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Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by Kornbelt on June 14, 2001 at 17:51:38:



Hello all. Has anyone here had leaky gut (diagnosed with
lactulose/mannitol test) and healed it? I've been stuggling with this
problem for about 1.5 years. Experimented with anti-fungals (garlic,
oil of oregano, caprylic acid, etc) to see if I got candida die-off.
I did. I haven't done the lactulose/mannitol test yet to confirm my
self-diagnoses of leaky gut, but everything fits.

This is the toughest damn thing I've face in my life. I used to be
able to eat anything and everything. Now, I continally fight
constipation. I'm reduced to lettuce, spinach, broccoli (etc), and
white fish, pure soy protein power, and flax seeds. I just started
this radical diet and it seems to help. Everything else I eat causes
more mental spacy-ness, and at time I get downright "wierd" spells
where I feel rather "disconnected" from my body, very weak, and
fearful. (The first time this happened I was driving down the
freeway. I thought I was dying. It was pure hell. The second time I
raced my car to the ER. They couldn't find anything wrong. Sound
familiar?) It feels like VERY low blood sugar, but one time during a
spell my blood sugar was 120, and one time it was 69, so it probably
isn't that.

I'm following the advice of Leo Galland MD. His article on the
subject of leaky gut is the best I've seen.

I wanna to know if anyone here has actually conquered this beast.
It's a damnable affair, and it's been ruining my life. PLEASE, give
me some success stories to hang on to while I eat the rabbit food.

Thanks,
Kornbelt






Kornbelt...

Posted by Kimberly on June 14, 2001 at 19:13:21:

In Reply to: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Kornbelt on June 14, 2001 at 17:51:38:

Go to the archives and read the post from S.H.A.P.E., he has some very good posts.

Follow Ups:


Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS

Posted by Helping you on June 15, 2001 at 13:54:20:

In Reply to: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Kornbelt on June 14, 2001 at 17:51:38:

I sympathize. I have been there and can validate everything you are saying. I struggled with it for more than 5 years. I became an expert on the subject just by experimenting, reading, and learning from many great physicians and nutritionists.

In my opinion, testing is of the Utmost importance in eliminating this thing. Anything else is just guessing. There are small list of tests I would start out with. sometimes, this is all you need to get to the bottom of your problems. Here they are along with the reccommended lab to use:

1) Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis with Parasitology
* Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab
* Uncovers function of pancreas, digestive enzymes,
absorption, colonic flora, pathogenic flora, and
shows which medications/herbs are most effective at
getting rid of YOUR specific "bug", can give general
idea of inflammation in small intestine
2) Intestinal Permeability Essay
* GSDL
* This test is a must. It shows a lot more than just
increased permeabiltiy. It shows malabsorption too
3) Food Allergy Testing (All subclasses of IgG) (IgE)
* Immuno Labs
* 95% reproducibility = this means it is VERY accurate
4) Gluten/Gliadin essay
* Immuno Labs
* Contributes to malabsorption in the gluten-sensitive
5) Liver Detoxification Profile
* GDSL
* Shows impaired detoxification in Phase 1 and Phase 2
* Gives a good idea of general toxicity from the LGS
6) Heidelburg gastric analysis
* Referal doctor
* Diagnoses low, normal, high stomach acid (IMMEDIATE
RESULTS AVAILABLE)
7) Loomis 24 hour Urinalysis
* Referal doctor
* Diagnoses enzyme deficiencies
8) Urinary Toxic Element
* GDSL
* Identifies heavy metals in your body

If you want to probe further here are a few more tests that can complete the picture in many cases:

1) Saliva hormone panel
* Testosterone, DHEA, Pregnenolone, Melatonin, Growth
hormone, TSH, T4, T3, Etrogen (Free hormones only)
2) ASI (Adrenal Stress Index)
* Shows your cortisol levels over a 24 hours period.
Can spot patterns in stress and hormone output
3) Oxidative Damage
* Shows extent of Free radical damage to your body
4) Viral testing (EBV, Lymme, CVB, etc..)

Of course there are many others but in the case of LGS, the first 7 I believe are crucial. You will have such an indepth view of what is going on, you can make educational decisions instead of guessing. For example, lets say the CDSA uncovers Klebsiella. Well then. You can take tannalbit because it is effective against this pathogen. If you have h.pylori, you can take DGL and Bismuth salts. You can tailor this perfect for you so that you get well sooner rather than later. You might not have ANY pathogens and you are merely wasting your time. Find a good nutritionally-oriented wholistic physician that practices complimentry medicine and get these tests done. Then, come back with your results if you have questions.

In the meantime, I will give you some general ideas to help if you are unable to get the testing done.

DIGESTION

To optimize digestion, try food combining. In my opinion, this is SCIENCE and not Quackery. To summarize, certain foods need a certain medium in the stomach to be digested. Protein needs an acid medium and starch needs an alkaline medium. If you eat protein and starch together (meat and potatoes, Chicken and Rice) these 2 mediums neutralize each other and your food will not digest properly. You will have feelings of food just sitting there. So, the basic rules are as follows. Follow it perfectly for one week and see the results for yourself. Don't take my word for it:

1) Eat Protein with vegetables
2) Eat starch with vegetables and oil
3) Eat fruits alone on an empty stomach first thing in the
morning only. Wait 30 minutes before eating any other
foods
4) Wait 3 hours between a protein and starch meal

Usually, within a couple days, symptoms like gas, bloating, and indigestion are relieved. Try it and see.

Eating processed foods will guarantee you that you will not get results because these foods ofen have many incompatible ingredients together. Just consider that humans are the only creatures on earth that eat many foods together. You never saw a bird with rolaids in its mouth :) Animals usually eat one food at a time. since this is inconvienent to do, we can at least obey the laws of physiology and eat compatible foods together. For a more detailed explaination, see "FIT FOR LIFE", or THE HAY DIET".

Next consideration is DIGESTIVE ENZYMES

When you get that "spaced out" feeling, this is an allergic reaction. Plain and simple. If you can't get the Loomis 24 urinalysis, at least pick a plant enyzme supplement that has the complete range of enzymes and take 2 or more before meals. These pre-digest the food in your stomach and they take the burden off the pancreas and small intestine.

You may also need HCL. Then again, you may not. The best method for identifying this is the Heidelburg Gastric Analysis. If you can't do this, you can to an HCL challange. Start with taking 1 600mg capsule of HCL bound to pepsin at your next meal. Increase by 1 capsule at each meal of the same size until you get burning, warmth, or heartburn. When this happens, it means you took 1 too many caps for that meal. Reduce by one cap and maintain this dosage at each meal of the same size. If your symptoms dispell, you may need HCL, if not, you probably don't need it. If you get burning from only 1 or 2 capsules, you SHOULD NOT TAKE HCL. You may actually be producing TOO MUCH stomach acid. If this is the case, try the following.

After your next meal, take 1 serving of aklaselzer gold (sodium bicarbonate). If this dispells the symptoms, you may be producing too much acid. Still, the gastric analysis is clear cut and there is no guessing. HCL is needed to digest proteins, absorb certain mineral, it kills harmful bacteria, and it activates pancreatic enzymes. Too much can scar the small intestine and lead to malabsorption.

ELIMINATION.

You need to eliminate well. If not, the toxins stay in your gut, you putrefy proteins, you ferment your carbs, and you get bloating, gass, parasites, candida, LGS and intestinal toxemia. In fact, your whole body becomes toxic because you re-absorb these endotoxins that sit in the intestines.

Food combining will do much to eliminate this problem. The next thing you should do, is increase high-water content fruits and vegetables. This will make sure that your transit time is speedy. The fiber will bind the toxins and take them out of your body. Cut down on dry breads, meats, nuts (don't eliminate, just don't make them main meals). Eat more vegetables, fruits like berries and apples, beans like lentils, EFA's. You can take a fiber supplement but if you are eating like this, you will probably not need it. Increasing fiber too fast can cause intestinal problems anyway.

Doing exercises like walking, re-bounding, abdominal crunches, and aerobics also speeds up transit time.

INTESTINAL MICROBES

This subject can take up several posts just by itself. Gas and bloating are caused by bacteria acting on undigested or partially-digested food. Sometimes it is merely normal microbes doing this. It is hard to tell unless you are tested. Enzymes and HCL destroy these bad guys. Antifungals are good but these also disrupt your benefical flora. There are a few, however, that do not disrupt the normal flora. Here they are:

1) Olive Leaf Extract
2) Grapefruit Seed Extract
3) Artesimia

Garlic may be ok too but I believe too much can disrupt normal flora.

Probiotics will eventuall knock out these critters but you have to get their numbers down first. This is why testing is essential. It tells you how bad you have it. Then, once their numbers are reduced, you can take probiotics. Here are some of the best:

1) Primal Defense = Soil-based Organisms
2) Flora Source
3) Ultra Flora
4) Saccharomyces Boulardi (benficial yeast)
5) L. Salivarius (digests proteins)
6) L. Plantarum
7) Acidophilus DDS
8. Lactobacillius G.G (Culturelle)

INTESTNAL INFLAMMATION/INCREASED PERMEABILITY

Food allergies, chocolate, caffeine, drugs, sugar, alcohol and NSAID'S are the biggest causes of inflammation. A whole foods diet free of allergens and eaten in proper sequence is essential in controling inflatiion. Probiotics also reduce inflammation considerably while pathogens increase it. Protease enzymes can also worsen inflammation. This is sad because most people with LGS NEED protease to digest proteins. One of the most trouble-free brands is WobenzymeN.

Some substances that decrease inflammation are marshmallow root, Slippery elm, FOS, Aloe vera, L-glutamine, DGL, Skullcap, Fenugreek, ginger, prorbiotics, SeaCure, peppermint, antioxiants, butyrate (found in butter), Gamma oryzanol. Ultra Clear Sustain is a rice-based product that helps with LGS/Inflammation. This product should only be used after you KNOW that bugs are GONE!

L-glutamine deservs special mention. This is the single most important for intestinal health. Very few people who take L-glutamine on a regular basis suffer from LGS. you can take between 5-15g a day on an empty stomach.

STRESS

The stress of fighting something as large as this is undoubtedly overwhelming. Surfice it to say that I do not need to mention the importance of SR in healing LGS. This has been played out on this board as long as I can remember. It is vital and you will not heal your LGS permanently until you are capable of doing this properly. Just a note: Most TYPE A's out there suffer LGS. These types DESPERATELY NEED SR. I know. I am one of them. We are so high strung and fast paced that we can't slow down. Our digestive system are STARVING for nutrients.

FOOD SENSTIVITIES

These are a consequence of LGS. one goes with the other. One worsens the other. There are a few ways of breaking the cycle. I won't go into great detail but I will give some suggestions that work.

1) Food rotation = eating the same foods every day will lead to allergy. This is basically fact. Only eat the same foods once every 4 days. This is enough not only to prevent new allergies but this will begin to treat the allergies you have and your immune system will slowly start reacting to them.

2) Digestive Enzymes = simply stated, if the food is broken down well (especially protein), you will prevent food allergies from forming. Pancreatic enzymes work really well for this

3) EPD (Enzyme Potentiated Desensitization) = I believe this is the best way to treat allergies when all else has failed. Do a search for it and learn about it. NAET is another protocol but it doesn't always work.

4) FOod combining = If you can digest the combination, you are not likely to form an allergy to it.

I hope you and others will be able to use this information. Print this out so you don't have to keep coming back to this post. There is a lot of information here. Take care and get well




Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS

Posted by
Queen Candida on June 15, 2001 at 14:59:07:

In Reply to: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS posted by Helping you on June 15, 2001 at 13:54:20:

Questions for Helping You:

What terrific advice! I'm new to the board; Helping You, who are you (in terms of medical training)? You seem to know a lot about this. Are you a doctor of some sort, or are you someone who has had quite a medical past and has been forced to learn all of this through trail and error? I had a CDSA done, and I'm having all sorts of problems. I'm trying to find someone else who could look at my results and give me an opinion on what I should do.

Also, I have never heard of the Heidelburg gastric analysis. Where could I get this done?

Thanks for all of the information!



Re: Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by PeterB on June 15, 2001 at 17:18:25:

In Reply to: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Kornbelt on June 14, 2001 at 17:51:38:

You may want to research the effects of soy if you haven't done so already. Soy contains phytoestrogens that mimic the effects of hormones in the body. Read the article at this link. Click.



Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS

Posted by Helping you on June 15, 2001 at 18:39:54:

In Reply to: Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS posted by Queen Candida on June 15, 2001 at 14:59:07:

I am someone who has researched this for many years and have learned from physicians, nutritionists and others who have healed. I am always learning and picking up new information.

Post your results. I would be happy to give my opinion to you. Then, you can take those recommendations to your doctor and see what he/she says about it.

The Heidelburg gastric analysis is done by many doctors. The best way is to do a search on the net for this test. Lots of times it shows a list of doctors.

Another way is to pick up this book available in many book stores:
"Alternative Medicine Definitive Guide"
Chronic Fatigue
Fibromyalgia &
Environmental Illness

This is the title of the book. There are a bunch of books in this series that have the top line as the main title, then, below, will be a different topic of discussion like arthritis, heart disease and so on. These are some of the best books on alternative medicine that are out there. They contain many many protocols and they list many doctors and referals for tests including this test.

Let me know if this helps.




Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS

Posted by Queen Candida on June 15, 2001 at 19:35:26:

In Reply to: Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS posted by Helping you on June 15, 2001 at 18:39:54:

Thank you so much. I can't believe how helpful you are (Well, hence, your pen name, right?). I will look for that book right away. I will certainly take you up on my CDSA results. Here they are, and once again, I really appreciate your help:

Digestion:
Triglycerides: 0.2
Chymotrpysin: 28.0
Valerate, isoButyrate: 4.4
Meat fibers in stool: occasional
Vegetable fibers: 3 (inside range)

Absorption:
LCFAs: 0.6
Cholesterol: 0.3
Total Fecal Fat: 1.1
Total SCFAs: 64

Colonic Environment:
Metabolic Markers-
n-Butyrate: 9.2
Beta-Glucurondase: 14
pH: 7.5
SCFA Distribution-
% Acetate: 65
% Propionate: 20
% n-Butyrate: 14
Immunology-
Fecal lactoferrin: negative

Bacteriology:
Beneficial Bacteria-
lactobacillus species: N 2+
Escherichia coli: N 4+
Bifidobacterium: No Growth
Additional Bacteria-
alpha haemolytic streptococcus: N 4+
gamma haemolytic streptococcus: N 3+
Bacillus species: N 1+
Mycology-
Candida Albicans: P 4+

Macroscopic:
Color: brown
Mucus: negative
Occult blood: negative

Bacterial Dysbiosis Index: 12

Yeast Sensitivity:
Prescriptive Agents-
Fluconazole: S <=0.5
Itraconzole: S <=0.5
Ketoconazole: S <=0.5
Nystatin: R =50
Natural Substances-
Berberine: R=500
Caprylic Acid: R >500
Garlic: I =500
Undecylenic Acid: R=1000
Plant tannins: =160
Uva-Ursi: >500

Parasitology: Blastocystis Hominus
Cryptosporidium EIA: negative
Entamoeba histolytic EIA: negative
Giardia EIA: negative




Interpretation of CDSA

Posted by Helping you on June 16, 2001 at 01:06:41:

In Reply to: Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS posted by Queen Candida on June 15, 2001 at 19:35:26:

According to your results, you are suffering from imbalanced flora and an alkaline colon. Your absorption and digestion are good. I am not suprised that your Bifidobacterium is so low. Bifidus cannot survive in an alkaline pH. Candida, however, thrives in it. You must change the environment of your colon so that candida cannot live there anymore. Using your Yeast sensitivity chart, you can set up a treatment to eliminate your candida which is your first step. A flora supplement worth starting right now is PRIMAL DEFENSE (www.crohns.net). This product is a soil-based bacteria product that survives stomach acid, implants in the colon REGARDLESS of colonic environment, and has direct action against candida. soil bacteria also re-establish a slightly acidic pH. Other flora supplements are worthless right now. Start this flora supplement, get on your anti-candida supplements (according to what your doctor orders for you) and repeat the test in a month. At least your digestion and absorption are good. When I first started out, ALL my values were low, indicating that my body was shutting down. You are in considerably better shape than I was and I still healed so don't despair. If you have any further questions just ask




Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! (Struggling?)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 16, 2001 at 09:08:43:

In Reply to: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Kornbelt on June 14, 2001 at 17:51:38:

Hi, Kornbelt.

What, exactly, besides "struggling" have you been doing about this?

Anything that has not worked a lot within 6-12 months is obviously not what YOU should be doing!

Walt



Re: Interpretation of CDSA

Posted by Queen Candida on June 16, 2001 at 14:24:53:

In Reply to: Interpretation of CDSA posted by Helping you on June 16, 2001 at 01:06:41:

Thank you very much! That certainly makes sense. I'm struggling with getting rid of the Candida in a safe way; the yeast sensitivity chart revealed that the Candida is resistent to ALL of the natural substances (with the exception of intermediate sensitivity to garlic). That leaves me to take stuff like Diflucan, and frankly, I'm paranoid of taking that stuff; my doctor wants for me to be on it for 3 weeks. My stomach is so, so, so sensitive right now to the slightest upset (My symptoms are listed on a post; I also go by the name "Confused" and posted "GI & abdominal muscle trouble" on June 7, 2001.), and I'm scared of what the Diflucan might do to me. I'd really like to go a more natural route. I don't know if there are effective ways to get rid of it other than using the stuff on the chart....You mentioned the Primal Defense; do you think that if I took that for long enough and got my colon acidic again, that the Candida would eventually lose its ability to colonize? Or do you think that I'm stuck with the reality that I'm going to have to be more aggressive about it? Thank you again. I really, really appreciate your comments.



Re: Interpretation of CDSA

Posted by Kornbelt on June 16, 2001 at 19:13:15:

In Reply to: Re: Interpretation of CDSA posted by Queen Candida on June 16, 2001 at 14:24:53:

Have you tried Candex, the cellulase enzyme?

KB



Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! (Struggling?)

Posted by Kornbelt on June 16, 2001 at 19:16:34:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! (Struggling?) posted by Walt Stoll on June 16, 2001 at 09:08:43:

By struggling, I mean I was living with it without knowing what I had. I thought I "just" had a candida problem. Then I came to realize LGS was likely as well. I have made rapid progress since I started my paleo-diet and healing substances. But I'm interested in hearing *success* stories here for moral support's sake.

KB



Re: Interpretation of CDSA

Posted by Queen Candida on June 16, 2001 at 19:17:06:

In Reply to: Re: Interpretation of CDSA posted by Kornbelt on June 16, 2001 at 19:13:15:

No, I haven't. I've actually never heard of it. Please tell me more about it. Thank you for your post, KB!



Re: Interpretation of CDSA

Posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 00:46:01:

In Reply to: Re: Interpretation of CDSA posted by Queen Candida on June 16, 2001 at 14:24:53:

YES!! I think the PD would help. Eventually it WILL get rid of the problem but it could be months. Remember, they don't test the yeast to EVERY natural substance. You could try Olive leaf, Oil of oregano, tee tree oil, berberine, DC3. The best way to take these items is to take them individually for 4 days. Then, move to a different herb for 4 days, then a different herb. Rotate every 4 days or the candida will become immune to it.

Your diet can also starve the yeast. For the first month, eat no fruit, no starchy vegetables if you can, and only eat meat and vegetables and oil. If you can tolerate it you will get LOTS of die-off. In the 2nd month, you can start having 1 serving of a starchy carb or grain. If all goes well, you can add 1 serving of low-sugar fruit in month 3 like granny smith apple, ANY of the berries. After 3 months, test your stool again and see where you are.


Follow Ups:


Re: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS (Archive in LGS.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 17, 2001 at 09:03:51:

In Reply to: Healed it with flying colors!!!!!!!!!! For Anyone who needs info on LGS posted by Helping you on June 15, 2001 at 13:54:20:

Thanks, Helping!

Wonderful description of one process that includes so many of the things we have discussed here on this BB for many years.

Namaste`

Walt

Follow Ups:


Cellulase Enzymes Yeast Killer

Posted by Kornbelt on June 17, 2001 at 13:53:39:

In Reply to: Re: Interpretation of CDSA posted by Queen Candida on June 16, 2001 at 19:17:06:

Candex is a high concentration of cellulase enzyme. Instead of killing the yeast by poisoning (which all the antifungals do) cellulase eats the cellulose wall of the yeast. The difference is that yeast death by the latter method produces very low (or no) die off reaction. This fact allows the dosage to be very high, and yeast killing to be very rapid. (The makers of Candex says the six day bottle is enough for mild to moderate cases. 12 days for stubborn cases.) It is not exactly clear on why this is, but it is thought to be due to fact that normally (using antifungals which poison the yeast to death, producing even more acetylaldehyde and ammonia than the yeast normally does) the yeast produces toxic by products as a function of it's survival. However, cellulase kills the yeast too fast for the yeast to react in self-defense. Cellulase actually digests the cell walls of the yeast before the yeast "knows what hit it", before it has a chance to release toxins in "die-off" quantities as it normally does using the poisoning antifungal methods.

I've been using it and it works vastly better and faster than anything else I've tried. I was very dubious when I first encountered the claims of the makers of Candex. But I called them and chatted with one of the guys who discovered this approach, and decided to try it. I did, and it worked very well. The only side effect I noticed was a slight gassy feeling in my guts, and a bit of "wind passing" after that. None of the typical die-off effects that I had with other substances, which included dry mouth, anxiety feelings, tiredness, etc.

There may be others now packaging cellulase enzyme for candida killing, but I don't know any. If you can find a cheap source for cellulase enzyme, by all means buy it. You need to take about 220,000 CUs on arising one hour before your first meal, and the same at night 2 hours after your last meal. If you take it too close to a meal, the cellulase will digest the cellulose in your meal, instead of digesting the skins off of the candida.

I still take other antifungals now for maintenance while I'm healing my leaky gut sitation. Particularly, caprylic acid, which has the unique property of getting down into the intestinal walls where the fungal form of candida lives. I don't think cellulase can do that, so I'm not taking any chances.

Hope this helps.

KB




Regarding Cellulase enzymes

Posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 15:14:19:

In Reply to: Cellulase Enzymes Yeast Killer posted by Kornbelt on June 17, 2001 at 13:53:39:

This is an excellent point!! This is a great idea and it DOES work. I have used it. High doses of bromelain together with te cellulase seems to product better results while decreasing that "gassy" feeling. Bromelain ALSO digests the coating off the yeast so it may be a better option than one or the other.

I am begining to think that certain bacteria can utilize cellulase enzymes and ferment it causing gas. I used to only think that the insoluble fiber celllose caused this but I am changing my view. I have seen gas increase after taking cellulase enzymes. This could also be a form of die-off. I tend to lean towards the other microbes fermenting it because I have seen this happen in people who were candida-free. More research is needed.



Re: Cellulase Enzymes Yeast Killer

Posted by JJ on June 17, 2001 at 18:12:10:

In Reply to: Cellulase Enzymes Yeast Killer posted by Kornbelt on June 17, 2001 at 13:53:39:

I agree - this is the best product I have found. If your local health food store doesn't carry it, have them call Health Naturally (1-850-584-8800) so they can order it for their store. Everyone with Candida should have the opportunity to get this product and experience better health quickly.

Follow Ups:


Re: Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by
Serge C. on June 17, 2001 at 22:33:07:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by PeterB on June 15, 2001 at 17:18:25:

Hi PeterB,

I have read this article very quickly. It sounds not very reassuring. In the last year I pushed my girlfriend to use soy milk instead of cow's milk. Now she is pregnant. Would it be safer for her to avoid it?

I wonder what Dr. Stoll think about it?

However, there is something strange about that story. Asian peoples eat a lot of soy (compared to us) and they are very smart on the average. Also, many of them live very old. What can we conclude about it?

Serge



Re: Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 23:02:06:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Serge C. on June 17, 2001 at 22:33:07:

Asians are geared more to handle soy than Americans. It has been used for thousands of years in their culture. Also, it may not be the soy in their diets but rice, high amounts of vegetables, and fermented foods that do it.

Personally, I believe soy is not something to use every day unless you are purposely trying to consume phytoestrogens for a specific reason. If she is pregnant, I would not take the chance. I would get off soy. I would not drink ANY liquid milk. Only yogurt made from Goat's milk. Goat's milk is closest to human milk and contains NO casein which is highly allergic. She can always take calcium supplements. Soy and cow's milk are BOTH a bad idea from my view and the view of actual authorities on the subject. I have just done the research and concluded for myself that soy is best avoided unless it is fermented.

Follow Ups:


Re: Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by PeterB on June 17, 2001 at 23:51:31:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Serge C. on June 17, 2001 at 22:33:07:

I agree with "Helping." I also wonder if the smaller frames and higher metabolisms of asians could be the hormonal effects of soy (hyperthyroidism?). Apparently, the percentage of soy in the Asian diet is not as high as some believe. Af for longetivity, I think it can be attributed to many other factors. I do feel the agri-conglomerates like monsanto have found the ideal crop for processed food economics, and are feeding the propaganda machine while stuffing Americans with soy. Scientifically, there just isn't compelling evidence that soy is a "perfect" food.

Follow Ups:


Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! (Struggling?)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 18, 2001 at 10:46:04:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! (Struggling?) posted by Kornbelt on June 16, 2001 at 19:16:34:

Hi, Kornbelt.

Not a bad idea. Have you seen some of the testimonials in the LGS archives and in the testimonial archives?

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Thank you to all

Posted by Queen Candida on June 18, 2001 at 12:06:45:

In Reply to: Regarding Cellulase enzymes posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 15:14:19:

Helping you, KB, JJ, THANK YOU so much for your posts. I have another question now. Helping You, you suggested that I take the Primal Defense and thought it would be the most effective for this problem. Would Candex be better? Also, if Candex is better, then will my colon still get re-acidified so I can start putting the "good guys" back in successfully?



Re: Thank you to all

Posted by Helping you on June 18, 2001 at 13:11:46:

In Reply to: Re: Thank you to all posted by Queen Candida on June 18, 2001 at 12:06:45:

Would Candex be better? Not necessarily. Candex will digest the yeast and ease off on die-off. I don't know if it can be used all by itself to eliminate a candida infection as high as yours. I would use the Candex but I would also include antifungals (The Primal Defense will work but it will take longer. The primal Defense is also what acidify's the GI tract. That, and taking bifidus and acidophilus which you cannot take right now)

My feeling is that you need to use the Candex, antifungals, diet restriction, and some kind of fiber supplement until the level is low enough to start the Primal Defense. Antifungals will kill The bacteria in Primal Defense which is why it is one or the other for now. Since your Candida is a 4+, I would opt for the antifungals (The exotic ones that we talked about). Then, when your symptoms improve or your tests get better (you should get candida to 1+ before switching to PD), you can add the PD to it. Focus on killing it right now and removing it from the body. You will get better faster.



Re: Thank you to all

Posted by Ben There on June 18, 2001 at 13:28:17:

In Reply to: Re: Thank you to all posted by Helping you on June 18, 2001 at 13:11:46:

Several friends have obtained complete relief from candida by taking brewer's yeast daily - the powder, not the tablets. One lady's 7 year history was eliminated in 7 days! Most folks are afraid to try it since they've been told to avoid yeast - but brewer's yeast has an entirely different effect on the body than that of baker's yeast. Too simple, I know - but very effective and quick.

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Re: Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by Kornbelt on June 18, 2001 at 16:22:12:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by PeterB on June 15, 2001 at 17:18:25:

What you write here may be true, however, protein *isolates* (such as the powder I use) generally do not have any untoward phytates and quasi-hormones, etc. And the aminos are much easier to assimilate.

KB

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Good advice, Helping You nmi

Posted by JJ on June 18, 2001 at 21:17:15:

In Reply to: Re: Thank you to all posted by Helping you on June 18, 2001 at 13:11:46:

.

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220,000 CUs???

Posted by trish on June 18, 2001 at 23:18:22:

In Reply to: Cellulase Enzymes Yeast Killer posted by Kornbelt on June 17, 2001 at 13:53:39:

How does that (220,000 CUs ) translate into mgs?
Thanks!



How much bromelain..

Posted by trish on June 18, 2001 at 23:22:37:

In Reply to: Regarding Cellulase enzymes posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 15:14:19:

How much bromelain should I take?
Thanks,
Trish

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Re: Leaky Gut Blues !

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 19, 2001 at 09:29:12:

In Reply to: Re: Leaky Gut Blues ! posted by Serge C. on June 17, 2001 at 22:33:07:

Hi, Serge.

Listen to both Helping & PeterB.

In MY experience the reasons to substitute soy for cow's milk is to get a better calcium/phosphorus ratio, avoid the antibiotics and hormones in cow's milk AND, of course, allegy to caseine or intolerance to lactose. Looks like a long list doesn't it :>).

Try almond milk.

Walt

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Re: 220,000 CUs???

Posted by Kornbelt on June 19, 2001 at 09:57:42:

In Reply to: 220,000 CUs??? posted by trish on June 18, 2001 at 23:18:22:

Judging by the weight and amount of the power in the capsules I've taken, I'd say about 1.5 to 2 grams.

KB



That's milligrams, right?

Posted by trish on June 19, 2001 at 10:29:47:

In Reply to: Re: 220,000 CUs??? posted by Kornbelt on June 19, 2001 at 09:57:42:

Are you talking milligrams? I took three tablets last night of each and oh boy!!.. this morning my nose is in overdrive.
Sorry, don't mean to be gross, but an incredible amount of thick clear mucus and much sneezing. I keep thinking 'it's die-off! They're dying! hip hip horray!!!!



Re: Regarding Cellulase enzymes: how much?

Posted by trish on June 19, 2001 at 10:48:11:

In Reply to: Regarding Cellulase enzymes posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 15:14:19:

The multi-enzyme formula I'm taking has 50 mg of bromelain in each tablet. I'm taking three in the mornings. Is that enough? Is this info in the archives?

Yesterday, before I started taking it and caprylic acid, I felt really distended. I'd gone off the candida diet after being on it for 2 and a half weeks (had my birthday, graduation and celebrated Father's day). I guess I didn't kill as much yeast initially as I thought I did. Now I'm back on it:meat and veggies only. Got a lovely dull headache, too. If these enzymes will help get rid of this faster I'd love it.
Also, I'm going to wait to start primal defense, too.
Thanks for your help!



regarding cellulase and bromelain

Posted by helping you on June 19, 2001 at 13:28:21:

In Reply to: Re: Regarding Cellulase enzymes: how much? posted by trish on June 19, 2001 at 10:48:11:

no. the dosage has to be much higher. The cellulase should be what you read above (220,000 Cu's). This method of measurement is different from milligrams, USP units, or HUT. It is difficult to convert them. You almost need a chart. But this is what seems to work. Bromelain? You need about 200mg 3x a day between meals. take care




Thanks!

Posted by trish on June 19, 2001 at 17:58:06:

In Reply to: regarding cellulase and bromelain posted by helping you on June 19, 2001 at 13:28:21:

Wow. O.k. Good thing there's a sale at Vitamin World today! I was going to run there and get some stevia to try so will get more enzymes. I'd bought two bottles of caprylic acid but only on bottle of enzymes.
Thanks so much! I appreciate your help and I love the idea of this stuff eating away the walls of the yeast. Just picturing it brings a smile to my face!!! Thanks again!

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Re: That's milligrams, right?

Posted by Kornbelt on June 19, 2001 at 18:29:58:

In Reply to: That's milligrams, right? posted by trish on June 19, 2001 at 10:29:47:

No, not milligrams. 1.5 to 2 grams. That would be 1500 to 2000 milligrams.

KB

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Re: Regarding Cellulase enzymes

Posted by
Sheren on July 21, 2001 at 18:59:12:

In Reply to: Regarding Cellulase enzymes posted by Helping you on June 17, 2001 at 15:14:19:

I am new at all of this, but my yeast isn't. Please give me the info on cellulase enzymes and how they kill yeast (candida). SC

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