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I have been an avid excersizer in the past; spent years practicing for the olympics. I am now returning to cardio fitness as a part of the wellness stool after years trying to rekindle my passion.
Problem: though I am in my twenties still, I have never seen my heart rate top 175, not even in my naitonal team days of 7 hours of swimming a day with a heart monitor. 165 beats/minute seems extreme; it represents nearly 95% of my maximum HR. My resting heart rate is between 39-42 beats a minute. surely, dr. Stoll, a better indicator is available for me? perhaps the recommended heart rate can be expressed as a function of reasting HR?
ALso:
is it possible that some peoples reaction to accumulated stress would be a lowering of heart rate. In times of stress, IE, when I was enetering the hospital for surgery, my heart rate decreases. I recall seeing it hit 29 beats a minute while doctors scrambled to get a return for an IV for ANesthesia. Is this within your experience? I seemt o react to everything opposite. Nyquil works like speed, caffine puts me to sleep, etc... will this resolve with my sr? for me will HR rise with wellness???
thanks you one and all fro any future responses. this page is slowly retunring me to life and one day I will commit a testimonial that will encapsulate all it has done for me. OF course "it" means you all.
WK
In Reply to: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by warnerkallus on October 12, 2002 at 20:38:48:
Hi warnerkallus,
The maximum HR formula of 220-age is only guidance. Your MHR may vary from this formula by quite a bit, especially given the low resting heart rate you have. If it makes you feel better, Lance Armstrong has a resting heart rate in the low 30s and a MHR over 200 (http://www.lancearmstrong.com/faq.html).
To calculate your MHR taking into account your resting HR, use the Karvonen formula (I posted a link for it). Also, your MHR will be different for different sports (swimming vs. cycling vs. running). A better guideline for tracking your fitness and knowing how to train is your lactate threshold. For more info about this, check out the book Percision Heart Rate Training my Ed Burke or look online for information.
Take care,
Daisy
In Reply to: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by warnerkallus on October 12, 2002 at 20:38:48:
does this condition cause you any discomfort in normal life?
what you are describing are the premisises of a great endurance champion, be it in swimming, running biking or whatever suits you....
assuming you have been like that since birth, there is not much to do to change your inborn programs.
did you experiment with dietary changes?
In Reply to: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by warnerkallus on October 12, 2002 at 20:38:48:
Thanks, Warner.
Listen to Doc Ricky and Daisy. These numbers are only averages. It sounds like your resting heart rate says you will live forever :o).
"If it feels good do it."
The allopathic paradigm tells us that if you are not average you are probably sick. Of course, that is not true.
Since the allopaths have a monopoly over thinking in this country all books tend to follow that paradigm since anything else would be considered too strange by the readers. That does not make it right for everyone!
I wish I had your physiology.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by RickyDC on October 13, 2002 at 05:10:23:
this condition has been the subject of soem difficulties. from time to time my heart will fibrillate, but I cannot get it on an event monitor so I am told by hospitals not to worry. I get light headed standing up and it seems to take a long time for me to warm up. My heart is slow and has been since birt. My father's too is slow, but he now takes powerful heart medication to control atrial fibrillation.
I have done much dietary experiementation, but wihtout any conclusive results and only much frustration.
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by warnerkallus on October 14, 2002 at 16:19:01:
Thanks, Warner.
What have you done about your intracellular magnesium level?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by Walt Stoll on October 15, 2002 at 09:30:14:
Hi Walt and Warner
I just happened to come across this article and thought of your thread. Enjoy.
thessa
Reprinted from: (and at curezone http://curezone.org/art/read.asp?ID=33&db=8&C0=16)
http://www.drgrisanti.com/magnesium.htm
MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY & SUDDEN DEATH
Written and Researched by Ronald J. Grisanti D.C., D.A.B.C.O.
An athletic 20 year man is playing basketball and suddenly collapses on the court and dies.
On a hot July day, a young and vibrant college football player suddenly makes a great tackle and never gets up.. only to be pronounced dead 5 minutes later.
High School track runner dies after finishing second in a race.
The sad truth is 1 out of 50,000 young adults will fall victim to Sudden Death.
Most sudden deaths have been linked to a thickened, enlarged heart called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM), or by a condition that disturbs the rhythm of the heart called an arrhythmia.
When one sweats, a significant amount of magnesium is lost. Magnesium is the most under-recognized electrolyte disorder in the U.S. Dr. Mildred Seelig, one of the country's leading authorities on magnesium suggests that 80%-90% of the population is deficient is magnesium
It is beyond the extent of this article why the public is being denied the truth of the seriousness of magnesium deficiency and sudden death. The amount of medical research could fill a book, but it is unfortunately being ignored.
According to Micheal A. Brodsky M.D., associate professor of medicine at the University of Medicine and the director of the Cardiac Arrhythmia Service at the University of California.. mineral imbalances interfere with the heart's normal nerve function.
While most athletes have been conditioned to drink a potassium rich drink after sweating.. very few have been educated on the dangers of a magnesium deficiency. Dr. Brodsky states that arrhythmia therapy should focus on replenishing two key minerals: potassium and magnesium.
Almost all physicians have known for some time just how vital potassium is for normal heartbeat. Magnesium is an entirely different story, however. According to Carla Sueta M.D., Ph.D., assistant professor of medicine and cardiology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine "apparently, many doctors still don't realize how important a role this mineral can play in some heart patients. In fact, most never check the magnesium level. She has shown through her research that magnesium reduced the incidence of several types of ventricular arrhythmia by 53 to 76 percent.
Magnesium deficiency can be induced by the very drugs meant to help heart problems. Some types of diuretics (water pills) cause the body to excrete both magnesium and potassium, as does digitalis. And magnesium deficiency is often at the bottom of what's called refractory potassium deficiency. The amount of magnesium in the body determines the amount of a particular enzyme that determines the amount of potassium in the body," he explains. So if you are magnesium-deficient, you may in turn be potassium-deficient, and no amount of potassium is going to correct this unless you are also getting enough magnesium.
The Best Test To Determine Your Level of Magnesium
Although most physicians rarely check this important mineral, the few that do usually rely on test called Serum Magnesium. Unfortunately, this test only measures approximately 1% of the magnesium in your body.. a poor test at best. The "Gold Standard" and the most accurate test is the RBC Minerals or more commonly called Elemental Analysis in Packed Erythrocytes. This test examines the levels of eight minerals and seven toxic heavy metals. The erythrocyte is the red blood cell that floats in our serum to carry oxygen to our cells. The minerals this test analyzes from inside the red blood cell includes magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, potassium, selenium, vanadium and zinc. Another test which has proven to be extremely valuable in detecting magnesium deficiencies is called the Urine Magnesium Loading Test. In this test, the patient collects a 24-hour urine sample and the total magnesium is measured. The patient is then given a dose Magnesium Chloride 18% and another 24-hour urine specimen is collected. The magnesium is again measured. If the body retains more than a certain amount of magnesium, then it is concluded that the body is magnesium deficient.
Common Symptoms of Magnesium Deficiency
The most common symptoms include back and neck pain, muscle spasms, anxiety, panic disorders, Raynaud's spastic vessels, arrhythmia, fatigue, eye twitches, vertigo, migraines.
Best Sources of Magnesium
The best way of insuring enough magnesium is to eat a variety of whole foods, including whole grains, nuts, seeds and vegetables, preferably food grown on naturally composted soil. The green color of green vegetables is due to chlorophyll, which is a molecule that contains magnesium. Avoid refined processed foods, especially white sugar and white flour products, as most magnesium is removed from them.
Dr. Grisanti's Comments:
If you are suffering with a heart problem and have not had your magnesium checked, then I want to urge you to have your physician order the two tests listed above. Unless you have proof that your magnesium is within normal levels, I want you to realize that you are playing with your health!
References
1:Eisenberg MJ, Magnesium deficiency and sudden death (editorial), AM Heart J 1992 Aug; 124(2):544-9
2:Magnes Res 1994 Jun;7(2):145-53
3:Tzivoni, Dan, M.D. and Keren, Andre, M.D., "Suppression of Ventricular Arrhythmias by Magnesium", The American Journal of Cardiology, June 1, 1990;65:1397-1399.
4:Miner Electrolyte Metab 1993;19(4-5):323-36
5:Keller, Peter K. and Aronson, Ronald S., "The Role of Magnesium in Cardiac Arrhythmias", Progress in Cardiovascular Diseases, May/June 1990;32(6):433-448.
6:Biochim Biophys Acta 1993 Oct 20;1182(3):329-32
7:Biochim Biophys Acta 1994 Jan 11;1225(2):158-64
8:"Practical Briefings: Clinical News You Can Put Into Your Practice Now. Ventricular Arrhythmias and Magnesium", Patient Care, October 15, 1990;16-20
9:Magnes Res 1993 Jun;6(2):191-2
10:Hennekens (1987) Epidemiology Medicine, p.54-98
11:Schriftenr Ver Wasser Boden Lufthyg 1993;88:474-90
12:Am J Cardiol 1992 Oct 8;70(10):44C-49C
13:Fiziol Zh SSSR Im I M Sechenova 1992 Jul;78(7):71-7
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by Walt Stoll on October 15, 2002 at 09:30:14:
Dr. S.
nothing at all. I only recently recived your book in the mail and read the portion on the stable criminal and magnesium deficiency.
PLEASE tell me how I can adress this. Will a good magnesium supplement do the trick. from the descriptions I have just read I may be at risk for this. Of course many of the symptoms are common for other things.
Thanks again.
warnerkallus
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by Walt Stoll on October 15, 2002 at 09:30:14:
Warner,
Listen to Doc Stoll :)
I follow many endurance athletes, and they ALL test magnesium deficient.
I usually give'em to drink a mix of magnesium chloride +potassium citrate
(30 grams mg per quart of water, + 1 tbsp of potassium added)
out of that quart, they drink few tbsp per day, before or after exercise, and one at rising.
it tastes bad because of the magnesium cloride, so it can be mixed with any juice.
it might speed up your bowels a bit, in that case, reduce the amount a bit (not that having 2/3 bowel m. per day is bad anyway...)
plus, the "total tonic" is a great pressure stabilizer.
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by thessa on October 15, 2002 at 11:50:05:
Thanks, Thessa.
I am beginning to believe that, if I live long enough, I will see all of my pet approaches be accepted.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: my heart can't do that: Dr. Stoll and all. posted by warnerkallus on October 15, 2002 at 20:08:32:
Hi, Warner.
It is pretty hard to take too much magnesium. Perhaps a "therapuetic trial" would be your best bet.
Let us know what you learn and how you do.
Walt
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