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A few days ago I convinced my brother to try the liver/gallbladder flush with me that's been discussed on this board many times.
After managing to get the olive oil down we went to bed. I was pulled out of bed a couple of times by more runny bowel movements from the epsom salt. After finally getting to sleep I was awakened about 2:30 am by my brother moaning in the bathroom. After the second moan I heard him collapse and hit the floor. A very bad feeling came over me. All kinds of thoughts ran through my head - like what kind of unknown complication could have caused a serious problem...or worse.
This also awakened my mother, a nurse. We opened the door to the bathroom to find my brother laying on the floor against the toilet. I grabbed him in a near state of panic and called his name but he was totally unresponsive. I thought he was dead. The grief I felt at that moment was the greatest I'd ever experienced in my entire life. My mother, from experience I guess, was a bit more calm. She held his head and continued to call his name and after a minute or so he slowly came to.
We helped him up and tried to get some water in him thinking he was dehydrated. This seemed to help. The two of them slowly made their way into the den to sit down. I sat on the toilet for a few moments gathering myself and dealing with the guilt of having talked him into it.
There was more to come, however.
I got up to leave the bathroom. The next thing I know I am sitting on the floor just inside my room in a complete daze. I had blacked out too. I guess this is what it's like to have a stroke. I was cold and shaking sitting on the floor. My mother was over me talking to me but I could not respond, a totally horrifying feeling.
After several terrifying minutes in this state I finally got my bearings and was able to get up. Once we got some water and food in us we were ok, my brother was nauseated though and eventually threw up the olive oil. Both of us have bruises on our heads from falling.
So, what caused this? Dehydration, low blood sugar?
In the procedure it states: "DO NOT EAT OR DRINK ANYTHING AFTER 2:00". So we only sipped water for the remainder of the day. I spoke with an employee at the local health food store and she said she was dehydrated the first time she tried this. She thinks she was about to pass out sitting in bed but fortunately a friend was with her a got her a large bottle of water.
If this is the cause then the wording in the procedure needs to be changed because it is incredibly irresponsible to have it printed on a public board.
Matt
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
This is why I think this flushes are not smart. People say it's safe but I don't believe doing this to your body is safe. If I had to do a flush, I would do a much milder one.
I hope you guys come out of this ok. Good luck man.
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
In the 1980s and early 90s I had numerous gallbladder attacks and blocked bile duct and one that blocked the liver duct. I still have my gallbladder, having refused surgery..... I believe that using generous amounts of olive oil as a salad dressing and squeezing 1/4 to 1/2 a lemon into each glass of water I drink, has been tremendously beneficial to my gallbladder function.
Flushes of anykind make my "head spin" and leave me so weak as to not be able to care for myself... they are not for me.
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
My goodness! What an experience you had.
In all my years of teaching holistic health, I have been very skeptical of the "liver/gallbladder flush." It's too drastic, extreme on one hand (therefore causing unusual stress), and the result may not be what people are made to believe on the other. That is, what comes out as the so-called "stones" may be simply the result of a chemical reaction between the olive oil, E-salt, and bile. (We had a discussion about this not too long ago. I'll see if I can find that thread and make a link later.)
For healing, as well as for health, only balanced measures can help us achieve a balanced bodymind.
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by holist [5329.1399] on March 21, 2007 at 21:38:49:
Here is the link
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by holist [5329.1399] on March 21, 2007 at 21:42:37:
hope this one works
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
Hi Matt, that was really a traumatic experience for you and your brother. I've read MANY posts here on the board about people doing the gallbladder flush and NEVER have I seen anything like your experience. I've done 2 flushes personally and only experienced nausea after drinking the oil. I disagree with the "rule" of not eating. I think you should eat something like bread or crackers if your feeling light headed. You can also drink water. The flush still works.
I know people who have done 10 to 15 flushes and feel WONDERFUL because of them. I think it would also be permitable to drink a protein drink if you have low blood sugar just to keep your blood sugar up. YOU will not DIE if you eat, it could alter the flush a bit. As I said, I have eaten during the nite so I wouldn't throw up.
If you don't feel comfortable with doing another flush, but want to do something for your gallbladder you can take supplements to strengthen your liver, or go to a accupuncturist. I met a lady who did that instead. It worked for her.
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
It was pretty difficult making it through the flush day. I think I have a fast metabolism or lean toward a protein metabolic type. I burned right through the lunch meal of toast and steamed vegetables. My stomach was growling at 4:00. Needless to say I wasn't happy realizing I had six hours of no food in front of me and then those bad tasting drinks!
I made it through though and then all that happened.
Also, my brother had a lung removed a few years ago and I don't think he has the endurance I have.
Matt
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
One thing that is not usually mentioned with flushing is that problems may arise if the liver is badly congested. In that case, you need to do herbal liver cleansing before attempting a flush. Julia Chang's website www.sensiblehealth.com is excellent at explaining all of this - she is highly acclaimed on the curezone.com forum site. I personally have used her products and have noticed a huge difference in how I feel.
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
I am so sorry you went through this. I think the flush is a very extreme and difficult way to detox. Some people make it sound like it's not a big deal, but to some people it is a big deal. I did one flush and was so incredibly sick from it, for days. And, I did it exactly as the directions say. I just don't think it is a good thing. I hope you are feeling better.
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
Matt! I've only had one other personthrow-up the epsom salt out of hundreds of people. One of four things could have caused this reaction 1) the epsom salt drinks did not produce the 2 to 3 runny bowel movements that is "Required" before continuing on with the olive oil drink at 10:00 2) previous dehydration for approaching the flush 3) the person is allergic to the epsom salt or 4) the person has high blood pressure and should not be taking epsom salt. The best solutions for this problem are - they should have first been muscle tested to insure they are not allergic to the epsom salt - they should have performed a "Apple Juice" liver flush instead - they should have drank 8 to 10 glasses of water the day before and the day of the liver flush. Everyone has a different body chemistry - therefore each indiviual needs to find what works best for them and not assume that one size fits all. Thank you for this valuable info because I will use it to update my liver flush instructions. * S.H.A.P.E. *
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
Thanks, Matt.
I cannot imagine!
If only your brother had these symptoms, I would suggest he check with his doc for causes. Since you both had symptoms I would suggest something environmental (like escaping gas or something)--although "group hysteria" is also a possibility.
Let us know what is finally determined.
Walt
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
Here's some more details and comments about what happened.
First of all we are feeling perfectly fine, in fact the very next day we were able eat a normal breakfast.
We both drank a quart of apple juice for three days leading up to the flush, finishing the third quart before the 2:00 deadline. The juice had a half ounce of Ortho-Phos in it to help soften the stones.
My brother said even though he didn't like the epsom at all and he had decided he wasn't going to be able to drink it the next morning it was the smell of the olive oil that triggered the vomiting.
My mother thinks the epsom salt could cause a large blood pressure drop.
Walt suggested "group hysteria" may have been a factor. I am not sure it was exactly that but I do wonder if my case was a bit different. Before I was awakened I felt ok, no nausea the entire time. After finding him was it possible that I was in shock to some extent plus dehydration, low blood sugar,etc? My brother told me later that when I was sitting on the floor he was talking to me and my eyes were looking up wide open and never blinking. I don't remember any of it at all.
I don't question the benefits of this type of flush, in fact the owner of the local health food store told me she felt like she could fly after doing it. I just think maybe a few safety precautions could be put in like making sure you are not dehydrated by drinking as needed whether it's water, fruit or vegetable juice, etc unless we can figure out it's something else.
Matt
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 22, 2007 at 15:38:59:
Hi matt,
I think in your case, you certainly could have been frightened and shocked into your response.
I would also suspect both of you might have had electrolyte imbalance and dehydration to some degree.
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 22, 2007 at 15:38:59:
Matt, very sorry to hear about your and your brother's experience. One comment: Fresh olive oil should have no smell whatsoever. I think your olive oil was rancid.
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by MattW [8422.3299] on March 21, 2007 at 20:41:13:
Scarey!
I have low blood sugar too, and did do the flush a while ago but only had favourable effects from it.
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by AlexandriaDumas [4750.3361] on March 23, 2007 at 00:53:53:
Alexandria, it was the smell when he burped it later, not the smell of the drink. The bottle wasn't very old. I've never tried a brand that didn't have at least a subtle smell when you breathe out after eating it.
Matt
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by S.H.A.P.E. [138.2313] on March 22, 2007 at 09:04:22:
Apple juice liver flush...
S.H.A.P.E.,
Could you please repost the instructions for an apple juice flush? I've been through the archives and can't seem to find it. Thanks very much.
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by holist [5329.1399] on March 21, 2007 at 21:38:49:
Hi holist ~ You never did post the reference material stating that gallbladder/liver flush results are likely nothing more than congealed olive oil.
Your comments suggested that the flush is a hoax. For the interest of many, will you post supporting info?
thanks
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by ~CT [8170.3360] on March 27, 2007 at 13:45:56:
CT,
ALL I know for sure is that for the first 15 years of my medical practice I referred an average of 10-15 patients a year to the surgeon for a cholecystectomy. When I learned to recommend the gallbladder flush, as the first option, that incidence dropped to one patient referred to the surgeon in the next 15 years.
I think that the "stones" that are passed are congealed olive oil. Obviously SOMETHING beneficial is happening!
Walt
In Reply to: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE Personal experience. Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on March 28, 2007 at 08:38:16:
Hi Dr. Stoll:
You say that the "stones" that are passed are congealed olive oil. Does that mean that the stones in the gallbladder don't come out? I don't understand. How does a person get the gallstones to come out?
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE Personal experience. Archive. posted by PhillyLady [5444.2761] on March 28, 2007 at 09:09:32:
Perhaps they break down, get smaller, or dissolve or become less troublesome through some chemical process?
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE Personal experience. Archive. posted by PhillyLady [5444.2761] on March 28, 2007 at 09:09:32:
Hi, Philly.
I think that sometimes they do. However the point is to relieve the symptoms and, if the causes are dealt with, give the time for the body to gradually get rid of them.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Liver/Gallbladder Flush - TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE posted by ~CT [8170.3360] on March 27, 2007 at 13:45:56:
For the "congealed oil" part, see Walt's comments to your post.
And no, CT, I have never "suggested the flush is a hoax." Read what I have said about this topic in the 2 threads here (I made a link to the earlier discussion as well).Read it carefully this time.
What I have been saying is this: the flush is too extreme a measure and thus may be too risky and can cause unnecessary stress to the bodymind--who needs more stress? Read the first post of this thread, which is about 2 people's traumatic experiences of the flush!
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