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Dear Dr. Stoll-
I came to your site seeking info on herniated discs; my M-in-Law suffers a herniated, and I assume, ruptured and fused disc between L4&5. I have since checked on the pros and cons of prolotherapy, (prolotherapy.com and quackwatch.com), and, I have spoken with my Rolfer. The impression I have from my (albiet limited) research is that while prolo therapy IS beneficial and does promote the creation of connective tissue in affected areas, SURGERY seems to be the only course for the treatment of a herniated/ruptured disc. I completely agree with your Hammer and Nail anecdote (I have friends who are surgeons: after a few drinks, the "Hippocratic" veneer evaporates, revealing the true, mercantile nature of their professional motivation--you should hear the shameful way they talk about internal medicine practicioners!), but I cannot find any evidence to support any other method of treating (not merely symptom relief)than the surgery. Would you honor me with a reply?
Respectfully,
Gary
p.s. Would you recommend her using my Nordic Track to tone her spine, since the surgery is not an option ($$) at this time?
In Reply to: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by Gary on September 04, 2001 at 12:40:38:
I'm afraid you've been hoodwinked by the mainstreamers (believe me you're not alone). I had an excruciatingly painful herniated disc for 3 years. Finally went to sports medicine doc who put me on traction, and I recovered in no time. Since then regular yoga exercises have kept my back in great shape. I haven't met a person yet who's had surgery who can say the same thing. I hope they're out there, but like I say, all I hear is just the opposite. More pain, and often more surgeries.
People will tell you traction is out of date and uneffective. I say try it. What have you got to lose, except a few hours a week? I know other people who've also had good results. There are also gravity traction machines ($300) and yoga devices ($50) that use the body's own weight to separate the vertabrae and let that disc material move back to where it belongs, but I can't say if they're as immediately effective in the short term, as the motorized traction is. In the long term, and for maintenance of a healthy back, I think they're great.
good luck,
penny
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by penny on September 05, 2001 at 17:51:37:
Hi Penny!
Thanks for replying. I am not sure if this is a factor, but my M-in-Law's disc ruptured/fused (I may be using the wrong terms here: in other words, the disc "broke," and then "healed" improperly. Would you also elaborate on what is "Traction?" Are you talking about inversion boots, etc...?
Thanks!
Gary
In Reply to: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by Gary on September 04, 2001 at 12:40:38:
Hi, Gary.
I would first recommend her becoming an expert in SR for long term relief; Doing Rolfing now for a shorter term relief and practicing Alexander Technique OR Feldenkrais for longer effectiveness of the Rolfing.
I, personally, am an example of one who has resolved this exact problem ( 5 separate defects on my myelogram 25 years ago), with surgery recommended as my only option. I practiced SR and changed my terrible diet and have had NO pain in my back for more than 20 years.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by penny on September 05, 2001 at 17:51:37:
Thanks, Penny.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) (Archive in spinal.) posted by Walt Stoll on September 06, 2001 at 09:50:25:
Dr. Stoll-
Thank you so much for the counsel! I think we can begin right away on the Alexander Technique and Rolfing; are you aware of ANY recommendable books on SR that have been translated into Russian? We have the complicating factors of a language barrier and 50 years of Soviet lifestyle!
Gary
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by Gary on September 06, 2001 at 09:05:31:
Ahhh, I can't speak to your mil's specific situation, only share my own, but boy it sounds like she's having a tough go. I've never experienced anything like the pain I felt when my back was messed up.
The traction I'm talking about specifically, is an electrical device where you're strapped on your back to a special seperating table with your legs bent at the knees (90 deg) and resting up on a padded bench. Your calves are parallel to the table. The traction itself consists of your body being stretched and then released, stretched and released for perhaps and hour or so. I did this several times a week for maybe a couple of months and my back was healed. This was after having doctors tell me all kinds of outrageous things. An orthopedic surgeon told me that instead of muscle spasms causing the distortion in my body, it was severe scoliosis (that just suddenly appeared, I suppose) and that I'd just have to live with it. I was told I'd never walk normally again, had to have surgery, etc. etc. Thank goodness I wouldn't accept that. Anyway, traction has fallen out of favor with surgeons (I wonder why), but I recently spoke to someone who also recently had traction and it was very successful so maybe it's coming back in style. Like I said before, it was a sports medicine doctor who recommended it for me (and he was an olympic team doctor as well). If you want to find a doctor who will prescribe traction, call some physical therapists who offer traction, and ask them which doctors prescribe it. You'll save yourself a lot of grief.
The other kind of traction is gravity traction (the old gravity boots). Actually, not too many people use those anymore, but there are devices like the one I have where you hang by your knees, only a couple minutes at a time. Also inversion type cots that flip you upside down at a 45 degree angle or so. Anything to reverse the effects that gravity has on your spine and seperate those vertabrae. Yoga also sells an expensive hanging contraption, but you have to be agile enough to get yourself into it (not as hard as it sounds, but if you're in severe pain, it could be tricky). All the physical therapists tell you to do yoga exercises for the back, and now that I practice yoga regularly, I can say without a doubt, I wish I'd followed their advice. I've never felt better in my life. You might want to get your MIL a 'yoga for the back' video. Very inexpensive and could make a big difference.
best of luck,
penny
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by penny on September 07, 2001 at 12:42:49:
I meant to say that yoga contraption is INEXPENSIVE. Sorry,
penny
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by penny on September 07, 2001 at 12:42:49:
Penny,
Thank you so much for your reply!
Gary
In Reply to: Re: Herniated Discs (L4 &5) posted by Gary on September 07, 2001 at 08:46:12:
Hi, Gary.
I do not KNOW but I would be surprised if the Relaxation Workbook I have been describing on this 'site has not been translated into Russian.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
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