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H. Pylori

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H. Pylori

Posted by
Renee [932.9385] on January 20, 2011 at 12:49:12:

Hello,

My daughter that was adopted from Ethiopia (turned 2
last week) was just diagnosed through a stool sample
with h. pylori. I am just starting to read about it,
but the doctor wants to treat her with 2 different
antibiotics and Prilosec.

I am sick about the thought of putting such a young
child on these medicines. I also wonder if this is
just the tip of the iceberg regarding the imbalance of
flora in her stomach that could be causing her symptoms
of insatiable hunger, irritability, stomach bloating,
etc. MANY children will confuse pain/discomfort in
their stomachs as hunger, and will overeat in order to
try and relieve the symptoms. But I'm not sure where
to go from here.
Most likely, her imbalance was caused by antibiotic
use to begin with, since she was on antibiotics 4 times
in her first 6 months of life while she was in the
orphanage.

Thanks for any insight,

Renee




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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by craig [4445.9313] on January 20, 2011 at 14:05:16:

In Reply to: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 20, 2011 at 12:49:12:

Hi Renee, I'm glad that at least you have apparently found the cause of your young daughters problems.
There's a lot of info available on how the sulphurophane (SP?)found in vegetables like Broccoli sprouts and .Cabbage can kill the H.Pylori bacteria.
I've also read where Sauerkraut juice (yech!) is also effective. I believe it has to be non-pasturized to be effective.
Something for you to look into. I'm not suggesting you use instead of antibiotics just providing some info you may wish to look into.
BTW, I remember your original post. So no Docs have thought of H.Pylori before? That's sad. If I'm not mistaken I think someone here even suggested it. Ron?
In any event I'm glad you found the cause!Best wishes for the cure.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 20, 2011 at 14:59:09:

In Reply to: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 20, 2011 at 12:49:12:

Hi, I had Pylori last year, I tried everything, Curcumin, Propolis, herbal mixses...nothing helped.
I had no choice but take those antybiotics, now my
stomach is in good shape, my stools are normal, no more diarea or bloating, etc. I have been on probiotics the whole time while taing antybiotics but between the doses so they wouldn't kill the good bacteria and stayed on probiotics afterwards. Don't let her eat so muh food because it feeds the Pylori
The antibiotics are right now the only answer before nmore demage is done, uncontroled Pylori can demage the lining and couse cancer in some instances.



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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Renee [932.7783] on January 20, 2011 at 16:03:45:

In Reply to: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 20, 2011 at 12:49:12:

Oh yes, I wanted to mention that if I fiind out that my daughter has actually been having stomach pain/discomfort for the past 18 months and the doctors with blinders on could have done a simple test to find out about this long ago, I don't know what I will be able to do to contain my anger.
Because she was adopted, and has been through at least two major traumatic events (being abandoned, then leaving the orphanage and her familiar surroundings to come to us), I was told over and over again that EVERYTHING was attributed to her trauma. I have spent 16 months crying over the fact that I was a terrible mother when I couldn't make her happy no matter what I did.
I cannot even describe what the stress of this situation has done to my whole family, let alone the thought that she might actually be IN PAIN, and seeking all of this comfort for a very good reason.
I'm just so brokenhearted that all of her doctors (there have been MANY) never even thought there might be something wrong with her stomach until I forced them to do more testing. Just because she was not vomiting or emaciated, they didn't see any problems.

Renee


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by AT [11797.9200] on January 20, 2011 at 16:57:12:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.7783] on January 20, 2011 at 16:03:45:

Renee, I know you haven't had the child for her entire life but still, I say that no one knows better than a mother and you should trust your instincts and consider it a gift to your child. Also, there are too many numskulls out there that call themselves professionals. Be pushy, they are being paid well enough.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 20, 2011 at 17:14:50:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.7783] on January 20, 2011 at 16:03:45:

just heard that Dr's used to think that stress Caused ulcers, till h pylori was found to be the cause of most of them, But Many People Have the bacteria, but all don't get ulcers, so back to Stress weakening the immunee system, letting the bacteria flourish, so What to do?? I'd use something that killed the Bad bacteria but wasn't an antibiotic.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 20, 2011 at 17:15:44:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.7783] on January 20, 2011 at 16:03:45:

Renee, doctors very rarely suggest test for Pylori, when I had it done it was only because I suspected it and asked them for it and it turned out positive. They were just giving me antacids (arghhh...)
they are so ignorant... in many cases of "indegestion" it is most likely pylori but they don;t bother to think about that.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 20, 2011 at 17:37:34:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 20, 2011 at 14:59:09:

Antibiotics Aren't the answer because the upset the intestonal flora, and Then you might have to reestablish the good bugs. First I would try yogurt with Active cultures,



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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 20, 2011 at 18:57:50:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 20, 2011 at 17:14:50:

Vince, I tried that...I was taking propolis for 3 months that cost me a small fortune and it didn't help, maybe in the begining it does but when it is very advanced it doesn't seem to do the job. now, after antibiotics (as much as i hate them) I have no problem, H.P. are gone and there is no more diarhea, indegestion and pains, I have normal stools and can eat without getting sick all the time. It's a relief by big R. Important is to take probiotics the whole time but not with antibiotics but 2 hours after and before and continue later.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 20, 2011 at 20:16:54:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 20, 2011 at 17:37:34:

Yogurt is not going to kill Pylori, they are too agresive. Yogurt only delivers some good bacteria if it is with active cultures and you would have to eat loads of it. Have you had Pylori? The best is supposed to be propolis as it is natural antiseptic but that even didn't help. Antibiotics will not demage much in 10 days if you take probiotics at the same time (actually two hours before and after antibiotics). I feel so much better now and for months I was misserable. When it is rampant there really isn;t much else you can do befre they destroy your stomach lining and give you ulcers or cancer.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 00:33:14:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 20, 2011 at 20:16:54:

Hi Hopeful,

Actually, ten days of antibiotics is probably too long..
A week has proven to be long enough.

see link



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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 01:02:09:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 00:33:14:

Ron, the treatment for Plori is a 10day treatment, if you stop it after 7 days, it will not work and will be wasted. Read up mpre about it... have you ever had it? That is the usual treatment, 2 antybiotics and a antacid. It worked for me, i tried to avoid it but nothing else worked. Now I feel fine and no more Pylori.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by craig [4445.9313] on January 21, 2011 at 08:34:23:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 20, 2011 at 17:37:34:

Sauerkraut is better!


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 21, 2011 at 08:59:48:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by craig [4445.9313] on January 21, 2011 at 08:34:23:

I doubt that, but one way to find out...


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by craig [4445.9313] on January 21, 2011 at 09:29:11:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 21, 2011 at 08:59:48:

The easiest way is "reading". You'll find plenty about unpasteurized Sauerkraut, Cabbage and Broccoli.
My guess Yogurt is good adjunct therapy but if you want to kill H.Pylori bacteria naturally the Sulphorophane content of the above is a much more recognized (if you read up) treatment.



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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 09:59:57:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by craig [4445.9313] on January 21, 2011 at 08:34:23:

Sourkrout will not kill Pylori.....adding a little good bacteria will not kill agressive H.P. that mulitiplied many times over and is causing a lot of demage. It is dangerous and I wouldn't wait until it causes cancer which it can do when the host's system is very weak.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 10:19:32:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 01:02:09:

Hi Hopeful,

It may be that everyone is treating for two weeks,
but that may be just because they are trying to cover their A$$es after reading the first reports of the
discoverer Dr Barry Marshall..

Later studies show this... (Maybe they have not read the later studies.)
see link



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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 10:51:29:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 21, 2011 at 08:59:48:

Vince, did you ever had Pylori and were treated for it? Trust me, without goung through it you will not know what works, I tried many natural things, they DIDN't work, antibiotics were the right resort and they worked. I feel fine. Since you didn;t have it, in your case it's just a theory. Sourkrout will not do it, rust me. It will only cause more demage because over the months ou would wait for it to work, Pylori would get nore and more rampant and cause more and more demage as it loves acidic conditions and sourkrout sure delivers a lot of acid.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 10:52:17:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 21, 2011 at 08:59:48:

Vince, did you ever had Pylori and were treated for it? Trust me, without goung through it you will not know what works, I tried many natural things, they DIDN't work, antibiotics were the right resort and they worked. I feel fine. Since you didn;t have it, in your case it's just a theory. Sourkrout will not do it, rust me. It will only cause more demage because over the months ou would wait for it to work, Pylori would get nore and more rampant and cause more and more demage as it loves acidic conditions and sourkrout sure delivers a lot of acid.


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Re: H. Pylori Corrections

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 10:53:09:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 10:52:17:

I meant to say the last resort, sorry.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 10:55:24:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 10:19:32:

Ron, 10 days is not 2 weeks. You have to take all prescribed antibiotic or you wll just shoot yourself in the foot. You can;t stop treatment couple days short.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 10:55:32:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 10:19:32:

Ron, 10 days is not 2 weeks. You have to take all prescribed antibiotic or you wll just shoot yourself in the foot. You can;t stop treatment couple days short.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 21, 2011 at 10:59:38:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 10:19:32:

they are going back to thinking stress causes ulcers, by weakening the immune system, and allowing the h pylori, which many people have with no problems, to attack the stomach lining.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 21, 2011 at 11:09:41:

In Reply to: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 20, 2011 at 12:49:12:

I was hoping that there would be a better solution, but
it doesn't sound like there is much I can do other than
the antibiotics. I was hoping Dr. Stoll had some
ideas.
I'm sure after this diagnosis that she has other
stomach issues (LGS, etc.), but I'm not sure how to
deal with that for a baby. I certainly can't teach her
SR at this age, although I can certainly increase
rocking/singing time that relaxes her so much. But in
the meantime, I need to deal with the h. pylori that
may be the source of much of her distress.

Renee


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 11:31:53:

In Reply to: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 20, 2011 at 12:49:12:

Hi Hopeful,

Don't shoot the messenger.
I did not write the Study..

Actually they said ONE WEEK was as effective as TWO

If it worked for you, you are a believer in what
was prescribed.
If you were told to take the meds for One Week,
and had the same result, you would be agreeing with
the link I posted.

Be Happy...

Could it be that your doc prescribed two weeks because
too may patients stop taking the meds when they feel better after the first week?
At least this way, they take it for the whole first week.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by AT [11797.9200] on January 21, 2011 at 11:54:54:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 11:31:53:

Ron, 90% of the time, doctors will tell you to take antibiotics for ten days. It seems to be the golden period. I don't know why but I do know that this has been the case for years and years with the exception of the newer drugs but I've never taken any so am not sure which. The z-pack might be less then ten.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 21, 2011 at 13:23:25:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Renee [932.9385] on January 21, 2011 at 11:09:41:

Renee,

I have opted out of this discussion because I have posted the mechanism of getting H. Pylori AND the solution TO it so many times (archived) I guess I have given up explaining it again.

Walt


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Ho Ron, [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 14:00:20:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 11:31:53:

I am not shooting anybody :-) It's a standard 10 day treatment so stopping it after 7 day would be sort of pointless. When antibiotics are prescribed for a certain time, they have to be taken to the end. 3 days are not going to make or break anyone.


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 14:04:55:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 21, 2011 at 10:59:38:

That is true in many cases but I doubt it would be the case with the baby, it didn;t have enough time to build so much stress in the brain. It is most likely the unsanitary living conditions before the addoption, playing in the dirty soil or food and when the stomach is very acidic due to bad nutrition, that creates perfect conditions for Pylori to multiply. I got mine on a trip to Europe, most likely at the restaurant because I started having problems when I came back from a trip.


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Re: H. Pylori Oops...

Posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 14:06:59:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 11:31:53:

Oops, first it was supposed to be Hi Ron and not in place of my nick :-)


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by renee [932.9385] on January 21, 2011 at 15:18:48:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 21, 2011 at 13:23:25:

Hi Dr. Stoll,

I KNOW you have posted this many times, and I am in
the process of reading the lengthy archive postings.
But please be aware that when you have a MISERABLE baby
and are looking for answers, in addition to all the
self-educating, etc., that I am doing, I was just
hoping for a little insight that would help me along in
my journey and perhaps quicken my decision process a
little bit as to whether to treat her with the
antibiotics.
I understand full well that we are dealing with LGS
here. I understand WHY she has H. pylori infection.
I understand only too well that it is no quick fix, and
that I have A LOT of reading and learning to do. I
have ordered and started to read books, I read as much
as I can daily in the archives on this site. I am
trying desperately to find a doctor in my state that is
a naturopath that can advise me during this process.
But I also have to point out that reading the
archives and understanding things doesn't substitute
for having a person you can ask a question to, like how
to have a baby do SR, which your archives state is the
MAIN way to deal with LGS. I don't even know where to
start looking for that answer, which is the main reason
I came here for your advice. You are perhaps the ONLY
doctor I trust (so far), and I don't know where else to
turn.

I'm dealing with a lot in my life, and was just
hoping for a little support from like-minded people,
which are hard to find in real life.

I'm sorry I am a pest for asking a question others
have asked before. I understand where you are coming
from, but I wish you could see where I'm coming from
living for 16 months with a baby who is miserable and I
haven't been able to make her happy at all because
quite possible she feels sick

I will keep reading and hopefully find a doctor
that can help me.

Thanks,

Renee


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Re: H. Pylori Oops...

Posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 17:06:10:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori Oops... posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 14:06:59:

Hi Ho,

;-) I figured that out.

You should have seen the number of times I have responded to Phillylady and called her Sapphire...
or was it the other way around?


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Re: H. Pylori Oops...

Posted by Hopeful [1808.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 17:56:05:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori Oops... posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 21, 2011 at 17:06:10:

We are only human :-))


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 22, 2011 at 07:25:47:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by renee [932.9385] on January 21, 2011 at 15:18:48:

Thanks, Renee.

I do not think that treating the present diagnosis (antibiotics) is a bad thing for temporary relief--remembering, of course, that it probably was antibiotics that set her off onto this tangent. At this age, probably the perfect WFD and copius probiotics are the best you can do. It will still probably take years to actually resolve this.

Just remember that H. Pylori is a normal presence in the normally functioning gut. It is only when the rest of the gut ecology is upset that the H. Pylori can escape from control and cause symptoms.

Hope this helps.

Walt


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 22, 2011 at 14:33:18:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 22, 2011 at 07:25:47:

Hi Walt,

The article I linked states that Helicobacter is
present in about HALF of the US population..
Does that make it normal or is it mainly due to the
new Immigrants who came from areas where sanitation
was inadequate to prevent the transmission to Humans?

Remember a few years ago, we had a poster here, who became ill after a date with a new partner?
It makes me say Hmmmmmmmm?



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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 22, 2011 at 16:22:52:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Ron [5412.9304] on January 22, 2011 at 14:33:18:

Thanks, Ron.

Tell me again in about 20 years. It surely takes these "experts" a long time to catch up with science.

Walt


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by renee [932.9385] on January 22, 2011 at 22:13:26:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 22, 2011 at 07:25:47:

Thanks Dr. Stoll. I know I have a lot of work to do
to heal her stomach, and I'm going to start by
rereading your book and everything else I can get my
hands on. The thing is, your explanations are the only
ones that make any sense to me, so I thank you for
having this place for us to find the TRUE answers for
most illnesses today.
One quick question: When the Dr. said my daughter
has H. Pylori, how do I know that the stool antigen
test wasn't just picking up a "normal" amount of h.
pylori that "should" be there. I don't think I worded
that correctly, but I hope you understand what I'm
saying. If EVERYONE has H. Pylori in their gut,
wouldn't EVERYONE test positive? How do I know it is
overgrown? Would a "normal" amount of H. Pylori still
show up in the stool test?

Since SR is the most important part of healing LGS,
and my daughter is so little still, how do I replicate
that for her? Is there a source/book, etc., that can
help me with this aspect? I have not found anything
that deals with SR with very young children.

Thanks again,

Renee


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by VF [12036.8753] on January 22, 2011 at 23:09:36:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 14:04:55:

This sounds Mighty stressful...


Because she was adopted, and has been through at least two major traumatic events (being abandoned, then leaving the orphanage and her familiar surroundings to come to us), I was told over and over again that EVERYTHING was attributed to her trauma. I have spent 16 months crying over the fact that I was a terrible mother when I couldn't make her happy no matter what I did.
I cannot even describe what the stress of this situation has done to my whole family, let alone the thought that she might actually be IN PAIN, and seeking all of this comfort for a very good reason.
I'm just so brokenhearted that all of her doctors (there have been MANY) never even thought there might be something wrong with her stomach until I forced them to do more testing. Just because she was not vomiting or emaciated, they didn't see any problems.



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Re: H. Pylori--the aura of RR and children--Archive

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.9196] on January 23, 2011 at 07:54:43:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by renee [932.9385] on January 22, 2011 at 22:13:26:

Thanks, Renee.

"Meditating with Children" by Deborah Rozman. Just putting yourself in the RR with the babe in arms, or even just in the room, creates the RR in the babe. Available at your lending library.

The tests for H. Pylori overgrowth are still in their infancy and so are not very accurate.

Hope this helps.

Walt


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Re: H. Pylori

Posted by Ron [3468.9304] on January 27, 2011 at 18:13:24:

In Reply to: Re: H. Pylori posted by Hopeful [8111.9323] on January 21, 2011 at 14:04:55:

Hi Hopeful,

If you have been handing her over the last year,
there is a good chance that you have been reinfected..
through saliva, even by sharing a spoon.

If she is treated, you can reinfect her the same way.

Pets can also carry Helicobacter and infect their
owners/servants.


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