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Hi MAI,
Thanks for your answer to my post below. I'm very sorry for your pain and suffering and glad to hear you have achieved so much in the face of so many obstacles. My prayer for you is complete recovery, possibly your experience will help others who have been damaged.
I'm not a scientific or research oriented person but I am begining to believe my symptons are mercury/heavy metal/chemical related. Regretably my own experience over the last year leads me to concur with your assessment of our medical establishment.
Could you tell me where to start: the clinics, doctors etc. you see as most capable in this field. What tests to begin with, can you begin detox prior to amalgam removal (if mercury etc)?
My thanks for your help and best wishes for your complete recovery.
P.S. Use my e-mail if you like.
Davey
In Reply to: MAI Reference Mercury posted by Davey on May 05, 2001 at 21:48:58:
Do not waste money on tests, they are totally useless an immaterial.
No test will show you that you have mercury accumulating in the brain, cauaing health problms.
Totally bogus operation from which the doctors and labs financially benefit only.
Healthy style of life and getting rid of mercury is all you need.
MODERATION!
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by MAI on May 05, 2001 at 22:06:31:
yes that is so right
who cares what the probably flawed tests say ?
are you familiar with the ring that is said to develop around the iris of the eye of a person with metal poisoning ?
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by MAI on May 05, 2001 at 22:06:31:
Hi MAI,
I hear you...But!
I just want to avoid going down any more deadend roads--I'm looking to save my money and health on useless treatment of symptoms--I need to find the root/core cause. And I am not as kowledgeable as you in this arena!
My amalgam removal is scheduled for July, but I want to assure I take All the right steps. Who are best dentists? What detox steps should I take after removal? What docs and or clinics are the best at detox?
And (I think) Very Important. I have been exposed to lots of different metals, chemicals etc. over the years. I need to test for All possibilitis as I may have more than just mercury. I don't want to concentrate on mercury and find out after another year of suffering that I actually had lead or DDT or something else.
I sense I need a base look at all toxic chemicals and metals to Insure I concentrtate on the correct/real cause.
I believe you are right about lots of mercury issues, and I believe that mercury lawsuits over the next decade will make tobacco lawsuits look like chump-change. But...I also think other chemicals are just as bad and can not be ignored.
I think Dr. Stoll is right on with his wellness theory. And genetically as we evolve we should be becoming stronger and healthier but we are not. I think chemicals, metals and other toxic man-made stuff is the X-factor. And yes I agree with your opinion on coverups etc. Every beauracracy is determind to perpetuate itself, look at the tobacco establishment, for God's sake, our government did and still does subsidize it! So it's not hard to believe that many of our chemical dependent food/drug industries will some day be exposed as covering up health risks!
Anyway--I hear you and believe you and hope you will help us all with some step-by-step methodical directions on what to test for, who to go to for testing, what to look for or steer clear of in detox and when our health is back, who can help us legally, because chemicals are big money and without some big-time legal action people and industry making the money at the expense of our health will not stop!
Regards and thanks,
Davey
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by Davey on May 05, 2001 at 23:15:59:
The lab tests are totally useless as there are only 3 labs in US which can perform such tests.
The cst of such tests starts at $ 7,000 and than run up.
All other labs are "playing games" as their tests do not have sensitivity, purity and proper protocols with frequent cross contamination.
Try http://www.pbs.org/tradesecrets were you can learn more. Check Bill Moyers blood tests.
Mercury removal must be done by crushing notby drilling!
If you swollow any of mercury during the procedure you may bleed later from the colon.
As far as detox that I believe is DPMS which is now the most advanced.
This is not easy task ...
As far as mercury lawsuit it .... already started.
Orgon just passed law to "control" mercury
Next after mercury will be fluoride and fiberglass to keep attorneys breathing.
" I need to test for All possibilitis as I may have more than just mercury. I don't want to concentrate on mercury and find out after another year of suffering that I actually had lead or DDT or something else."
Mercury for decades is the mother of all poisons!
Lead or other do not even count .... side by side with mercury ... so I will be not worry ...
Rule no 1 except titanium posts for crowns NO METAL in the mouth (no even gold!) at all.
I do not know who are the best dentists, I have not yet found a single good one.
All follow the rules of ADA, if not they will loose thr licence .....A good and honest dentist is immedictelly sued by ADA for telling th truth...
The lawsuit Tollhurst v. Johnson showed well what kind od son of a bitches we have in ADA.
Legal brief filed in 1995 by attorneys for the ADA in W.H. Tolhurst vs. Johnson and Johnson Consumer Products, Inc.; Engelhard Corporation; ABE Dental, Inc.; the American Dental Association, et al., in the Superior Court of the State of California, in and for the County of Santa Clara, CA, Case No. 718228.
http://www.davidmillerdds.com/holistic.htm
"The ADA owes no legal duty of care to protect the public from allegedly dangerous products used by dentists. The ADA did not manufacture, design, supply or install the mercury-containing amalgams. The ADA does not control those who do. The ADA's only alleged involvement in the product was to provide information regarding its use. Dissemination of information relating to the practice of dentistry does not create a duty of care to protect the public from potential injury".
Read this "event"
http://www.udel.edu/OHS/dartmouth/drtmtharticle.html
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by MAI on May 06, 2001 at 00:56:24:
and mercury is always contaminated with thallium and cadmium, which are much worse...so you see the effects of those two when you consider the effects of "mercury toxicity."
thallium is so bad it is on the community right to know list in the USA.
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by MAI on May 06, 2001 at 00:56:24:
for the right advice on amalgm removal, read Dr Jerome's book. i cant remember his first name or that of the book, but it should be the only book under the dentistry subject by a dentist with the name Jerome.
getting a dentist who is PRACTICED at this is supposed to be important, because improper handling of the extractions will release more mercury into your blood.
i believe chelation is the standard after filling removal. the jerome book will tell about this.
jerome does tell what and how to do ...and most important WHAT to have the methyl mercury replaced with...METHYL METHACRYLATE ! NOT THE NEWER PLASTICS, which are bad for other reasons, including the use of other trace metals as part of the compounds.
also, he tells how to call around to dentists offices and ask the questions that will give you to know wether or not that dentist is a good one...like Dr Stoll test questions for doctors...
like (1) do you place metal fillings ? If the answer is yes, move on to the next one.
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury-- and even the mercury is polluted with worse toxins in trace amounts ! posted by leon cavallo on May 06, 2001 at 01:03:54:
Mercury is Liquid and is evaporating at room teperature, thallium and cadmium are not,that is what makes a tremendous difference!
To stoe mercury mercury is topped with the oil to prevent evaporation of mercury!
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury-- and even the mercury is polluted with worse toxins in trace amounts ! posted by MAI on May 06, 2001 at 01:25:29:
Hair analysis showed normal amounts of mercury but high to toxic cadmium. I understand mercury "hides" in cells and many times will not show up in hair analysis. Do you agree? And would high cadmium on hair analysis indicate anything?
Had DMSA test: 500 mg DMSA, collect urine for 24 hours then send to lab--no results yet but.... the day following the DMSA and collection I felt the best I have felt in long time, but then, about 1 day later reverted to feeling bad again. I expected just the opposite, that the DMSA would "stir up" mercury and make me feel worse. What does this indicate?
Also, no matter the costs, could you name the best tests for toxic metals and chemicals, where to get them and since I must rely on someone, who are best docs, clinics etc.
Thanks
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury-- and even the mercury is polluted with worse toxins in trace amounts ! posted by Davey on May 06, 2001 at 10:35:01:
Lets rely on: http://www.pbs.org/tradesecrets/
As part of a study of pollutant loads in the human body sponsored by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, samples of Bill Moyers' blood and urine were analyzed. Eighty-four distinct chemicals were found.
As part of the research for TRADE SECRETS, Bill Moyers volunteered to participate in a pilot study of pollutant loads in the human body sponsored by the Mount Sinai School of Medicine.
84 chemicals were detected in Moyers’ blood and urine samples. Most of these substances could not have been present in the human body sixty years ago, when Moyers was a child. According to the study's lead doctor, Michael McCally, the compounds are products of the chemical revolution - five decades of intensive (and continuing) chemical use.
Because of the prohibitive costs of the highly specialized laboratory tests, testing for chemical body burdens is out of the question for most people unless they are participants in a study. In the Mount Sinai work, the battery of tests for each individual cost more than $6000.
Currently, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is engaged in a similar – but much larger – project to develop a National Exposure Report Card that will measure chemical residues in thousands of people in a range of demographic groups, including young children.
The 2000 Report Card measured 27 toxic substances that may cause cancer, birth defects, respiratory, cardiac, and other diseases. A future Report Card will increase the number of toxic substances measured to 100.
CDC National Exposure Report Card
The Mount Sinai study tested for five heavy metals, 22 organochlorine pesticides, a suite of organophosphate pesticide metabolites, several organic solvents, 17 dioxins and furans, 73 types of PCBs, and six types of phthalates. In addition to the chemicals they were looking for, analysts identified 78 semivolatile organic compounds in study group blood samples. The semivolatile chemicals showed up during an analysis by a machine called a mass spectrometer which can identify certain chemicals by the peaks they register on a graph. For many of these semivolatiles, publicly available health effects data are scarce, and exact sources of exposure are unknown.
Summary of Bill Moyers' test results:
2 organophosphate pesticide metabolites
2 heavy metals - lead and methylmercury
13 dioxins and furans
31 PCBs
3 organochlorine pesticides and metabolites
4 phthalates
29 semivolatile organic compounds*
* Some of the semivolatile compounds were also found in solvent blanks or may have been added from sampling equipment contamination. This means that identification of these chemicals could have resulted either from contamination or because they were present in Mr. Moyers’ blood sample. Further testing is needed to confirm the origin of the chemicals.
Potential health effects of chemicals detected:
Many of the compounds identified in Bill Moyers’ blood and urine samples are capable of causing a variety of health problems such as cancer or nerve damage. Most have been linked to several different types of health problems, based upon studies of heavily exposed workers or laboratory animals. Very little is known about the effects of low level exposures.
Carcinogen: 48 chemicals
These chemicals are known to cause cancer in animals and suspected or known to cause cancer in humans.
Developmental toxicant: 52 chemicals
Sometimes called teratogens, these chemicals may interfere with development of children in the womb, causing birth defects and other problems, including low birth weight, brain damage and neurological problems. Usually chemicals are passed to the child through the mother, but sometimes a father's toxic exposure before a baby is conceived can also cause problems. Exposures to these chemicals in early childhood may interfere with growth and development.
Cardiovascular or blood toxicant: 17 chemicals
Exposure may damage the heart, blood vessels, and the blood cells themselves - possibly leading to serious heart problems including abnormal heartbeat and decreased blood flow to the heart. Blood cell toxicants may attack the white blood cells that are critical to the body's immunological defences.
Endocrine system toxicant: 21 chemicals
The endocrine system includes all of the organs and glands that secrete hormones - the thyroid, pancreas, pituitary, adrenals, ovaries, testes and others. Endocrine disrupting chemicals interfere with hormonal functions that are critical to maintaining many bodily functions - diseases resulting from exposure to endocrine disrupters may include diabetes, hypothyroidism and cancer.
Gastrointestinal or liver toxicant: 23 chemicals
These chemicals may damage the stomach, intestinal tract, liver, or gall bladder.
Immune system toxicant: 17 chemicals
Immunotoxicants attack the body's complex defense system in a variety of ways - sometimes resulting in more frequent and severe bouts with infectious diseases and greater susceptibility to cancer.
Kidney toxicant: 16 chemicals
These chemicals may damage the kidney, ureter, or bladder - sometimes resulting in permanent damage that requires dialysis or in kidney failure. In addition to serving as the primary excretory organ, the kidneys play an important role in regulating blood pressure and blood volume.
Brain and nervous system toxicant: 25 chemicals
Neurotoxicants may attack the brain, the central nervous system or the peripheral nervous system. Symptoms of neurotoxicity include muscle weakness, tremors, dizziness, eye pain, blurred vision, confusion, numbness, twitching, paralysis, and death. Learning, memory and other higher brain functions may also be affected.
Reproductive system toxicant: 20 chemicals
These chemicals may decrease fertility, alter sexual behavior, or induce the loss of the fetus during pregnancy. They sometimes lower sperm counts or cause deformities in sperm, leading to sterility in men. Women may suffer menstrual problems, early puberty, and premature menopause, as well as pregnancy problems.
Respiratory system toxicant: 21 chemicals
Respiratory toxicants may damage the lungs as well as the nasal passages, pharynx, trachea, and bronchi, leading to problems ranging from irritation and bronchitis, to pulmonary edema, emphysema, and cancer.
Skin and sense organ toxicant: 21 chemicals
Effects on the skin range from itching, burning and inflammation to the severe skin rash called chloracne and cancer. Effects on the sensory organs include impaired vision and hearing, and problems with smell and taste.
The chart above includes chemicals both known or suspected to cause the health effect listed, based upon federal and state government health effects registries. For more information on specific chemicals or health effects, please visit the Environmental Defense website at
http://www.scorecard.org/health-effects/
Blood test results for Bill Moyers, Summer 2000
Units of measurement:
ug/dL - micrograms per deciliter (1 ug/dL = one millionth of a gram in one-tenth of a liter of blood)
ug/L - micrograms per liter (1 ug/L = one millionth of a gram in one liter of blood)
pg/g - picograms per gram, or parts per trillion
ug/g - micrograms per gram, or parts per million
Bill Moyers U.S. average unit
Metals
Lead 3 3 ug/dL
Methyl mercury 4 0.5-5 ug/L
Bill Moyers U.S. average unit
Dioxins & Furans
2,3,7,8-TCDD (tetradioxin)1 5.38 5.38 pg/g
1,2,3,7,8-PeCDD (pentadioxin) 11.6 10.7 pg/g
1,2,3,4,7,8-HxCDD (hexadioxin) 9.26 75.1 pg/g
1,2,3,7,8,9-HxCDD (hexadioxin) 7.32 11.7 pg/g
1,2,3,6,7,8-HxCDD (hexadioxin) 58.3 pg/g
1,2,3,4,6,7,8-HpCDD (heptadioxin) 125 110 pg/g
1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9-OCDD (octadioxin) 1104 724 pg/g
2,3,4,7,8-PeCDF (pentafuran) 9.76 9.7 pg/g
1,2,3,4,7,8-HxCDF (hexafuran) 7.43 7.42 pg/g
1,2,3,6,7,8-HxCDF (hexafuran) 7.54 5.78 pg/g
2,3,4,6,7,8-HxCDF (hexafuran) 3.76 0.54 pg/g
1,2,3,4,6,7,8-HpCDF (heptafuran) 18.9 15.3 pg/g
1,2,3,4,7,8,9-HpCDF (heptafuran) 1.84 0.73 pg/g
1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9-OCDF (octafuran) 30.5 2.28 pg/g
Bill Moyers U.S. average unit
TEQ for dioxins and furans (Total relative toxicity expressed as pg/g 2,3,7,8-TCDD)2
32.8 32.6 pg/g
Bill Moyers unit
Polychlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs)
PCB-8 1910 pg/g
PCB-28 3610 pg/g
PCB-52 1470 pg/g
PCB-74 16000 pg/g
PCB-66 2000 pg/g
PCB-78 2210 pg/g
PCB-95 1400 pg/g
PCB-99 10300 pg/g
PCB-118 16700 pg/g
PCB-105/127 2900 pg/g
PCB-146 5830 pg/g
PCB-153 48900 pg/g
PCB-137 2940 pg/g
PCB-138 35900 pg/g
PCB-128/167 2690 pg/g
PCB-156 14600 pg/g
PCB-157 3300 pg/g
PCB-187 19700 pg/g
PCB-183 6080 pg/g
PCB-177 4340 pg/g
PCB-171 3190 pg/g
PCB-180 71800 pg/g
PCB-170 18300 pg/g
PCB-190 4030 pg/g
PCB-198 14800 pg/g
PCB-201 16400 pg/g
PCB-196/203 9610 pg/g
PCB-194 10600 pg/g
PCB-208 2700 pg/g
PCB-206 4840 pg/g
PCB-209 9670 pg/g
I-TEQ-Max 159.0
I-TEQ-min 10.9
Bill Moyers unit
Organochlorine Pesticides
4,4'-DDE 114.0 pg/g
4,4'-DDT 240.0 pg/g
Methoxychlor 2730.0 pg/g
Bill Moyers unit
Phthalates
Dimethyl phthalate (DMP) NQ3 ug/g
Diethyl phthalate (DEP) NQ3 ug/g
Di-n-butyl phthalate (DBP) NQ3 ug/g
Di(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate (DEHP) 302.0 ug/g
Bill Moyers unit
Semivolatile and volatile organic compounds
1,5-Heptadien-3-yne X
1-Heneicosyl formate X4
11,14-Eicosadienoic acid, methyl ester X
2,4,4-Trimethylhexane X
2,4-Dimethylheptane X4
2,4-Octanedione X
2,5-Dimethyltetrahydrofuran X4
2-Cyclohexen-1-one, 3,5-dimethyl-, O-methyloxime X
2-Hexanone X4
3-Eicosene,(E)- X4
3-ethyl-2-methylhexane X
3-Hexadecene,(Z)- X4
3-Methylcyclopentanol X
4-Hexen-2-one, 3,4-dimethyl- X
cis-9-Tricosene X4
Cyclohexane X4
Cyclohexane, (1,2-dimethylbutyl)- X4
Cyclohexene, 1,5,5-trimethyl-6-(2-propenylidene)- X
Cyclopentane, 1-hexyl-3-methyl- X4
Cyclopentanol, 1-methyl- X4
Decane, 5,6-dimethyl- X4
Diphosphoric acid, diisooctyl ester X
Ethanone, 1-(3-ethyloxiranyl)- X4
Ethanone, 1-(trimethyloxiranyl)- X4
meta-Xylene X
Methyl isobutyl carbinol X
Octadecanal X
Oxepane, 2,2,4-trimethyl- X4
Palmitic acid X
Bill Moyers unit
Organophosphate Pesticide Metabolites5
Organophosphate Pesticide Metabolites (parts per billion of chemical in urine)
Dimethylphosphate (DMP) 9
Dimethylphosphorothidate (DMPT) 21
1 The sample volume was insufficient for analysis of TCDD levels. The value given is the average that EPA has found in US citizens. TCDD is not included in the total of 84 chemicals counted in Mr. Moyers’ results.
2 The Environmental Protection Agency assigns Toxic Equivalency Factors or TEQs to all of the dioxins, furans and some of the PCBs. All of these chemicals exert their toxic effects in similar fashion, but some are far more potent than others. The most toxic chemical of the group, tetradioxin (2,3,7,8 TCDD), has a TEQ of one. The TEQ for pentafuran (2,3,4,7,8-PeCDF) is point-five, meaning that pentafuran is half as toxic as tetradioxin. The TEQs for all of these chemicals are added together to provide more information about the toxic burden each person carries.
3 NQ – Not Quantified. Researchers confirmed the presence of four phthalates in Mr. Moyers' blood sample but were unable to quantify the levels for three of them. One phthalate, DEHP, was measured at 302 parts per million.
4 The chemical was found in the blood sample. It was also found in a solvent blank or may have been added from sampling equipment contamination. According to Dr. McCally, this means that detection of the chemical could have resulted either from contamination or because it was present in Mr. Moyers’ blood sample. Further testing is required to confirm the origin of the chemical.
5 Metabolites are breakdown products of organophosphate pesticides. The two organophosphate metabolites in Bill Moyers’ test results may have come from a number of different organophosphate pesticides.
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by Davey on May 05, 2001 at 23:15:59:
Davey, if a random subject such as Bill Moyer is actually a
"chem-bot" fit for duty as a toilet rinse, why be concerned with tests? It's almost a forgone conclusion: we are all chemically exposed. I'm wondering if perhaps it makes more sense to simply begin chelation therapy. I'm not familiar enough with this subject to say more about it, except to suggest a parallel: we take vits. & mins. because we're informed about soil depletion and the ubiquity of deficient foods, not because we test every cell and tissue for their makeup.
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by Davey on May 05, 2001 at 23:15:59:
Another consideration is that EPA has stated fluoride is more toxic than lead and only slightly less toxic than arsenic. And we get much higher exposure to fluoride than to mercury every day -- in municipal waters, most toothpastes, some mouthwashes, and any agricultural foods irrigated with water containing fluoride. In addition, many packaged foods provide trace amounts of fluoride due to the ubiquity of this contaminant. Fluoride is probably a larger health crisis than mercury, as it may effect the RNA/DNA sequences that regulates gene expression, according to some studies. There has been a significant amount of research over the past forty years showing the dangers of fluoride's cumulative tissue and cellular effects. Since sodium fluoride is a byproduct of aluminum production, one study considers the striking concurrence of wide-spread fluoridation to the continually increased incidence of Alzheimers in our population. Europe's near universal band on fluoridation is a testament to the respectability of these studies. I presume chelation therapy can effectively address this chemical contaminant the same as it does lead and mercury. Note I am referring to fluoride, not fluorine, a naturally-occuring trace mineral.
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by Peter B on May 07, 2001 at 09:26:04:
Peter,
Just got my test results back from Doctor's Data, no mercury is good but given our toxic world most have some. Reference range is 0-5, mine results were 16. Mercury is bad stuff, serious business, not like some mineral or vitamin shortage. Several holistice docs that I respect told me that mercury can be the core/foundational cause of things like Candida, LGS, Hypothyroid. poor liver, etc. So while working these issues is good, they may never clear and you may never get well without identifying and dealing with mercury and clearing mercury is not casually approached. For someone already toxic, the wrong approach can be devastating!
My opinion--If someone has chronic illness and works on wellness but does not have success, they are well served to get a heavy metal test it's pretty easy and not very expensive. We live in a toxic world, more so every day, lots of illness these days can be traced to chemical, metals etc. Except--not very many docs seem to consider this option, why I do not know, as there are clearly more and more people ill from metals/chemicals. This ain't rocket science, just a basic common sense issue that should be evaluted.
I would not wish what has happened to me on anyone but I would wish a nice 30 days of chronic pain and suffering on a doc who allocates 15 minutes for a patient, rolls them a pill as he/she heads out to the counry club while the poor patient suffers for a lifetime with some chronic toxic illnes that could have been cleared up had the doc been less arrogant and more compassionate. I spent a year going from doc to doc and doing reasearch while I was sick and Paying them! Shows,I think, arrogance to the nth degree..
Thankfully there a few excellent docs and dentists out there and I found some. My thanks to them and I certainly put Doc Stoll in that category.
BOTTOM LINE--Mercury posioning is serious.
In Reply to: Re: MAI Reference Mercury posted by Davey on May 09, 2001 at 01:16:08:
Thanks, Davey.
Walt
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