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Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

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Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by
Brian [2555.4] on August 24, 2004 at 19:20:20:

My son has had encopresis for about 2 years. From the beginning, he's been given Miralax morning and night, and when he starts "leaking", the doctor has him take Dulcolax. He's 8 years old, very athletic, large (4'8", 90 pounds), and understands his problem. He has 2 BM's a day, morning and night, 20 minutes after eating, but its mostly liquid. Just about every other day, his underware is soiled, either by liquid, or a bit more flaky type material. We've been on the same course for almost 2 years now, and I think we need a second opinion. Most encopresis cases I read about online are where the child doesn't go to the toilet, or has painful bm's. These don't seem to be painful, they are either liquid, or at the very least, slushy, substance. Is there something else that might be going on? He's a bed-wetter as well, almost every night, and the doctor he goes to is convinced that its linked to the encopresis, but even when he's "cleaned out", he still has nightime problems.

At times, he wets himself during physical excertion. I'll have him go to the bathroom right before getting onto the ice, and still, when he gets off, sometimes he's wet. We've gotten used to dealing with it, but think that it needs to come to an end sometime, and would like other options.

Thanks in advance.




Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 24, 2004 at 19:27:17:

In Reply to: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Brian [2555.4] on August 24, 2004 at 19:20:20:

Hi Brian,

Has anyone suggested an anti-diuretic hoemone nasal spary
for the bed wetting?
Is he an anxious type?

More fiber in meals will also be helpful.
If there is any blood in the stools, it might be worth
a chat with a doc re crohns, colitis.

Has he been suffering from any allergy to milk, gluten etc?

Ron



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by
brian [2555.4] on August 24, 2004 at 20:10:26:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Ron [1540.81] on August 24, 2004 at 19:27:17:

Nobody has suggested anything about the bed wetting. They either say he'll grow out of it, or its encopresis related.

Is he anxious? Yes, I guess you could say so, as whenever I drive over 50 mph, he tells me to slow down. :-) He is also very worried about people getting "hurt" as in closing his eyes at the circus, etc. In short, yes, he's a bit anxious. Why would that have a cause, or what would be the connection?

Thanks for responding. Even though we've been going through this for 2 years, we are confident and are just looking for alternatives. My wife is considering homeopathic, but I wanted to do some more research as well.

He has no alergic reactions to milk, etc., but it wouldn't be hard to cut milk out, as he only has it in cereal every few days.



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by Ron [181.81] on August 24, 2004 at 21:49:53:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by brian [2555.4] on August 24, 2004 at 20:10:26:

Hi Brian,

Your son might be a worrier because he has respect for life
afer hearing your concerns about him. He may be worried
that he is not well and needs reassurance about his not
dying soon.
Just because you are having a conversation about him with your wife does not mean that he does not hear what is being said.
Anxiety that need not be present is a shame to
have to live with. He wants to be normal as possible and
reassurance can work wonders. Dwell on his abilities, not
his handicaps. Make sure that he knows that you are not going to divorce him because there is something wrong...
Kids worry about things like this because some of their friends parents are probably split. He may be worried that
you and your wife are going to do it as well.
When a husband and wife divorce, kids think that it can
happen to them as well.

There is noting wrong with asking him if he is worried about
anything and then LISTENING to what he tells you.
You will be surprised what he tells you if you let him speak freely. Never take it for granted that he can figure it out for himself.

Ask your doc about "Desmopressin" nasal spray before bedtime
to turn off his urine production which may not be
turned off as it is supposed to be.
http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/g201.htm


Ron





Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 25, 2004 at 08:15:58:

In Reply to: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Brian [2555.4] on August 24, 2004 at 19:20:20:

Hi, Brian.

Sounds like exhaustion of the levator ani muscle (due to chronic bracing). It will take religious practice of effective SR (8 is a good age) along with levator ani training and PT (Physical Therapy) to resolve this quickly and permanently.

I, too, believe these problem are related. Both should clear up with this approach.

Let us know what you learn and how he does.

Walt



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 25, 2004 at 08:18:36:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Ron [181.81] on August 24, 2004 at 21:49:53:

Thanks, Ron.

I certainly agree that his lavator ani bracing is related to the unconscious suppression of his chronic worry.

Walt



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by
brian [2555.4] on August 25, 2004 at 12:03:47:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 25, 2004 at 08:18:36:

We asked him straight up today if he thought that his encopresis was worrying him, and he said that its his "only" worry in life. Quite a strain to put on an 8 year old boy. How does it truly relate to his "leaking" because he does go to the bathroom morning and night, but still has some leaking during the day-time. We talked to him about it not being life threatening, and it was a common problem, and that made him feel better. In the mean time, should we worry about his "leaking" of fecal matter, or wait longer for his anxiety to come down a bit?

Many thanks.



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by dmaryd [1059.1307] on August 25, 2004 at 14:59:52:

In Reply to: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Brian [2555.4] on August 24, 2004 at 19:20:20:

I would suspect an allergy. You might want to try and elimination diet/whole foods diet. I know kids that this has helped tremendously. Good luck and let us know. Milk and wheat are the biggest offenders along with sugar and food colorings. Please keep us informed of any progress.

Follow Ups:


Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by
brian [2555.4] on August 25, 2004 at 15:49:21:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 25, 2004 at 08:15:58:

What is effective SR and levator ani training? Where can I find a doctor, or PT who can administer such a thing?

Thanks

Follow Ups:


Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 26, 2004 at 07:05:57:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 25, 2004 at 08:15:58:

Also, you might look into acupuncture and/or chiropractic for temporary relief.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives (Archive in pediatrics.)

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 26, 2004 at 07:26:01:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives posted by brian [2555.4] on August 25, 2004 at 12:03:47:

Thanks, Brian.

I am sorry you misunderstood what I said. The encopresis is only an additional worry not the cause.

The way this works is that the encopresis is less painful than feeling the chronic worry that is not being expressed. It is a symptom, not a cause.

A good child psychiatrist (one that rarely uses drugs) might be able to help. In the meantime, the direct relief of the bracing is his best bet.

Walt



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives (Archive in pediatrics.)

Posted by
brian [2555.4] on August 27, 2004 at 06:13:09:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives (Archive in pediatrics.) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 26, 2004 at 07:26:01:

Thank you Dr. Stoll, we are looking into other alternatives. Its tough to think back to "its a psychological issue" now that we have been trained that its all physical. In such a happy, well adjusted kid, its also hard to realize where that anxiety comes from.



Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives (Archive in pediatrics.)

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 28, 2004 at 09:03:38:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives (Archive in pediatrics.) posted by brian [2555.4] on August 27, 2004 at 06:13:09:

Brian,

It is REALLY hard for people to grasp the fact that only 10% of the chronic stress storage in the hypothalamus is psychosocial. See the home page article about "The Modern Medical Interpretation of Stress" and let us know what you learn.

Walt



IMPATIENCE

Posted by
brian [2555.4] on August 28, 2004 at 22:08:49:

In Reply to: Re: Odd encopresis problem-looking for alternatives (Archive in pediatrics.) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 28, 2004 at 09:03:38:

My wife and I truly do not know where to go from here. Even with constant reassuring, disussing his worry, and constant vigilance, the last few days, he's been soiling lightly in his pants and wetting, almost even more. He takes plenty of fiber, miralax as ordered by his gi specialist, and this seems to make things worse. He has 2-4 bm's a day, but they are "snake" like, which the gi specialist says means he's constipated. I can't imagine he's constipated if he goes so much, and eats so relatively little.

It seems like our pattern is this: Soiling, call the GI, who says to clean him out with dulcolax. He suffers through that for a few days, and for a day or two, his "leaking" is minimal. Then his leaking gets bigger and bigger, and more frequent, at which time we contact the gi specialist again, who has us clean him out....again!!! Frustrated, with no other place to turn, we headed to this website. Completely different opinions, all psychological we read, and so we have tried talking with him about worry, etc., and today we go through 3-4 pairs of underpants.



Re: IMPATIENCE--anyone have the title of book on meditating with kids?

Posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on August 29, 2004 at 00:08:36:

In Reply to: IMPATIENCE posted by brian [2555.4] on August 28, 2004 at 22:08:49:

Sounds like Brian could use some help with that for his son.

Brian, SR is just an abbreviation for skilled relaxation--a twice-daily practice of meditation, breathing, listening to relaxing music, active meditation like tai chi, etc. You can help your son learn any method that works, but for best results it is done twice a day every day for at least 20 minutes. Dr. Stoll is saying that just talking to your son about the worry is not enough. Most of the stress we experience is from things we are not really conscious of...environmental stresses like EMF radiation, unpleasant/harmful odors, noise--even low ones, unconscious reactions to minor stressful situations--like stomach churning or heart racing, bracing/holding tension in our muscles in response to any kind of stress or fear.

I hope you can find a workable solution.

Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg



Re: IMPATIENCE

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 29, 2004 at 06:50:40:

In Reply to: IMPATIENCE posted by brian [2555.4] on August 28, 2004 at 22:08:49:

Thanks, Brian.

Getting back in control of the levator ani will take at least months and could take as long as 6-12 months. Reread what I recommended in the initial response. At least then you will be pointed in the right direction.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: IMPATIENCE

Posted by Sally [2119.10] on August 29, 2004 at 08:55:59:

In Reply to: IMPATIENCE posted by brian [2555.4] on August 28, 2004 at 22:08:49:

Have you tried chiropractic at all? I don't have experience with this but you might check it out by calling a few.

Follow Ups:


Re: IMPATIENCE--anyone have the title of book on meditating with kids?

Posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on August 29, 2004 at 12:28:44:

In Reply to: Re: IMPATIENCE--anyone have the title of book on meditating with kids? posted by Nutmeg [86.74] on August 29, 2004 at 00:08:36:

Thanks, Nutmeg.

Impatience,

There are a number of good ones. At least one is mentioned in the archives about SR.

Walt

Follow Ups:


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