Kudos, Lisa! Kudos!
You would be interested in THE classic book about all that you have said: "Vibrational Medicine" by Richard Gerber, MD. It has just been reprinted as an expanded & updated edition.
I would appreciate you continuing to share what you know about this. Just because "vibrations" are invisible to our eyes is no reason to consider that they are not critical for communication within and between our cells.
It is interesting that the news, yesterday, reported proof that the power companies have been systematically suppressing the links between electromagnetic smog & human health.
Thanks for your wonderful note.
Walt
Dear Holly,
Your list of recommendations are perfect!
Thanks! Walt
Dear Roger,
There are many safer & more effective options than surgery
-----especially with your past history.
Use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal problems that are frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
Dear daniel,
There IS something to be said for narcotics not being addictive IF the peerson has enough pain. However, after a few weeks (or rarely months) this argument becomes moot as the body accomodates itself to existance in the presence of the extraneous narcotic. THEN, the person reacts to withdrawal of the drug with the typical symptoms of addictive withdrawal. After a year, this is definitely in the works. The only way the person could disprove it would be to stop the drug & see if s/he suffers withdrawal symptoms.
The definition if addiction is that when the substance is withdrawn the individual suffers symptoms. On that basis, sugar, caffeine, tranquilizers, etc., are all addicting.
Walt
StarP-I am going to have the same surgery. Did it help the right side.how is recovery?was your surgery down from the front of the neck? any complications?Any help will be appreciated. Thanks
Hello Dr. Stoll - I have been diagnosed as having a severe C6/7 herniated disc on my right side causing right shoulder and arm pains. Additionally the MRI shows a slight herniation of C5/6. I have lost some muscle responsiveness in my right triceps and my wrist. and experience some tingling in my r.thumb,index,middle finger. Iam due for the C6/7 AMDF next week but am going for as many opinions as needed to try not to have the surgery. The neuro is one of the best in Atlanta. This problem has been going on since 11/97. I saw a Chiro. in Dec and had no luck. I am concerned about the surgery and complications. I am searching the internet trying to get info on this problem and surgery but not much luck. I saw a referral you posted to Dr. Shealy.How do I contact him, Do you have any advice? Thanks JC6/7
I would just like to address the term "addiction" here in regards to narcotic useage. This term is mainly and generally used to express a condition of where psycological dependence has occured. Usually from a high that the drug can deliver. People with pain do NOT experience that high, there is scientific evidence to support this. However, the person can experience some withdrawl symtoms from the narcotic. Please let us learn to use the correct vocabulary, there by allowing the people who have to live with pain, to have one less painful thing to deal with such as having to fight against moral judgements, and embarresment, from lack
of information and the inability to seperate the abusers.
Chronic pain sufferers do NOT rob drug stores or commit acts of violence.
Doesn't that feeling just stink? Most of the people I have seen with these symptoms have subluxations in the cervical and/or thoracic region. I once figured out exactly what muscle was contracting and figured out where the innervation was coming from(nerve supply) and analyzed the position at that level. It was BARELY misaligned but after the first adjustment the contractions stopped. Subluxations come from thoughts, traumas, and toxins. Dr. Stolls book and this site will help you find how to remove the "thoughts" (mental stressors) and toxins that result in bracing and spinal dysfunction.
Let us know how things turn out.
In Reply to: internal pain in elbow posted by Stephen Marlette on March 02, 1998 at 08:47:43:
The first thing you should do is find a chiropractor in your area who treats extremities. Secondly, the ice/heat trick depends on how you see the problem. Just like a sprained ankle and it's acute stage you would never put heat on it. Muscles in you back relax with heat but the joint inflammation just makes them tighten back up, but even more now because of the added heat increasing the inflammation in that joint.
Heat is rarely the answer despite the fact that it feels good while on there. After I hit my thumb with a hammer I shake it. Why? because that "gates" the pain away and your body pays attention to the shaking. Same with heat but unfortunately the heat can increase the inflammation and result in increased sorness later.
Try ice first. 15 minutes on then 1hr off. If that doesn't work then you might try heat. Not knowing exactly what is going on with your elbow makes it nearly impossible for me to give much advice. As I stated, finding the right chiropractor in your area would be of great benefit. So many times elbow pain is an end result of shoulder girdle dysfunction or spinal dysfunction. Relaxation techniques would be in order no matter what you find.
If you have not previously tried chiropractic you should seriously consider it. Along with skilled relaxation it may prove to be the least invasive, most cost effective, and most effective in general(long and short term) I included the following from the British Medical Journal.
Randomised comparison of chiropractic and hospital outpatient management for low back pain:
results from extended follow up
T W Meade, Sandra Dyer, Wendy Browne, A O Frank
Abstract
Objective - To compare the effectiveness over three years of chiropractic and hospital outpatient management for low back
pain.
Design - Randomised allocation of patients to chiropractic or hospital outpatient management.
Setting - Chiropractic clinics and hospital outpatient departments within reasonable travelling distance of each other in 11
centres.
Subjects - 741 men and women aged 18-64 years with low back pain in whom manipulation was not contraindicated.
Outcome measures - Change in total Oswestry questionnaire score and in score for pain and patient satisfaction with
allocated treatment.
Results - According to total Oswestry scores improvement in all patients at three years was about 29% more in those treated
by chiropractors than in those treated by the hospitals. The beneficial effect of chiropractic on pain was particularly clear.
Those treated by chiropractors had more further treatments for back pain after the completion of trial treatment. Among both
those initially referred from chiropractors and from hospitals more rated chiropractic helpful at three years than hospital
management. Conclusions - At three years the results confirm the findings of an earlier report that when chiropractic or
hospital therapists treat patients with low back pain as they would in day to day practice those treated by chiropractic derive
more benefit and long term satisfaction than those treated by hospitals.
Medical Research Council
Epidemiology and Medical Care Unit
Wolfson Institute of Preventive Medicine
Medical College of St Bartholomew's Hospital
London EC1M 6BQ
T W Meade director
Sandra Dyer statistician
Wendy Browne research nurse
Northwick Park Hospital
Harrow HA1 3UJ
A O Frank consultant in rheumatology and
rehabilitation
Hello,
I just had an L5-S1 spinal fusion about three weeks ago, and am feeling pretty well. I'm up walking around without pain and have been relatively pain-free for about 1 1/2 weeks. I'v been reading about lots of people's horror stories of their operations and was wondering if they felt well at the beginning and then deteriorated, or if they never felt well at all after the operation. I'm also curious about long term results of those people that felt relatively well post-surgically.
Thanks,
Beth
I left a follow up but don,t know if I did it right. I was
reading about the excess wear on the disc above and below
a fusion , will this happen as much with a single level?
With a single level fusion are you as likely to need another surgery as much as with a mult. level fusion ?
information on this surgery, different options.
I have herniated disc at C5 ansd C6. I have been in pain for 6 weeks. The pain isn't as severe, but it doesn't seem to let up even with physical therapy and cortisone treatment. I am going for a second opinion re: spinal fusion. I am confused as to what to do. I am an extremely active person and this has definitely slowed me down.
I experienced a stiff neck that never went away in October of 1997. After two weeks with no relief I went to my GP who scheduled an x-ray of the C & T spine which was negative. Still with no relief and annoying headaches, I was told by a friend to seed a Chiropractor. I went several times and was told by the Chiropractor that I had a subluxation. Still with no relief for another three weeks I demanded my GP order an MRI and refer me to a Neurosurgeon. The result was actually relieving to me because I thought by this time I had a brain tumor!!!
The Neursurgeon scheduled me for physical therapy for 6 weeks. I was told to exercise every day for the rest of my life or until it reached a point where I will request surgery.
Any suggestions on surgery or whatever will help??
In Reply to: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Beth on March 02, 1998 at 19:01:06:
Beth, I am pleased to hear about your success with spinal fusion. Seems like most of the messages on this site are not so fortunate. But then, maybe it's like the oral surgeon who never sees a root canal that worked - he only gets to yank out the ones that fail!
I haven't had spinal fusion, but with degenerative disk arthritis I am beginning to believe I am a candidate, so I'm looking for info. I have learned about a number of new techniques involving inplants - titanium cylinders, cadaver bone, etc. I'm wondering what technique your doc uses.
Also, I'm wondering how long one is flat on his back after that kind of surgery. Can you get up after a day or two, or is it a couple of weeks? Sounds like you were up in a week or so.
I am in the Seattle area and would like to hear from anyone who's found an info network aroun here concerning this kind of surgery?
In Reply to: Re: Cervical disc protrusion/fusion posted by JC6/7 on March 02, 1998 at 06:15:08:
Dear JC6/7,
Are you considering surgery as your only option?
Walt
In Reply to: Anter. Micro-Discectomy&Fusion posted by JC6/7 on March 02, 1998 at 06:47:53:
Dear JC6/7,
Dr Shealy is one of the top neurosurgeons in the world and is the originator of the Pain & Stress Treatment Center (P&STC) concept.
If I had what you have described, I would go straight to him (or anyone in your area that he would endorse) for the P&STC consultation that will eventually be the law of the land. Surgery may be your only option but you at least deserve to have an informed choice.
You can reach Dr Shealy's center by calling (417) 865-5940.
Let us know what happens.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Gerry Maki on March 04, 1998 at 00:09:00:
Gerry,
I, too, had degenerative disc disease with complete degeneration of the disc between L5 and S1. Plus I had grade I spondylo with pars fractures. I had the steel screws placed in L5 and S1 with metal rods connecting the two screws, then bone grafts from my hip grafted into the back of the spine. They got me up the day after surgery, but all I did was stand for a few seconds. By the next day I was able to walk to the bathroom using a walker. After about a week I could walk without my walker and could get around the house on my own (no stairs of course). Most of the time I spent in a Lazy Boy recliner or lying on my back or sides. It's been almost three weeks now and I can sit in a chair for up to an hour, but I still rest a lot in bed.
I'm in the San Diego area , so I can't help you with Seattle contacts, but good luck.
Beth
In Reply to: Mult level fusion vs. single level fusion posted by J barnett on March 02, 1998 at 21:40:35:
Dear J,
So long as you are only looking as surgery, your surgeon is the only one who can answer this question. When you are ready to look at your other options, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: HERNIATED DISK PROBLEM posted by C. King on March 03, 1998 at 22:01:06:
Anyone with a spinal problem, for which surgery is being considered, owes themselves at least an informed choice.
Toward that end, I would suggest using the search feature provided with this BB & read everything they can find about spinal problems frequently surgerized.
"To a hammer, everything looks like a nail". You are not likely to get any options from a surgeon but at least eventual surgery. I, personally, had 5 bulging or ruptured discs at the same time and "surgery was the only answer". By learning, and applying, alternatives, I was normal within 6 months & have had no problem for more than 20 years. I never had any surgery.
THEN, if you have more questions, write again. Knowledge will not hurt you. You can always go get the surgery if you get tired learning.
Walt
I was just told by a Sports Physician that I may have a herniated disk. I am going to be starting physical therapy tomorrow...I just want to know more...could the diagnosis be wrong...is physical therapy a good idea....should I stop my running entirely...I'm hardly experiencing any pain...could the problem be a different one? I'm experiencing mild pain in my upper back and some hip aching and slight tingling in one leg...
In Reply to: Re: HERNIATED DISK PROBLEM posted by Susan Streicher on March 05, 1998 at 18:18:48:
Dear Susan,
I hope Doc Dave will find your note & respond. If he does not, in a few days, write your note again and put his name in the title to attract his attention.
ALSO, you should use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
Hello! I am being advised to have disc fusion surgery for stenoses between C4/5 and 5/6. Would like any and all comments from those of you who have had the surgery, regarding the experience, not only of the surgery, but of post-surgical issues as well.
Thanks.
Is rolfing useful for body movement disorders such as Parkinson's or Dystonia? Dystonia is due to overly active nerve stimulation from the basal ganglia or thalamus area of the brain causing extremely painful muscle spasms. Particularly, the Sternocleidomastoid and the opporsite Trapezius muscle are mostly affected.
Thank you in advance for any reply.
okkie
Dr. Stoll,
I have a close friend who's struggling with the effects of syringomyelia. She was operated on by a leading neurologist in NYC last summer, at which time a shunt was placed in her spinal column to drain off the excess spinal fluid.
She now deals with central pain typical of spinal injury patients. Many with her condition go on disability, but she's determined to stay productive. The problem is that many of the conventional treatments for both her syringomyelia & her central pain sedate her so heavily, it makes it very difficult for her to function. Most of her central pain comes from her leg, which is 5 degrees colder than her main body, & has the constant burning sensitivity common to such patients. Even though sedated, she has great difficulty sleeping thru the night.
She has an incredibly positive attitude, displays a lot of courage, is very pro-active with her doctors & has no self-pity.
She would like to replace some or all of her meds with holistic & herbal remedies, with an eye to regaining more of her quality of life.
Are there any holistic/herbal/etc. ways you are aware of, or experts she can go to for this problem? Any advice at all?
Many thanks,
Glen Gilchrist
I am almost 4 yrs s/p cervical laminectomy. With a longstanding h/o recurrent problems with c-4, c-5, c-6 disc herniation, spurs and on and on. Today I've again consulted with my neurosurgeon and am in process of scheduling consult with and Ortho Surg, repeat MRI c-spine and surgery in 4-6 weeks. Concerns - what to expect, post-surgical recovery as well as limitations immediately following and long term. I want to be very sure I do everything possible as previously I was much to anxious to return to life as usual.
Wow, glad to hear of such a success. However, I am no so lucky. After a fall in Jan of 1997, I have had the cage fusion on the L5-L4 levels.. I am now at the Cleveland Clinic re-doing the first failed surgery. I'm in such pain all the time I have thought of killing myself. For a 40yr old lady I fell 90. Any help or insite on this would be great. Or just a friendly word of help too.
Thanks
Suzanne
In Reply to: rolfing for cervical dystonia or body movement disorders posted by Okkie on March 09, 1998 at 14:31:10:
Dear Okkie,
Call (800) 530-8875 to get that information. ANYTHING that generally improves total body function will help ANY chronic condition. SO, the answer probably is a qualified yes.
However, in MY experience, skilled relaxation, imagery, and a healthy whole-foods diet--along with high doses of B complex and antioxidents (vitamins C, E & betacarotine) would be the first thing I would do.
Walt
On 1/31/98, I began to experience chronic pain in my left shoulder and tricep which kept me from sleeping for a few nights. I decided to see an orthopedic specialist and by then numbness and burning in my left index finger was fairly constant along with the arm, scapular and shoulder pain. Doc said C6-C7 compression and to try therapy,Which doesn't seem to be helping,then cervical epidural injections, which I just got my 2nd and very short term relief is noted. My question is if there are any minimally invasive procedures that could help if the shots don't work. Accupunture? Anything but surgery for now that is. Any help would be appreciated.
Paul
I was also recommended for L5-Sl spinal fusion due to spondylolisthesis, spondylolysis and disc herniation at the level. I hear that it is very risky, and would appreciate any information or advice.
I had a bone graft from my hip and I was warned about the pain.......what pain? I had NONE. As I search the web, I'm realizing what really fine technicians my surgeons are!
In Reply to: Cervical Fusion posted by Cynthia on March 11, 1998 at 00:16:14:
Dear Cynthia,
Your hopes for the future are NEVER going to be realized if the only option you know about is surgery. Remember: " To a hammer, everything looks like a nail!" You are likely not going to get any options from your surgeons BUT surgery.
Use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about all spinal conditions frequently surgerized (they might be archived). You will begin to see that surgery is the last resort once the person is advised of their many other options.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
WHY DO YOU THINK YOU KEEP HAVING THESE PROBLEMS?????????
Walt
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion - l4-l5-s1 posted by Suzanne Kerekes on March 11, 1998 at 07:12:00:
Dear Suzanne,
From your note, it is apparent to me that you have not yet used the search feature for this BB. Use it & read everything you can find about any spinal condition frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Cervical Fusion posted by Cynthia on March 11, 1998 at 00:16:14:
If all conservative treatment modalities have failed, and you are neurologically at risk for severe permanent damage, surgery is your option; only you and your physicians can make that decision. I recently had a cervical discectomy with fusion which preserved my spinal cord function; this followed 4 years of pain management with chiropractic, traction, exercise, and lots of Motrin. Changes in symptoms which indicated spinal cord compression led me to surgery. I have written some survival tips which my neurosurgeon now includes in the pre-op information packet. If you send me your email address, I'll be glad to forward it to you.
Dear Walt, to answer your question about why I had to have this surgery: my brother blew a disc 20 years ago, so maybe there's a genetic predispostion; I am under 5' tall, so everything is a reach for me, and it's not realistic to leash a stepstool to my belt; I've been working 25 years as a nurse, lifting, hauling, reaching, restraining and pulling my patients. I can't change my gene pool or my height. I have been working to control pain conservatively for 4 years with a chiropractor. 70% spinal cord compression with neurological impairment warranted more aggressive treatment.
I am pain- and symptom-free, thanks to extraordinarily fine physicians; my surgery was done by a neurosurgeon and an orthopedist. I read about post-op pain from the donor site, and since I had not a twinge of an ache, I can only guess that my orthopod is the best in the field. And I guess that's really the key: to find physicians who specialize so finely that they truly live in the spine, rather than someone who visits there on occasion. Best of luck to all visitors to this site. Janellenrn@aol.com
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Caryl Gentile on March 09, 1998 at 14:21:39:
Hi - I had a double cervical fusion about three years ago. Symptoms were stiff neck and atrophied trisept. The surgery was not painful and was performed with bone from a bone bank. I considered this almost a complete success (I have never regained the bulk of my trisect but have regained most of my strength) Now three years later I am just recovered from my second operation and third cervical fusion.
This time the symptoms were a little scarier - a gradual limping in my left leg and occasional tremors.
Caused by a bone spur pinching my spinal cord and causing swelling. Most symptoms have gone except for an occasional slight limp. However I am being advised to think about having surgery for a third time - opening the spinal cavity - I am interested in any ones experience with this
Yes I just had sugery I would recommend it for all with this trouble I have no more pain I am still recovreing but am back at work on desk dudy My hip gave me the most trouble it is still sore
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by P Kolody on March 12, 1998 at 12:52:30:
Dear Paul,
The effective options to your situation have been discussed, in depth, many times within the past year right here on this BB.
Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized. You may even have to go to the archives, there are so many entries.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by JaneEllen on March 13, 1998 at 15:04:12:
Dear JaneEllen,
Thank you for the note. I am happy that you are among the 1/3 that have positive surgical results.
I am concerned that the only alternative you mentioned was Chiropractic. What about skilled rerlaxation (among many other complementary options)? Most options work together and none, by themselves, have a high % of success (like surgery, for example).
As a nurse, you would enjoy being in contact with the American Holistic Nursing Association. Use any internet search engine & look for AHNA.
You STILL have the same susceptibilities that you had before the successful surgery. The surgery did NOTHING about them. What will be the next message your bodymind tries to send you?
You are right! You cannot change your gene pool. HOWEVER, all of the genetic research presently is pointing up the fact that all genetic conditions are mainly influenced by environmental stuff we CAN change. The value of understanding our genetic susceptibilities is that we can know what things we need to do to reduce our risks in THAT area.
You still have yours. Most of the opportunities, for you to learn what your present preventive options are, have been discussed on this BB over the past year. The time to fix the roof IS while the sun is shining.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Chuck Wiser on March 13, 1998 at 21:59:08:
Dear Chuck,
If the only option you look at is surgery, your future is going to be like your past--only gradually worse.
Use the search feature for this BB & read evferything you can find about spinal conditions frequestly surgerized. There has been so much about this subject, most notes may be archived.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
I had a spinal fusion 3 yrears ago on L-4 thru S-1, after having had 4 separate laminectomies in the same area. When the fusion was done, pedicle screws were used to stabilze the area. The same pedicle screws that are not approved by the FDA for placement in the spine (placement approved for arm and leg use only).
Six weeks after surgery the screws on both sides of L-5 broke. I could feel it. When the area was X-Rayed, the screws looked fine since they would go back into place if I was laying down. For a year I was told everything was fine. At the end of the year I opted to have the hardware that was no longer necessary removed. By the way, the increased pain was said to be caused by Sacro-Ileac inflamation and not broken pedicle screws. When the screws were removed it was found that they had broken. Some of the broken pieces can not be taken out as they are encased in bone and "should not bother me".
I am not worse physically for having had the broken screws, but they certainly made me doubt myself for that year of unexplained pain. I have had to have 4 more surgeries and am now facing another fusion at the L-2 level because of Spondelethesis ( not spelled correctly).
In Reply to: Mult level fusion vs. single level fusion posted by J barnett on March 02, 1998 at 21:40:35:
I have to have a mult level fusion plus they have to release my spinal cord which is also being pinched by my colapsed disc's , to top it off i only have about 5 good disc's then i have 4 more colapsed disc's so i know what it is to have the pain and the fears of this opperation, but i would like some more information on the fusion opperation so can be prepared as i am only 37 yrs old with four kids in hand, could you please help thank you.
chris martin
There is an increase tendency to fuse when allograft bone is used. I would also ask the Dr. doing the surgery whether he is doing another ant. approach or a posterior approach. The studies I have read indicate a higher fusion rate when done posteriorly. Good luck darlin.
Linda :-)
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Walt Stoll on March 15, 1998 at 10:14:33:
Dear Walt: You are right. I was fortunate to have had a holistically-oriented chiropractor, so there were many complementary therapies used for pain management. And with great relief, I might add, for 4 years. Surgery was my option when cord compression compromised my neurological status and needed release. I did not expect the surgery to correct pain, my lifestyle or my genetics; just cord compression, to preserve spinal cord function. My pain is gone, whether that's due to the surgery or less work, time will tell. I am familiar with AHNA; several of my colleagues are students at a local holistic nursing program. I find it curious that years of nursing practice lead many nurses to believe: there must be more. Many of us incorporate holistic approaches within very traditional settings in the ED and ICU. Next point:
Though my body is telling me I'm getting too old and worn to continue nursing in a physically demanding environment, I am reluctant to give up a practice that I love, and that I'm good at! Realism prevails: I have cut my work-status down to part-time, and continuing my education to allow me to put my experience to good use in health education.
While complementary therapies are very valuable, it is important to remember that they are COMPLEMENTARY, and not alternative. Music therapy, massage, meditation won't fix a broken bone, a heart attack or a blocked gall bladder; they will help relax a patient, reducing pain and anxiety, thereby allowing traditional treatments to work better. Visualization is a valuable tool in aiding healing. And prayer, I believe, is the greatest "complementary" therapy we have.
In Reply to: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Beth on March 02, 1998 at 19:01:06:
Hello
I had a discectomy for L4/L5 Herniated Disc in June of 1997. On February 18, 1998 I was back in the hospital having a fusion of L4/L5/S1. I had 6 screw, a rod and a bone graft done. My doctor stressed the importance of getting up and moving right after surgery which is what I did. Each day I have increased my activities but cannot go a day without pain medication because of severe pain and the presence of a large hematoma the size of a softball in the middle of my spine. Without the medication I know I would be laying in bed in pain and not very active. I have been on 3 different types of pain medication all causing major side effects that I did not want to deal with. Today I started on Ultram and although it is not as strong as the Vicodan, and Darvacet I feel I am in more control of my mind which is important to me. Well so far I am waiting for the day that I am pain free and can say that my fusion was a success like you. Im not sure what my recovery or outcome will be but I am hoping that it is as possitive as yours was and that it will be quick.
My first cervical fusion was in 1988 and involved C5/6 and C6/7. My grafts were taken from my left hip. Until I read the first message today, I didn't even know allograft was an option.
Anyway, like Joan above, the fusion at C6/7 eventually failed. I just had my second surgery about three weeks ago. This time, they fused C4/5 and redid C6/7. Additionally, metat plates were attached to those two areas.
This time, the grafts were taken from my right hip. I assume I will have the same problem there as on my left side. Even after 10 years I get occasional pain and restriction of movement. This is quite confusing to me since I always thought there were no nerves in bones.
Mike
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion - l4-l5-s1 posted by Diane Capps on March 16, 1998 at 14:40:22:
Dear Diane,
Your story is typical of those when the surgical option is the only one offered. How many more surgeries do you think you can tolerate? There will be no end to them till you take charge of learning what options you have never been told.
Use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you have more questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Mult level fusion vs. single level fusion posted by christine martin on March 16, 1998 at 21:41:29:
Dear Christine,
Why do you think you have such a "rotten" spine?
There are reasons that you can do something about.
Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions that are frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write agiain.
Walt
Dave
After one month of adjustments 3Xwk, my chiropractor re-X-rayed my lower back today. He made some drawings with a protractor and figured out that my scoliosis was 3 degrees less curved than before treatment. He seemed surprised that I got that much improvement at my age, but when visually comparing the two X-rays, it was evident that the new one was straighter!
Remembering that our original goal was to treat the colon, I can report some improverment there as well. The abdominal trigger points that have been present since my hysterechtomy in 10/96 have disappeared. Abdominal cramps are few and very mild. I have been off the Asacol for IBS almost 2 weeks now and have had loose bowels twice, but nothing like I was having prior to treatment with Asacol, chiro, and messages. I'm hoping that this trend will continue and improve. Of course, I have practically eliminated all processed carbs. I put a little raw sugar in my iced tea and 1/2 tsp of rice syrup in my green tea (hot). Once in awhile I eat a frozen yogurt. That's it. The rest are meat and steamed veggies, oatmeal, brown rice, eggs and turkey bacon. And lots of purified water.
During the course of the treatment, a problem with my left ITBand got much worse, coinciding with the time I was getting my 6 massages. The last masssage seemed to be the charm. I began to get better after that, the chiropractor stepped up his adjustments on the vertebrae related to that, and as a result, I'm now walking 30min/da without pain.
Besides the adjustments on the low back, the dr. also adjusts my neck and mid back each time. He also uses an activator on my feet every other time, does trigger point therapy and uses a muscle stimulator after each adjustment.
I can now reduce adjustments to twice a week, and will soon go to once a week, etc. I'm not sure what the maintenance protocol will be yet.
Many thanks, Dr. Dave, for your help and encouragement. BTW, I manage to do skilled relaxation 2Xda most days. I think it all adds up
Please don't go away. I may need you again.
Nancy.
I had a single level fusion at c-5 and c-6 which has now collapsed. My doctor has given me the choice of an operation or living with the pain.
What complications could develop if I don't have the operation. Although the pain is very bad at times I think I could live with it if it does not get worse. I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.
Phil
my daughter who is 29 who fell at work and has been in pain for months wass told she needed to get a disc removed and replaced with a metal disc. How dangerous is this operation? Will she have permanent damage and will she be in pain after the operation?
Concerned Mom
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by JaneEllen on March 17, 1998 at 16:09:54:
Dear JaneEllen,
Bravo! You have said it all wonderfully.
My only suggestion would be to reconsider your use of the word "traditional". Conventional medicine is what has been a monopoly in this country for 87 years. To call it "traditional" is not only incorrect, it covers a 100 year FAD in glory it does not deserve.
It is by combining conventional medicine WITH traditional healing philosophies that we will enter into the health care of the 21st century: complementary medicine.
The only problem is that the conventional medical monopoly will have to give up its monopoly in order for this to come to pass. NO monopoly has ever given up its advantage willingly. The fact that the AMA has always been (just announced again last week) the lobby that spends more money than any other organization in the country should tell everyone what a big job is ahead of us.
Thanks for your note. Your use of the word traditional in place of the term conventional is the only thing I would change.
I hope you will continue to share you insights with the rest of us here on the BB.
Walt
I know this may be a little off topic, but I have to have surgery on a ruptured disk. I do not have to have any fusion done, just the ruptured piece removed. I am 25 and healthy. (other than this of course) Do you have any suggestions on what I should do? I am thinking that I will go ahead with it because I cannot live the rest of my life with this pain. Please give me some suggestions....
Thank you
ScoTT
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Elaine Pallace on March 17, 1998 at 23:36:00:
Dear Elaine,
So long as you see surgery as your only option, your future is bleak.
Use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about any spinal condition frequently surgerized. The day will soon come when it wil be malpractice to suggest surgery BEFORE all the other options are evaluated.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
I had a lamnectomy back in Aug of 97 - This week I was told and saw on x-ray that my fusion was absorbing (disappearing). What could cause such a thing to happen?? What kind of treatment could be used to fix it?
In Reply to: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by Michelle on March 19, 1998 at 17:01:51:
Your body is absorbing it because it isn't supposed to be there. Sorry but that is the price we pay for being able to heal. The only way I know of to stop it is to become really unhealthy. This is, of course, not really an option. Some peoples bodies don't respond as well to do what yours is doing. Lucky you huh?
I don't know if chiropractic could help at this point but I would take my x-rays to a local chiro and have them looked at. Many times the area of the problems is due to adaptation from a problem in another area. Treating this other area can provide the correction necessary. Skilled relaxation should be at the top of your list of considerations to decrease the effects of what is about to develop.
Good luck and sorry that I don't have better news.
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Walt Stoll on March 19, 1998 at 13:47:09:
Dear Walt,
I read your comments and I just wanted to inform you that I did try all options prior to my surgery, epidural injections (pain management) steroids, anti-inflamatory drugs and a year of physical therapy before I agreed to have what I felt was my last last option after going to 3 surgeons, a physical therapist, a neurologist, and a physiatrist. And by the way not one of these physicians disagreed that my surgery was needed.
In reading all your comments you suggest that surgery should not be an alternative but when people like me have been in pain for over a year and have exhausted all options prior to surgery, then you should agree that surgery should be an option. I am not so sure why you are so against spinal fusion surgery but when you live with severe disabling pain and cannot perform daily functions, than I feel that a 50/50 change of being helped by having a spinal fusion is the only option left.
It has been 4 weeks since my operation and although I am still in alot of pain I am glad that I had the spinal fusion done and the possibility of it being sucessful was a chance I was willing to take to get my life back and be able to go back to work and be able to function. Pror to this surgery as you suggested my life was bleak.
In Reply to: collapsed fusion posted by Phil on March 18, 1998 at 23:21:57:
I am sorry that you are in pain! I cannot help you but I think I am experiencing a similar situation although my surgeon did not call it a "collapsed fusion". I had an anterior cervical diskectomy with fusion (bone graft from my hip) on Nov. 17, 1997. In January, two weeks after I took off the cervical brace which I had been wearing for 6 weeks 24 hours a day, the bone graft came out of its place. I experienced muscle spasms, shooting pains in my neck (like a knife stabbing me from the inside) and general achiness in the whole upper back/neck area. My surgeon told me to wear the brace which I did for 4 weeks. Then I went to physical therapy (heat, ultrasound, exercise) for 3 weeks. In the past week I have begun to feel almost normal. I get achy at the end of the day and if I'm stressed but I'm working full time so I'm doing pretty well. The surgeon told me the bone piece from the fusion would dissolve (within a year), and that the two vertebrae will eventually fuse on their own by forming scar tissue. I didn't believe him, but it seems to be happening just as he said. He also told me that a diskectomy does not need a fusion to heal. I don't think any of this will help you feel better if you are still in pain, but I thought I would let you know someone out there cares. Perhaps something in my story will help you gain insight to help you heal. Best of luck! Lynn
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Mike Chiarito on March 18, 1998 at 11:14:37:
Dear Mike,
So long as you see SOME kind of surgery as your only option, you have a bleak future. To a hammer, everything liiks like a nail. You are not likely to get any non-surgical recommendations from a surgeon.
We have discussed many of the options (safer & more effective) right here on this BB for years. Use the search feature & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized. You may even have to look in the archives.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: collapsed fusion posted by Lynn on March 19, 1998 at 21:09:20:
Deasr Lynn,
It is likely that surgery is the least of your options.
Walt
In Reply to: collapsed fusion posted by Phil on March 18, 1998 at 23:21:57:
Dear Phil,
Any doc who thinks that your only option is surgery or living with pain, is living in the last century anyhow.
Use the search reature for this BB and read everything yu can find about spinal conditions that are frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Nicole on March 12, 1998 at 14:44:00:
I am eleven months post-op. I had spinal fusion with instrumentation at L5-S1. I am twenty-five, and am extrememly active. I still have some aches and pains, due to nerve damage, but I am able to jog, go jet skiing, take spinning classes, and almost everything else I can think of. I was in so much pain before, that I would have days where I couldn't walk. Now I can finally work out again. The only problem I do have is regaining my flexibility- I'm working on it though.
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by scott parsons on March 19, 1998 at 12:33:50:
Dear Scott,
Use the search feature (including archives) & read everything you can find about spinal conditions that are frequently surgerized. You at least deserve to know your options before submitting to surgery. Those who get worse after surgery (1/3) frequently can no longer use the alternatives successfully.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by Michelle on March 19, 1998 at 17:01:51:
Dear Michele,
This is an example of the fact that surgery does nothing for WHY a spinal condition is occuring. The same causes that produced the lesion, the surgery was designed to deal with, are still present & functioning.
This is a pefect example of why it is so important for any individual to become an expert in all the options BEFORE surgery.
NOW, is the time for you to do just that. Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find aobut spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Elaine on March 19, 1998 at 20:06:38:
Dear Elaine,
I am sorry that you have misinterpreted my many notes about this situation. I have NEVER said that surgery was not an option. However, the world wide statistics (which US docs do not better), of 1/3 get better, 1/3 stay the same and 1/3 get worse, surely tells us that at least 2/3 of cases would do better applying the alternatives first. Whoever told you that you have a "50-50 chance" with the surgery was not telling you the truth. It is 33% positive & 66% negative.
To your statement that you tried "everything" before surgery, the things you mentioned were still all conventional & encompassed but 1/10 of the alterantives I could quote right off the top of my head. It sounds like you tried all the alternatives recommended by the conventional mind-set; which has been notoriously inept at resolving this problem.
I know that you do not like to hear that you have been accepting flawed advice. No one wants to hear that. I am not here to get you to like me. I am just here to try to get people to see better ways of looking at things.
I hope you are one of the 33% positives. HOWEVER, that will still do nothing to prevent the next problem happening. If you have read all the notes about this on this BB alone, you must know that a large % of spinal conditions that had positive surgical results at first, ended up having surgery after surgery in the years after that "success". What do you think causes THAT?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 19, 1998 at 19:51:46:
Thanks for your suggestion. However I was involved in a car accident and a chiro was who i saw first. He didn't see the herniated disk on the x-ray and manipulated my neck dailey for more than two month. I started to get tingling in my my lower legs that soon took over the entire legs up to my waist - which i still have. If i walk for periods of time they get tingling sensation in them. So i have a fear of having any chiro touch me at this point. No one has ever been able to tell me why my legs are this way. I had an MRI done for lumar 2 months after accident. Now with the absorbing of my fusion - I am frustrated!! It will be 2 yrs in October that I've been suffering like this. I can't get any answers from anyone as to what to do. Am very healthy and take calcium, which my ortho never even suggested! I've tried traction, accupuncture, message, chiro, & PT- so far nothing has helped me.
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by Walt Stoll on March 21, 1998 at 11:50:18:
I asked lots of questions prior to my surgery. I have tried traction,accupunture and PT. After my accident I went to see a chiro who didnt see the herniated disk on x-ray. He manipulated my neck. I then began to experience tingling in my lower legs till soon it was the both legs entirely, from waist down.Which i kept telling him it was happening. He sent me for a lumbar MRI which showed nothing (2months after he'd been manipulating). I cannot get any answers to why my legs are like this from anyone. Now with the absorbing of my cervical fusion I am frustrated and still no-one can give me suggestions or help. This problem will be 2 yrs old in October.I also have seen neuro's & othro's.I know I am not crazy and that this problem is VERY real.Even when i went back to ortho to tell him i was still in lots of pain and suggested he take x-ray to ease my mind. That was when he took x-ray and saw and sent me for MRI. I do appreciate your time in responding to me.
I had a lumbar laminectomy in 1987 at L5-L6, due to a herniated disk. Now after years of a normal life, I noticed after swimming a lot of back, hip, and leg pain. It has become progressively worse.
After seeing my neurosurgeon in Christ Hospital in Cincinnat, Ohio, he sent me for MRI and x-rays. Now I'm going to have a diskogram. As I understand it, they inject dye to see if the severe degeneration can be slowed and pain eleviated, by a fusion using hip bone grafts and metal. The pain and spasms are as everyone else has described. It is hard to imagine if it would not work, I think you have to consider it too. I have two children under 10. I hope and pray not to end up in a wheelchair. I am very fearful, even though my doctor is one of the best in the nation.
I was searching for info on spinal fusion and am facing a 4 level discogram April 13. I too have ruputured 2 discs in the last 2 1/2 years and have had 2 spinal surgeries. Now the L-5S1 disc is creating tremendous amounts of pain. Dr's are considering a spinal fusion. How did you make out
Will i benefit greatly from a cervical fusion? I have numbness and tingling in my left arm and 3 fingers, there is also pain involved. I need something done as my arm is growing weaker and I have bad headaches and neck aches.
I had a spinal fusion many years ago in my lower back and it was quite successful
I don't think my last messsage went through so I will start again. My Doctor wants to do a cervical fusion in my neck. I have been having pain in my left arm as well as numbness and tingling in my left hand and 3 fingers. How successful are they? Are there alternatives to surgery? I simply want to feel good again and have a day pain free or without headaches. The MRI shows that I have two herniated discs.
I had a fusion in my low back many years ago and have had relatively few problems since, is it feasible to expect the same from this.
In Reply to: cervical fusion posted by Patty on March 22, 1998 at 16:36:13:
As a chiropractor I see about 1 new patient a week with these same symptoms and "suggestion" by some orthopedist. With a 80-90% success rate I have no qualms about telling you that you should consult a chiropractor before you even think about having surgery. This, coupled with skilled relaxation, should give you the relief you are looking for.
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by Michelle on March 21, 1998 at 19:09:38:
I certainly see your dilemma. Sounds to me like the first chiropractor may have "dropped the ball". Two months without improvement is way outside the guidelines. Seeing disc herniations on x-ray is considered impossible. MRI and CT are the diagnostic tools utilized to "see" the herniation. There are numerous orthopedic and neurologic tests that every chiropractor is supposed to do that would identify the problem as relating to the disc. Just because there is disc buldging doesn't mean that you should not be treated by a chiropractor. On the contrary, one of the best ways to let that disc heal is to create correct biomechanics around that area through chiropractic care.
As I said, I see how difficult you position is, however the analogy I like to use is this one. "I took my car to a mechanic and they didn't fix it right and I paid for nothing so I think all mechanics are a waste of time and I am just going to buy a new car." We all know how illogical this is but sometimes when we walk in unfamiliar territory(such as dealing with chiropractors) we tend to generalize specific types of treatments and outcomes. Just because one Dentist couldn't fill my tooth right would never let me think that the next one wouldn't do a better job.
I think you got a royal stab in the back from the first chiropractor if he was seeing you dailey for two months with little relief let alone a decline in your condition. This is not to say that he didn't try and correct the problem but other circumstances are involved when someone is being milked for insurance money.
There is of course no guarantee that chiropractic CAN resolve the problem but I'm not sure chiropractic actually got a "real" shot at it.
As for the tingling in your legs the most likely scenario in the type of case you have described is that the flexion of the cervical spine compresses the disc and buldges the disc posteriorly into the spinal cord. The ligaments that connect the vertebrae are stretched and the misalignment of the vertebrae remains and therefore the disc is continually compressed backwards toward the cord. It is our idea that if you can restore the vertebrae to the position before the accident thus stopping this abnormal pressure that the disc will heal itself. When you get to the point that legs are tingling you are on the edge between chiropractic and surgery. Without an examination and seeing the MRI's and x-rays I cannot give you more advice than to let a well trusted and reputable chiropractor take a look at you. You are alomst out of options before surgery and for most I would say "hey, you tried chiropractic and you were too far along for us to help so try something else" but in your case it doesn't seem that chiropractic as it should be performed was necessarily given a real chance.
Good luck in whatever you decide and remember that you can't undo surgery. Of course, as you have seen, your body can try to. That should tell you something.
Cervical Disc Herniation:
By: Brock Easterbrook
Date: March 22nd, 1998.
I had a disc removed from between C7-C8, 13 months ago and some of the symptoms have come back and worse. Originally my right arm was extremely sore and a CAT scan revealed a herniation at C7-C8 and a narrowing at C5-C6. After my condition got to the point I couldn't lift up my arm and there was no strength, I was operated on (two months after it first appeared). The Operation which can take two hours was about four and a half as the disc had fragmented and entered my spinal column. I seemed to be recovering slowly but had bouts of pain in my back near the operative area and a numbness in my fingers and toes every three to four weeks. Now my fingers on both hands and toes on both feet are throbing and the pain is getting worse. A new Cat scan in November did not show any thing, according to my neurosurgeon, and a neck X-Ray was ordered. I have a pretty demanding job physically and this has made it almost impossible to continue working. I am 43 years old 6'4" and wieght 210 lbs. I have not had a MRI. I don't even know what that involves but I wonder if it would show anything different. I fear that my condition is going to get worse if something is not done. I wondered if the other narrowing disc (C5-C6) could be causing this. Why would the nerve roots at C8 be still compromised. Is there any other forms of therapy other than surgery, I would try anything at this point. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your assistance,
Brock Easterbrook
I had an anterior cervical diskectomy and fusion on C5 and C6 two years ago. When I awoke from the surgery, my right eye was completely closed (couldn't open it). Eventually it opened but never to the same extent as it was before. My general doctor said this is called Horner's Syndrome (symptoms: Drooping eyelid/non-dilating pupil)and was caused by my surgery since both eyes were completely fine before the surgery and I had no problems with them until immediately after the surgery. Is this a common risk?
Thank you...I appreciate your help.
Bernadette Kubicki
In Reply to: Cervical disc operation posted by Brock Easterbrook on March 22, 1998 at 20:57:36:
1. There is no C8 vertebrae. Only if someone is born with an extra cervical does it exist. You probably are talking aobut C7-T1. In any case a C8 nerve root does exist and this is where it emerges.
2. Find a neurologist completely independant of your case. Not a referral. Just do what you have to in order to find a good one. One suggestion on doing this is to call a couple chiropractors in your area and ask who they suggest. They will know of good neurologists who are not "knife happy". A neurologist will surely order an MRI and find out what is pressing on your spinal cord as this is what is likely causing this large number of symptoms. If you stick within the "ring" of doctors you are in you will get few answers because everyone will stick up for everyone elses mistakes. You have to get to an independent party. A neurolgoist not an orthopedist.
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by Michelle on March 21, 1998 at 19:21:32:
Dear Michele,
If you will take the time to use the search feature of this BB (as well as the archives) you will begin to see what a small slice of you options you actually learned about.
Let us hope that the "accident" was the only cause and you don't have to face this problem in the future again & again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cervical disc operation posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 23, 1998 at 08:36:25:
Thank you for your response to my problem, I guess I misunderstood the difference between the nerve root and the area that was operated on, thank you for clearing that up.
Also your advice on the neurologist is good except that I live in Canada (B.C.) and because of our health system I am limited to who "will" see me without some kind of referral. I do appreciate the input and I will look up a Chiropracter to see if he can direct me another way.
Thank You,
Brock Easterbrook
In Reply to: Re: Cervical disc operation posted by Brock Easterbrook on March 23, 1998 at 16:50:55:
Even if you have to ask for a referral by your family physician you should find someone you want to go to and take that name to the family physician and "nicely" demand a referral. I rarely see an MD not give the referral if the patient asks something like "aren't neurologists specifically trained for cases like mine?"
Best Wishes
In Reply to: Re: Cervical disc operation posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 23, 1998 at 18:24:11:
Thank you for your advice, I will try that angle. I think sometimes someone has to tell us we have the right to question our own health care. Thank you for your encouragement. I'll post a new article if there is any news.
Brock
In Reply to: cervical fusion posted by Patty on March 22, 1998 at 16:36:13:
I have the exact same problem and symtoms numbness you
name it.I have found some relief with vicodin and now my
doc tells me ,If I dont have surgery he wont continue to treat me.
I have 5 herniated disks and dont want the surgery
In Reply to: Re: cervical fusion posted by Raymond Novara on March 23, 1998 at 20:49:12:
Get a new Dr.
Get two, and consider making one of them a chiropractor.
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by J.L. on March 22, 1998 at 10:09:48:
Dear J.L.,
So long as the only options you consider are surgical, this will not be the only "recurrence" of spinal problems you will have to deal with in the future.
You may have the best surgeon in the world. However, "to a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
If you are interested in what the world medical literature has to say about options you are not being offered, first use the search feature provided for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Jackie on March 22, 1998 at 15:25:04:
Dear Jackie,
Use the search feature provided with this BB and read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized. The day will come when it is considered malpractice to suggest surgery until the more effective, cheaper & safer options have been utilized.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Patty Read on March 22, 1998 at 16:25:52:
Dear Patty,
If your previous surgery was so successful why are you now in a position of needing it in another part of your spine?
This is EXACTLY what I have been talking about on the internet for the last 6 years. If one only deals with the symptoms of ANY spinal lesion (by covering it up with surgery alone) the basic causes will eventually produce ANOTHER lesion for the surgeon to surgerize. Of course, if this is the only thing considered this time, the next lesion will come sooner next time. What a dismal future to look ahead to.
Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequestly surgerized. Please note the archives as well.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Cervical disc operation posted by Brock Easterbrook on March 22, 1998 at 20:57:36:
Dear Brock,
Congratulations on your beginning to think for yourself.
Use the search feature provided for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized (look at the archives too).
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Bernadette Kubicki on March 22, 1998 at 21:09:53:
Dear Bernadette,
Not common but well known. Just one of the many things not told the prospective patient prior to surgery. If EVERYONE really knew the risks, many fewer would opt for the surgery before trying the more effective, safer & cheaper options for these spinal conditions. Why do you think surgeons do not take the time to tell pre-operative patients? Surely, they make enough money that they could take the time.
If you will take the time to use the search feature for this BB, & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized, you will see all the options that no one even mentioned to you. Also look at the archives.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cervical disc operation posted by Walt Stoll on March 24, 1998 at 11:47:11:
Dr. Stoll:
The problem is that my generation was brought up to respect and "obey" a Doctor's order, because they are the one's with the education and experience. However as we all now realize, service to humanity is not the primary motivation for some going into this profession. Money, and covering one's hind end is.
Thank you and I will keep the forum posted,
Brock
I got my MRI back and my doc is out of town so i picked up x-ray and report at hospital. This is what it says. At the C5-6 intervertebral disc level there is a narrowing of the intervertebral disc space and possible bony fusion at this level. There is however, residual (????) extradural defect of the C5-6 level which may be due to a combination of bluging anulus fibrosis and bony spur. This causes mild to moderat effacement of the ventral aspect of the thecal sac but does not abut or compress the spinal cord. Appreciate any interpetation you can give me.....Thanks
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on March 22, 1998 at 20:24:17:
Thanks again for taking the time to answer me. I really do appreciate it!
In Reply to: Can you tell me what this means??? posted by Michelle on March 25, 1998 at 02:45:21:
I means you have a bad neck. The degeration at the C5-6 level is to the point that the cushion between the bones(the disc) is almost completely worn out. The C5-6 vertebrae are starting to fuse together. The edges of the vertebrae fuse first as they already have boney spurs on them that came during the degeneration of the disc. Since these spurs are on the edges that includes the back edge where the spinal cord passes. The concern where they say " moderat effacement of the ventral aspect of the thecal sac" is about whether or not it is pushing on the spinal cord.
The better question once you understand it all is how did it get this way and how do I keep other levels from doing the same thing.
Biomechanical changes(abnormal changes) that put abnormal pressure on the discs is what wears them out. These abnormal vertebrae positions can come from trauma(everything from birth to car wrecks), thoughts(tension and stress), and toxins(cause variances in muscle tension that pull vertebrae out of alignment). The misalignment and fixation of these vertebrae cause the disc to wear out much faster than if the joint was working properly. In chiropractic we try to keep things lines up and functioning at an optimum level. Some cases are almost too advanced for significant "cure" but a decrease in symptoms and prevention of multiple levels of degeneration are almost always possible. Without stopping the degeneration, nerve roots and spinal cord tissue can be compressed and a wide variety of conditions can present.
Good Luck with whatever you decide to do but hopefully this will spark a few questions for you to ask your doc when he gets back. Realize, as Dr. Stoll can attest to, that he is likely ignorant of what benefits chiropractic can have for you and, in fact, may have political pressure on him to NOT refer you outside the "medical" realm.
A year ago I began seing my primary Dr. for shoulder and neck pain. He kept giving me pain pills and anti-inflamitories till I said NO MORE PILLS, this isn't fixing it. I than had a MRI which the neurosrgeon wasn't pleased with the results so I than had a mylogram and a CT. The Dr. ruled out surgery which I was relieved about I wasdiagnosed with Cervical Radiculopathy which I am really not even sure what that is try as the Dr. may to explain it. But we began cervical epidural steriod injections in a series of three. I just had my last one yesterday. Afte the first one I felt some relief for about a week and a half, but since the 2nd and 3rd. no relief at all. Is it a matter of time before I'll get relief or will ther cervical fusion surgery become nessesary? If so how long is the recovery period as I am concerned about my job, and how succesful is this surgery? I guess i should tell you I have a herniated disc between c5 and c6 with spurs (what ever they are) Any information would be appreshiated. Tina
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by JaneEllen on March 17, 1998 at 16:09:54:
what is this holistic sstuff your talking about? I have a herniated disc between C-5 and C-6 (with spurs) what ever they are. I had an mMRI, A Mylogram and CT and just finished a series of cervial epidural injections and it doesn't seem to help the pain in my neck. I am willing to try anything but my neurogerson said to stay away from chiropractors after , I might add I saw one for months. Any excorsies or non intrusive help you can suggest for pain management would be appreshiated.
In Reply to: cervical raduculopathy posted by Tina on March 26, 1998 at 11:28:35:
Get copies of your MRI and take them to a well known chiropractor in your area. The problem you have has a very high success rate with chiropractic. It is against "the rules" for your medical doctor to tell you that. Only MD's like Dr. Stoll are willing to admit limitations and point people in the right direction. Use the search of this BB for "fusion" and back pain in general and you will pick up some more info. Essentially you need to get out of the three ring circus you are in. They are doping you up until it gets to the point of surgery. Don't let that happen. Find a chiropractor TODAY and get some more in depth explanation as to what is CAUSING the problem and how to fix it.
Be Well.
In Reply to: Can you tell me what this means??? posted by Michelle on March 25, 1998 at 02:45:21:
Dear Michele,
This report says to me that you have many options other than surgery at this time. If you have read the other notes about these kind of problems on this BB (by using the search feature & archives) you know by now what those options are.
There ARE surgeons who would recommend surgery from this report. However, remember: to a hammer everything looks like a nail.
If you do not hear from Doc Dave about this report, in a few days, write it again & put his name in the title so as to attract his attention.
Your report means that this problem has been going on for a long time and that there is no immediate danger of it affecting your spinal cord. Likely, arthritis has as much to do with your symptoms as any disc problem.
Doing something about your chronic bracing would do you more good in the long run than anything else. In the meantime,you need to learn about your other options while you are waiting for the skilled relaxation to work.
Walt
In Reply to: cervical raduculopathy posted by Tina on March 26, 1998 at 11:28:35:
Dear Tina,
LISTEN TO DOC DAVE!
The day will come when it will be considered malpractice for any physician to treat what you have without having you see a Chiropractor in consultation first. The only reason that is not the standard of practice right now is that the AMA is doing everything it can to hold onto their monopoly over disease care in this country. They are desperately "trying to force the health care camel through the eye of the allopathic needle". By doing so, the AMA is proving every day that it exists for the benefit of the MD rather than for the benefit of the patient.
If, by the slight chance that your Chiropractor doesn't resolve this problem, I would consider Rolfing next. In either case, I would learn how to do an effective skilled relaxation technique and practice it at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring). This is the only thing I know of that would prevent this from happening again in the future.
If you have more questions, write again. I hope you will share your experiences (as you get well) with the BB participants. Every day, people are being surgerized for your condition when it is nearly always unnecessary.
Walt
Dear Dr Stoll;
Recently I broke my leg in ski accident. I used to take glucosamime and chondroitin sulfate. Should I continue taking these supplements and what would be effect on healing process ?
Thak you,
AB
In Reply to: broken bones posted by Andre Biel on March 27, 1998 at 13:30:16:
Dear Andre,
Depending where the bones are, there can be some pretty exotic things than can & should be done.
ANY bone would heal faster if one took hydroxyapatite, zinc & vitamin C in high doses during the healing phase.
Certainly the glucosamine can't hurt. However, I have seen no research indicating the promotion of healing fractures with this substance. Your veterinarian might know of some.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
I am the person that was begging for help with my back having had a fusion that didn't take. One thing that I have found out is that I was a smoker at that time of surgery and after that healing at the fusion site is poor and also that
75%of our upper body rests on L-5... is this true Doctors?
anyway ...I have been working with pain management an this has been highly sucessful, then my left knee starting paining me incredibly thinking it was from my back but finding out that it was chewed up cartilage behind the patella. I allowed my back doctor(an orthpedic surgeon)
perform surgery on my knee exactly a week ago and as of today have more pain in my knee, leg, and thigh than I was experiencing before. Besides doing pain management, not having access to a swimming pool, how long before my Chiropractor can adjust my leg and knee and what can I do to rehabilitate my knees???
In Reply to: Arthoscopic Knee Surgery posted by Patricia Worth on March 17, 1998 at 22:45:05:
An evalution of your knee by the chiropractor would be the best way to know when it is OK to treat. I have not seen enough post operative patients with this to give you a good idea but would imagine that it is OK to treat right now. As far as rehab you have to understand that unless things are "lined up right" any knee use could lead you down the wrong direction and cause more degenration. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
In Reply to: Arthoscopic Knee Surgery posted by Patricia Worth on March 17, 1998 at 22:43:42:
Dear Pat,
I appreciate your mentioning the smoking. I do not think I emphasize this enough. Smoking not only hastens ALL degenerative conditions but retards any healing post surgery.
By the way, high doses of vitamin C, E and Zinc have all proven effective in accelerating post surgical recovery.
I guess I just assume that the other docs have finally caught on to this (smoking connection) thing & I can move on to other things. I started teaching this more than 20 years ago when I was called a quack for mentioning it.
Thanks, Walt