from test to test. So, the low
lymphocyte was the only thing that was really honesty out of sorts. I
know that can point to a number or issues, including a viral infection.
Of course, I don't know where we started, and somehow, the old
tests from 3 years ago have disappeared from two offices, so we
can't compare to that episode. I don't know what his normal count is
for him.


dd


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Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. Archive in acupuncture.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 16, 2009 at 07:07:41:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 15, 2009 at 14:55:59:

Thanks, dd.

Acupuncture did MIRACLES for my airdale "Shakti" when nothing else helped. I do not recommend it enough mainly because it is so mysterious to me that it is "magical". I think it always is worth considering.

Walt


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Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 16, 2009 at 07:13:09:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question. posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 15, 2009 at 15:07:37:

Thanks, dd.

Diabetic gastrointestinal paresis is an unusual complication of long term severe diabetes. However, that does not take into account individual variation of response.

I have never tested a cat properly for "hidden diabetes" but I am sure that the vet knows how to do it. Any isolated blood sugar is not likely to find it. See the diabetic archives for the principle in people and discuss it with the vet.

Let us know what you learn.

Walt


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Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question.

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 16, 2009 at 12:16:12:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke -- Gastroparesis question. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 16, 2009 at 07:13:09:

Thanks, Walt. I will look into this. I have to say though, that if this
mostly shows up in long term severe diabetics, that is not him. So, I
will still rule it out, because I think it is really important, but it is
sounding like this is still back to possible nerve and back issues.
I still have super high hopes for the acupuncture.

Thanks!

dd


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Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. Archive in acupuncture.

Posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 16, 2009 at 12:19:51:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. Archive in acupuncture. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 16, 2009 at 07:07:41:

Hi Walt,

You might consider trying it for your gastroparesis. The studies
showed that it helped all patients, even those with diabetes.

Acupuncture seemed magical to me too, until I had it done on myself.
You can actually feel the electrical changes, and there are immediate
effects on the table. I had one treatment where there was a trauma
release, where my eyes couldn't stop moving back and forth. That
was actually my very first treatment. Once you have treatment, you
realize that it is electrical, energetic. It really isn't magical, but very
basic to nature. You should try it!!

Thanks again,
dd


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Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. Archive in acupuncture.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on November 16, 2009 at 12:36:16:

In Reply to: Re: This is Luke WDJ may also relate to cats. Archive in acupuncture. posted by dd [11114.8212] on November 16, 2009 at 12:19:51:

Thanks, dd.

I actually took training in Electroacupuncture according to Voll and used his machine for a few years. I also had a regular electromagnetic acupuncture diagnostic and therapeutic machine. Unfortunately, unless one is dedicated to that one approach--so as to learn enough about it for effectiveness--one cannot be "dabbling" in other approaches at the same time.

As the director of this multi diagnostic and therapeutic center, I was responsible for being at least knowledgeable about 15 different modalities--in addition to being THE expert in conventional allopathic medicine and coordinating all the other modalities. I am afraid that acupuncture gradually slid into obscurity and I delegated it's practice to my Reflexologist and dentist (who was also trained in "Voll" and actualy spent a lot of his time with it.

Walt


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