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Restless Leg syndrome? Help

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Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by
Ryan on June 04, 2002 at 14:21:14:

For the last week I have been experiencing muscle twitching and severe leg shaking when I go to bed. I expereince this with my left leg more than my right one and more so when I lay on my left or right side. I can deal with the twitching but sometimes the shaking in my legs gets so bad that it feels like it's moving the whole bed. If I get up and walk around the shaking and twitching subsides but returns after I've been in bed for 10-15 minuits. I haven't
expereinced this shaking in any other parts of my body than my legs except for the fact that my legs get shaking so badly that it does sometimes move my whole body. My wife actually woke me up last weekend worried because she thought that I may be having a siezure because my legs were shaking so badly in my sleep. I work on a computer all day long and sit for 7 hours at a time so I also frequently expereince this during the day after I've sat for a
while. Sometimes while sitting this long my legs will start to ache until I move them and then I find myself tapping my feet or bouncing my legs up and down all day long while I'm working. I'm an active individual and have recently noticed that after I've done any jogging or workouts with my legs they shake then too, More so than they ever used to.

Are these symptoms characteristic of restless leg syndrome? This is very nerve racking. I'm a bit of a "worry wart" when it comes to health issues, so I automatically assume the worse and start thinking Parkinsons or MS could be the cause. Hopefully the worst isn't the case. I am a 28 year old male so I think something like Parkinsons would be highly unlikely, although not totally unheard of. Any information you could provide me would be appreciated! I go to my family doctor in a few days to talk to him about this but would like some input before I go. Thanks..............Ryan





Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Sally on June 04, 2002 at 20:21:43:

In Reply to: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 04, 2002 at 14:21:14:

Ryan, I used to suffer with RLS and have read much about it and your condition does not sound like it. Usually you move your legs purposely to relieve the feeling rather than the other way around. That's my experience anyway. I found taking 1000 mg of calcium-magnesium supplement at bedtime was a great help.

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 05, 2002 at 08:26:55:

In Reply to: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 04, 2002 at 14:21:14:

Hi, Ryan.

It is MY opinion that this is a common varient of RLS (restless leg symdrome).

What have you learned from the archives on this subject?

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by
Ryan on June 05, 2002 at 09:18:10:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Walt Stoll on June 05, 2002 at 08:26:55:

Thanks Walt. From reading the archives pages I've realized that some of the symptoms that I've been having are characteristic of RLS. I do have cramps or spasms in my feet, calves and sometimes thighs starting about 7 pm at night that follow through till I get up in the morning. I must mention that this also does happen during the day after I've sat for a long while. It's the involuntary shaking that I wasn't sure about relating to RLS. Everyone has told me that if your not moving your legs purposely or conciously then it's not RLS. It's not like an involuntary "jerk" or one quick burst of my leg or legs that I conciously make, it's more like a tremor where my legs shake and the only way I can make them stop is to get up out of bed. This shaking is comparable to if your were shivering and such but as I've said this is only in my legs and nowhere else in my body. I see my doctor about this in a couple days. I can live with the shaking if I have to, I just want to be sure that it's not the onset of Parkinsons disease or something serious. As I said, I'm only 28 but this is something I'll worry about until I get it checked out. I'll let you know what I find out. Does this sound like my problem could be related to something more serious like MS or Parkinsons instead of RLS? In your oppinion what other possibilitied could there be and what tests would you recommend?

Thanks Dr. Stoll,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by
Cheezi on June 05, 2002 at 14:43:33:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 05, 2002 at 09:18:10:

Either way Ryan, wellness is what you'll need to concentrate on. Nutrition has a major influence on how your body performs and how it fights off things that attack it.

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 06, 2002 at 08:04:17:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 05, 2002 at 09:18:10:

Ryan,

"When you hear hoofbeats in KY you don't look for zebras." Of course, lots of physicians have forgotten that advice they got in medical school. After all, that is where the money is!

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by
Missy on June 06, 2002 at 22:50:26:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 05, 2002 at 09:18:10:

Hi there! i know someone with RLS. it can be a bothersome. she had the same symptoms as you. u may try to ask ur doctor about ReQuip--antiparkinson medication. u may have to try it out to see what dose works for u. ur doc should explain how and when its taken. u should ask for a book/brochure/pamphlet about RLS--more information u can read that the doc may miss. good luck...

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes?

Posted by RYAN on June 11, 2002 at 09:55:13:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 05, 2002 at 09:18:10:


UPDATE: Dr. Stoll, I went to the doctor regarding my possible restless leg syndrome and he was skeptical on diagnosing me with RLS as he says that it rarely occurs in people my age and is mostly seen in people over 50. He did a complete blood work up which included CBC, Thyroid, Liver enzymes, cholesterol etc.,. All of the tests came back in the normal range. He currently has put me on 1000 mg Calcium & 1000 mg Magnesium and told me to try that for 10 days and that if I wasn't any better to return and he'd send me for a EEG to check further into it.

I noticed this in the last few days, about the same time every morning around 5 am I wake up very shakey. Not just in the legs but hands too. I usually remain shakey until after I eat breakfast and then I'm usually fine until the next morning when it starts again. I've also noticed within the last two weeks an occasional lack of focus in my right left eye. If I blink a few times usually it will clear it up. I just went to the eye dr. in FEB. so I don't know if it's an actual vision problem or not.

I'm now wondering if all of this could possibly related to a blood sugar issue, namely Diabetes. My Grandmother and great Grandmother on both sides of my family are diabetic and I know it can be heriditary. Could these symptoms be related to this? How do I go about having this checked? Would the Dr. have checked for this when he did blood work?
Please advise.

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes?

Posted by Ryan on June 11, 2002 at 23:01:44:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? posted by RYAN on June 11, 2002 at 09:55:13:

By the way, the Cal/Mag has helped a bit. Now I only have the leg tremors a few nights a week at most as apposed to 6 or 7 nights a week. I also realize that RLS can move into the hands so this is still probaby the most likely diagnosis.

Thanks Again

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 12, 2002 at 08:31:07:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? posted by RYAN on June 11, 2002 at 09:55:13:

Hi, Ryan.

I wonder where your doc got his information about RLS being more common over the age of 50? MY guess is that, if you WERE over the age of 50 he would have said it is more common under the age of 50. Monopolies can get away with anything. It is MUCH more common UNDER the age of 50.

Unfortunately most docs do not know how to check for diabetes and probably your blood test was done on a fasting specimen--the least likely way to find early diabetes. See the diabetes archives for the correct test. The WHO and the CDC both have urged docs to test accurately for diabetes and still they neglect to do so. So much for the monopoly!

Since your doc does not have a better suggestion, MY suggestion would be to treat this AS RLS and see what happens.

Let us know what you learn and how you do.

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Ryan on June 12, 2002 at 19:23:20:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 12, 2002 at 08:31:07:

Dr. Stoll, I used my grandmothers blood sugar tester and came out with a reading of 94. This was after a 12 hour fasting test. I then tested my blood sugar 2 hours after I had eaten and came out with a reading of 92. This leads me to believe that I can rule out diabetes.

I have one more possiblity that this could be and I want to know what you think. I had neglected to mention that on top of the occasional involuntary shaking of the leg or legs I have been experiencing a weird sort of vibrating sensation within my leg that feels sort of like electrical current that goes from my upper quad to the very bottom of my foot. I decided to try something new this afternoon and found that if I am lying down or sitting and I start feeling this sensation, if I change the position that I am lying or sitting in the sensation and or shaking will subside until I resume that position again (usually happens when I lay on either side). This happens mainly in my left leg. In your professional oppinion could I be suffering from Sciatica? I had thought about this before when all this first started but I was under the impression that Sciatica only happens in one leg and not both. While this mainly happens in my left leg it has occured in my right leg also just no quite as frequenltly as my left.

I have been a weight lifter for the passed 4 years so it is very possible that I have just pinched a nerve or developed Sciatica from that as I did hurt my back about a month and a half ago lifting (pain was just in my lower back) and did not go to the doctor. Could this be the answer? Please advise.

Thanks Dr. Stoll,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Ryan on June 12, 2002 at 20:03:41:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 12, 2002 at 08:31:07:

Walt, one more thing. I was researching your archives and came acrossed the following post:

Dave,

This is, to me, a fascinating little syndrome. It seems to vary in degree of severity from one person to another--some experience it only at night; others, like Bill, seem to experience symptoms at almost any time. I can see how the latter folks would have to learn to "tune it out" and often might not even be consciously aware it was happening. It only happens to my husband when he's trying to fall asleep, and it's hard for either one of us to ignore.

***"Now, here's what really intrigues me, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how it correlates with your comments on how chiropractic may help: my husband can lie in bed in a relaxed state for a long time (when reading, for example), and his leg will be perfectly still, but the INSTANT he rolls over with the intention of falling asleep, the leg starts to vibrate. Usually, the shaking will subside after a time, allowing him to fall asleep. Sometimes, it will recur during the night."***

Are there special chemical reactions going on in his brain when he is sleeping--or trying to sleep--that trigger the symptoms? The only other time I've noticed him having restless leg symptoms is when he's also having brain symptoms, alongwith which he experiences extreme muscle tension throughout his body (literally becoming 2-3 inches shorter in height). At such times, his leg may shake so badly that he can barely stand or walk. So I'm back again to thinking there's a link between the RLS and something going on in his brain.

He has never tried chiropractic so I don't know whether it would help him or not. Do subluxations, etc, affect brain function?
Vicki

I'm specifically refering to the sentences highlighted with asterisks and quote marks above. These are the very same symptoms I have been experiencing. I tried to contact her to find out what they ended up doing to resolve her husbands condition or what her husbands final diagnosis ended up being but her email address no longer exhists.
Do you know? Getting in contact with her could have explained everything for me and put an end to my worry.

Thanks,

Ryan


Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 13, 2002 at 10:30:41:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Ryan on June 12, 2002 at 19:23:20:

Thanks, Ryan.

I agree with the diabetes conclusion. All this does is heighten the possibility of RLS being the diagnosis.

This would be a very atypical sciatica and a very typical RLS.

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Ryan on June 18, 2002 at 09:38:27:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 13, 2002 at 10:30:41:

Dr. Stoll, I had heard many mentions in the RLS archives about trying a chiropractor to relieve symptoms of RLS or other nerve problems. After hearing so many recommendations to try this I visited a Chiropractor yesterday afternoon. After sitting down and taking my medical history she did usual tests to check range of motion, nerve sensation, etc., and everything was normal. The chiropractor then did X-Rays of my back (front and side views). The x-ray from the side was normal but the x-ray from the front showed an abnormality in my spine. The chiropractor says that while most people have (5) vertibrae, I have a partial 6th vertibrae that tried to develope at the very bottom near my pelvis. One side of the vertibrae is developed and the other side is still attached to my pelvic bone causing a prime area for a nerve to fall into and be pinched (the side fused to my pelvis). This abnormality is also causing my spinal column to be curved in sort of a "zig zag" fashion from right to left where it should be fairly straight from the front view.

The chiropractor says that this is what has been causing my frequent lower back pain and tenderness. I asked her if this could cause my legs to shake (my main concern) and she said that she couldn't say for sure but it definately could cause my leg to cramp and have muscle spasms (this doesn't at all explain while I have the cramping and shaking in both legs at times). The chiropractor then devised a treatment program for me and said that she wanted to treat me 3 times a week for two weeks and then if there was no improvement she would advise that I should seek eslwhere for an answer to my symptoms.

In your professional oppinion would these chiropractic visits be a total waste of time or should I give it the two week treatment and see what happens?

My next step if this doesn't work will be to see a nueroligist as almost everyone that I have talked to from RLS websites and such have said that a nueroligist is familiar with RLS and other disorders and can give me a definitive diagnosis and put a final end to all of my concerns. Do you know if you have to have a referal to see a nueroligist? Should I just proceed to the nueroligist and skip the chiropractic treatment? What do you think?

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 19, 2002 at 07:47:30:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Ryan on June 18, 2002 at 09:38:27:

Hi, Ryan.

I would try the 2 week Chiropractic approach although I do not think this will help much or for long. At least it will not be destructive whereas the neurologist recommendations are. likely to be so.

I deny that a conventional neurologist is likley to be knowledgable about the causes of RLS. This type of practitioner is most likely to give you a tranquilizer for symptoms rather than resolving the causes.

Let us know what happens.

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome and Chiropractic treatment? (Archive in RLS.)

Posted by Ryan on June 19, 2002 at 09:26:08:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or possibly diabetes? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 19, 2002 at 07:47:30:

Dr. Stoll, thanks for the reply. First, I commend you on your commitment to answering all of the questions on this board. I can't imagine keeping up with all of the questions that surface on this board.

I will go ahead and try the two week Chiropractic treatment. I've only had one treatment and although I may be jumping the gun have not noticed any difference. If anything, she may have made it a bit worse. I went in there with no back pain and came out with it hurting for the next two days and I would say that my leg cramping, twitches, and tremors have gotten a bit worse. I even am having unusual twitching throughout my entire body, arm, neck, hands, back, etc., mainly any time that I lay down to go to sleep but am know having this occur at work quite often also. I have two more treatments this week so I'll see how things go.

I have heard that Neurologists are famous for just tranquilizing the patient so they get a decent night sleep as you have suggested. Although I have to admit that a tranquilizer would do me alot of good right now. I haven't really slept in over two weeks and walk around half of the day "zombified" feeling sick to my stomach from lack of sleep. By the time I get home from work I'm fully drained and don't feel like doing anything else. I can't find anything "over the counter" that I can take to help me sleep as I am currently taking 10 mg of Prinivil for Hypertension and the people at the pharmacy suggested that I not take anything with the Prinivil.

Anyway, I am told that the main reason for others with RLS suggesting that I seek out a good neurologist is to get a definitive diagnosis and rule out other possible causes such as MS and such. I believe that while they may not no what causes RLS, as nobody really does from what I'm reading, they can rule out other conditions. I am told that there is no one test or any clinical test for that matter that will specifically lead to a diagnosis of RLS and that it can only be diagnosed after specifically testing for similar diseases such as MS, tumor...etc., using MRI and such.

I think that after two weeks if I haven't improved any, for my own sanity I will try to see a neurologist just to rule out any more serious conditions and at least ease my mind that there is nothing else wrong.

I'll let you know how things come out.

Thanks Again,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Ryab on June 24, 2002 at 09:56:59:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome and Chiropractic treatment? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Ryan on June 19, 2002 at 09:26:08:

Walt, Sorry to bother you again but I have another question. I have been through a week and a half of Chiropractic treatment with no improvement being made to my night time RLS symptoms as you suggested would probably be the case. I do have to say though that except for the occasional leg twitch or crawling feeling up my leg or legs during the day, I haven't experienced any shaking during the day.

My question is due to an episode that took place this morning. I have already described my symptoms to you such as waking up in the middle of the night with my legs shaking involunarily when I turn on my side, the cramping and twitching and as weird as this may sound I'm kinda getting used to dealing with that but his morning was a bit different. My legs were doing the usual shaking or quivering while I was on my side so I rolled onto my back which usually makes the shaking subside. Instead when I rolled onto my back my whole body from my legs to my shoulders started shaking. I then got out of bed and the whole episode halted.

Is the entire body shaking until you get up still a characteristic of RLS or PLMD?

I have read many articles on SR and rolfing and heard that this will relieve symptoms of RLS. I am all for trying these two approaches but I am wondering if I should have an MRI or EMG to rule out other more serious conditions before I do this. What is your oppinion? My physician had instructed me to return in two weeks if my condition didn't improve from taking the Cal/Mag supplement and I haven't improved any. It has been over two weeks and there has been no change in my symptoms. In your professional oppinion what should my next step be?

1)Should I just treat my condition as RLS/PLMD and learn SR
or try Rolfing or should I return to my physician for an
MRI or EMG to rule out any possible more serious
conditions first?

I've done everything I can think of to try to convince myself that my condition is simply RLS and to deal with it as needed and quit podering the other possible more serious diagnosis's but I am not having any luck. I keep getting mixed advise from RLS websites and RLS "experts".

Some RLS/PLMD experts online will tell me that yes they believe that I do have the condition from what I describe, but then I can send the very same exact email describing my symptoms to another RLS expert and they will flat out say "No, your symptoms could not possibly be RLS and you need to seek further tests as your condition could be serious". This is very frustrating to say the very least and very hard to convince yourself that its just RLS and that you will be fine and live through it.

Please advise?

Thanks Again,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 09:57:13:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome and Chiropractic treatment? (Archive in RLS.) posted by Ryan on June 19, 2002 at 09:26:08:

Walt, Sorry to bother you again but I have another question. I have been through a week and a half of Chiropractic treatment with no improvement being made to my night time RLS symptoms as you suggested would probably be the case. I do have to say though that except for the occasional leg twitch or crawling feeling up my leg or legs during the day, I haven't experienced any shaking during the day.

My question is due to an episode that took place this morning. I have already described my symptoms to you such as waking up in the middle of the night with my legs shaking involunarily when I turn on my side, the cramping and twitching and as weird as this may sound I'm kinda getting used to dealing with that but his morning was a bit different. My legs were doing the usual shaking or quivering while I was on my side so I rolled onto my back which usually makes the shaking subside. Instead when I rolled onto my back my whole body from my legs to my shoulders started shaking. I then got out of bed and the whole episode halted.

Is the entire body shaking until you get up still a characteristic of RLS or PLMD?

I have read many articles on SR and rolfing and heard that this will relieve symptoms of RLS. I am all for trying these two approaches but I am wondering if I should have an MRI or EMG to rule out other more serious conditions before I do this. What is your oppinion? My physician had instructed me to return in two weeks if my condition didn't improve from taking the Cal/Mag supplement and I haven't improved any. It has been over two weeks and there has been no change in my symptoms. In your professional oppinion what should my next step be?

1)Should I just treat my condition as RLS/PLMD and learn SR
or try Rolfing or should I return to my physician for an
MRI or EMG to rule out any possible more serious
conditions first?

I've done everything I can think of to try to convince myself that my condition is simply RLS and to deal with it as needed and quit podering the other possible more serious diagnosis's but I am not having any luck. I keep getting mixed advise from RLS websites and RLS "experts".

Some RLS/PLMD experts online will tell me that yes they believe that I do have the condition from what I describe, but then I can send the very same exact email describing my symptoms to another RLS expert and they will flat out say "No, your symptoms could not possibly be RLS and you need to seek further tests as your condition could be serious". This is very frustrating to say the very least and very hard to convince yourself that its just RLS and that you will be fine and live through it.

Please advise?

Thanks Again,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 10:07:55:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 09:57:13:

Walt, one more question I forgot to ask. I have had several suggestions to visit a "Sleep Clinic" since my shaking only occurs at night. This way the "shaking" can be observed by a licensed physician.

Is this something that you would recommend?

I don't know if this has any relivance at all to my condition but over the past few years I have experienced several "anxiety attacks" where my heart races, heavily elevated blood pressure, skipped heart beats and I shake (tremor) severely. The shaking that I experience at night in my legs is almost identical to the shaking/tremor I experience during these panic attacks. I just had one of these "anxiety attacks" on my first visit to the chiropractor.

Could there be any relation to my RLS and anxiety attacks?

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 10:08:34:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 09:57:13:

Walt, one more question I forgot to ask. I have had several suggestions to visit a "Sleep Clinic" since my shaking only occurs at night. This way the "shaking" can be observed by a licensed physician.

Is this something that you would recommend?

I don't know if this has any relivance at all to my condition but over the past few years I have experienced several "anxiety attacks" where my heart races, heavily elevated blood pressure, skipped heart beats and I shake (tremor) severely. The shaking that I experience at night in my legs is almost identical to the shaking/tremor I experience during these panic attacks. I just had one of these "anxiety attacks" on my first visit to the chiropractor.

Could there be any relation to my RLS and anxiety attacks?

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 11:53:05:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 10:08:34:

Sorry about the repeated multiple posts. My computer was acting up and the submit button got stuck.

Thanks,

Ryan

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 11:58:53:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 10:08:34:

Walt, another question I meant to ask. Several people have suggested that my involuntary shaking is more symptomatic of night/waking siezures. My question to you is, if I am having siezures when I wake up that are causing me to shake involuntarily, would I be able to make them stop by getting up out of bed?

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD (Archive.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 25, 2002 at 08:31:49:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryab on June 24, 2002 at 09:56:59:

Hi, Ryab(?)

Ryan, this kind of testing never hurt anyone---only if one acts on the results without thinking.

RLS will cause all the symptoms you are experiencing if it is severe enough and the causes ignored long enough.

Do the testing and let us know what you learn BEFORE you follow any therapeutic program based upon those results.

In the end, YOU are going to have to be convinced of the diagnosis before you will avail yourself of the solutions.

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 25, 2002 at 08:33:00:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 10:07:55:

Of course, Ryan.

Have you read the RLS archives?

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 25, 2002 at 09:10:02:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD posted by Ryan on June 24, 2002 at 11:58:53:

Perhaps, Ryan.

However since the causes of your symptoms are the same, regardless of what it is named, the actual approach to cure will vary little.

Of course, we allopaths are particularly good at coming up with fancy names for stuff as though the name gives us power over it. Of course, the shamans used that ploy. The AMA would never admit that is why we have names for everything. Sigh!

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD (Archive.)

Posted by Ryan on June 25, 2002 at 09:52:55:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll on June 25, 2002 at 08:31:49:

Walt,

Thanks for the advise. I went ahead and made an appointment with my Family Doctor. He's on vacation...lol and he can't get me in until next Wednesday, July 3rd. I'm going to ask him to refer me to a neurologist that is knowledgable about RLS and who will send me for the needed testing to rule out other more serious conditions. Our hospital here just got a new "Sleep Disorder" wing in the last year also, so I may ask to be evaluated there as the only way that they are going to be able to observe this "shaking" is if I fall asleep first. My family doc probably won't like this much as from my experience they tend to get a little aggrivated when you ask to be refered to someone else they themselves suggesting it.

While my Chiropractor did wonders for my lower back during the first week, I have experienced absolutely no change during the second week and she has been unable to resolve anything with the shaking of the legs. She informed me at my appointment yesterday that she could refer me to a specialist "IF" I have no improvement with chiropractic treatment by next weekend (funny first she said she'd refer me elsewhere if I showed no improvement within two weeks or by June 28th, now after no improvement she's bumped it up to three...weeks or July 5th....$$$) Imagine that!!!

Anyway, one more question. (1) Is there any particular reason that you can think of why, if I contain my sleeping to just sleeping on my back or stomach I will experience absolutely no involuntary shaking of the legs, but the minuit that I turn on my right or left side to sleep, the shaking begins? This is puzzling to me.

**Note: I still experience the involuntary jerking of the legs, cramping and odd feelings in my feet and calves regardless of what position that I sleep in I just only experience the involuntary shaking if I sleep on one side or the other.**

I did read in the RLS archives one other posting from a wife back in 1998 who's husband experienced the absolute same symptoms (legs shaking when laying on his side, cramps, etc.,). She was asking you what you thought it could be but the postings kind of just dropped off and she posted no "Positive" diagnosis. The subject just kind of dropped off and was never brought back up by her again. I've tried to email her just to compare symptoms but have had no luck making contact with her.

I'll have the Neurologist give perform the testing that they want to do, MRI, etc., and I'll consult you with the results before acting on any theraputic program as you have suggested.

Thanks Again and you've been a great help.

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD (Archive.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 26, 2002 at 08:12:02:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome or PLMD (Archive.) posted by Ryan on June 25, 2002 at 09:52:55:

Hi, Ryan.

This is an example of: "To a hammer, everything looks line a nail!"

A neurologist is the last specialist I would go to for RLS.

There is even a chance that he will come up with something that fits his specialty (which RLS is not) and you will be off and running for a long term treatment that has nothing to do with your condition.

Good luck. The same thing applies: Most tests cannot hurt you. It is what the doctor recommends, on the basis of those results that CAN.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 10:35:40:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on June 05, 2002 at 09:18:10:

Dr. Stoll,

Well, I finally visited my Primary Care doc for a follow-up since he suggested the Cal/Mag supplements over a month ago.
Since their has been no major improvement in my symptoms as well as the fact that I've developed some additional symptoms that I didnt' originally have, he is sending me to a neurologist on Thursday, July 11th. He abosulutely refuses to admit that I could be suffering from RLS. He says that all of my symptoms combined with my "newly developed symptoms" vary to much to be a sleep disorder. He says he'll let the neurologist sort all of my symptoms out. I could tell from the look on the dr's face when I was in there that he was stumped and concerned.

I have to say that since taking the supplements for this long and having added some vitamin B to my daily regimine that I have had 4 nights this month with no involuntary tremor during sleep, although the cramping has remained. On the downside, after going three days in a row with no night tremor the 4th night I woke up not only with my legs shaking, but also my arms and hands as well. I managed to get them to stop when I finally got out of bed.

The cramping that I was experiencing mainly in my calves has spread. Now I cramp and ache in my shoulders, forarms, biceps, chest and hands. I've also began to experience involuntary muscle twitches that change to different places all over my body. Some days I have no twitching and other days the twitching occurs more often. I know that I haven't experienced any loss in muscle strength as I work out 4 days per week with two days of cardio and I keep a journal of my lifts. The lifts remain progressive to this date. I have lost no body weight or muscle mass.

My primary care doc says that he thinks that all of my symptoms could be related such as the sporadic blurring of my left eye, muscle twitching, aching, hands and feet tingling, occasional burning sensation that varies throught different areas of my body, general tiredness (not muscle fatigue but just drained), weird periodic internal vibrating sensation in my legs, sporadic dizzyness and spinning feeling. Primary care doc says that the neurologist will be much better as sorting all of this out and "pinpointing" an actual cause.

Hopefully the neurologist will give me some answers.

Just wanted to keep you posted. I'll let you know how the Neurologist appt. goes.

Thanks Again for Listening,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 12:40:05:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 10:35:40:

Hi Ryan,

Some of your symptoms sound a lot like the ones I had several years ago -- cramping, shaking, fatigue, and internal vibration, along with other weird stuff.

Perhaps it is fortunate that I didn't have money to go visit doctors, and I had to figure out for myself (mostly through trial and error) what was going on. I finally figured out that my nervous system was way overloaded.

The first really helpful thing I did was stop trying to do any strengthening exercises, because it made my symptoms worse. (Tight muscles increase the firing of the nerves and increase the load on the nervous system).

The second really helpful thing I did was start a stretching program. Stretching relaxes muscles and decreases the load on the nervous system. This helped me immensely!!! My stretching practice is 15 - 30 minutes a day, every day without fail. It is slow, gradual stretching. I started with the worst areas and gradually progressed to full-body stretching. As flexibility increases, the stretching takes less time. It takes about a year to see dramatic results from a program like this. After 15 months of daily stretching, my symptoms had decreased dramatically and I felt like I had a new body.

The third really helpful thing I did was find this bulletin board and start the Three-Legged Stool wellness program. The Skilled Relaxation twice a day continues to decrease the load on my nervous system, the Whole Foods diet brought further relaxation and a feeling of well-being, and the Aerobics Exercise (I do rebounding) loosens up any tight area that is remaining. What a great feeling it is to no longer feel like something is terribly wrong with me -- I no longer feel like a sick person. I am a new person now.

As a Certified Massage Therapist, I can tell immediately when someone stops working out at the gym (doing strengthening exercises) and switches to aerobic or cardio-vascular exercise. Their whole body becomes softer and more pliable. Since you are working out at a gym 4 days a week, this is the first thing that I am suspicious of as being a cause or partial cause of your condition. It's not ultimately healthy to have a hard or tight body, because it restricts fluid flow (blood, lymph etc.) and holds toxins in the body. It also restricts energy flow. Plus, it burdens the nervous system.

I have one client who had similar muscular tightness, spasms, and fatigue. She took my advice and has been stretching for a year (plus worked with a chiropractor, started nutritional therapy, and did psychotherapy) and she is vastly improved. Next she will begin Walt's Three-Legged Stool and I know that will help her more.

I hope my experience can be of help to you.

Best wishes,
Happygal Jan (Certified Massage Therapist)



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? One more thought .....

Posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 14:20:40:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 10:35:40:

Hi again Ryan,

I had one more thought for you. Some people have nervous systems that are more sensitive than others. That is the case with me.

You might look at the book, The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine Aron and see if it applies to you.

I followed much of her advice and it helped a lot, too.

Regards,
Happygal Jan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:42:07:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 12:40:05:

Happygal,

Thanks for the post. I agree that some of my symptoms could be aggrivated by working out. The thing is, that as soon as the involuntary shaking started I stopped working my legs out for about 2-3 weeks, period, except for my cardio. I only stopped the lower body excersises because that is where I started experiencing most of my symptoms. Not only did the wierd symptoms in my lower body persist, I began to develope more. I then went to see a Chiropractor that instead of twisting and popping me stretched my back muscles, performed heat, message, ultrasound therapy and refered me to a professional massusse. I have been to a professional message therapist regularly since the symptoms first occured per the advise of others on this board. The symptoms still persist. I have also begun SR techniques and meditation. This helps great, unless I'm having an anxiety attack in which case is usless. I already use a "whole food" diet and I am an extreme "health nut" and realize that proper nutrition is the main ingredient in a healthy body. I always perform stretching before and after I lift. During this period of layoff and treatment, I kept noticing more and more symptoms including the sporadic blurring of my left eye which is one symptom that I don't think could be related to working out. It is very possible that some of the symptoms could be related to a totally different cause, but it is also very likely that all of the symptoms chain together to represent one condition as they all came about around the same period.

I do have to say that working out hasn't seem to worsen my symptoms. If anything I twitch and cramp less after working out and the relief usually carries over until the next day. Also, I've noticed that if I get out and walk, perform cardio and stay active that my legs won't cramp nearly as badly that evening.

I intend to keep performing the stretching, meditation, "light workouts", etc., but am going to go ahead and see the neurologist to rule out other possible causes. I probably wouldn't bother but since I have good insurance, my deductable is already met due to it being very low and that's what it's there for....ha...I might as well. I hope the resolution is as simple as continuing a reduced stress lifestyle.

Thanks for the advise and I'll keep everyone posted!

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:46:39:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:42:07:

By the way....my doctor did point out that alot of my symptoms (but not all) could be related to stress or something totally benign. He just thought I should see a neurologist to be sure.

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? One more thought .....

Posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:56:45:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? One more thought ..... posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 14:20:40:

I'll look into that book. It "is" very possible that I have an exteremely sensitive nervous system. I used to be a very shy person who always kept to myself. I could be thrown into an anxiety attack in a snap. The anxiety attacks would cause me to shake uncontrollably, teeth to chatter, impair my speech, etc.,. Sort of like an old scooby doo episode...LOL. Anyway, my dad always wanted to take me to a doctor for it as he said that having anxiety attacks due to simple daily stress was just not right. The smallest thing could set me off. To this day I still get this way occasionally when I get highly stressed and very nervous. I've also had migraine headaches since I was 8 years old that would spur from being nervous.

Thanks Again,

Ryan

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Joanie on July 10, 2002 at 15:44:29:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:42:07:

Ryan, have you ever tried hot baths? This works really well to help calm my legs down.

Namaste`

Joanie

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? More.....

Posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 18:12:06:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:42:07:

Hi Ryan,

When I had all those symptoms, massage -- even frequent massage -- didn't help me a bit either. Pretty discouraging for a massage therapist, huh? Chiropractic didn't help either. Neither did hot baths. I tried everything. My nervous system was so tight, NOTHING helped ..... until I started doing daily stretching. Daily stretching made it possible for me to take control of my ENTIRE body. It relaxed all the muscles and reduced the load on the nervous system.

I agree, see a specialist if it makes you feel more reassured. In the meantime, it's great for you to continue doing all the wellness stuff, religiously. You need to find out what works for you.

Best wishes,
Happygal



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? A final thought.....

Posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 18:54:24:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? More..... posted by Happygal on July 10, 2002 at 18:12:06:

Ryan,

The reason why working out makes you feel temporarily good is because in the short term, it stimulates a little blood flow to the muscles. In the long term, it creates tight, hard muscles which may be adding to your problem.

You might try a three-week trial: no weights, only gentle stretching for at least 1/2 hour. If it doesn't help you slightly, I will stand corrected.

Regards, Happygal Jan

Follow Ups:


Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 11, 2002 at 08:29:15:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 10, 2002 at 14:46:39:

Ryan,

Listen to Happygal.

So long as you do not immediately DO whatever the neurologist says, you cannot be harmed by his tests and "diagnosis". You know, he cannot really afford to admit that he does not have a fancy name for what you have. Your doc might not send any more referrals to him if he did that.

Any "calcium/magnesium supplement" your doc might have prescribed had about a zero chance of helping RLS.

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Ryan on July 11, 2002 at 09:29:55:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Walt Stoll on July 11, 2002 at 08:29:15:

Walt,

Of coarse if something "major" is the diagnosis I would definately seek a second oppinion from another phsician around here and consult you first before going through with any treatment.

As far as being referred to a neurologist, it was my GP's idea but he was actually going to send me to another guy. I specified that I wanted to see the neurologist that I went to for my migrains 20 years ago as he has an excellent reputation around here and is very knowledgable in sleep disorders such as Apnea, RLS, PLMD, Narcolepsy, etc., I'm keeping my fingers crossed that RLS or PLMD will be the worst thing that he'll suggest as a diagnosis. We'll see what happens though.

Most of the things that "Happygal" suggested, which I might add is very good advice, aside from the book, I had already tried on my own such as not working out for 2-3 weeks, chiropractic, message therapy, started meditation, trying SR and I already follow a "whole foods" diet. I ingest no caffiene, I have only drank bottled water and skim milk for the last 5 years. All of this plus I've spent over $1000 in the last month between message, supplements and chiropractic treatment to no avail.

I've already tried the workout layoff and experienced no relief so far. I've had a few nights without the tremor but experienced additional "bothering" symptoms. Simply put, even though I've had some nights without tremor I still haven't rested any better due to the extreme aching in other areas of my body. I would be open to try it again here shortly if nothing comes of this soon.

I'll keep you all posted!

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 12, 2002 at 07:25:50:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 11, 2002 at 09:29:55:

Thanks, Ryan.

In MY experience, massage will not resolve RLS, even temporarily, with less that 3 times a week for 2 handrunning weeks. SR will not show its results until practicing it correctly for YOU and doing it for at least 3-6 months. Full benefits may not be for a year but then they will be permanent.

Let us know what you learn.

Walt



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Ryan on July 12, 2002 at 11:37:40:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Walt Stoll on July 12, 2002 at 07:25:50:

Walt,
I went to the neurologist yesterday afternoon. He wants to send me for an EEG to rule out a siezure disorder causing my night/morning tremors. I don't see what an EEG is going to tell because so far I only have these tremors during sleep and my EEG is scheduled on Monday at 10:00 am.

(1) Do you know if it is possible for someone to have seizures only when sleeping or waking?

(2) If it were seizures causing the tremor, would that account for my aching and cramping muscles throughout the day and night, twitching, night sweats, etc.,?

(3) Would seizures that cause tremor cause you to have extreme dizzy spells and vertigo even when not experiencing any tremor?

I asked about PLMD (periodic limb movement disorder). He stated that I would have to be physically jerking my limb or moving it to be diagnosed with this and that tremor a symptom of PLMD or RLS.

He said that from this initial visit it doesn't appear that I have some deathly illness but that he would like to evaluate some of my symptoms one step at a time to try to find a cause of each symptom rather than jump in to $10,000 worth of tests and attack every symptom at the same time. He stated that this way we may find an answer and avoid un-needed testing and possibly save money. This method sounds like it is going to take forever but I guess if that's what it takes...so be it.

My EEG is Monday but my Neurologist can't get me back in until July 29th when I can finally get the results of the EEG.

As far as my sporadic blurring vision in one eye, he says that I would have to go totally blind in one or both eyes for a period or time and have my vision spontaniously reappear for no good reason in order for him to link the blurring vision to something neurological and since I haven't went "totally blind" and have my vision re-appear he would have to say that the problem is more eye related then neurological. He wanted me to contact me eye doctor about the problem. I did so this morning, and I see the eye doctor this afternoon.

Thanks,

Ryan



Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 13, 2002 at 10:03:56:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Leg syndrome? Help posted by Ryan on July 12, 2002 at 11:37:40:

Hi, Ryan.

In order:
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. No.

Hope this helps. I will be interested in hearing from your ophthalmologist, too.

Walt

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