Leaky Gut Syndrome archives

CR-S, Nystatin and subs...for Bob and Walt

Posted by Louise Anderson on March 04, 1999 at 12:28:26:

Bob and/or Walt,

I was reading down the line there where you, Bob, were saying that you have used caprylic acid and grapefruit seed extract instead of Nystatin for CR-S.

What would theraputic doses be?

We established a while back that I most likely have candida overgrowth. You suggested I get tested. I have not yet done it. Was it AAL (Antibody Assays Lab) you recommend or Great Smokies? What it the actual name of the test?

Is it absolutely necessary? Can a chiropracter prescribe Nystatin, or does it have to be an M.D.?

I really shun allopathic doctors, and don't know any M.D. that I trust or who I can convince to prescribe Nystsatin. I have no insurance, so I hate to spend the money on the test and pay doctorss' fee, when I am not sure the doctor will even co-operate with me.

Would the Caprylic Acid or Grapefruit seed extract do the job? I eat a (very)low carb whole food HG /O diet, and try to do SR faithfully, but you said that might not be enough. I still drag around with fatigue and have alot of body aches. My chronic back pain is still there as well. It helps to exercise, but only to a point. If I do too much, it get worse.

When I did the E-diet you said I probablly didn't clear completely because of CR-S. (I am a flaming HG, if you remember) Should I do the Pepto test now?

Money is a big factor for me right now- I am replacing my amalgams because my crowns and fillings are all "deteriorating" and my D.C. says I am mercury toxic. (Applied kinesiology)I am borrowing $ from my mom to do it, and really can't stretch the budget much further.

Any suggestions??

Thanks, Bob and Walt. You guys are my heroes.

Louise


Follow Ups:


addendum

Posted by Louise on March 04, 1999 at 14:45:15:

In Reply to: CR-S, Nystatin and subs...for Bob and Walt posted by Louise Anderson on March 04, 1999 at 12:28:26:

Bob/Walt,

I just spoke to my D.C. and she said she does not recommend Nystatin because it can push candida into your system via LGS and it will become systemic. Then Nystatin will not work on systemic CR-S. Does this sound right?

She says to use "Inflamax" take Glutaamine and NAG (n acetyl glucosamine) keep up the diet, replace the amalgams, come in for regular visits, and just be patient.

Patieince is not my best virtue.

Any advice?

Many thanks,
Louise


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Re: CR-S, Nystatin and subs...for Bob and Walt

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 04, 1999 at 14:47:36:

In Reply to: CR-S, Nystatin and subs...for Bob and Walt posted by Louise Anderson on March 04, 1999 at 12:28:26:

Louise,

You can run the pepto-test but if positive I would shy away from having you run the pepto-protocol since the antibiotic properties of the pepto might kill enough good bacteria that it causes your candidiasis to flare.

The test that I recommend is the Candida Immune Complexes from Antibody Assays. I think it's worth the money.

My point of view about antifungals is that you can't beat nystatin for it's safety/efficacy profile. I also think that Lamisil, while a little more risky, is MUCH more effective in some cases where nystatin isn't well tolerated or simply doesn't seem to get a theraputic benefit. Both of these are prescription meds that require a M.D. or D.O.

Chiropractors and Naturopaths cannot prescribe these meds so they usually go with things like caprylic acid, oleic acid (found in olive oil), garlic, biotin and most recently grapefruit seed extract (GSE). I have no experience using GSE to successfully treat candidiasis, yet I don't doubt that it has some anti-fungal properties. Some folks swear by it but some folks also swear by off the shelf homeopathic remedies, as well as teas and various oils -- which in my experience have been safe but rather ineffective in treating a serious candidiasis problem.

Bob


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Re: addendum

Posted by Robert McFerran on March 04, 1999 at 15:00:29:

In Reply to: addendum posted by Louise on March 04, 1999 at 14:45:15:

Louise,

This is a bogus explaination driven by your D.C.'s desire to retain you as a patient. I'm sure that she didn't mention that she COULDN'T presribe the nystain for you. I've seen this type of thing amoung a lot of alternative medicine professionals (primarily Naturopaths and D.C.'s) and they do their profession a disservice.

If all you took was the NAG, glutamine and Inflamax you would NEVER resolve a significant candida problem -- and she would continue to have you as a paying patient with problems for a very long time............

Bob


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Systemic Candida

Posted by trish on March 04, 1999 at 15:28:02:

In Reply to: addendum posted by Louise on March 04, 1999 at 14:45:15:

I guess I assumed that candida WAS systemic by nature. If you have to have LGS in order to have candida, and if the yeasty critters are infiltrating your intestinal tissues, then it stands to (my) reason that some of the candida would be leaking into your system along with all the other peptides and large molecules of stuff...Once you eradicate the candida, and heal the gut, then no more leaking...am I wrong?

Thanks for bringing this up, Louise!
trish


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Re: CR-S, Nystatin and subs...for Bob and Walt

Posted by john on March 04, 1999 at 17:25:43:

In Reply to: Re: CR-S, Nystatin and subs...for Bob and Walt posted by Robert McFerran on March 04, 1999 at 14:47:36:

Do not get nystatin, go wity Diflucan more effective!



Re: addendum

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 05, 1999 at 11:00:02:

In Reply to: addendum posted by Louise on March 04, 1999 at 14:45:15:

Dear Louise,

I would lkike to see ANY research that supports that kind of thinking.

When I first learned about C-RS, I thought it was a systemic candida/organismal condition as well.

It IS but not as I thought. IT IS THE BODYMIND'S RESPONSE TO THE MYCELIA OF THE FUNGAL FORM OF THE CANDIDA GROWING THROUGH THE WALL OF THE LGS THAT CAUSES NEARLY ALL OF THE SYSTEMIC SYMPTOMS----NOT THE ESCAPE OF THE ORGANISM ITSELF.

Only when an individual has lost ALL of their immunity (terminal cancer, AIDS, dying from radiation poisoning, chemotherapy toxicity, etc.) that candida can actually invade the blood stream as the "cell wall deficient forms". This happens just before the death of that individual.

I would like to hear of any research since I still want to learn. However, from what I know now, this idea of "Nystatin pushing candida into the system via LGS" makes me suspicious that this came from the monopoly's preventing Chiropractors from prescribing Nystatin and not from fact.

Nystatin is perhaps the only thing listed in the PDR that has NO side effects. The ONLY reason it is not available WITHOUT prescription is that the AMA wants to preserve its monopoly in any way it can.

Walt


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Re: Systemic Candida

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 05, 1999 at 11:01:16:

In Reply to: Systemic Candida posted by trish on March 04, 1999 at 15:28:02:

Deare trish,

See my response to Louise.

Walt



Re: addendum

Posted by Llouise on March 05, 1999 at 16:34:14:

In Reply to: Re: addendum posted by Robert McFerran on March 04, 1999 at 15:00:29:

Robert,

I would not want to believe that she is being devious and manipulative. I think she may just be misinformed. Perhaps as Walt said, it is just the propoganda given to D.C.'s.

Thanks. I will continue to pursue this.

Louise



Re: addendum

Posted by LuAnn C. on March 07, 1999 at 15:42:42:

In Reply to: Re: addendum posted by Walt Stoll on March 05, 1999 at 11:00:02:

Louise, I can sympathisize with how you're feeling and cost of the exams. I have just been going through more tests. I listened to Dr. Stoll and found an "excellent" Dr. in my area, Dr. Wunderlich, and followed the steps he recommended, as Dr. Stoll had recommended also prior to me seeing him. I was put on the Nystatin, along with many supplements (that seemed to cost a fortune) but improved tremendously. Then I became very careless with my diet and after a couple years the symptoms returned and were much worse than the first time around. I am back to seeing the Dr., doing the E-diet, taking Diflucan (have been on and off for the last 4 months) but am seeing results I never saw with the Nystatin. He explained that the candiasis embeds itself into the cells and must be "pried" out through the use of proper diet, supplements, exercise and meds as needed and he's not one to give prescriptions frivolously. He also did a hair analysis that showed me to have heavy arsenic and aluminum poisoning. Now after going through the tests I have, I'm convinced I have a chance to live that my father didn't. My mom and I believe this is what my father may have died of because he didn't have a knowledgeable Dr. Please don't put a "price" on your health. Loans can be payed back, but you only have one life to live. Thanks Dr. Stoll for heading me down the right track years ago! I plan to stay there this time!


Follow Ups:


Re: addendum (Testimonial)

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 08, 1999 at 11:25:10:

In Reply to: Re: addendum posted by LuAnn C. on March 07, 1999 at 15:42:42:

Dear LuAnn,

Thanks for your testimonial. LOTS of people go through this kind of start & stop thing. We all tend to forget how bad we felt and many have to relapse to learn our lessons.

Your sharing wil help others to see that this is a "PROCESS" and that we are all human.

Namaste` Walt



Re: Systemic Candida

Posted by JN on March 15, 1999 at 01:34:21:

In Reply to: Systemic Candida posted by trish on March 04, 1999 at 15:28:02:

Yes, you are wrong.
LGS is a condition when intestinal permeability occures due to changes to the structure of the gut wall. Such may be caused by candida, but other inflamations cause also changed cellular structure allowing small molecules to leak through. one of such conditions is known as cell hyperplasia.
Than the "forein substances' as seen by our immune system are being vigorously fought.



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