Restless Legs historical posts March 1998

Re: Restless Legs Syndrome

Posted by Judy Ann Ethridge on March 17, 1998 at 19:15:47:


I have recently been diagnosed with Restless Leg Syndrome and been given a RX by a Neurologist of Simemet., low dose.
I have the same symptoms over my body and all test and diagnostic procedures were negative. Please comment.


restless leg syndrome

Posted by Bill on March 17, 1998 at 20:30:49:

Hi Dad,

As you probably know, I have had "restless leg syndrome" pretty much all my life. My legs are long and strong, and I have always attributed that to keeping the muscles moving almost all the time :) But...

You've mentioned on the BB that this can indicate a magnesium deficiency. I'm about to place an order with metagenics and thought I'd pick up some oral magnesium to see if it makes a difference. I wonder if you could tell me which kind to get, how much to take, and how long before I should consider doing IV magnesium?

I get roughly 500-1000 mg of magnesium (glycinate, citrate) in the multigenics vitamin/mineral supplement I take, but that is inconsistent since some days I take none and others I take six pills. I wonder if I consistently took six if that would be enough...

One last question - the label says to take multigenics with meals "or as directed by physician". Do you think it is harmful or less effective to take the vitamins away from a meal? I have been eating only one-two meals per day for some time now (breakfast is either nothing or a bagel and OJ).

I am doing a trick and putting March 16, 1998 in the text here so you will see this post quicker (smile)

Thanks, and Love,
Bill


Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 17, 1998 at 21:21:08:

In Reply to: restless leg syndrome posted by Bill on March 17, 1998 at 20:30:49:

Hiya Bill,
I have had a few patients with restless leg syndrome and all of them have indicated improvement after adjustments. I have NO real understanding of the condition or by what mechanism that chiroprctic care has an effect but I thought I would throw that little tidbit in. All of these patients came with other complaints but noted a change in RLS especially in the night. Hope that is of some help to you.




Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Patricia Worth on March 17, 1998 at 22:20:13:

In Reply to: restless leg syndrome posted by Bill on March 17, 1998 at 20:30:49:

Working for a Chiropractor and being very familiar with Metagenics, I highly recommend that you check out Douglas Laboratories... they have great supplements at much less the cost. I have been using Metagenics Cal-apitit(spelling?) for the microcrystalline calcium, that
Metagenics won a court suit over being able to say that this product does indeed create bone mass i.e osteoarthritis
sufferers. I have found that Douglas Labs carries the same
supplement at a much reduced price. Check them out..
They are out of Pittsburg PA.


Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Vicki on March 18, 1998 at 08:51:38:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 17, 1998 at 21:21:08:

Just a couple of thoughts from a layperson, based on observation of my husband's restless leg condition: there is extreme muscle tension and perhaps some sciatic nerve involvement as well on the affected side of his body (the right side, in his case). Occasionally, he also experiences pain in his right lower back. Slow, deep massage of the muscles from just above the waist all the way to the ankle, as soon as the shaking starts, helps him more than any of the other "remedies" we've tried (aspirin, folic acid, tyrosine, eliminating caffeine, etc.). Haven't yet tried large amounts of magnesium (he takes 500 mg per day) but plan to start soon.



Re: Restless Leg Syndrome

Posted by penny spencer on March 18, 1998 at 11:40:45:

Vicki,
Maybe someone needs to enlighten me on the folic acid or anything my husband can take. We have been married for 34 years, he is currently 57 and he has had the restless leg syndrome since we were married. He not only moves his leg but his arm as well. He only moves his left side and it usually can go on for hours. I finally got a neurologist I see for migraines to check him out. I told him you can wake him up in the middle of the night he will talk to you and
go back to sleep and continue to shake. The neurologist put him on Klonopin which helped immensely but he built up a tolerance after 4 years and now we are back to square one. It absolutely drives me wild and I usually end up in the spare bed. He shakes sometimes so violently the bed moves.
His family practice put him on Neurontin. What a joke!
I was glad to find out other people suffer from this. Does anyone have anyhelp - he has a doctor appointment tomorrow and I would like to be able to give the doctor a different point of view. Thanks




Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 18, 1998 at 13:26:10:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 18, 1998 at 08:51:38:

Based on things you describe, and knowing that chronic muscle tension can many times be a result of "spinal abberations"/manipulable lesions/subluxation(whatever you want to call it), I would say that correcting what is causing the muscle spams would be your answer. Maybe it lies in supplements or maybe it lies in correcting the the spinal problem. Definetly food for thought and a simple explanation for my having such success with these patients. Thanks.


Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Dad on March 18, 1998 at 14:14:48:

In Reply to: restless leg syndrome posted by Bill on March 17, 1998 at 20:30:49:

Dear Bill,

Pretty tricky with that date thing. It is sort of like the congress writing laws that only THEY can understand (especially tax laws). Then they use all the loopholes & the rest of us are left with paying $3000 for a toilet (grin). You can tell it must be tax time.

Try to find magnesium orotate, aspartate, or glycinate by itself. Then take at least 2 grams of the magnesium daily (in addition to what you have been getting in the Multigenics) (this IS best taken with meals--I am not sure it is so important for the Multigenics [except for the minerals contained therein]).

Remember your chemistry. For example, the bottle may say 1000 milligram tablets. However, only a % of that tablet is magnesium, the rest is aspartate--or whatever. You have to know the atomic weight of each element and the actual formula of the molecule to figure out how much actual magnesium you are getting in that tablet. What you need (daily) is at least 2000 milligrams of magnesium. After trying this much for a month or so, see if you can notice any difference. It could take as long as a year for the full benefits.

You might even have to take digestive enzymes with this stuff to be sure you are absorbing enough to make a difference. Knowing what I know about you I dont' think so.

If you want to know sooner, you would have to do the injectable magnesium about 3 times a week for 2 weeks (at least 2 grams at a time given over about a 5 minute push).
Again, I am talking about elememtal magnesium by weight, not the weight of the molecule.

Love, Dad





Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Nancy on March 18, 1998 at 19:53:14:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Patricia Worth on March 17, 1998 at 22:20:13:

Patricia

Are lay people allowed to order from them? Can you give us any more detailed info? I'm going to do an internet search in a minute, but in case I don't find anything there and have trouble locating them with Directory Assistance, I'd really appreciate knowing more about this. I just bought a bottle from my D.C.



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Bill on March 18, 1998 at 23:12:22:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 18, 1998 at 13:26:10:

Thanks Dad, Doc Dave, and everybody for the suggestions!

I have a slight scoliosis (sp?) in lower back. I get episodes of sciatica every 3-6 months. My chiro clears it right up with 2-3 visits.

But this restless leg thing - I have done it ALL my life, I think. I will mention it to my chiro when I go next (got a maintenance appt in 3 weeks) and see if he has any ideas about it. I think sometimes it is simply a habit. When I get excited about working on a computer program or playing a board game or a bridge game, the legs start moving and I don't even notice. I was once playing duplicate, about 20 yrs ago, and (I'll never forget this) - the woman next to me (must have been 70+) reaches over and grabs my knee. It was bobbing up and down about 4 times per second and must have been terribly distracting :) Maybe it REALLY got going when I had a good hand, I dunno.

Maybe it's simply a habit now - or maybe more likely there is a deep itch that feels normal to me by now. I bet doing the skilled relaxation would help too...

Peace,
Bill


Re: Restless Legs Syndrome

Posted by Lori Jacobsen on March 19, 1998 at 12:11:40:

How can I find about a foundation to donate $ for research
for RLS?



Re: Restless Legs Syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 19, 1998 at 12:57:10:

In Reply to: Re: Restless Legs Syndrome posted by Judy Ann Ethridge on March 17, 1998 at 19:15:47:

Dear Judy,

Although nearly all RLS patients have a relative intracellular magnesium deficiency, the most common & powerful cause is the total body bracing caused by intolerable stress-effect storage in the hypothalamus (continuous fight or flight readiness).

You would benefit from reading a copy of Dr Pelletier's classic: "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer". THEN, when you are ready to learn how to reverse it, get a copy of my book (link below).

Then, if you still have questions, write again.

Walt



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 19, 1998 at 13:14:39:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Patricia Worth on March 17, 1998 at 22:20:13:

Der Pat,

I would appreciate any information you might have for contacting Douglas Labs.

I am always looking for a less expensive, quality supply of stuff like this.

Walt



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 19, 1998 at 13:52:12:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 18, 1998 at 08:51:38:

Dear Vicki,

Thanks for your note substantiating what I have been putting on this BB for years about this condition. It is the total body bracing that causes nearly all of these cases. it is at least part of the cause in EVERY case. That is why the deep massage helps.

However, without turning off the signals stored in the hypothalamus, he will need his massage forever AND eventually it will no longer work. The only way yet known to do that is by his practicing an effective skilled relaxation technique at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring).

Walt




Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Vicki on March 19, 1998 at 16:27:20:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Bill on March 18, 1998 at 23:12:22:

Bill,
Two questions for you:
1. After the woman grabbed your knee, were you able to keep your leg from moving?
2. Can you consciously and deliberately move your leg in the same way that it moves "on its own"?
Vicki



Re: Restless Legs Syndrome

Posted by Elaine on March 19, 1998 at 16:56:38:

Hi;
I'm trying to get some information on RLS. Any that I can get would be greatly appreicated. Thanks!


Douglass Laboratories

Posted by Nancy on March 19, 1998 at 19:45:00:

Walt:

The address for D.L. is www.douglasslabs.com

Unfortunately, it's for professionals only. You have to have a password to order. I wonder how much cheaper it is than Metagenics.

Nancy


Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 20, 1998 at 11:52:36:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 19, 1998 at 16:27:20:

Dear Vicki,

The unilateral nature of this condition leads me to think that Doc Dave likely has the most productive answer to this problem.

That is not to say that these other factors are not contributing to this problem, they are.

Walt



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Vicki on March 20, 1998 at 13:17:28:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 18, 1998 at 13:26:10:

Dave,
This is, to me, a fascinating little syndrome. It seems to vary in degree of severity from one person to another--some experience it only at night; others, like Bill, seem to experience symptoms at almost any time. I can see how the latter folks would have to learn to "tune it out" and often might not even be consciously aware it was happening. It only happens to my husband when he's trying to fall asleep, and it's hard for either one of us to ignore.

Now, here's what really intrigues me, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how it correlates with your comments on how chiropractic may help: my husband can lie in bed in a relaxed state for a long time (when reading, for example), and his leg will be perfectly still, but the INSTANT he rolls over with the intention of falling asleep, the leg starts to vibrate. Usually, the shaking will subside after a time, allowing him to fall asleep. Sometimes, it will recur during the night. Are there special chemical reactions going on in his brain when he is sleeping--or trying to sleep--that trigger the symptoms?
The only other time I've noticed him having restless leg symptoms is when he's also having brain symptoms, alongwith which he experiences extreme muscle tension throughout his body (literally becoming 2-3 inches shorter in height). At such times, his leg may shake so badly that he can barely stand or walk. So I'm back again to thinking there's a link between the RLS and something going on in his brain.
He has never tried chiropractic so I don't know whether it would help him or not. Do subluxations, etc, affect brain function?
Vicki



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Bill on March 20, 1998 at 21:03:00:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 19, 1998 at 16:27:20:

Hi Vicki,

1. After the woman grabbed your knee, were you able to keep your leg from moving?

Yes, but I had to be very conscious about it.

2. Can you consciously and deliberately move your leg in the same way that it moves "on its own"?

Yes, absolutely.

Bill



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 22, 1998 at 10:32:14:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 20, 1998 at 13:17:28:

Dear Vicki,

If you have read the references I recommended,you KNOW how this is related to brain function. Also, the brain fight or flight overload is complicated by the intracellular magnesium deficiency IN the muscle.

Once you have read the references, if you still have questions, write again.

Walt



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Vicki on March 23, 1998 at 13:16:51:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Walt Stoll on March 22, 1998 at 10:32:14:

I've been doing as much reading as I can in the limited amount of time available to me. I've read your book, "Brain Allergies," and am now reading Dr Watson's book ("Nutrition and Your Mind") Also read "Four Pillars of Healing" by Dr Leo Galland. I still have a list of at least 5 more books to get through. By then, I hope to have my home office set up so I can review and organize the notes I've taken and see what my poor brain can make of it all. I wish I could put everything else on hold for awhile and dedicate all my time to this issue! Don't think I'll give up or lose interest....I won't.
Vicki



Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Vicki on March 23, 1998 at 13:23:49:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Bill on March 20, 1998 at 21:03:00:

Hi, Bill
I don't know enough to even speculate about what it is, but I think there is a significant difference between your RLS and my husband's. He CANNOT stop his leg from moving, no matter how hard he tries. Nor can he "fake" it. l imagine it to be like trying to suppress or fake an eye twitch.
Vicki



Re: Douglass Laboratories

Posted by Patricia Worth on March 24, 1998 at 01:53:37:

In Reply to: Re: Douglass Laboratories posted by Walt Stoll on March 21, 1998 at 11:04:29:

After asking more at work about Douglas Laboratories, I did
find out that yes one needs to be a professional in order
to place orders with them. My apologies for not posting that info the first time. For those interested their address is Douglas Lab
600 Boyce Road
Pittsburg, PA 15205
11-800-245-4440 or 1-888-368-4522
Fax:412-494-0155


Re: restless leg syndrome

Posted by Walt Stoll on March 25, 1998 at 10:35:30:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 23, 1998 at 13:23:49:

Dear Vicki,

People experience RLS many different ways--just as peopel experience measles many different ways.

Walt



Re: SORRY SO LATE!!!!!! restless leg syndrome

Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 26, 1998 at 18:38:34:

In Reply to: Re: restless leg syndrome posted by Vicki on March 20, 1998 at 13:17:28:

I'm sorry that I missed your post here and I hope you see this. If and when you do please let me know at drdave@kih.net that way if I don't hear from you in a few days I can post it to the top of the BB. Chiropractic works for more things than I can list. The problem is that we are not sure which ones it will or will not work for until we try it. Like so many treatments.

Changes in Brain Function after Manipulation of the Cervical Spine, JMPT
vol. 20, No. 8. Oct 97, Frederick R. Carrick, D.C., PhD.

Abstract
Objective: To ascertain whether manipulation of the cervical spine is
associated with changes in brain function.

Design: Physiological cortical maps were used as an integer of brain
activity before and after manipulation of the cervical spine in a large
(500 subjects), double-blind controlled study.

Setting: Institutional clinic Participants: Adult volunteers

Intervention: Five hundred subjects were divided into six xomparative
groups and underwent specific manipulation of the second cervical motion
segment. Blinded examiners obtained reproducible pre- and postmanipulative
cortical maps, which were subjected to statistical analysis.

Main Outcome Measures: Brain activity was demonstrated by reproducible
circumferential measurements of cortical hemispheric blind-spot maps before
and after manipulation of the second cervical motion segment. Twelve null
hypotheses were developed. The critical alpha level was adjusted in
accordance with Bonferroi's therorem to .004 (.05 divided by 12) to reduce
the likelihood of wrongly rejecting the null hypothesis (i.e., committing a
Type 1 error).

Results: Manipulation of the cervical spine on the side of an enlarged
cortical map is associated with increased contralateral cortical activity
with strong statistical significance (; < .001). Manipulation of the
cervical spine on the side opposite an enlarged cortical map is associated
with decreased cortical activity with strong statistical significance (p <
.001). Manipulation of the cervical spine on the side opposite an enlarged
cortical map is associated with decreased cortical activity with strong
statistical significance (p < .001). Manipulation of the cervical spine
was specific for changes in only one cortical hemisphere with strong
statistical significance (p < .001).

Conclusions: Accurate reproducible maps of cortical responses can be used
to measure the neurological consequences of spinal joint manipulation.
Cervical manipulation activates specific neurological pathways.
Manipulation of the cervical spine may be associated with an increase or a
decrease in brain function depending upon the side of the manipulation and
the cortical henisphericity of a patient.



1998: Feb Mar

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