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Hi all,
I've been thinking about milk and trying to make sense in my mind of all the negative things about it, such as how such a large percentage of people are sensitive to it, and how it contributes to sinus problems and ear infections in many people, and how they say "cow's milk is for baby cows"... But sometimes I think it no more bizarre that we eat the eggs of chickens or the meat of pigs and such. I see it recommended so much as a first line of intervention to eliminate milk/dairy to see if it helps a person, but I wonder if for SOME people staying on milk/dairy is a beneficial thing, or at the very least, NOT a harmful thing for some folks. So I guess my question is, is milk generally bad for everybody? (or just most people?) Is it true to say NOBODY should drink cow milk?
Terri-Lynn did an intuitive health reading for me and under "Milk" it said no change was necessary. Since I had not eliminated milk I'm assuming that means it is not detrimental to me according to her ecological intuitive kinesiology testing. As far as Soy Products my reading said to stay off all of these for now. I've never really eaten soy, except to taste it a little here and there in the hopes that I might get to like it, thinking it would be healthy, and looking for a milk subsitute.
I do think that for my boys, especially my youngest, eliminating milk may be helpful and therefore I am wondering about suitable alternatives. Rice milk is very sugary (rice syrup) and he doesn't like soy milk. He's a big juice drinker and resists pure water (I'm trying). I've bought goat's milk but am not sure if this is much different than cow's (isn't it for baby goats? :o) Also, would like a good substitute for milk that cooks well in recipes.
The New Year is approaching and big changes are ahead!
All thoughts and dialog welcome...
In Reply to: wondering about milk posted by kmd on November 26, 2000 at 17:43:20:
Hi, kmd.
Glad you asked that question:
MILK; NATURE'S PERFECT FOOD?
Cow’s milk is NOT “nature’s perfect food” for humans. Since I was born and raised on a large dairy farm in Ohio, I am sure that this article will cause my father to “turn over in his grave”. However, truth is truth so here goes: There are many reasons for the above statement but space limits me to just mentioning a few of them. I will list them not necessarily in the rank of their importance. Those readers who actually can see the relationship to their own experience would likely put their own condition at the top. It is well accepted that more than 50% of the white race is deficient in lactase—the enzyme in the gut that permits us to digest lactose (milk sugar). The lack of this enzyme leaves us only fermentation as a way to deal with lactose. Fermentation causes the production of gas (which digestion does not), which results in bloating & cramps in that individual. The black race is 75% deficient and the yellow race nearly 100% deficient. That hardly sounds like “nature’s perfect food”. Of course, we now have lactase pills to try to resolve this. I question why adult humans have lost their lactase production. Could there be a reason that has to do with general health? If so, the marvels of modern science have just given us lactase to defeat that purpose. Will there be a “whoops factor”?
We now know that at least a large percentage of juvenile diabetics are caused by an immunological reaction to poorly digested casein (the protein in cow’s milk). How this can happen is described in last week’s column about LGS. Since juvenile diabetes is the most severe kind of diabetes, cow’s milk is not “nature’s perfect food” for children either.
For the adult with LGS, the poorly digested casein allows particles of that protein (peptides) to escape into the blood stream which then sets off the production of antibodies tailored exactly to those peptides. It just so happens that those peptides are identical to the endorphins in the brain that are associated with depression and panic attacks. In addition, many of these same peptides make up proteins in our own bodies. The antibodies cannot tell the difference so they just attack them all—a basic cause of many chronic conditions listed in many times on this 'site and in the the Newsweek article.
Dairy products are among the poorest sources of calcium that exist—in spite of the dairy industry trying to cash in on the current calcium panic about osteoporosis. You need to know that calcium is balanced with phosphorus via the parathyroid glands. In the human, calcium is high and phosphorus is low (in blood and milk). The higher the calcium, the lower the phosphorus gets and vice versa. In cows, the phosphorus is high and the calcium is low (in blood and milk). So, the more cow’s milk you get, the more phosphorus you get (in relationship to calcium) and the lower your human blood and milk calcium will be. Cow’s milk is “nature’s perfect food” for cows and human milk is “nature’s perfect food” for humans. If you are serious about finding the foods that are good sources of calcium, you will have to go to the library & ask the reference librarian for a book that lists foods along with their mineral content. Look for those foods with high calcium and low phosphorus. You will find that cow’s milk is the opposite.
Commercially produced cow’s milk is nearly free of the essential oils needed for normal development of children’s brains—especially before they are born but significantly thereafter as well. Even the AMA is now lobbying for these essential oils to be added to infant formula. Much of the susceptibility to learning disabilities, cases of hyperactivity, attention deficit and aggressive behavior noted, increasingly, in our children can now be traced directly to these deficiencies. Not quite "nature's perfect food"!
An interesting study was done about 20 years ago with women complaining of cellulite. In more than 75% of cases, just stopping any form of dairy product resulted in relief of the cellulite within 6-12 months. Cow’s milk creates cows? This may be more related to the hormones in milk than the milk itself. Try getting one without the other!
Add all this to the fact that about 90% of children with chronic and recuring ear infections have them because of a hypersensitivity to caseine. Instead of recurrent trips to the doctor to get a prescription for antibiotics (which have been proven, over and over again in the medical literature to do absolutely no good) the problem would cease to exist within a month of totally eliminating dairy from the child's diet. Of course, THEN, what would the "poor" doctor do for an income??
Up to now, I have just listed some of the problems with “natural” cow’s milk. From here on I will mention a few of the problems we humans have added to this “food”.
We have all heard that cow’s milk is a serious source of trace antibiotics which is one of the major causes of the antibiotic resistant bacteria we are now having to come face to face with in this generation--check the ground water for antibiotics! The recent use of growth hormone (GH) has only served to increase this antibiotic content since GH increases the susceptibility of the cow’s udder to infection. The dairy industry has such a powerful lobby that it is the only food that is not required to list on the label what is in it. They have been able to keep off the label whether this dairy product has GH in it or not. Consumers have to rely on those producers of organic milk to put on the labels that this product does not have GH.
While talking about GH, I should mention that it is well known, in the world’s medical literature, that GH causes breast cancer and colon cancer.
It is a scandal of major proportions that it will be 20-30 years before the consequences, of this uncontrolled experiment on 250 million people, will force its removal from the market place. Of course, we have seen this with estrogens and other steroids added to livestock feed which, in spite of proof of its danger, is still being done—they just add a side-chain to the illegal molecule & sell it under a different name till the system catches up with it, then they do it again. The government is not going to protect us. We have to do it ourselves through knowledge.
Homogenization of milk was done only for convenience: so the cream would not rise to the top of the bottle. This is accomplished by making the fat globules so small that they cannot any longer clump together & float. However, now they are so small that they can leak through the gut lining into the blood stream undigested. These fats are called “fatty acids” because they are acid. When they are free inside the arteries, they cause small burns each time they brush against the wall. It has been known for many years that small injuries like this are the most common things that begin the healing process known as atherosclerosis (the main cause of heart disease and strokes). Is it a coincidence that the increasing incidence of atherosclerosis directly parallels the introduction of homogenized milk into our culture? It seems to me that this is a huge price to pay for a simple convenience.
How about ultra pasteurized milk? As you know, milk is now available that does not have to be refrigerated. Why is that? It seems that the extremely high temperatures needed to ultra pasteurize milk changes the structure of the milk in such a way that no self-respecting bacteria or fungus can live on it. I wonder what it does to us higher forms of life?
We can protect ourselves by deciding to learn what is going on. Your health food store has many publications about this problem. Remember, this article is listing but a few of the problems with cow’s milk. As Casey Stengle used to say: “You can look it up!”
Walt
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk (Archive in milk.) posted by Walt Stoll on November 28, 2000 at 10:43:07:
Thanks Walt!
That was one of the looooooongest responses I've seen from you yet, I can see you have a passion for getting the truth out about milk. I've read some of these statements of yours before, but learned a lot from the new stuff. In going through what you wrote, I still have some questions/comments:
1) According to you, with my race, I have a 50-50 chance of being lactose intolerant. The symptoms of this would be bloating and cramps due to the fermentation process. Since I can easily eat dairy, including ice cream, milk, and cheese in any quantity without having bothersome symptoms, that MUST mean I am not lactose intolerant, right?
2) If the human race as a whole has mostly lost their lactase production, and I have not, what does that say about my health (I'm not one of the healthier ones in the population who adapts to changing environment for survival of the fittest?)
3) In the case of juvenile diabetes caused by "immunological reactin to poorly digested casein", this is a whole different issue than lactose. How can we identify which of our youth is at risk for this? The urinary peptide test?
4) I am very aware of the process of the morphine-like substance formed by leaking casein ~ such is often a culprit in autistic symptoms. My son had a urinary peptide test for casein and gluten and his results were totally normal, no leakage of these substances found. I know and believe that for some autistic children, removing milk and wheat is key to their recovery. I did NOT know that the same process is at work in the conditions of depression and panic attacks!
4) Do you think there is a small % of the population who can safely consume milk, say in recipes or cheese in moderation? If so, any idea as to a guess on what that % might be? I guess I'm confused by my intuitive health reading from Terri-Lynn saying no adjustment was needed as far as my milk consumption goes. Any ideas?
5) About the calcium, WHY are pediatricians still lecturing me constantly about the dangers of eliminating milk due to my kids needing the calcium? Do they really not know? Are they educated by the dairy farmers? Don't they understand about phosphorus?
6) I had no idea about the cellulite-milk link. Ladies pay attention!! No more cellulite after a year off milk! It is rare you see a woman who doesn't have a bit of cellulite on the backs of the thighs, even if she is slender...
7) Trader Joe's sells guaranteed hormone-free, antibiotic-free milk, which I have started getting more of and less of the commercial milk. If you remember, Gladys told my son he could drink as much milk as he liked on this candida diet (grrrrr!!!) I like it on cereal once in awhile. I don't let my younger one actually drink the stuff anymore.
8) Hypothetically, if you do NOT have LGS, and you are NOT lactose intolerant, and you purchase only hormone and antibiotic free milk and use it sparingly for cooking, etc., is a problem still to be expected after years of this?
In Reply to: wondering about milk posted by kmd on November 26, 2000 at 17:43:20:
This got me thinking about how I am ready to believe anything that seems to come from the "alternative" side. We eat plant roots; however, they are designed to deliver nutrients to plants from soil. We also eat other parts of plants, and all of them have other purposes for existence other than to be eaten by humans. I think we have adjusted to eat what is available. And animal milk is one of those things. Some of them are more suitable for human consumption and some less. Walt said that 50% of white people have lost lactase. This means that 50% still have it. Milk used to be consumed in its raw form. It's not what it used to be most of the time. Even organic milk that we can still buy is pasteurized. I really don't want to discuss the cow's milk issue. I wanted to tell you what Dr. Walker wrote about raw goat's milk. I read this in his book that's called Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices.
I want to stress that he only recommended raw goat's milk. I will quote a few of his statements about it.
Whenever milk is, other than mother's milk, is needed, raw goat's milk is the most logical and beneficial milk for humans for all ages to drink.
Milk should never be heated at temperatures above 118 F because at 130 F the enzymes are destroyed. We should never pasteurize milk for the same reason. It is best, when possible, to use it as soon as practical after the goat has been milked, before the milk is refrigerated. However, kept cold in a sealed bottle in the fridge it will keep and be perfectly good for a day or two.
Raw goat's milk is one of the cleanest foods we can use, whereas cow's milk is rarely clean. Cow's milk has been proven to be very mucus forming, whereas goat's milk is not.
The goat is probably the cleanest animal we have. Its eliminative organs are close to perfect. Hence her disposition is friendly -- almost loving. Her milk has a vastly higher vibration than cow's milk. It is of certainly higher vibration than the milk of the mother who smokes, drinks "soft drinks" and whose temperament may conservatively be classes as "touchy.
Besides being the cleanest of animals, goats are virtually free from tuberculosis, brucellosis and others of the ailments which afflict the cow.
The quality of goat's milk is far superior to that of a cow's because it is naturally homogeneous. It has more nonprotein nitrogen, its proteins are of better quality, and it has much higher amounts of niacin and thiamine than almost any other food or product.
Goat's milk has been known to be most beneficial and efficient in cases of diarrhea in small children.
-----------------------------
In another source, I read that goat's milk is a lot more easily digested that cow's milk, and people who are allergic to cow's milk are not allergic to goat's milk.
Another fact: cows are four stomach animals, but goats, like humans, have one stomack. This fact is used to support a statement that goat's milk is more suitable for humans that cow's milk.
Also goats are more similar in size to humans than cows are.
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk (Archive in milk.) posted by Walt Stoll on November 28, 2000 at 10:43:07:
Dr. Stoll. What an informative writing. I have been trying to tell my wife for years about milk, now I can show her.
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk posted by R. on November 28, 2000 at 20:13:56:
Hi R,
Thanks for writing that, I was wondering about goat's milk. I've been buying it for my younger son. The goat's milk I get at Trader Joes is definitely thick and has chunks of milk fat that clump around the neck of the bottle. I doubt it is less than one day old fresh from the goat when we get it, but still it sounds as though it is a safer alternative to cow's milk. We've also started eating a bit of goat's cheese. That sounds gross to me "goat cheese" - LOL. It's not like we call the other "cow cheese".
Any info on the ratio of calcium to phosphorus in goat's milk?
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk - goat's milk posted by kmd on November 28, 2000 at 23:55:20:
Hi, kmd,
The goat's milk that you buy at Trader Joe's is pasteurized. It's illegal to sell raw milk in the USA. I really don't know whether pasteurized goat's milk is good. Maybe it's better than pasteurized cow's milk. Here's a story that Dr. Walker told in his book. A little boy had been on raw goat's milk and doing very well. The family goats died, and the boy was switched to commercial pasteurized goat's milk. After two days the boy developed running nose. Then his farther bought new goats, the boy switched back to raw milk, and his problems went away after a couple of days.
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk (Archive in milk.) posted by Dave on November 28, 2000 at 23:38:23:
Dave,
At www.notmilk.com you can get a lot more details. Does your wife happen to believe that milk is good for preventing osteoporosis? Then let her read about a Harvard Nurses' Study: www.notmilk.com/deb/030799.html
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk - goat's milk posted by R. on November 29, 2000 at 17:28:11:
Hi R,
So it's the pasteurization that is the main culprit here (in the case of milk-induced congestion)?
I went to Trader Joe's today, and they didn't have any goat's milk. I asked about it, and they said it looks as though they may not carry it any longer. They referred me to Safeway.
Maybe we should get a goat :o)
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk - goat's milk posted by kmd on November 29, 2000 at 18:18:14:
> Maybe we should get a goat :o)
In the book that I mentioned earlier, Dr. Walker said that it's very easy to keep a goat. It requires little space and food. And it may provide you with just enough milk.
In Reply to: Maybe you should! :) posted by R. on November 29, 2000 at 21:03:01:
R. Goats milk is real good. I use it to make my own home made soap. But I do not think Dr. Walker has ever had a goat if he says they are easy to keep.
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk (Archive in milk.) posted by R. on November 29, 2000 at 17:38:38:
R. Thanks for the website. I have not looked into milk much because I do not drink it and read years ago that anyone over two years old should not drink it. My wife just loves milk and because she likes it she is not going to quit drinking it. My wife is not into anything that has to do with health, for better or worst.. May I add my oldest daughter was raised on goats milk and did find, she could not tolerate any other kind of milk from the day she was born, and still cannot to this date. You have to adjust your taste for goats milk.
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) posted by Dave on November 29, 2000 at 22:23:11:
That is so funny! I can just see us now, we can't have a dog or a cat because of our allergies, but look! We have a GOAT in the back yard and we milk her in the mornings and walk her on a leash every night after dinner, while she chews up our shirts as we go along!! We could put a saddle on her and let my 4 year old have a little fun, eh?
Maybe there's a local place, if I really searched, that keeps goats and sells the fresh milk?
Our local zoo (well, quite a drive for us) has a petting zoo area for the kids with lots of goats. They are very gentle-natured but they will chew up any loose papers or other items they see. You are supposed to leave your zoo maps at the gate, but my husband folded his and stuffed it deep into his back jean pocket. One of the goats STILL found it and pulled it out of his pocket and ATE it! He learned his lesson about "following the rules", as he felt bad to see the goat eating a map...
Anyone know why they lick large blocks of salt?
In Reply to: Milk causes cellulite, eh? (Archive in milk.) posted by kmd on November 28, 2000 at 11:18:08:
Thanks, kmd!
Great questions!
I will try to answer them in the order in which they were posted.
1. Right.
2. No one knows. All it says is that you are not lactose intolerant.
3. No one yet knows. It is only about 2 years ago that the connection was discovered. We still do not know even which peptide does the damage--only that it comes from caseine.
4. I think that the safe % is pretty large, as a matter of fact. It is only in the population of people with chronic conditions, for which conventional medicine has no answers, that the % is high.
5. The AMA and the milk industry have made a fetish of keeping nutritionial information OUT of the medical curriculum. Therefore only those docs who are interested in medical nutrition (and take the post graduate courses needed to learn this stuff) will have any idea. The rest are happily ignorant since they are making so much money NOT knowing it. They have learned about the parathyroid gland function but have not made the connection to the calcium/phosphorus/milk reality.
Actually, it seems to be such simplistic thinking as to be: "Calcium is a white metal. Milk is white. Therefore milk must be a good source of calcium."
Remember the old saw: Brown cow eats green grass to make white milk and yellow butter." The color of milk has nothing to do with the calcium content.
6. It is the cellulite/dairy connection and not just milk. I hope every woman who tries this will report their experience--good or bad.
7. I know of no connection between milk and candida other than, if one is sensitive to milk the candida would make THAT problem worse.
8. Only if one has hypersensitivity to caseine--or develops it. Once one knows what those problems feel like, they can decide if they are being affected.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: wondering about milk posted by R. on November 28, 2000 at 20:13:56:
Thanks, R.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 08:39:50:
K,
with goats eating so many Exotic things it makes you had some experience in a zoo where you could buy popcorn I Think the salt licks have minerals also.
VF
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) posted by Vince F on November 30, 2000 at 14:13:32:
Hi Vince,
I didn't mention it before, but my little one (my son with autism) saw the goats licking the salt and so he decided to get on all 4's and give it a try! Gave it a good lick before we were able to stop him. I can laugh about it now, he didn't catch any wierd diseases or anything.
Goats are pretty cool.
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 14:45:05:
K,
just called my last breeder/friend and her dad has goats VF
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) posted by Vince F on November 30, 2000 at 16:05:00:
nmi
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) - LOL Vince! (nmi) posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 16:38:00:
My husband and I raise goats and I find them really nice animals. There are many breeds of goats. Alpines give a lot of milk, but the quality of the milk is not nearly as good as what the Nubians produce. Goat milk is naturally homogenized which is why the cream doesn't rise to the top. As soon as we win the lottery, we intend to buy a cream separator so we can make goat butter and ice cream. We already make cheese. My husband make a mozzarella type that is to die for. Wonderful stuff. Some people who are lactose intolerant do well with goat milk. Get some goats, by all means. One milk goat will do just fine for a small family. About a quart and a half a day if you have a Nubian. More like 3 quarts to a gallon if you have an Alpine.
Goats are great. No kidding. And right now we have 8 newborn kids in the pasture. Good luck everyone.
Grace
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) - LOL Vince! (nmi) posted by Grace on November 30, 2000 at 18:03:46:
Hi Grace,
I live in a residential neighborhood. There's probably some regulation against keeping a goat? Or, do I even have a suitable environment for keeping one? In the summers, it is so very hot here. Can goats take the heat?
You wrote, "Goat milk is naturally homogenized which is why the cream doesn't rise to the top." Well, that confuses me because the goat milk I was getting from Trader Joes had a BIG problem with the cream/fat clumping at the top, it was kind of gross actually, and shaking it didn't seem to help much. Any ideas? Not only did the cream/fat clump all around the neck and at the top of the bottle, but the milk itself separated within 30 minutes or so after pouring it, as I could see that when I'd dump out what was left in the cereal bowl.
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) - Grace... posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 18:50:37:
I live in a residential neighborhood as well, however, there are many times it's necessary for me to stop in order to avoid hitting the numerous chickens in Hialeah, FL. Don't normally need an alarm clock because my neighbors rooster wakes me up whenever it sees bright Lights!
Don't worry, some of my neighbors manage to hide a few goats in their wooden fenced in backyards. Tell tale signs are when you're stopped at stop signs and hear the goats making noise.
No, I wouldn't dare turn them in, as I've got to live here.
Take Care Of Yourself
Paulette
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) kmd posted by Paulette on November 30, 2000 at 21:11:25:
I have seen a goat in a residential neighborhood on a lawn VF
In Reply to: Re: Maybe you should! :) kmd posted by Vince F on December 01, 2000 at 02:46:48:
And they love ragweed and poison ivy, too!
wonder how their milk can be So good. Maybe we should be
eating paper and Tin can..
to feed the animals and was surprized at how gently the
goats took food from my hand. i was worried about loosing
a few fingers but they took food Very gently like my last
female hound.
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :)
Posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 14:45:05:
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :)
Posted by Vince F on November 30, 2000 at 16:05:00:
and she was All bent out of shape since HIS goats ate the
Xmass lights they had on a tree. She asked me if I wanted
them. She claimed they ate the bulbs also but was probably
just upset because her hounds had her tied up in Flexi
leashes and she has parkinson's and 6 hounds. I had to let
her o but will try to get more Goat info when I call her
back. She was having a Contract put out on the goats.
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :) - LOL Vince! (nmi)
Posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 16:38:00:
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :) - LOL Vince! (nmi)
Posted by Grace on November 30, 2000 at 18:03:46:
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :) - Grace...
Posted by kmd on November 30, 2000 at 18:50:37:
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :) kmd
Posted by Paulette on November 30, 2000 at 21:11:25:
Hi, kmd
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :) kmd
Posted by Vince F on December 01, 2000 at 02:46:48:
eating grass. It was an expensive new house and I wondered
if they had a goat or a gardner with an Organic Lawnmower??
Looked Like a Neat Invention...
Follow Ups:
Re: Maybe you should! :) kmd
Posted by Grace on December 02, 2000 at 14:01:37:
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