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Dr. Stoll, I have been on thyroid medication for 30 years. I have not had need for a hysterectomy. I was 52 by the time I had my first bone density test and only because I insisted that I have one at my Drs. office. The result showed osteopenia, at 52 my spine was measured at somewhere in the mid to high 70 age range. I was never told that I am in a high risk group, although now I know I am. I have for many years supplememted with usually 1000 mg. of calcium daily. After learning that Tums was a waste, I switched to calcium citrate with D. At 54 I requested another test and my results showed a 6% decrese in bone mass. I was put on Evista and after 2 years, another test revealed continued loss and spots of osteoporosis, the Evista did not do what I was promised it would do. I was taken off the Evista and put on Fosomax and Prempro. After being on Pempro and a 81mg. baby aspirin, I was experiencing increased pain in my legs and discontinued the Prempro. Today, I read through some of your BB postings and discovered a calcium that you recommend, microcrystalline hydroxyapatite and to discontinue Fosomax. I take .75mcg. of levoxyl daily. I am perplexed and quite frankly in fear of my physical condition with the bone loss. I do not smoke, drink alcohol or drugs, I am currently removing myself from coffee consumption of 2 cups per day. I discontinued drinking soda 1 year ago also. Please can you help me with what I need to do to improve the loss of bone. I have heard that Fosomax is helping people and now I am only on it for 6 weeks and have a serious concern on it's efficency as well as risks. Thank You for your help, Judy
In Reply to: Thyroid and Osteoporosis posted by Judy on June 16, 2002 at 22:52:10:
Hi, Judy.
Personally, I would not take Fosamax on a bet.
Taking less than 5000 units of vitamin A a day and more than 800 units of vitamin D a day, along with the hydroxyapatite with boron at 2000 milligrams twice a day AND starting an hour of walking a day will show bone density loss reversal within a year and more benefits each year thereafter.
Let us know how you do.
Underwater exercises (every community with an indoor pool has regular classes now) 3 times a week will help even more--in addition to the above.
It is a real crime that docs quickly write an expensive prescription and hie you out of the office rather than starting a program like this.
Walt
In Reply to: Thyroid and Osteoporosis posted by Judy on June 16, 2002 at 22:52:10:
Hi, Judy -
My neighbor and I have been taking Fosamax for 3 years now. I have severe osteoporosis and would much prefer not to take it but at the same time am afraid not to continue.
I also take Evista and I take the Hydroxyapatite with Boron as Dr. Stoll recommends, realizing that he does NOT like Fosamax. In the future there could be many unknown side-effects for both Evista and Fosamax, as you and I both know. I also have joined a gym and use the weight-lifting machines which has built muscle (this helps the bones as does walking, etc.).
There has been no change in either my neighbor's or my bone density (although she says that her doctor said there was a slight change in hers). I have no idea whether my bone density would have decreased had I not been taking Fosamax and Evista. I have a bone density test each year and will certainly post if there is any change.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 17, 2002 at 16:25:40:
Walt and Raisa:
Raisa thank you for sharing your personal experience with me, I very much appreciate it. After taking the Evista all that time and it not not working to the point that I had continued loss, I feel the same about Fosomax. My health care provider says that Fosomax has had good results. However, I feel a clogging effect in my throat and want to pay attention to what Walt's message is. Thank you Walt. I truest your knowledge. 1 and 1/2 years ago, I had a toenail fungus and heard about Lamisil. I went to my provider at which time I was prescribed Lamisil. I took 2 courses of this medication with no results. During this time, I did a search online looking for toenail fungus information. This is how I stumbled across your website. While taking the Lamisil, my toenails began to clear up but please note that while doing this, I had startd the vinegar treatment. I had attributed the healing at that time to the Lamisil. My nails never grew out to full length in beautiful health and the fungus returned full force. I know now that the healthy nail that grew out was from the vinegar treatment and not the Lamisil. In March, I resumed the vinegar treatment as you prescribe and while my nails are growing slowly, I do have fresh new nail growth. My experience following your instrutions has helped me. I am going to discontinue the use of Fosomax. Yesterday I drove to Portsmouth, NH and went to one of my favorite health food stores. I did purchase the hydroxyapatite with boron. I do take a multi vitamin that contains 5000 units of A also 400 units of D. The hydroxyapatite formula contains: 1g f hydroxyapatite-500mg of phosphorous-500mg of magnesium-15mg of zinc, 2mg of copper, 7mg of maganese and 3mg of boron. I began taking 4 of this tablet a day but, it appears from all that I take that perhaps I need more D.Do you feel that I should purchase a Vitamin A supplement in addition. I do alot of walking. Actually, my profession requires that I am on my feet walking usually 6 to 10 miles a day 4 days a week on cement floors. I am going to look into the water exercise program today! I have also been reading that sugar for this condition is harmfull. Is it imperative that I watch my diet to such an extreme? Thank you Walt, by you sharing your freely given caring, loving knowledge, it is a light at the end of the tunnel for me. Judy
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Judy on June 18, 2002 at 10:01:00:
Hi, Judy -
It's good that you have decided to discontinue the Fosamax, especially since you have the clogging in your throat from it. That is one of the side effects that is a reason for stopping it.
Are the ingredients for the hydroxyapatite supplement you have for 2 tablets? That is the serving size of the Metagenics brand which I take. They recommend taking 6 tablets per day. The Metagenics brand has l gram of MCHC, 236 mg of Phosphorus and 200 mcg of Boron in each serving of 2 tablets.
Also, have you ever considered purchasing a mini-trampoline to jump on for helping to strengthen your bones? Dr. Stoll recommends this, and even my allopathic doctor has said I should jump as much as possible on it. Jumping on hard surfaces is not recommended - there is a lot of information about these trampolines in the Archives.
Again, good luck! Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Raisa on June 18, 2002 at 12:02:29:
Hi Raisa'
I am taking a product called "NOW." The bottle reads 4 tablets are 1 serving. This is how the bottle reads:
Serving Size 4 tablets.
Vitamin D as cholecalciferol 200 iu
calcium from hydroxyapatite 1 g
Phosporus from hydroxyapatite 500mg
Magnesium from magnesium oxide 500mg
Zinc as amino acid chelate 2mg
Copper as amino acid chelate 2mg
Manganese as amino acid chelate
Boron as amino acid chelate 3mg.
How does this formula sound to you Raisa and should I be taking 6 a day as you are? Thanks Raisa..
Namaste' Judy
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Judy on June 18, 2002 at 12:41:09:
Raisa,
I apologize that I forgot to mention the trampoline. Yes, I did glance over that information quickly and will read it with more patience and awareness tonight. I have a very good friend who sometime ago told me to do the same thing. I thought she was off her rocker, you might say, yet, it turns out that I am the one of my rocker!
Judy
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Judy on June 18, 2002 at 12:41:09:
Hi again, Judy -
From what you have written it sounds as if you are taking the correct daily amount when you take 4 tablets. The amounts of minerals are slightly different, but not much.
However, I think you should divide the doses and take 2 tablets in the morning and two later on during the day, so all of it will get digested and used by your body.
You will really enjoy bouncing on the trampoline. If you don't have varicose veins, you can really skip and jump on it to music or whatever suits you. I can only bounce gently because of my varicosities, but it's still fun and I feel as if my bones are getting stronger! Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Judy on June 18, 2002 at 12:41:09:
Pardon me for jumping in - but you might want to find a bone supplement with better magnesium. Magnesium oxide is used because it is the cheapest form, but it is poorly absorbed. Look for magnesium aspartate, orotate, possibly malate. The Metagenics (aka Ethical Nutrients) brand is good.
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Jan on June 18, 2002 at 15:24:38:
Hi, Jan and Judy -
Is magnesium stearate o.k.? or magnesium silicate? One of my calcium supplements has that plus magnesium oxide - very confusing!
After thinking it over, Judy, it seems that you should be taking 8 tablets of the hydroxyapatite brand you have, in divided doses. Eight tablets would equal 2000 mg. of the hydroxyapatite, since you said that 4 tablets contains 1000 mg. The Metagenics brand of hydroxyapatite I take has 3000 mg. of Hydroxapatite concentrate in it in 6 tablets.
I'm not good at math, but that seems right to me. Does it to you?? :o) Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Jan on June 18, 2002 at 15:24:38:
Jan, Thanks for jumpng in. All these different types of magnesium. I can't help from wondering why these companies aren't using the best absorbable minerals in their products. I thought I was buying one of the best products however, now is my understanding correct, that even if I am taking hydroxyapatite, if the proper magnesium isn't used, that I won't get optimun benefit from the hydropxyapatite? Thanks for your help and guess I will finish this bottle I bought and switch to the Metagenics brand. Judy
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Raisa on June 18, 2002 at 14:57:12:
Raisa:
By the way I am now understanding the amounts on the bottle, I believe you were correct when you said I need 8 tablets a day. Now what with the information that Jan shared with us, I will need to change to the Metagenics brand. Do you purchase this online or through a health food store? Do you stay on a sugar free and caffeine free diet? Thanks for your help again. I feel I am not so alone dealing in the darkness with this loss of bone condition. Judy
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Judy on June 18, 2002 at 10:01:00:
Thanks, Judy.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. The vitamin A thing is a new discovery: MORE THAN 5000 units of A a day is associated with increased osteoporosis. Depending upon your age, more than 400 units of vitamin D may be indicated.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 17, 2002 at 16:25:40:
Are the underwater exercises because of safety concerns?
Doing the exercises underwater removes most of the benefit of pushing against gravity - which is so beneficial to bones. (Doesn't it?)
I'm not quite sure how to reconcile this contradiction...!
In Reply to: Re: Thyroid and Osteoporosis (Archive in osteoporosis.) posted by Judy on June 18, 2002 at 20:20:20:
Hi Judy (and Raisa). I did not answer your replies to me before, because I was not sure what to say. I realized I kinda jumped the gun on answering in the first place. (about magnesium). Talk about confusion! I hope that Walt will clarify about the magnesium in the Metagenics bone formula.
I haven't heard of magnesium silicate, and I thought magnesium stearate was just a filler! Guess not...
Five years ago my 2 bone density tests (1 year apart) were pretty bad and worsening. I have not had new tests and probably won't, until I feel that my overall health is back on track and I have a motive to test again! I don't want to get too focused on just this one thing. (Maybe this is denial, but we shall see....)
I had planned on giving it a year before I test again or do something supplement-wise to address it. I'm not on any hormones even. My take on it has been this (but I could be wrong)... Since osteoporosis is multi-factorial, the context of it is everything. If I do x, y, and z which are recommended but don't change the context (i.e. unbalanced health), it's possible that taking a load of calcium & phosphorus could even be worse than taking none at all. (I'm given to understand that calcium can end up going to the wrong places (such as the arteries) if your metabolism is out of whack, even if the supplement itself is balanced.)
Hopefully the wellness measures I'm taking will vastly improve absorption by eating a diet that is suitable to me, healing leaky gut and get rid of factors (food sensitivities) which hinder absorption. This is going on the maxim "You are what you absorb" - not what you eat. My SR should help homeostasis all around. This is what I see as key - the homeostasis of the body. Eating a diet for your metabolic type is very important for this so that the body is not always wasting its precious reserves struggling to maintain the correct blood pH. And yes, eliminating all sugars is very important no matter what your metabolic type.
Nancy Appleton has a book "Lick the Sugar Habit" and another one on bone health (title escapes me right now) in which she explains how crucial it is to have the proper mineral balance in the body. Sugar in all its forms drastically upsets this balance and interferes with absorption I'm afraid to say!
Now the question for Walt - do you think it is better that I just go ahead and take the Metagenics bone supplement right now, regardless? Is it quite safe no matter what your metabolism is doing? What about that issue of calcium going into arteries and soft tissues instead of bones? I DO KNOW that this happens. I knew of a woman who took a ton of calcium supplements (probably the wrong type) and ended up STILL with severe bone loss - and atherosclerosis... scary. (Don't know the whole story with her however, or what was really causative.)
In Reply to: Re: Osteoporosis - why underwater exercises? posted by Jan on June 21, 2002 at 05:21:23:
Hi, Jan.
Properly done underwater exercises (you should take a class and ASK the instructor for literature about WHY) do everything that weight bearing exercises do while avoiding most of the impact damage to already weakened bones.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Osteoporosis, for Judy, Raisa, & question for Walt posted by Jan on June 21, 2002 at 06:03:40:
Thanks, Jan.
The answers to your last paragraph questions, in order, are:
Yes, yes, hydroxyapatite IS properly balanced so this will not happen.
Just do what you are doing, and this, for a year or two and get retested. Be sure to let us know the results and describe the look on your doc's face when SHE sees the report.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Osteoporosis, for Judy, Raisa, & question for Walt (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 22, 2002 at 07:50:53:
Hi, Jan -
I have neglected to tell you that I have not had a bone density test since I started taking the hydrxyapatite with boron (I switched from calcium citrate). My previous bone densities, as I said, showed no change, and Dr. Stoll helped me by telling me about the hydroxyapatite, which has been proven to successfully build bone. I've only been taking it for 8 months and am looking forward to my next bone density test now in about a year. Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Osteoporosis, for Judy, Raisa, & question for Walt (Archive.) posted by Raisa - for Jan on June 22, 2002 at 16:42:58:
Raisa,
I am interested in the claim that the hydroyapatite supplement BUILDS bone. A lot of things claim to merely SLOW the loss at best - so hopefully we can do better than that. Having no change in your test is certainly a step in that direction.
Here's to better results for all of us with this...
In Reply to: Re: Osteoporosis, for Judy, Raisa, & question for Walt (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 22, 2002 at 07:50:53:
Thanks, that is just what I wanted to know.
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