Dr. Stoll:
Your response that MVP is only a fad diagnosis that won't be around in another ten years is ridiculous!!!!
I was disgnosed with MVP after having an echo-cardiogram for unexplained palpitations. If it is a fad disgnosis (for the medical profession to make money like you have suggested), then why did the echo-cardiogram show the mitral valve in my heart prolapsing and also causiing a slight bit of regurgitation? If it is a fad diagnosis, then why can things like this be detected on an echo-cardiogram. I was also told that the AMA (American Heart Association for those of you who don't know) had reviewed it's recommendations for pre-medicating before an invasive procedure and they have cut their recommendation for antibiotics to half of the old dosage. I used to have to take 4500mg of amoxicillin combined before and after a procedure and now only have to take 2000mg one hour before. The same held when I gave birth to my daughter one year ago. I was given IV antibiotics because of my condition. Please explain how you can say this is a fad disgnosis with no symptoms!
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Re: MVP
Posted by Amy on December 03, 1998 at 08:31:42:
In Reply to: MVP posted by AMAZED on December 02, 1998 at 15:25:34:
Amazed.....I am stunned!!!! Are you sure you are a MD Dr Stoll?
I was diagnosed approximately two years ago with MVP.
I experienced severe heart palpitations,
chest pain, and fainted on many ocassions. After two years
of continual suffering and deteriorating quality of life,
they have found several different arrythmia's and tachycardia's
on my holter monitor's and event monitor results. My heart
rate would at times exceed 250 bpm. I find it extremely
insulting that you think MVP is a "fad" especially for those
who have symptomatic MVP.
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Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 03, 1998 at 10:02:50:
In Reply to: MVP posted by AMAZED on December 02, 1998 at 15:25:34:
Dear AMAZED,
Tell me this again in 10 years when even you know it to be true.
I have managed the care of dozens of so called MVP patients (What is YOUR track record?). In EVERY case they turned out to also have C-RS. When their C-RS was dealt with all of their so called MVP symptoms went away but they still had the MRI and auscultatory findings of the MVP. Eventually, even I began to realize that the MVP caused none of the symptoms.
Your emotional response just, once again, attests to the power of "naming" that the AMA paradigm has put to such good use. Once it has been assigned a "name" patients fall back onto blaming everything they have on that name & stop bugging the doc about all those symptoms for a while. Pretty short sighted so far as the patient is concerned but more "comfortable" for the patient than having no "name' for what ails them at all.
In the case of the MVP it doesn't even have ANYTHING to do with what ails them. It is just an incidental finding. Again, tell me of your indignation in about 10 years. in the meantime, it would behoove you to put at least a little of your time into learning (The archives for this 'site would be your easiest place to start.)
By the way, the reason I mentioned the AMA is because it is their policies, over the past 100 years of monopoly, that have created just the state of mind you have that allows the AHA to get away with such ridiculous positions. For you to assume that I don't know the difference after 30+ years of medicl pracitce is but one more way you will try to justify your AMAZEMENT.
I am fully aware of the changes of the useless antibiotic recommendations. Unfortunately, since they "made sense" at the time, NO ONE EVER CHECKED IT OUT! It was accepted on faith and we ALL bought into it. This most recent study was the very FIRST one to actually study whether our "common sense" made any sense. It does NOT. How many years before it filters down to you?
Why do I bother? Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.)
Posted by Jeff on December 03, 1998 at 10:43:15:
In Reply to: Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.) posted by Walt Stoll on December 03, 1998 at 10:02:50:
Dr. Stoll,
I have MVP, but I would be happy to explore other alternative. What do you consider the best way to treat C-RS. Are there any side-effects? How long would it take to see noticeable improvement? I have been interested in alternative medicine for a very long time, but have been afraid to apply it without someone who could monitor my progress (my late Grandmother first got me interested. She was 92 when she passed on. Her heart got tired, and she was ready).
Thank you in advance for your advice,
Jeff
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Re: MVP
Posted by Kyra on December 03, 1998 at 12:10:23:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by Amy on December 03, 1998 at 08:31:42:
Dear Amy,
Hearing your symptoms makes me think low intracellular magnesium levels, which would readily be misdiagnosed as MVP.A low intracellular magnesium can also profoundly affect mood and cause irritability, but I don't know if it causes flat-out rudeness and unwillingness to hear something new. Anger can also cause an accelerated heart rate.
All the best on your own search!
Kyra
Re: MVP
Posted by STILL AMAZED on December 03, 1998 at 14:49:00:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by Amy on December 03, 1998 at 08:31:42:
Amy,
Hooray! I am pleased to know that I am not the only one who thinks the "wonderful" doctor is not someone who should be giving medical advice. I was surfing the net looking up something for my mother when his site came up as one of the top ten for the problem she is having. So I decided to investigate. I was blown away by all the letters that this man gets. My own included but I was certainly not asking for help after I read some of the questions and answers. More people have Leaky Gut Syndrome and Candida that I could count. Maybe that's our problem (ha-ha)! I also investigated other parts of this web site and have come to read that his medical license was REVOKED!!!!! NO WONDER!!!!!
Amy, I hope that you stay well and don't let anyone tell you that you are rude and unwilling to listen to the alternatives. When someone's heart goes over 150bpm (especially in the middle of the night) you (or at least I am) willing to hear and do quite a few things about it. I too walked aroung with a holter because they could not catch my palpitations on an EKG. Mine too showed tachycardia's. Anger was certainly not my problem. Sitting in a nice restaurant having a wonderful dinner is not an anger inducing situation, yet my heart palpated there as well.
I hope we both find answers. I certainly am not going to visit this site again as a means to where to find them. Being insulted by someone who cannot even maintain his license seems a bit disturbing.
Take care of yourself.
Follow Ups:
Re: MVP
Posted by trish on December 03, 1998 at 15:31:07:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by STILL AMAZED on December 03, 1998 at 14:49:00:
AMAZED,
I think the rest of us are very lucky that Walt doesn't throw up his hands and give up when he's faced with people like you.
I find it interesting how YOU feel insulted after the way you posted here for the first time...
An now you write, "I also investigated other parts of this web site and have come to read that his medical license was REVOKED!!!!! NO WONDER!!!!!"
If that's what you call investigating, then I'm not surprised that you don't understand what is offered here. Did you actually READ any of the stuff you're referring to? You must be amazed a lot. And often.
"More people have Leaky Gut Syndrome and Candida
that I could count. Maybe that's our problem (ha-ha)!"
Funny thing is, that IS your problem!!! ha ha... I'm sorry for you.
Actually, you must be the one of the most BLISSFUL people I've ever met...so I guess I shouldn't feel sorry for you, but somehow I do.
trish
Re: MVP
Posted by Kyra on December 03, 1998 at 18:51:29:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by STILL AMAZED on December 03, 1998 at 14:49:00:
Dear Amy and AMAZED,
I too endured the scary heart palpitations, atrial fibrillation, and tachycardia. Squishy valve sounds, the works. I got intracellular magnesium injections and the whole mess went away. Inexplicable to mainstream medicine. I had to search out my own healing. So I pose 2 questions for you both to research: why did the magnesium sulfate injections help me? What else did I have to to prevent relapse? When you find the answer to that, you'll be well on the way to taking responsibility for your own healing. I wouldn't dream of giving you the answers. You're both too small-minded, angry, petty, and yes, rude at this point to listen to anything but your own self-important, self-congratulatory rhetoric. Go on and suffer in perpetuity, if that's what rocks your world. I hope this makes you mad. It might actually induced you both to do some real research and start thinking for yourselves. As to why there are so many letters on this BB--it's because what's offered here works. It's fine by me if you're mad at me, too. Your anger can't touch me. Sometimes the things you most need to hear aren't pleasant.
Most Vile Person,
Kyra
P.S. An extraordinary phenomenon peculiar to this board is that often people come blazing in with initial posts like yours. What you'll find is that despite that, no one here will fail to offer you real support (even though at first it may sound harsh) or be put off by initial anger. You may even find to your growing chagrin that you like what you find here. No one will ever say "I told you so." Many of us found our way here with initial attitudes similar to yours.
Re: MVP
Posted by Peggy on December 03, 1998 at 18:52:02:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by STILL AMAZED on December 03, 1998 at 14:49:00:
Amazed,
Too bad, you're really missing the boat. People here are actually REVERSING their chronic ills. LGS and Candida are precisely your problem.
Peggy
Re: MVP
Posted by d on December 03, 1998 at 20:33:25:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by STILL AMAZED on December 03, 1998 at 14:49:00:
well, it's obvious that anger isn't a problem.
Re: MVP
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 04, 1998 at 09:54:15:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by Amy on December 03, 1998 at 08:31:42:
Amy,
Seeing as how you still have your symptoms, and I routinely got rid of them in my patients, it is I who should be amazed at why you would continue to hold onto them.
If you can understand what I said: ALL of your symptoms are due to the cause of the valvular condition NOT a result of it. Since the resolution of the valvular malfunction is still not possible (by all conventional estimation) why not get rid of the symptoms by getting rid of the causes of the symptoms?
There is no doubt that such a thing as MVP exists. It is just that it causes NONE of your symptoms. You could go in and surgically implant a new and perfect valve (something no one would consider doing) and your symptoms would be the same. NOW what could you blame?
Deal with the causes & the symptoms will disappear even though there is no change in the valve.
I do not know how to make it plainer. NOW, it is up to you to educate yourself OR keep what you have. Unfortunately, ignoring your causes wil not make THEM go away and MVP will be the kindest message your bodymind is likely to send you.
Walt
Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 04, 1998 at 10:01:47:
In Reply to: Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.) posted by Jeff on December 03, 1998 at 10:43:15:
Dear Jeff,
I would first recommend you go to the archives for this BB and read all you can find about your questions since we have been covering that waterfront for years. Be sure to read the suggested references.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again. You also might be interested in my note to everyone about "Christmas gift for Dr Stoll (Walt's response)" to understand about the search engine you won't have to make this very easy.
Walt
Re: MVP? Why does everyone think they're an expert?
Posted by Greg on December 06, 1998 at 02:22:26:
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by STILL AMAZED on December 03, 1998 at 14:49:00:
Hi Walt,
Haven't written in a while. Still adjusting to the job. Popped down for
a while but this lame shame-blame in progress. It reminds me in a pitiful way
of something I deal with on the job all the time. See, I have these users
I help all day. They have computers, and they have problems with these computers
all day long. From their long association of using these machines, they feel
they know what is going on when something goes wrong. Mind you they hace only
the vaguest notion of what is happening, and why, and I can tell them nearly
anything, and they will believe me. They will repeat whatever I said
to their co-workers as if GOD himself had spoken. They are, however,
and obviously clueless. It's an easy way to get them to stop asking questions
which is sometimes necessary in order to start digging into the real problem.
Later when I have time, and I can assess whether they have the basics of computer
operation down, I explain to then the cause of their particular problem.
Some will don't want to know, and often (often enough to be scary to me, anyway)
there are those who take a great deal of pride in their ignorance.
I've stopped trying to explain what is going on, and tell them whatever bullshit
happens to come off the top of me head, or nothing at all. Mostly I am amazed
at the first group who will believe whatever I tell them, even if it makes no
sense at all, because I'm the one who fixes the problem. 75% of the time, it is
simply common sense, and a bit of thought would allow them to do what is necessary
to fix the problem themselves.
So I see it with you and your critics Walt. Often having an illnes, condition or vaguely
and seemingly insurmountable disease gives the "victim" a sense of
importance. It almost puts them on par with the doctor. On Peter D'Adamo's board
there was a fellow by the name of Ed Reich who specialized in this kind of
behavior. He never seemed to get well, and had treatments and medicines up the
wazoo. Lots of advice for everyone, lots of subtle and not so subtle put-downs
for people not will to invest the time, money, and belief in trying these surefire
treatments and such. But the overarching thing there and here is the total
disregard for new input.
AMAZED & Amy are seemingly following this track. You just can't help everyone, In Support
In Reply to: Re: MVP? Why does everyone think they're an expert? posted by Greg on December 06, 1998 at 02:22:26:
In Reply to: Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.) posted by Walt Stoll on December 03, 1998 at 10:02:50:
So, somebody could be admitted to a hospital for "atypical muscoloskeletal pain" (or some such heart-attack like symptom), suffer several days of immunity-reducing food while undergoing tests, then be released with a diagnosis of MVP, which would be better treated using a CR-S protocol?
In Reply to: Re: MVP? Why does everyone think they're an expert? posted by Greg on December 06, 1998 at 02:22:26:
Thanks, Greg. Of course, you are absolutely right! What angers me is that the AMA has taken this human foible (and it is the business of MDs to understand it) and deliberately exploited it to the financial & power advantage of the monopoly--------to the detriment of the public welfare. People becoming aware of this manipulation is the only way I know of to stop it. It IS impossible to please everyone. If I avoided putting the information out there, for fear of the kneejerk reactions of the few that cannot be helped, I would feel that the powers of darkness had won. Namaste` Walt
In Reply to: Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.) posted by Jerry on December 06, 1998 at 14:31:31:
Dear Jerry, ABSOLUTELY! However, not everyone's problems are caused by LGS or C-RS----------although it may seem so to those perusing this BB for the first time (or even the second). Remember, that is because those who come here have already tried every conventional approach known to man BEFORE looking futher. Of THOSE, a very high % do have what has been missed. In this medical monopoly, LGS & C-RS are the most common things missed. You could help sort out your own %s by getting Dr Crook's book "The Yeast Connection" and taking the test found therein. If you have a very high score, you had better learn more about it. All I can be sure of is that NONE of your symptoms came from the MVP and all of them would disappear by dealing with the causes of the symptoms while the MVP remained. I keep saying "you" since I am assuming that you are talking about yourself. If not, then it applies to whoever you ARE talking about. I hope whoever has this set of symptoms will take the time to share their experiences with the BB participants as they get well. It is time to stop the medical profession from, once again, foisting a bogus diagnosis on the public. Walt
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by Amy on December 03, 1998 at 08:31:42:
It sounds to me as if we are discussing which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which came first, the magnesium defficiency, or the MVP? Since the cause of both (as far as I know) are not known, I find it hard to believe anyone can definitely say that the cause of the SYMPTOMS has nothing to do with the MVP. I've had MVP for 14 years, diagnosed for 12. Yes, I have symptoms. ALOT I wasn't even aware of as being real symptoms until recently. Yes, MANY MVP patients suffer from magnesium deficiency, and many MVP patients suffer from other problems. Yes, Magnesium injections would definitely do something about their symptoms. My biggest problem is the caffeine, decongestants, etc , which causes major palpatations. I've also discovered I'm deficient in CO-Q10. Another problem that MVP patients have alot. But to say that MVP is not the cause of any of these symptoms, or problems is like putting the cart before the horse... until the good doctor is aware of the full cause of a conditions, it's hard to believe he can say that he knows for certainty what is the cause and what is not by his own accord. I don't know about the good doctors license. Haven't a clue, but I have decided, based off this conversation, to not ask the medical question I was planning to. As for this "condition" the good doctor and Greg are talking about, it tells me right here and now that the doctor does not really care a whole lot about his patients, or else, does not really care a whole lot about this board. Oh well, I'm out of here folks! have a great holiday. I'm off to find a better health board.
In Reply to: Re: MVP posted by TeresaR on December 23, 1998 at 21:29:44:
Hey, TheresaR, Seems to me that you are awfully quick to believe that you know more about this than I do. You are perfectly welcome to keep your present condition. You have not even done me the courtesy of going to the homepage to find out my training & experience. MY patients got well---which is a lot better than you have done according to your note. Sorry for you! Walt
Walt. Some people just come from the factory with their built in "Discovery Channel"
shut down. You can't help them. Think of them as either hopelessly clueless.
As my mother would say
-Greg
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My Mother would say STUPIDITY IS A TERMINAL DISEASE & THERE IS NO CURE. (NMI)
Posted by Greg on December 06, 1998 at 02:28:01:
no message except forgive the spelling/grammar errors...
Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.)
Posted by Jerry on December 06, 1998 at 14:31:31:
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Re: MVP? Why does everyone think they're an expert?
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 07, 1998 at 10:14:48:
Re: MVP (Ignorance is its own reward.)
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 07, 1998 at 10:53:05:
Re: MVP
Posted by TeresaR on December 23, 1998 at 21:29:44:
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Re: MVP
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 24, 1998 at 11:39:48: