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For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

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For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 15:30:42:

First of all, I want to thank you for your tireless assitance to all of us. It has been beneficial for so many of us.

I started Primal Defense, and I just wanted to know if my reaction to it is normal. I have had a great deal of activity, bubbling and gurgling in my intestines. And I've had gas-like pain, but no gas. Is this typical, or normal because the HSO's are raging a war against the evil stuff in my intestines?

this is actually the second time I've started with Primal Defense. The first time I had financial problems in keeping up with it. It did the same thing to me last time, but subsided. I just wondered if this is a sign of good things and should I up my dosage more slowly because of these symptoms?

Thanks again.



Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by
Doug on September 16, 2001 at 15:44:22:

In Reply to: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 15:30:42:

Hi Beth,

For what it's worth, I had the same reaction. In addition, I had flu like symptoms, fatigue, and severe fogginess.

Doug



Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by Helping you on September 16, 2001 at 16:33:31:

In Reply to: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 15:30:42:

These symptoms are VERY normal. Proceed with caution in regards to raising the dosage. What is your diet like?



Similar problems here, too...

Posted by Nutmeg on September 16, 2001 at 16:50:53:

In Reply to: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 15:30:42:

I had started with one caplet a day, then added one every other day until I was taking two caplets 4-5 times a day (total of 8-10 per day). The side-effects were unnecessarily unpleasant, so I cut the dose in half, taking only one at a time for about a week, then ramped back up at the same schedule. Now if I have a little discomfort, I just back off to 1 caplet at the next dose. So far so good.

Nutmeg

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Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 20:57:27:

In Reply to: Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by Helping you on September 16, 2001 at 16:33:31:

Diet's pretty good, no refined carbs, mostly whole foods. I had some blueberries yesterday, and though that's not usually a problem, I think it may have had something to do with it. I cut back to two caplets three times a day (down from 3 caps, 3x) and I'm feeling much better today. Probably just some ugly die off. Thanks for your help.



Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 20:59:48:

In Reply to: Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by Doug on September 16, 2001 at 15:44:22:

I expect the flu-like die off symptoms. Any time I take an anti-fungal, that hits me pretty hard. Good to hear someone else had these intestinal symptoms too. Thanks.

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Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by Vince F on September 16, 2001 at 22:32:47:

In Reply to: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 15:30:42:

I look at any pains, disturbances, or problems with
something I try as a bad sign and usually stop taking them
unless I can blame the problem on something else. Gas to me
is a negative reaction though I have a friend who thinks it
is normal and healthy. Maybe I just don't like discomforts
and feel helpful things should make me feel better, not
worse but everyone has to decide for themselves. I have
many brands of MSM and a few have worked wonders but I
refuse to take and returned the ones that gave me headaches
even though sellers claim that is the body detoxing. I'll
stay with the ones that solve a problem and don't cause discomfort.

VF



Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI

Posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 11:33:59:

In Reply to: Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by beth on September 16, 2001 at 20:57:27:

nmi



Re: Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI

Posted by Trish on September 17, 2001 at 15:05:35:

In Reply to: Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 11:33:59:

Dear Helping,
Are her gurgling, etc, symptoms of die-off?

Just wondering, as I have upped my antifungals and am experiencing a lot of this myself. I hope it IS die-off! That means progress, right?
Thank you,
Trish



Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by beth on September 17, 2001 at 18:37:00:

In Reply to: Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by Vince F on September 16, 2001 at 22:32:47:

Vince -

Then you're missing out on the Herxheimer response. That's when your body cycles through a bad symptom while it's getting rid of the problem. Very typical. And it's especially a well known response to killing off yeast. So, feeling bad when starting a therapy is not always a bad thing.



Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question...

Posted by Vince F on September 17, 2001 at 20:23:36:

In Reply to: Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by beth on September 17, 2001 at 18:37:00:


beth, I don't like feel Bad even if it is Good. I look for
ways to feel good no matter what. I don't think I have had
to deal with yeast but if I did I would be looking for a way
around feeling bad if that did happen. Like with geting rid
of H pylorid they say the cure is worse than the condition.
I think that cayenne would cure it but then cayenne is HOT
but only for 30 sec and not weeks like the treatment. I'd
take the 30 sec anytime.

VF



Re: Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI

Posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 23:44:17:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI posted by Trish on September 17, 2001 at 15:05:35:

Yes. If you are getting discomfort like that, it may be necessary to reduce the dose until you are a little better. Antifunals do disrupt the normal flora and some of these symptoms can be due to that. Do you get the gurgling upon taking the antifungals or does this happen when you eat?



Wish I knew

Posted by Vince F on September 18, 2001 at 01:08:28:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 23:44:17:

exactly what was in my hound that had his digestive system
sensitive for so many years that is all gone now after one
cayenne capsule. My belief is that the cayenne killed off
bad bacteria or yeast or healed his intestines. I don't
think of LGS in his case because he had lots of energy But
he was sensitive to every sight and sound when out. Talking
to a friend he doesn't buy that something that would kill
off bad bacteria wouldn't kill the good. Since it is a Food
item I can imagine that it could. If not then he had yeast
or irritation but what caused it since nothing has changed
except Him. Anyway I am happy and so is he since I don't
have to worry about what I give him and can give him
anything I am eating that he always wants at least a taste
of and walks are SO much more enjoyable and easier not
having him ducking or trying to get away from Anything
obvious or different like flags, tele wires, or white vans
and geting under foot trying to get away from them. No more
duscking or tail between his legs. I think he was always on
edge because of a discomfort or unbalance of chems in his
system that made him react to things. I told people I got a
new old hound. He did slow down for a few weeks that did
concern me since he acted Old but bounced back and has his
old agility.

VF

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Re: Gurgling sounds

Posted by Trish on September 18, 2001 at 12:12:53:

In Reply to: Re: Thanks exactly it! and , you did the right thing. NMI posted by Helping you on September 17, 2001 at 23:44:17:

I get these rumbling sounds for the first hour or two after taking my antifungals. The thing is, I don't feel like I'm getting die-off symptoms unless I raise the dosage to this level, which is why I was thinking this might be die-off (?). I'm taking 800 mg per dose 4x a day of each antifungal. Prior to raising to this amount I didn't have the die-off symptoms others mention here...and I'm on my fourth rotation. I am being patient but am worried about how many rotations I can do and still kill these bugs. I don't mind doing another rotation. I just bought and ordered enough antifungals for another rotation.

Along with this gurgling I still sneeze and have a runny nose/post nasal drip. I have no pain with the gurgling/gas. The headaches come and go.

It's been really hard to relax this past week. I'll just have to try harder. I've decided I'm not letting the terrorists affect my healing.

Thank you so very much for all your help! You are a beacon of light!
Trish



Re: Gurgling sounds

Posted by Helping you on September 18, 2001 at 13:03:25:

In Reply to: Re: Gurgling sounds posted by Trish on September 18, 2001 at 12:12:53:

Try taking the antifungals with a plant enzyme formula. Some of these antifungals can be a little tough on the digestive system. Certainly not to the degree of traditional antifunals, but they don't agree with everyone. Ginger, fennel and peppermint tea can be a big help. You can drink a cup within 30 minutes of taking the antifungals. Don't take them with the tea, the heat may deactiviate some of the benefical compounds



oops.

Posted by Trish on September 18, 2001 at 14:58:34:

In Reply to: Re: Gurgling sounds posted by Helping you on September 18, 2001 at 13:03:25:

That oil of oregano really gets my stomach going. I will try the peppermint tea (but not with antifungals). Thanks, again. I will swallow some plant enzyme tablets with my antifungals. Well, time to take my noon dosage!
Thank you!
Trish



Re: oops.

Posted by Helping you on September 18, 2001 at 17:32:25:

In Reply to: oops. posted by Trish on September 18, 2001 at 14:58:34:

What is the dosage of oil-of-oregano at this point? I mean, total for the day! And, What is the recommended dosage on the product?



FYI for Trish and Helping...

Posted by beth on September 19, 2001 at 02:00:00:

In Reply to: Re: oops. posted by Helping you on September 18, 2001 at 17:32:25:

I figured out that I get the gurgling, gas pains and some gas when I take three PD at one time. If I take two, it doesn't happen. Guess I've just got some ugly critters in my gut that need to be eased out slowly.

When should we stop upping our dosage? When we get to 20 a day and we don't have any reaction? And then cut back, or what's the schedule?

Thanks again for all your help!



Re: FYI for Trish and Helping...

Posted by Helping you on September 19, 2001 at 13:50:19:

In Reply to: FYI for Trish and Helping... posted by beth on September 19, 2001 at 02:00:00:

If you are taking it in capsule form, work up to about 20 per day and stay there for at least 3 months. After 3 months you can slowly taper off. maintainence is usually 3-5 caps per day. If you are taking the UltraZorb caplets, work up to about 12-15 per day. Maintainence is 3 per day.

If you are reacting, you need to proceed very slowly, even if you are increasing by only 1 cap/tablet every week or two. It can be expensive this way but it works! I encourage you to look up the name Jordan Rubin on the net and see what articles you can find. Primal Defense also links to some articles regarding Jordan. I know that www.crohns.net has an article on Jordan. He was the worst case of crohns disease every diagnosed and he healed himself with diet (organic meat, fish, beef, butter, raw goat's milk kefir, fermented fruits and vegetables and real sourdough bread), daily relaxation, being in bed by 9pm and MOST OF ALL, Soil organisms. He says that although the above things improved his condition, he says that the SBO's put him into perminent remission. I also know he was taking insanely high doses of SBO's. maybe the equivalent of one bottle of Ultrazorb caps per day. He did this because he was dying and was willing to try anything. After 30 days on this regimen, he passed a huge tar-like mass and immediatly had more energy. He then put on 40 pounds and is now happy and healthy. He is a certified nutritionist and he has publications all over the world. He is currently writing a book that is now titled as "Guts and Glory". The title may change by the time the book is done but it will have case histories involving all sorts of digestive problems and the improvements or remissions gained by following his protocols. This is one guy I would listen to. He has been to a place that most of us will only see for a brief time, at our final moments on Earth. He, however, came back from the dead! Look for it within the next year or so. I will update you as I learn more.



Re: what I have learned

Posted by Marie on September 20, 2001 at 09:44:40:

In Reply to: Re: For Helping You, Primal Defense question... posted by Vince F on September 17, 2001 at 20:23:36:

I'd really like to throw in my 2 cents; I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I want to share what I've learned. Some of us have treated our bodies poorly over the years, resulting in LGS and all kinds of illnesses. And I think that sometimes it takes real sacrifice to get better, which inevitably involves discomfort. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much sacrifice. Die-off is evidence of healing. I know that die-off, to some degree, can be controlled, and there's no reason to make ourselves horribly ill when we have the choice. But I think that we ought to tolerate as much as we reasonably can so we can kill off the bugs and get back to a more "normal" state. Discomfort is just part of the price that we pay to regain our health, not a curse to rebel from. And from what I hear, it's well worth it. And regarding the h-pylori, what I have learned is that a person can be infected with little to no symptoms, while others are in extreme pain. There is a wide variety of symptoms; so, sometimes, the cure is sometimes worse than the disease, but for other times, the temporary hardship of the meds makes a person feel awful beyond explanation, but it's the only way out. That was true for me and for others I know. Sometimes we must walk through the fire to earn our freedom.

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Re: Oil of Oregano

Posted by Trish on September 20, 2001 at 13:14:59:

In Reply to: Re: oops. posted by Helping you on September 18, 2001 at 17:32:25:

Im using a pure herbal extract with a dropper. Two drops= 45 mg. The bottle suggests using two drops to 8 oz of water, and says if you feel a heated sensation afterwards this is a normal reaction. The dropper is measured from .25 ml to 1.0 ml. About 12 drops = 1 ml
I've been putting about 10 drops in a gel cap, and taking about three gel caps per dose. I take full responsibility for taking this high a dosage of this and each antifungal. I really want to lick this and get better.

I gave in to my craving for comfort food this week and ate some chocolate (took some enzymes afterwards). The good thing is, I am amazed that I did not have a 'hangover' afterwards. This is amazing! I must be making progress?? I'm still sneezing each time I wake up, so I'm getting rid of the carpet in my room this weekend. I'm hoping it will give my immune system a break..my room gets very very dusty very quickly. Also, my carpet is very old

I have found, also, that if I do NOT drink as much water as I should, I get a large pimple or two, at varying places, on my body. I figure this in on account of toxins (?) but am not worried about it. I'm drinking more water now that I'm getting over the shock of the WTC. I'm finding my feet again, thought I still feel the stress (working on it!) I have found some sulfur soap that I use and try to imagine it drawing out all the toxins (ha ha). I"m also trying to remember to eat a few sprigs of cilantro each day to detox. I'm 'sweating bullets' waiting for my order of SF722. I know the mail is very slow now, so I'm pretty much at the mercy of what I can get at my local health food store re antifungals.

Thanks for your concern and help. I always value your advice!
Trish



Re: Would love to read Jordan's book

Posted by Trish on September 20, 2001 at 13:28:37:

In Reply to: Re: FYI for Trish and Helping... posted by Helping you on September 19, 2001 at 13:50:19:

Please do keep us posted on when it comes out.
I have to ask: what do you think that black tar-like mass was? This is fascinating...also the fact that he immediately had more energy. More energy! How wonderful! Perhaps perhaps that mass was toxins? His body was so glad to pass that 'black stuff', probably!

I have been to that website to get info for someone my husband works with who has crohns but haven't read that article. I have questions about how the fermented fruits and real sourdough bread (?) helped him.I'll have to visit that site again.

I guess I should be in bed by nine also. I wake up in the middle of the night, but I know it's because of the WTC. Will try harder!
Anyway, Ultrazorb is a new word in my vocab, but will do a net search to find them.

I WISH I was at this point in my treatment (SBOs), but have not been without symptoms for two weeks, let alone two days, yet. :-)
Thanks!
Trish

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Re: Oil of Oregano

Posted by Susie on September 25, 2001 at 14:43:11:

In Reply to: Re: Oil of Oregano posted by Trish on September 20, 2001 at 13:14:59:

I found oil of oregano too hot and gave me heart burn. I suffered with constant yeast infections for 6 years. No over the counter or prescription med made a dent in it.
I took Diflucan and other orals everyday for months. They did nothing. SS722 wiped it out. It is undecenoic acid and derived from the castor bean. Another brand name is Caren by Advanced Nutraceuticals. My chiropractor said take 100mg three times a day. It truly works. Most books and natural practitioners say to expect discomfort and an increase in symptoms while going through die off. If it is too intense cut back a little for a few days.The discomfort is worth it.
As a Lyme Disease patient I had no choice to cut back on antibiotics. The die off from that was pure torture for 3 months. It made me an invalid. Don't go to that extreme for more than a couple days.Eleven months later I still have die off that drives me into bed occasionally. As long as you are having die off you still have the bad bugs in you.
Undecenoic Acid works through your whole body. Use it until your yeast symptoms are gone. But make sure yeast is what is causing the problem or you waste your money and not get better.Good Luck



Where to purchase Caren?

Posted by JoanNAz on September 25, 2001 at 22:23:07:

In Reply to: Re: Oil of Oregano posted by Susie on September 25, 2001 at 14:43:11:

Hi, Susie.

Thanks so much for posting the great info. Because I'm allergic to olives I can't take SF722 (contains olive oil).
I searched for Caren (nothing) and Advanced Nutraceuticals but was unable to link to their homepage.

Where does one buy Caren?

Thanks, JoanNAz

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Re: Oil of Oregano (SS22 or Caren alternative for candida?) Archive in candida.

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 27, 2001 at 09:17:49:

In Reply to: Re: Oil of Oregano posted by Susie on September 25, 2001 at 14:43:11:

Thanks, Susie.

I would be interested in anyone else's experience with this product.

Walt

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