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NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF?

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NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF?

Posted by Michael on February 19, 2001 at 22:10:19:

Dear Dr. Stoll:

Following are observances based on my and other's personal die-off experiences with Candida.

Agree or not, given your patients' particular die-off experiences:

1) Not all die-off has to happen immediately; it can set off in stages over several initial days or even weeks, depending on a variety of factors, i.e. diet, strain of yeast, severity of the infection overall, effectiveness of the antifungal(s), immune status, other underlying infections or toxins, parasites, etc.

2) Sometimes die-off can be delayed, depending on how chronic and long-standing the infection is, & may take time for the particular antifungal to works its way into the all the hard to reach nooks and crannies in the gut (remember, it's 10 times worse than the plumbing under a sink down there). It's my guess, but I feel this may be the case in particularly stubborn, chronic or resistant strain cases.

3)In most cases, die-off can be an amplification/exacerbation of the host's unique symptoms, so we all (me to this day) think that we're getting worse all of a sudden when it's part of a healing crisis that we must endure.

4) Unlike a typical arc reaction of a definite start and finish, a die-off episode does not always go quickly within a few hours or days and then it's all over, but may be sporadic, and last for several weeks. So, there could be multiple episodes of die-off as the medication(s) work there way through the long journey from mouth to anus.

These observations and statements may not be typical cases, but we are all unique and this is assuming the antifungal one's using IS effective in suppressing the overgrowth of yeast.

Let's hear some feedback!





this is consistent...

Posted by LT on February 20, 2001 at 22:59:06:

In Reply to: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? posted by Michael on February 19, 2001 at 22:10:19:

with my understanding...

I'm not that familiar with fungal die-off, but several bacterial diseases also have this problem, Lyme Disease being one of them. The die-off or herxheimer effect can be cyclical, depending on the life cycle of what is being killed off. The longer that "infection" has been present, the more pronounced the herx affect is and the longer treatment is needed. Symptoms are magnified, and often new symptoms will occur -- some docs may interpret this as an allergy to the meds when it is really a herx affect.



I don't know if this is relevant...

Posted by LT on February 20, 2001 at 23:09:37:

In Reply to: this is consistent... posted by LT on February 20, 2001 at 22:59:06:

but it describes the herx effect when starting antibiotic treatment for Lyme (my dog has Lyme)....

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Re: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? (Archive in candida.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on February 21, 2001 at 09:22:05:

In Reply to: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? posted by Michael on February 19, 2001 at 22:10:19:

Hi, Michael.

Good question!

Im MY experience, with many hundreds of patients who have gone through candida treatment with me, I have only had one patient who had "die-off". ALL the rest were having withdrawal from refined carbohydrates symptoms (which ALWAYS happens IF the person is not being perfect with elimination of refined carbohydrates as they must be for the first 6 months).

I got to the place where I would not even treat a candida patient until she had learned HOW to to the appropriate diet first (Beth's book.). THEN, these kind of symptoms always disappared within 3 1/2 days. All except that one patient!

As soon as they successfully eliminated 100% of refined CHO from their diets, the symptoms (previously attributed to "die-off" because of their reading) disappeared within the requisite 3 1/2 days. Screwing up on the diet invariably reproduced the symptoms within a day.

Hope this helps. Just because die-off is THEORETICALLY possible does not mean that it is of practical importance.

Die-off is RARE!

Walt



Re: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? (Archive in candida.)

Posted by Michael on February 21, 2001 at 17:16:48:

In Reply to: Re: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? (Archive in candida.) posted by Walt Stoll on February 21, 2001 at 09:22:05:

I have been on a strict anti-candida diet eliminating ALL refined carbs now for over a year, including fruits. Just complex carbs.



Re: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? (Archive in candida.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on February 23, 2001 at 14:28:10:

In Reply to: Re: NO SET RULES FOR DIE-OFF? (Archive in candida.) posted by Michael on February 21, 2001 at 17:16:48:

Hi, Michael.

That should have been enough to eliminate withdrawal within a week. Something is not right here. I would be happy to help you sort it out if you want.

Let me know.

Walt

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