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I am new to this BB but have spent 6-8 hours reviewing archive discussions around techiniques for elimination of possible food allergens, LGS and metabolic type.
Three months ago I developed what has been dignosed as Psoriatic arthritis. The condition had a rapid onset and was diagnosed within 6 weeks. The main symptoms are mild to moderate joint pain in my hands, feet, tailbone, and hips. I also have moderate to severe pain in my right knee. The right knee has been shown to have a small meniscal tear, and twice developed an effussion that significantly restricted joint movement. An orthapedic specialist drained the knee the first time, the second time (about 3 weeks later) it was by a rheumatoligist. The rheumatologist, specializing in psA was the one who confirmed the condition.
psA does not show a rheumatic factor in the blood so the blood test I had with high sed rates at first were a challenge (I had other sypmtoms, fever, night sweats, fatigue). The rheumatologist did an MRI with dye and the results show considerable inflammation around the knee, both in the tissue and the nds of the bone.
This all happened extremely fast. One day I felt fine, within two weeks time I felt as though I had been slammed against a concrete wall.
IT'S CHRONIC! that's not what I wanted to hear and maybe a classic case of denial has me believing otherwise, but that's what I've been told. In my denial however, I find it hard to imagine that something with such a rapid onset, that is not pathegenic in nature, is not reversible.
I grasped for the possibility and comparatively simple hope that an allergic reaction had caused the problem. I found this BB and read about the e/diet. Try it I thought.
I jumped right in and went four days on spring water. By the fourth day My knee was working rather well, not like new, but decent. I hadn't taken celebrex since the start either and previous attempts at no medication for more than 36 hours were pretty tough on thee knee.
The fourth day ended in the evening so the start of the fifth day was an evening meal. I began to eat some of the 'safe' foods, my first meal was trout and a yam followed with a pear about two hours later. Overall the day was not so good. Stiffness and general joint pain was more noticable. For dinner I had more trout a yam and later a peach. Still nothing off the 'safe' list. The next day was worse still. But I had done the fast and was not going to give up. I introduced oatmeal for breakfast. Corn on the cob for lunch. Shredded wheat for dinner. A Glass of milk in the later evening. Nothing other than the continued and increasing pain and stiffness. Day seven is today. I started off with an egg , some shredded wheat and 200mg of celebrex.
Sorry about the long intro, but i feel it is important to the big question. I will continue to introduce more food and am somewhat relieved to find no sensitivity so far. Since the symptoms appear to have subsided somewhat during a fast, and manifest themselves after eating anything at all is this a validation for LGS. I would appreciate any input on this that is relavent. Stress has been HUGE for me in the last 18 months and I recognize the need for some relief. Something a little more in depth than 'you got it' would be interesting.
In Reply to: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet posted by Greg on September 10, 2000 at 12:29:26:
Hi, Greg
I'm sure you'll find a lot of helpful info on Dr. Stoll's board. I am not familiar with your condition; I commend you for looking further for answers & solutions.
The e-diet I know about on this board has an initial "clearing" phase of 7 days of eating the suggested foods that are least reactive or allergy inducing. Only after you have "cleared", at the end of those 7 days, should you be truely ready to begin the testing phase - one food at a time, 3 a day unless you are testing dairy (& maybe wheat - can't remember). For 21 days after you have cleared you can fairly reliably test foods to find out if they produce symptoms. Does that all make sense? Corn, wheat, milk and egg - those are foods very likely to produce an undesirable response.
As for the LGS, now that is certainly a condition requiring some lifestyle and food changes, as I unfortunately know up close & personal. So read up on skilled relaxation, elevatae that pesky leg and get started with this process.
I know you have read for several hours on this website but there's plenty more, if you want to develop a wellness program. On the homepage if you'll scroll down some, you will see a list of articles written by Dr. Stoll. There is a Glossary/Index to clarify whatever you need. And of course my favorite, the archives, which I access through the search feature. I came to this site with a chronic illness before last Christmas and I'm sure I've read and researched for probably more than 200 hours (I'm sort of an egg-head) and there are topics I've still never even read about.
Don't forget to check back on this BBS for other responses to your post. Take care.
June
In Reply to: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet posted by Greg on September 10, 2000 at 12:29:26:
that talked about it and it's linked below.
I never heard of this before, so I'm not sure if what I'm going to say will apply, please be sure to do your research....
To protect from (any further) joint degeneration and also provide some pain relief, I would look into a good quality glucosamin/chondroitin product (studies have shown they each work better when used together).
To help with the inflammation, I would add some omega-3 fatty acids to your diet (I prefer fround flaxseed). There are also various herbs that can be used as anti-inflammatories.
I also think that the muscles near the joints (in degenerative arthritis) need to be supported -- I have used alfalfa and a vitamin B complex (B-50) for help with this, but there are other combinations that work, although I think the B vitamins are very important.
This is certainly not an exhaustive list and I'm not sure all of it applies to your condition....I'll be interested to see what the other folks say.
In Reply to: I could only find one site... posted by LT on September 10, 2000 at 14:46:24:
Hi, Greg
I'm unable to answer your questions as LT was able to answer. However, came up with several other websites for you to review as well. Located these through google.com search engine. Never heard of this myself either.
Hope this helps
Take Care Of Yourself
Paulette
In Reply to: Re: I could only find one site... posted by Paulette on September 10, 2000 at 15:26:52:
google gave me no search results, which I thought was odd. Oops! Glad you found more!
In Reply to: Re: I could only find one site... posted by Paulette on September 10, 2000 at 15:26:52:
Hi, LT
First time I tried google gave me no websites as well. I added an "i" before the c in order to get those websites.
Paulette
In Reply to: Re: I could only find one site... posted by Paulette on September 10, 2000 at 16:04:34:
In Reply to: Re: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet posted by June on September 10, 2000 at 13:13:35:
having Great sucess with Cod Live Oil for arthritis I would
recomend trying that and MSM is said to help it and helped
knee pain in me that wasn't supposed to be arthritis but
weak muscles. The arthritic type pains disapeared and have
been gone for 7 yrs and different brands of MSM have
replaced all the things I had to take before for sinus
congestion, muscle aches, and stamina. Ester-C got me
exercising so I started lifting weights and taking aminos
that WL's take and they are helping since I am lifting
weights with little or no pains after working out where
before food shoping would wipe me out.
I feel you have to Try different things to find out what
might help you since everyone can be different but sometimes
Simple things can cause Amazing cures. I search and research
and when something sounds like it might help what I feel has
or is happening to me I give it a try. I haven't had much
luck with the Med profession. They told me my injury was
perminant, had no answers, or what I did That Helped was
the Worst thing I could have done. I have to laugh since I
was loosing my vision and brought it back with bicarbonate
so you know what I thought about that Dr...RUN !!!
VF
In Reply to: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet posted by Greg on September 10, 2000 at 12:29:26:
Hi Greg,
I too have PA, and I too had (still have) many problems associated with it. I'll try and summarize as much as I can since I've written much (at length) previously on the board.
Anti-inflam's have done me more harm than good. I believe that PA has its root in GI tract. Allopaths will swear up and down that it dosen't, but IMHO it does. Anti-inflam's make my GI symptoms worse (gas, bloating, poor overall digestion, etc.). Last January I gave them up when I found out that my liver enzymes were way up. It was tough but I found other ways to deal with the pain (more on that later). Apparently, this is not uncommon. My allopaths weren't experts with regards to PA, so discussing this issue with your doctor may be a good idea. Regardless, get your liver checked.
In addition, I had a "comprehensive stool anylysis" and a "candida complex " performed. These tests displayed many apparent "problems" with my GI tract. When I presented these tests to my specialist they balked at them (not the liver tests, that scared them since they may have felt some responsibility. It was never discussed, but I got that impression.). The truth was that they didn't know how to utilize them. You have to know up front that allopaths do not know a lot about PA, or arthritis in general (IMHO). Get used to it. Which brings up my next point, a naturopath is more likely to help you in the long run than an allopath when treating chronic illnesses. However, this BB has helped me more than both, so you may not need either. Ask Dr. Stoll for a referal in your area if you think you need it.
So then the question is: what to do?
1- SR is your friend. Relaxation and stress reduction in general is your friend. Finding and practicing a reliable relaxation technique should be your first priority at this point. I presently use a light and sound machine. Before that I used relaxation and progressive relaxation tapes. Use them at least 20 minutes twice a day for while before even considering an elimination diet (IMHO). Use them for a couple to four weeks, then find a biofeedback specialist to check your brainwaves during a session to ensure that you're in the appropriate range (alpha-theta-delta). I've also been using a CES (cranial electo-stimilator). The jury's still out on this devise, but it may have merit.
2- I woulden't stress too much about the e-diet yet (play with it when the SR starts to kick in later). However, I would eat a "whole food diet", which is primarily organic at this point. I believe the reason a whole food diet works so well is because psoriasis patients have a candida involvement (Dr. Stoll's mentioned this in several postings, and my discussions with several other people with psoriasis seem to indicate this). In addition, I've noted that most people who have psoriasis react poorly to red meat, dark poultry, and may other meats. I've found white fish (Cod, sole, pre-soaked water packed tuna) to be good, in addition to staying away from all oils except omega 3 fatty acids (flax and hemp mainly, moderate olive oil and safflower). Diet is an individual thing, so take my comments with regards to diet in the spirit to which they were intended, but I honestly believe that most psoriasis patients are Agriculturist. You may be different. Also, I've found a coffee with 1/2 tbs of sugar can help with the symptoms. This goes against the whole foods concept, but hey, it works for me. Try it, it's also a good indicator that you're an agriculturist. Finally, under-eating helps, but I think you may have figured this out already.
3- Since I believe that psoriasis has a complicating factor, namely candida, eventually you may have to deal with this. Dr. Stoll suggest that SR can eliminate this. I haven't been so lucky. Do some reading on this subject, there's plenty on this BB, and many books are dedicated to the subject. Read up, and then when you're feeling better, consider introducing an anti-fungal. Before I knew that my liver was compromised, I tried nystatin and diflucan. The first day I tried the diflucan I had a 90% remission in my symptoms. There is some truth to this.
4- Exercise regularly. You won't want to, but you have to. Swimming, biking, whatever. My progression was identical to yours, and I let it rule my life. I put on 30lbs., got depressed, and gave myself "carte blanche" to get lazy. O.K. you may feel like lying in bed and not doing anything, but the additional weight will be a burden that will make matters worse. Stay as lean as you can, it helps. In addition, the exercise blows off steam, thereby reducing stress.
5- Supplements that help. If you are an agriculturist, MSM will help. I think that Robert M. mentions it in a post. He says it has something to do with being a sulphur compound, and apparently this is good for Ag's (this stands for agriculturist). I found it hard on my gut, but it did help but only after 3 or 4 weeks of solid use. I used the allergy research group's brand. Magnesium helps. Do some reading on Magnesium because it will help. I use magnesium aspertate, and sometimes orotate. I haven't found glucosamine to work all that well for me. I'm not sure, but I think Robert M. mentions it in a post as primarily a hunter-gatherer supplement (but I may be wrong on this). However the n-acetyl glucosamine works well for me. Go figure. I think that it may be because this form of glucosamine works primarily on the GI track. Aloe vera concentrate helps me, as do the herbal anti-fungals (garlic, GSE, etc). Free-form amino acids between meals help alot in-lieu of proteins, especially earlier in the day. Why? Don't know, don't ask.
6- Rolfing, chiropratics and massage. All are useful. The rolfing will help you to use your body more efficiently. You'll see benefits right away, but you'll need 10 sessions to see the major benefits. The massage at this point (6 sessions at least in 2 wks.) will help you relax, and get SR going more efficiently. When I'm having a recurrence, I go to the massage therapist for a session, or at least before a chiropractic session. I believe strongly in chiropractor's since keeping movement in your hips and back over the long term is enhanced by the adjustments they provide. Do some sessions immediatly since it will provide you with relief, without resorting to anti-inflam's. In addition, a chiropractor will provide a first defense to what's going on in your back. Allopaths hate chiropractor's, but they've helped me enormously, especially when an adjustment is perfomed immediatly after a massage session. To each their own...
I know this is alot and I'm probably leaving alot out, but I want you to keep in mind that you're at the worse possible time right know. Stay positive, and realize that symptoms do come and go. I've got 75% movement back in my knees, although it's presently working up my back. I honestly believe that had I continued exercising, thing would even be better at this point. I haven't found the cure, but I'm alot better than I was 2 years ago.
Cheers,
Doug Roy
In Reply to: Re: Psoriatc Arthritis - Me Too posted by Doug on September 11, 2000 at 05:48:52:
Hi,
Me again. I forgot to mention that water consumption is very important. Try to get 64 oz. or more a day of the good stuff (osmotically filtered or mineral, not tap if you can help it). In addition, if you don't already have a hobby get one. Everything in moderation, work, hobbies, food, is no longer a cliche, it should be your motto. But time spent on hobbies and family should be of equal or greater importance now that you have PA. Do not ever sweat the small stuff, not ever, and laugh a lot. Rent comedies, and spend time with friends. The power of laughter is truly amazing.
Cheers,
Doug Roy
ps the comment on my earlier post regarding coffee should be prefaced by 1 or 2 coffees a day with some sugar. Don't get the impression that a pot a day is good, it's not. Also, in my comments regarding stress, I should have mentioned something about sleep. Sleep is very important. Getting adequate and qualitative sleep is paramount at this point. When you don't get it you'll feel it the next day. Finally, buy the best quality mattress you can afford. Tempur-pedic (a swedish company) produces a memory foam mattress with an adjustable frame. It can be seen a "relax the back" stores. Try it, it helps. In addition, they produce memory foam pillows. They're also really good.
In Reply to: Re: Psoriatc Arthritis - I forgot a couple of things posted by Doug on September 11, 2000 at 08:07:37:
Thanks to all who have offered suggestions. Does anyone no a recommended 'recovery' period for fasting. Like how much time between fasts would be the minimum that would not compromise your health? Duration of the fast would be 4-5 days
In Reply to: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet posted by Greg on September 10, 2000 at 12:29:26:
Hi, Greg.
As you may know, this is a serious problem. Since you have caught it so early, there is much you can do to prevent permanent damage.
The very same things that help psoriasis will help this (see the archives). However, since this was such a sudden onset, your future is bleak unless you get REALLY serious about eliminating causes: LGS, C-RS, essential oil deficiency, bracing, stress, etc. See the glossary for any unfamiliar terms.
SR and underwater exercises are perhaps the most important thing you can do while working on the rest. NONE of this will interfere with ANY possible conventional treatment you may be getting!
All of the suggestions by BB participants have value. The elimination/provocation diet is one of them (a modification of the e/diet).
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet (Archive in psoriasis.) posted by Walt Stoll on September 12, 2000 at 09:46:39:
Hi, I am also on the E-diet (day 10)
I have RA. Day#1 was terrible...major headache , sick to my stomache...the headache lasted till day #3
Did not notice any difference in pain or swelling...
My symptoms/reactions seem to be headaches, fatigue, stomache upset..rather then RA type..is this normal...am I doing something wronge???
Debi
datts@home.com
In Reply to: Re: Psoriatc Arthritis and E/Diet (Archive in psoriasis.) posted by Debi on October 01, 2000 at 11:58:33:
Hi, Debi.
I am not an expert in the elimination diet as Bob McFerran has described it. I hope you can get from his archives what you need.
What I am talking about is the elimination/provocation diet which is different. You pick out the things you eat most commonly and totally eliminate them, one at a time, for a week or so and watch for symptoms reversal. If you get reversal keep up the same elimination for another week or so to be sure and then have some of it to see if you get a flareup. Repeat this with each thing you suspect and you will eventually come up with an elimination diet that will help. In the meantime SR is still the most important, single thing --in the long run--to resolve this problem.
Walt
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