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bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite.

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bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite.

Posted by Ella on October 26, 2001 at 11:01:29:

I have been reading some of the archives, and I am confused about a few of the points. In one place it says that hydroxyapatite is made of insoluble calcium and insoluble magnesium. So how can it be easily absorbed? Am I better of taking calcium citrate? Also, in one essay it listed all the minerals needed for building bones, and the quantities, but if I was to take them all in the suggested amounts, I would be taking about 20 tablets at a time, and not to mention the cost! If hydroxyapatite can be absorbed, does it contain enough of the other minerals, such as zinc and manganese etc? Can somebody please direct me to where I can see what mineral, and how much of them is actually in the hydroxyapatite? Thanks for any help :o)



Magnesium? and a brand to order from?

Posted by Ella on October 27, 2001 at 00:34:22:

In Reply to: bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite. posted by Ella on October 26, 2001 at 11:01:29:

Hi, I also read that magnesium should be taken with calcium in a ration of at least 1:1. Does hydroxyapatite have magnesium in this quantity?

Also I want to order a boron supplement from america, cos it isn't available here, can somebody please recommend a good brand that i can order from online?

I have also read about natural progesterone for treating osteoporosis. There is alot of good stuff said about it, but somewhere else it said it could be a problem cos it gets stored in your fat, and also my doctor said that recent studies show it has no effect for OP. I'd be interested to here Dr Stoll's opinion or anyone else's on this.

Thanks for any advice :o)



Re: bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite. (Archive.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 27, 2001 at 08:55:26:

In Reply to: bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite. posted by Ella on October 26, 2001 at 11:01:29:

Hi, Ella.

Hydroxyapatite is specially made from fetal (or newborn) sheep bones with all of the macro and microminerals (in the exact proportion present in those bones) that make up growing bones--along with the enzymes and catalysts that allow that to happen. That is why it is prepared the careful way it is. It is totally absorbable. Where did you see that it was not?

I hope that this was fully explained in the archives about osteoporosis. In case it was not, I will archive this.

Walt

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Re: bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite. (Archive.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 27, 2001 at 08:55:36:

In Reply to: bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite. posted by Ella on October 26, 2001 at 11:01:29:

Hi, Ella.

Hydroxyapatite is specially made from fetal (or newborn) sheep bones with all of the macro and microminerals (in the exact proportion present in those bones) that make up growing bones--along with the enzymes and catalysts that allow that to happen. That is why it is prepared the careful way it is. It is totally absorbable. Where did you see that it was not?

I hope that this was fully explained in the archives about osteoporosis. In case it was not, I will archive this.

Walt



Re: Magnesium? and a brand to order from?

Posted by Sally on October 27, 2001 at 10:31:58:

In Reply to: Magnesium? and a brand to order from? posted by Ella on October 27, 2001 at 00:34:22:

There's a discussion about osteoporosis around 10-23 if you care to scroll down to it.

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Dr Stoll - the reference about insoluble hydroxyapatite

Posted by Ella on October 27, 2001 at 22:10:15:

In Reply to: Re: bone minerals, and hydroxyapatite. (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on October 27, 2001 at 08:55:36:

Hi Dr Stoll

The discussion on hydroxyapatite being insoluble can be found by searching the bb with the key words hydroxyapatite and insoluble. It begins nearly half way down that page. I have cut and paste a bit of it here. Please tell me what you think. On the end I pasted a bit that I found suggesting Mg should be taken in as high a quantity as Ca. Does hydroxyapatite provide that?

Posted by tim on June 14, 1998 at 23:21:46:
In Reply to: Re: Ionic Calcium Deficiency posted by Nancy on June 14, 1998 at 13:13:02:

Nancy, the calcium phosphate in bone is a form of hydroxyapatite. There are various forms of hydroxyapatite that are dintinguishable by x-ray crystallography, but all of them, including that of bone, have one thing in common, they are all equally and highly insoluble. That includes any concentration of hydrochloric acid, the type in stomach acid. This is what I'm sure of. What I don't know is, are insoluble substances like CaPO4 supposed to get across the intestinal wall? I strongly suspect not, at least in this case, because then it would be in the blood, and hydroxyapatite is a potent accumulator of and activator of the clotting proteins of blood, causing massive systemic activation of clotting.
I hope this helps. If anyone out there knows to the contrary, I hope they will contribute.

In the mean time, I did medline searches and its' pretty clear that insoluble salts of calcium and magnesium like hydroxyapatite are not digested. I'll gladly give references if anyone out there is interested. As a matter of fact oral CaPO4 is used therapeutically in the digestive tract to absorb ingested toxic substances and prevent them from being intestinally absorbed! Actually the picture is just slightly more complicated than this: it is possible to absorb calcium out of CaPO4, and the way to do so would be to have it ground as finely as possible(which Metagenics does), and take it with a source of preferably citrate(which becomes citric acid in the stomach), malate or other known chelators. In this way chelation, and therefore dissolution of calcium is maximized, and so then is absorption. Even though it is maximized, I suspect that it would be only a small % of the oral dose. Better to take soluble calcium if, in fact, it is the calcium that is correcting the osteoporosis.

This is from Cliff's paper on OP - Magnesium is required to balance the calcium and appears to be even more important than calcium, perhaps 400-1000 mg daily,

Also in some research I did at the library, it suggests taking Mg : Ca in a ration of 2:1, or at least 1:1 What do you think about this?

Thanks, :o) Kirsten



Re: Magnesium? and a brand to order from?

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 28, 2001 at 15:11:11:

In Reply to: Magnesium? and a brand to order from? posted by Ella on October 27, 2001 at 00:34:22:

Hi, Ella.

The effectiveness of progesterone for PREVENTION of osteoporosis is controversial. I have heard no one suggest that it will help reverse it.

Call (800) 692-9400 for technical information about hydroxyapatite.

Let us know what you learn.

Walt

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Re: Dr Stoll - the reference about insoluble hydroxyapatite (Archive in osteoporosis.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 28, 2001 at 15:57:59:

In Reply to: Dr Stoll - the reference about insoluble hydroxyapatite posted by Ella on October 27, 2001 at 22:10:15:

Thanks, Ella.

The interesting thing is that properly prepared hydroxyapatite is the only supplement that has been shown to actually reverse osteoporosis. Frankly, I do not understand how it does that if it is not absorbed. Perhaps it is because of the enzymes and catalysts that are in this kind of product that causes the miracle.

This is a great example of the simplistic allopathic (Cartesian) paradigm getting in the way of "outcome research".

Until something else has been shown to do as well (or better) I am going to continue to recommend properly prepared hydroxyapatite for the prevention and reversal of osteoporosis.

Namaste`

Walt

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