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After spending 4 hours on the archives I have a few questions for someone re: my daughter. Back in June 2004 she was in a car accident where she lacerated her spleen & liver, keeping her in the hospital for a week. She did not have surgery, we just watched her along the way, in hopes of saving her any more complications unnecessarily. Over the past few months her pain has gotten worst, not better. She is not even able to go to school, play outside, and many other “normal child activities” for her age.
We have gone through countless doctors in search of one that could tell us what is wrong. Unfortunately all we found where doctors telling us that she was just trying to get out of school… (that it all was in her head). After about a dozen doctors we finally found a surgeon that would look at all her medical records, and tests. It was he that initially found that her stomach on the CT was “distorted” and a red flag came up. He has since sent her to the local pain management clinic. She has been in the program now a month and has not had a lot of results yet. We are working hard on the biofeed back as I know it will be a great tool that she can use.
Just this week we had her first exam for the PT section of the pain clinic. It was the physical therapist that detected a possible problem with L5. She stated with her exam findings it appeared to her that she had significant damage, and could be a huge driving factor in her abdominal pain. We are going a few hours to get the MRI done. (which I have been asking for since Aug.).
My daughter is currently taking Vicodine, Ultram and Neurontin for her pain/symptoms. We have not seen any great improvement with the Neurontin, but have been told that it could take sometime to see anything with it. She was also given a TENS unit that she uses from 8-10 hours a day.
I know this is just a brief over view of a lot that is going on, but do you think that 1) she could be having a disc problem that was not detected at the time of the accident and initial treatment, 2) that this pain would continue to increase, making her not be able to “function” on a daily basis, 3) that her symptoms could be from a disc problem, and that we will be able to work with the pain clinic, current doctor, and a chiropractor to make it possible that she can live a life that mimic a average 12 year old???
Well thank you for your time. I truly look forward to hearing what you have to say or suggestions that you may have. A desperate mother sits and waits to hear back from you.
Horribly Worried Mother
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Mom,
64% of people with NO PAIN are walking around with L5 or bulging dics..If nothing shows in the MRI then yes it is her head..Not that the pain is not real, because it is, the brain is doing it's job trying to protect her from any more harm..Go on to this web site for more insite..John Sarno MD..Make sure first that nothing is wrong..
Silver Fox!
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Hi Mother,
Of course you will want to rule out all kinds of serious things first. However, if I were you, I would have her see a chiropractor and also have her see a massage therapist who works with children. If she has one tight muscle -- and believe me, muscles can tighten up from car accidents and not be felt until later -- it could refer pain to her abdomen and cause pain. Or, if her spine should simply happen to be out of alignment, it could also cause pain.
This may or may not be the answer, but I offer it in the event that other avenues are not helpful for you. I have worked with individuals who had surgery etc followed by years of relentless pain (that the doctors couldn't find a cause for) which was caused by a single muscle -- the psoas -- that simply needed to be massaged or stretched.
But of course, rule out the potentially serious stuff first. Or investigate both at the same time.
Best wishes to you and your daughter,
Jan DeCourtney, CMT
In Reply to: Re: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by steve [135.4] on October 22, 2004 at 08:30:54:
Thanks, Steve.
If she CAN with the relatively primitive diagnostic tools available to "scientific" medicine today.
Walt
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Hi, Horribly.
Listen to Happygal and Steve. We allopaths have not been trained in holistic, structural problems like this. You are going to have to go outside the allopathic monopoly to have any chance to resolve this.
In my opinion, this is NOT imaginary no matter what her docs are saying. It is really a travesty that docs begin to blame the patient when they do not have a clue!
The AMA has spent the last 100+ years trying, desperately, to "force the health care camel through the eye of the allopathic needle". Your daughter is one of the millions of victims of that self-serving attitude.
Let us know what you learn and how she does.
Walt
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Your daughter's body-mind-spirit has had a terrible shock with this accident and it seems likely that the whole event has become stuck in her energy system. I'm making the same point as Steve, but from a slightly different perspective. The relatively recently developed 'energy techniques' like EFT (emotional freedom technique), TFT (Thought Field Therapy)and BSFF (Be Set Free Fast) are ideally suited to clearing this sort of trauma.
The one I know most about is EFT. For further information, go to www.emofree.com. There are lots of excellent case studies on the site, which will show you how much it can do. Though it can be used in a multitude of ways, I think it is particularly suited for clearing shock/pain from a specific traumatic incident, as is the case with your daughter. You, too, would benefit from the tapping, as your daughter's 'Horribly Worried Mother'.
EFT is expanding fast at the moment and there will probably be a practitioner near you you could go and see. There are also lots of people who work very successfully via the phone. I wish you and your daugher well. Rib
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
I agree with what all the rest said. I would take a double-prong approach if it were me.
Prong 1 - must find the physical cause if at all possible. Run, do not walk, from any doc who says it is all in her imagination. My daughter had constant stomach pain for over a year and we were told by the doc that she was just trying to get out of going to school. I finally took her to another doc who found visible duodenal ulcers on X-ray and diagnosed H-pylori. He put her on antibiotics and in one month she was completely cured and pain free. She was 12 years old - not your typical ulcer patient profile - I had to find a doc willing to think outside the box. If you know something is wrong, do not give up until you find it.
Personally I would demand an explanation for the "distorted" stomach. What???? She lacerated her spleen and liver but had no surgery?? I hate to even suggest this, but perhaps they should have done an exploratory for damage. If it were me, I believe I would want to personally go over MRIs of the entire abdominal region with a fine tooth comb.
Prong 2 - also treat her whole-istically for more than just a shock... it is a permanent change that she has gone through. My theory is that any surgery or serious injury will leave you different in some way, usually worse off, as you've scarred your body and "energy field", if you will. Her entire body and mind has been impacted severely and she will need to find a new normal and needs all the help in every way that she can get. The specifics I would use first are therapeutic massage and stress reduction. Diet, biofeedback, etc. all can be brought in but be careful not to overwhelm her with too many requirements for change too fast. That will only increase her stress. I think I would avoid chiropractic until MRIs demonstrate no vertabra/disk damage! It is almost certain that in addition to whatever damage may be causing the pain, she is "bracing" as Walt puts it and no matter what, will benefit from massage and relaxation.
Now my soapbox... this story demonstrates why I harp on car accidents as one of our number one URGENT health problems!! It always baffles me the way people put so much energy into "there's mercury in my fish" and "I'm living next to a high voltage line, oh no!" and tend to ignore this MAJOR cause of permanent and severe chronic pain and illness. Wear your seatbelts, obey traffic laws, do not drive under the influence, do not use the cell while driving!!! Rant off. Good luck, I wish your daughter the best.
In Reply to: Re: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Aunt [1815.1449] on October 26, 2004 at 05:04:19:
Thanks, Aunt.
Right on!
Walt
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Well we have now completed MRIs of her lower and middle back with no sign of any problems. The doctor at the pain clinic has stated that all the discs look good with enough room for the nerve endings. We have also gone through a endoscopy that reveled that all looked normal.
Over the past week her pain has increased to a level that ended us up in the local ER for additional pain relief for her. She is currently taken, depending on her pain level, Vicodine, Ultram or Percocet. At the ER they gave her a shot of morphine, giving her the first relief of the pain in a LONG time. She is just 3 days out from the endoscopy, and is suffering from the extreme sore throat as well as her abdomen pain.
Having the doctors feel that they have exalted their means, they are wanting to send us to Seattle (we are in AK now) to see other doctors. This will be at least 3-4 weeks away before this occurs, so I was going to se a local clinic that deals with holistic healing. There are message therapist, acupuncturist, chiropractors and MDs. I am hoping that they will have some suggestions to help relieve some of her pain. I keep thinking that it can not get any worst, and it does. On the average she is rating her pain at a 9-10 90% of the time.
The OR nurse had the guts to tell her that there was no way that she could be hurting that much. She then pulled out the pain chart, with the faces, and went over what each face their meanings, as if my daughter does not know this already. She just laid there and listened, and after she walked out of the room, stated that she could not stand that nurse as she was rude and ignorant! I guess what I am saying is that I am sick of the medical profession down playing what my little girl is going through. Just because she is so young they fell that she is not capable of knowing, dealing, or having the pain that she is living through 24/7.
I want to think you all for your responses, and I am taking all the suggestions in. At this point we are willing to do anything to figure out what is going on, and to deal with the pain better. If you have any more suggestions or comments, PLEASE respond to this. Thank you one and all that is taking the time to read this.
Horribly Worried Mother
In Reply to: Re: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by UPDATE: Horribly Worried Mom [1120.1584] on November 12, 2004 at 12:06:05:
Hi Worried:
This past July I experienced the most intense stomach pains I've ever had in my life. I was unable to move and thought I had a perforated stomach or possibly kidney stones. A CAT scan plus other tests revealed nothing of any significance. My doctor was at a loss. Finally, my chiropractor was able to diagnose some severe muscle spasms and immediately adjusted my stomach muscles along with my spine. This stopped the pain. I had no idea the stomach muscles could even be adjusted or could cause such severe pains. You might consider having your daughter see a chiropractor for a COMPLETE diagnosis and adjustment. It won't hurt and could possibly help a great deal. Good luck.
In Reply to: Re: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by UPDATE: Horribly Worried Mom [1120.1584] on November 12, 2004 at 12:06:05:
Thanks, Horribly.
I think you are on the right track with the holistically oriented clinic since everything else has been pretty well ruled out.
By far the most common cause of such a story is chronic internalized stress. That cause can easily create 9-10 pain rankings in a teenage girl.
You can be sure that she will seriously resist the idea that this may be self-caused. The clininc will be more skilled than the nurse at discovering this and getting her to think about it.
Let us iknow what you learn.
Walt
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
HWM,
Considering what your daughter has been through, my experience may mean little to you but just is case..
My youngest daughter had extreme stomach pains at about that age, maybe a year younger.
Her pain was so bad she would double over and had trouble breathing. Her doc finally admitted her thinking for sure she was having appendicitis.
He ran every test he could think of finding nothing wrong concluding it must be time for her periods to start.
I didn't believe this since I've never known of anyone having so much trouble and pain starting. But within a few months she did start and is having trouble with fever and vomiting as well as cramps off and on whenever it's time for her period.
Just in case,
D
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Hi HWM, I know exactly what YOU are going through as a mom of a child in so much pain. Its so stressful. I have been going through a similar situation with my youngest who is 16. She started having migraines in March. The pain has been terrible. Now the question is, when doesn't she have a migraine. At least with her, we know its migraines and there are pain medications and medications used to control the migraines. She has also been through a wide range of tests and the good news is, there isn't a tumor, the downside is, they don't know why she is having migraines.
Not to take away from you and your post, I just wanted to say I know how difficult this is for you and your little girl. I want to recommend another website. Dr. Stolls website is excellent!!! Have found so much help for me and others here. I have found some other sights too because of my daughters migraines. Try www.healthboards.com.
I hope your able to find a solution soon!!!! Bless you mom.
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Horribly Worried Mother [1120.1351] on October 22, 2004 at 06:17:45:
Please contact me at alternative.health@verizon.net and I can give you some suggestions that might help!!!! * S.H.A.P.E. *
In Reply to: Re: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain & possible L-5 disc problems posted by Barb [2737.1351] on November 13, 2004 at 10:45:48:
Thank you Barb for the info on the other site. At this point I am willing to look at anything that may be of some help.
In Reply to: 12 year old daughter with severe abdominal pain (The mysteries of teenage girls. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on November 13, 2004 at 08:07:21:
Thank you for the suggestions and the support. We have an appointment with a natural clinic this week to see if they have any suggestions. We are taking this day to day, and sometimes hour by hour. I know that there is an answer out there, as well as a way my daughter can be able to act, play and enjoy life like all other 12 year olds. I just want to tell you that this website has been a great support for me. I feel as if I am in this alone, until I found your website. Thank you for all that you do. HWM
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