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Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding?

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Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding?

Posted by Terry A on July 10, 2001 at 15:52:20:

Not sure if this has been covered before on this BB (so much info it is easy to miss some). I have read that colonics and enemas should not be performed if there is rectal bleeding. Is this truly risky? What about a person that has mildly active inflamatory bowel disease? Should they not try these treatments? In particular, I'm interested in trying S.H.A.P.E.s recommendation on colonics and coffee enemas for detox.

In the mean time, I seem to be having success with adding L-glutamine to my regimine.

Thanks to all for the great information on this BB.



Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding?

Posted by Helping you on July 10, 2001 at 23:21:31:

In Reply to: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? posted by Terry A on July 10, 2001 at 15:52:20:

This is due to fear of contaminiation. If there if bleeding, it the contamintation would get into your bloodstream. There are other ways to heal if you have Inflammatory bowel disease.

1) Permavite powder is a must
2) Soft fiber formula that includes guar gum, apple pectin, pyllium
3) No enzymes that contain protease
4) Take SeaCure
5) Take Saccarohmyces Boulardi from Allergy Research Group. It helps reduce inflammation
6) Aloe vera juice (1/4-1/2 cup before meals) is a must
7) Identify food sensitivity and remove
8) Get Heidelburg gastric analysis and make sure you have adequate HCL levels
9) DGL heals ulcers and can help with IBS
10) Food combining reduces stress on GI tract.

sugars of all kinds need to be eliminated including lactose (which feed flora). These sugars continue to upset the GI lining.

By the way, you should be taking up to 15g of L-glutamine a day. If you take permavite, you still need extra L-glutamine.

I hope these suggestions help. If you have any questions, just ask

Don't do colonics!!


Follow Ups:


Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 11, 2001 at 08:12:43:

In Reply to: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? posted by Terry A on July 10, 2001 at 15:52:20:

Hi, Terry.

Listen to helping (Thanks, Helping!)

Of course, it depends on where the bleeding is coming from.

Actually last year, a large study was published showing that the most effective treatment for Ulcerative Colitis (the most severe kind of inflammatory colitis) is an enema with the enema washings of other healthy people.

Hope this helps.

Walt



Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Terry A on July 11, 2001 at 08:54:34:

In Reply to: Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Walt Stoll on July 11, 2001 at 08:12:43:

Thanks Helping and Dr. Stoll. A while ago Dr. Stoll did give a reference to an article describing an enama washing using fecal matter from a healthy subject. The subject in the article suffered severe UC and responsed very positively to the treatment. However, the article did not really describe how the procedure was done or any risks involved. Can someone provide any follow-up info on the procedure. I know in my case a stool test from GSDL showed I have no E-coli. A procedure such as this is the only way that I know of to repopulate E-coli.



To Terry and Doc Stoll..............

Posted by Helping you on July 11, 2001 at 15:37:48:

In Reply to: Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Walt Stoll on July 11, 2001 at 08:12:43:

Butyrate enemas have at times put ulcerative colitis into remission. It must be prescribed but it works well. butyrate can also be taken orally but enema is best. You take 1 a day for 10 days.




Re: To Terry and Doc Stoll..............

Posted by Terry A on July 11, 2001 at 17:16:53:

In Reply to: To Terry and Doc Stoll.............. posted by Helping you on July 11, 2001 at 15:37:48:

If I asked a doc for butyrate would I be bucking the monopoly or is this something more acceptable to allopathic medicine?

Thanks again for all of your advice. I am so amazed at the amount of info available here and how helpful people are. I hope and pray that I too will one day be in a position to confidently help others.



Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 12, 2001 at 10:59:37:

In Reply to: Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Terry A on July 11, 2001 at 08:54:34:

Hi, Terry.

Contact Trent Nichols, MD, at (717) 632-0300. He was not the one who did the research but would know about it.

I went back through the past 2 years of research and did not find the study I reported.

Walt



Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Terry A on July 12, 2001 at 18:51:26:

In Reply to: Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Walt Stoll on July 12, 2001 at 10:59:37:

Thanks so much for the contact and the time you must have spent researching this. Once I contact Dr. Nichols, I'll write in with whatever info I can get.


Follow Ups:


Re: To Terry and Doc Stoll..............

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 13, 2001 at 08:23:47:

In Reply to: Re: To Terry and Doc Stoll.............. posted by Terry A on July 11, 2001 at 17:16:53:

Hi, Terry.

Butyrate has to be attached to another molecule and is available without a prescription.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Spoke with Dr. Nichols

Posted by Terry A on July 13, 2001 at 13:00:24:

In Reply to: Re: Should colonics or enemas be perperformed if bleeding? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Walt Stoll on July 12, 2001 at 10:59:37:

I just spoke with Dr. Nichols. He did not give me a reference to the enema literature...stated the fact that you could never get the procedure done in the U.S. He mentioned some procedures being done in England using ultra-purification and in Germany with non-pathogenic E-coli. Also, some work was/is done in Italy using yet another method.

He did mention the butyrate 5 ASA enema. Not available commercially, so you need to go to a compounding pharamacy to have a preparation made (to bind to another molecule as stated in Dr. Stoll's last message?).



where to get butyrate enemas.................

Posted by Helping you on July 13, 2001 at 13:11:46:

In Reply to: Spoke with Dr. Nichols posted by Terry A on July 13, 2001 at 13:00:24:

Hopewell Pharmacy
1 W Broad Street
Hopewell, NJ 08525
(609)466-1960

This is the only pharmacy I know of that has them. I did a series of 10 butyrate enemas about a year ago. They made a huge difference. Once your Bifidus is well-established and you have done a series of butyrate enemas, you can maintain your implant by eating a high-fiber diet that includes cultured dairy foods. If you don't like them, consider using a few tablespoons of Sweet dairy whey per day. It is high in lactose but conains NO casein, the most allergic component of cow's milk. The lactose will feed the bifidus.

I think the best protocol would be to go for a series of 2 colonics. On the second colonic, add sweet dairy whey and 100 Billion Bifidus to the water and retain for 15 minutes at the end of the session. That night, take 1 butyrate enema and one every day thereafter for 10 days. From this point on, the suggestions above should maintain your flora. Lactose is the most important carbohyrate for colon flora. High fiber is essential. Don't be afraid to include high-quality proteins such as fish and organic meats. Include EFA's from fish, flax, olive oil. This completely put my bowel problems into remission and it has been more than 1 year with no reccurances.

Hope this helps



Re: where to get butyrate enemas.................

Posted by Terry A on July 14, 2001 at 13:27:20:

In Reply to: where to get butyrate enemas................. posted by Helping you on July 13, 2001 at 13:11:46:

Helping,

Thanks for all the info. A few follow-up questions:

In your first response you recommended NO colonics. I'm very
unfamiliar with colonics. Are you suggesting going to a person who performs colonics (not even sure what you call them) or is there a home procedure? If you are suggesting see a colonics technician, I'm assuming they would be familiar with the sweet dairy whey and bifidus protocol?

Can you make a recommendation on the Bifidus?

Is the butyrate enema used the same as a cortisone or Rowasa enema, take at bedtime and retain all night?

Thanks again for your help and congrats on putting yours in remission.



Re: where to get butyrate enemas.................

Posted by Helping you on July 14, 2001 at 17:17:25:

In Reply to: Re: where to get butyrate enemas................. posted by Terry A on July 14, 2001 at 13:27:20:

I am suggesting that you use an enema bag. Not the little enema bottles like you see in the pharmacy but an enema bag. A colon therapist would surely have an enema kit for you to purchase. They are cheap.

You do one plain water enema, and then follow up with bifidus/sweetdairy whey (1 tbsp. to start out) (a good product for implantation is Lactopriv/B. The count is lower but implants better and produces less gas/bloating as a result of the growing bacteria).

Butyrate can be done with the bifidus/sweet dairy whey but I would do it separate. Maybe the next day. Once your implant is in, you usually do not have to do another implant for a while. Use caution when doing this implant. You are most surely going to experience gas/bloating as a result of the implant. when the bifidus hits the whey in your colon, it's like an explosion. Bifidus multiplies very rapidly. The protocol calls for 5 tbsp. sweet dairy whey and 100 billion Bifidus bacteria. If you have never done this before, this much product will likely make you bloated and gassy ALL DAY and perhaps into the next. So, instead, use Lactopriv/B and 1-2 Tbps. Sweet dairy whey. Use the butyrate separately.

The only problem I have with actually recomending the protocol is that I don't know if you have some kind of bacterial overgrowth going on (in which the sweet dairy whey may feed). If not, it poses no problems. Also, your butyrate levels may be just fine. However, in Ulcerative Colitis, butyrate levels are OFTEN depressed but a CDSA will show it for sure.

I would suggest doing the bifidus/sweet dairy whey retention for no longer than 15 minutes. You may even want to hold it less for your first time. Then, if you need, repeat in a few weeks with a little more time/product. So, the morning or the middle of the afternoon may work better. The butyrate can be done last thing before bed and held all night. This needs to be retained as long as possible and shouldn't have the same possible side-effects (gas/bloating) as the bifidus.

I hope this helps you. If you need anything else just ask

Follow Ups:


Re: Spoke with Dr. Nichols (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 15, 2001 at 09:43:40:

In Reply to: Spoke with Dr. Nichols posted by Terry A on July 13, 2001 at 13:00:24:

Hi, Terry.

I agree that the study with the enemas was experimental and is not yet available in this country. Just think of the natural thinking resistance among professionals. The study WAS done in this country. The only reason I mentioned it is to show how safe even the most extreme enema program can be in a sick colon.

I am disappointed in Trent. Even though he is contributing his own progressive thinking in this area, I thought he should be at least cognizant of others work in the area.

The resistence to this new discovery is mainly to protect the doctor and not because it is not safe or effective for the patient--for whom little else is working.

Walt



Is the reference somewhere in here?

Posted by Terry A on July 18, 2001 at 08:32:49:

In Reply to: Re: Spoke with Dr. Nichols (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Walt Stoll on July 15, 2001 at 09:43:40:

Dr. Stoll,

Is the fecal matter study reference you were looking for somewhere in this article? This is a list of references contained here.

http://www-east.elsevier.com/ajg/issues/9511/ajg3277edi.htm

Thanks



Re: Is the reference somewhere in here? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 20, 2001 at 08:00:53:

In Reply to: Is the reference somewhere in here? posted by Terry A on July 18, 2001 at 08:32:49:

Thanks, Terry A.

How did you find this?

I am not sure that the article I was referring to is included in this list of references but these obviously are addressing the same basic procedure and proving the same basic point.

Notice that these articles include MUCH more than just the one organism.

This is an example of how all of us, working as a team, are MUCH more effective than any one person trying to do it by himself.

Namaste`

Walt



Re: Is the reference somewhere in here? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Terry A on July 20, 2001 at 10:04:59:

In Reply to: Re: Is the reference somewhere in here? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Walt Stoll on July 20, 2001 at 08:00:53:

I just did a search for "fecal matter transplant" on google.



Re: Is the reference somewhere in here? (Archive in colon problems.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 22, 2001 at 08:48:11:

In Reply to: Re: Is the reference somewhere in here? (Archive in colon problems.) posted by Terry A on July 20, 2001 at 10:04:59:

Thanks, Terry.

I guess I will just have to use more imagination with the internet. If I just had the time.

Namaste`

Walt

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