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Okay, I've done the GB cleanse, and released a slew of greenish "stones", as predicted, but I really wonder about something, and just have to pose the question.
If you follow the directions for the procedure, you consume, into a rather empty stomach, a VERY large quantity of extra-virgin olive oil. This oil is just about the same color as the stones (OLIVE GREEN!), and it occurred to me that perhaps the stones are nothing more than the congealed olive oil mixed with the grapefruit juice, passing thru the digestive tract and hitting the cold toilet water thereby forming globules (as oil and water do).
Maybe all that stuff is not gallbladder "stones" that need to be flushed but nothing more than what we just put into the system? This is not to say the cleanse is harmful, in fact it may be a beneficial way to tone up the liver and GB, but it sure has me wondering. Any thoughts, fellow flushers?
In Reply to: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. posted by Jen B on November 15, 2000 at 08:33:51:
Well, if you REALLY, REALLY want to know you could do a "stone-opsy" - the true gallstones are supposed to have a hard core of cholesterol inside...
In Reply to: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. posted by Jen B on November 15, 2000 at 08:33:51:
1. The grapefruit juice actually liquifies the olive oil. And olive oil unlike butter doesn't harden when it hits something cold it just floats as a film on top of water.
2. I took extra olive oil the first time and light olive oil (pale yellow) the last time. I got hundreds of green stones, my husband got almost none with the same procedure.
3. I continued expelling stones even 2 days after the flush, when my digestion was almost back to normal.
4. I did save one stone and washed it It was quite firm and rubbery. Unfortuanately didn't think about cutting it in half :-(
Let's see if someone else can give more scientific arguments.....
Rosemarie
In Reply to: Re: For the Gallbladder Flushers posted by Rosemarie on November 15, 2000 at 15:14:59:
Your observations are helping reassure me that the cleanse is actually doing what is claimed for it. Guess I'm ready to give it another try, since I did flush a zillion of the stones the first time. Good health to you!
In Reply to: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. posted by Jen B on November 15, 2000 at 08:33:51:
Hi, Jen.
I think your suspicion is right on. However, I think (in many cases) you will find that many of the "stones" are congealed around real stones.
Either way, the system flush can only do good. At least, in my experience it avoided the need for surgery, in all cases who had had surgery recommended, for the 10 years I knew about this option. After all, one can ALWAYS go ahead with the surgery if their symptoms persist.
Walt
In Reply to: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. posted by Jen B on November 15, 2000 at 08:33:51:
Jen B,
I know I should probably read the archieves first but I just thought I'd ask you first :)
Why are you doing a gallbladder flush?
Reason I'm asking is that my family has a history of having gallbladder problems. My mom has 3 sisters and my mom and 2 of them all had thier gallbaldders removed. On occasion in hte past year I have seen a green stole. Ie ... maybe once ever month or so.
Sean
In Reply to: question on gallbladder cleanse posted by Sean on November 17, 2000 at 15:49:06:
...as a preventive measure. Since I'm in my middle years-- and haven't always taken the best care of myself--this seems like a simple way to do a little tune-up of some pretty important organs! I'm not dealing with any major health challenges, but I figure it won't hurt me and probably will be of some help.
In Reply to: Re: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. (Archive in liver.) posted by Walt Stoll on November 17, 2000 at 08:13:44:
I have been seeing a biochemist and have performed several gallbladder flushes at his recommendation. I had this exact question (about whether or not the little greenies were actually stones) and I have also wondered just how many gallstones a gallbladder could actually produce and retain. If placed in a measuring cup, the "stones" I expelled would probably equal 3/4 cup or more. Could a gall bladder *physically* hold such a volume of stones? I'm not doubting that the cleanse is valuable, just trying to understand what it really does. Is there any way to find out for sure?
In Reply to: Re: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. (Archive in liver.) posted by Erin on November 17, 2000 at 19:22:00:
Don't "gall stones" actually reside in the liver, and only when the liver is too congested do they move into the gallbladder?
In Reply to: Re: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. (Archive in liver.) posted by Erin on November 17, 2000 at 19:22:00:
After posting my question yesterday, I stumbled across this helpful page. Answered my questions and more! http://www.hollynearby.com/livercleanse.html
In Reply to: Re: For the Gallbladder Flushers...warning: somewhat graphic!. (Archive in liver.) posted by Erin on November 17, 2000 at 19:22:00:
You're absolutely right- at least according to Dr. Hulda Clark. On page 493 in her book "The Cure for All Cancers" she says:
" This procedure (the gallbladder flush) contradicts many modern medical viewpoints. Gallstones are thought to be formed in the galllbladder, not the liver. They are thought to be few, not thousands. They are not linked to pains other than gallbladder attacks. It is easy to understand why this is thought: by the time you have acute pain attacks, some stones ARE in the gallbladder, are big enough to see on X-ray, and have caused inflammation there...."
On page 488: "As the stones grow and become more numerous the back pressure on the liver causes it to make less bile. Imagine the situation if your garden hose had mrbles in it. Much less water would flow, which in turn would decrease the ability of the hose to squirt out the marbles. With gallstones, much less cholesterol leaves the body, and cholesterol levels may rise..."
On page 492: "You will need to total 2000 stones before the liver is clean enough to rid you of allergies or bursitis or other pains permanently (underlined). The first cleanse may rid you of them for a few days, but as the stones from the rear travel forward, they give you the same symptoms again. You may repeat cleanses at two week intervals. Never cleanse when you are ill...."
In Reply to: Re: The Gallbladder Flush - Erin and KMD posted by Rosemarie on November 18, 2000 at 14:24:46:
Thanks Rosemarie,
So then, could someone like Paulette, who has no gallbladder anymore, actually safely complete a "gallbladder flush"? Walt told her no recently... But that's when I got to thinking I had read that gallstones are actually formed in the liver. Can they safely and reliably exit the liver and enter the bowels when you do not have a gall bladder? Maybe in your book you can find something about this.
In Reply to: Re: The Gallbladder Flush - Erin and KMD (Walt? Paulette?) posted by kmd on November 18, 2000 at 14:52:42:
Hi, kmd
That's what I thought as well and for a number of months thought it would be beneficial to go ahead with the gallbladder flush. Recently learned that I had surgical clips after several x-rays revealed the clips. First I thought it was a mistake by the surgeon. However, my PCP and Walt advised it's common.
My PCP advised if they used sutures and those sutures were to somehow dissolve or break, then the bile would have no place to go except internally. That would require emergency surgery and create extreme health conditions. I can only imagine what kind of stress and pressure hundreds and/or thousands of gallstones would put onto those surgical clips. Can almost picture these stones loose within my body and shudder at the thought.
IMHO, that would create problems and/or complications. The castor-oil packs have caused me NO problems, and with the extensive tests and problems I've had this past year, would not attempt to create anymore needlessly. Might be a dare devil in some instances, but not with my health or life.
Perhaps, there is an alternate gallbladder flush for people without gallbladders. I've got enough arthritis and yesterday learned of bursitis in my shoulder, so this could possibly be of some benefit to me.
Let me know what you find out.
Thanks
Take Care Of Yourself
Paulette
In Reply to: Re: The Gallbladder Flush - kmd posted by Paulette on November 18, 2000 at 15:35:59:
Hi Paulette,
I don't know enough about the anatomy of the liver and gallbladder to be able to advise you. I'm with you, if I didn't have a gallbladder I would have to do enough thorough research to prove to myself it would be safe for me to attempt a flush (a liver flush!). I think I'd be scared to try it, but then again if I could study the anatomy and have it explained to me in a way that made sense, considering the surgical clips and all, perhaps I would do it if deemed safe. Curious to see what Walt might say, or if Rosemarie can find info in her book about people who don't have gallbladders.
Is your chest pain and back pain better? I wonder if you would benefit from doing a vegetable juice fast to detox the body...
In Reply to: Re: The Gallbladder Flush - kmd posted by kmd on November 18, 2000 at 19:32:39:
Hi, kmd
My chest pains have disappeared for the time being, however, tyring not to think of them returning as PCP and Pulmonary Specialist advise they will.:-( (there's extreme pain there!)
As far as my back pains,they're not as bad as last night. I am interested in the vegetable juice fast as Walt suggested this months ago, however, I haven't determined which vegetables are suitable which I like or which won't cause probelms with my reflux and Barrett's Esophagus. Got any ideas or suggestions?
Take Care Of Yourself
Paulette
In Reply to: Re: The Gallbladder Flush -Depends On What Types Of Vegetables Used posted by Paulette on November 18, 2000 at 19:50:12:
I can't find a specific recommendation or caution for doing the liverflush in cases where the gallbladder has been removed. However on page 493 Dr. Clark says:
"People who have had their gallbladder surgically removed still get plenty of green, bile-coated stones, and anyone who cares to dissect their stones can see that the concentric circles and crystals of cholesterol match textbook pictures of "gallstones" exactly."
From this quote one could assume that she has had people without gallbladders successfully do the cleanse. However, Paulette in your situation with those clamps, etc. I would take Dr. Stoll's advice and not do it. Just stick with the castor oil packs....you don't need more problems than you already have. Right? I'd play it safe.
all the best
Rosemarie
In Reply to: Re: Liverflush... without gallbladder posted by Rosemarie on November 18, 2000 at 22:04:37:
Hi, Rosemarie
Well, I guess you're right about playing it safe after all. I was tempted to go ahead with it anyway, however, with my luck better not tempt fate. This should be very educational for others not having gallbladders as well, so it was worth while after all.:-)
Thanks
Take Care Of Yourself
Paulette
In Reply to: Re: The Gallbladder Flush -Depends On What Types Of Vegetables Used posted by Paulette on November 18, 2000 at 19:50:12:
Hi Paulette,
The recipe suggested for me by Terri-Lynn for a vegetable juice fast is as follows: 3-4 carrots, 1 large cucumber, 1 bunch cilantro/parsley, dime-size slice of ginger root, 1 bunch spinach, 1/4 medium onion, fresh herbs (basil, mint, oregano, etc.) and 1 large zucchini. Have NO idea what this might taste like or feel like. Probably won't try it until after the new year as I don't yet have a juicer and won't be eating "perfectly" thru the holidays either.
Keep in mind, this recipe was specifically suggested for me according to Terri-Lynn's intuition. Whether or not it is suitable for you, I have no clue. I don't have reflux or Barrett's so do not know which foods you may want to avoid.
In Reply to: Re: Liverflush... without gallbladder-- posted by Paulette on November 18, 2000 at 23:48:06:
I thought you might find the following information helpful. It is written by Julia Chang; her website URL is http://www.sensiblehealth.com/. She is a highly experienced and knowledgeable practitioner, and her site is well worth the time to read in its entirety. Here is the part of her main page relevant to this discussion:
If you already had gallbladder surgery
The gallbladder stores, concentrates and secretes bile which is produced in the liver. The bile is necessary in the intestine for the digestion and absorption of fat. It is also important for lubricating the intestinal wall. Once the gallbladder is removed, the bile lost its storage space and tends to accumulate in the liver. The result is reduced bile flow because the liver does not contract to squirt the bile into the intestine like the gallbladder does. The reduced bile flow usually causes indigestion, constipation or diarrhea. When the accumulated bile becomes congested in the liver, it weakens the liver functions and may even lead to depression. According to Chinese medicine, depression is a sign of blocked liver energy. The combined effects of liver congestion and intestinal sluggishness may also cause sleep disorder, insomnia, or bad breath. Furthermore, the reduced bile flow could weaken the spleen and pancreas so much that diabetes may result.
When the liver is badly congested with stagnant bile which quite often happens to people with their gallbladder removed, the only relief is to stimulate their bile flow. From our experience working with many people who had gallbladder surgery, a combination of taking Chinese Bitters in the morning (to cleanse the liver) and Coptis at night (to stimulate bile flow) will help to relieve symptoms related to gallbladder removal, such as sleep problems and difficulty with bowel movement. Both these herbal products are available from Prime Health Products , Tel: 416-248-2930.
A helpful regimen in the morning is to start with 2 glasses of warm water, then exercise for 1/2 to 1 hour before taking Chinese Bitters. Another 1/2 hour later, you can have your breakfast. The warm water helps to "activate" the intestines and kidneys.
It is not uncommon for people who have their gallbladder removed to have gallstones in their liver. When the bile that is produced in the liver cannot be stored in the gallbladder anymore, it tends to get congested and become stagnant in the liver. When the bile is stagnant in the liver for too long, it becomes too concentrated; then cholesterol and bile pigments may crystalize to form stones in the liver similar to what happens in the gallbladder.
A 68-year old man had his gallbladder removed about one year before he came to see me. I recommended that he should flush his liver after taking three of our products Gold Coin Grass (GCG), Coptis, and Curcuma. When he did that, he was surpirsed to find that he flushed out hundreds of small stones. He told me that he felt at least 10 years younger.
References:
Talamini, M.A., Gadacz, T.R., Gallstone dissolution, Surg. Clin. North Am. 70:6, 1217-30 (Dec., 1990).
Eidsvoll, B.E., et al., Dissolution of cholesterol gallbladder stones with methyl tert-butyl ether in patients with increased surgical risk, Scand. J. Gastroenterol 28:8, 744-8 (Aug., 1993).
Hoffmann, A.F., Medical dissolution of gallstones by oral bile acid therapy, Am. J. Surg. 158:3, 198-204 (Sep., 1989).
Hoffmann, A.F., et al., Successful topical dissolution of cholesterol gallbladder stones using ethyl propionate, Dig. Dis. Sci. 42:6, 1274-82 (June, 1997).
In Reply to: Gallbladder flush after gallbladder removal -- paulette and others posted by Mairead on November 23, 2000 at 12:13:33:
Thank you so much for this information as well as the website. I read your entire post and surfed through the website as well.I'm having a lot of those same symptoms, including the sleep problems. I can sleep 10 - 12 hours and wake up Tired.
I'll continue using the castor oil packs and consider doing a gallbladder flush.
Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving
Take Care Of Yourself
Paulette
Follow Ups:
Veg Juice Fast -Depends On What Types Of Vegetables Used
Posted by kmd on November 19, 2000 at 00:17:02:
Gallbladder flush after gallbladder removal -- paulette and others
Posted by Mairead on November 23, 2000 at 12:13:33:
To Paulette and others who have had the gallbladder removed:
Follow Ups:
Re: Gallbladder flush after gallbladder removal -Mairead
Posted by Paulette on November 23, 2000 at 12:50:19:
Hi, Mairead
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