Hello, my name is Richard and I am A massage therapist. my question is does cranial sacrel therapy help spinal stenosis in the lumbar region?
In Reply to: Spinal stenosis posted by Richard R LeFevre LMT on April 01, 1998 at 14:26:54:
Dear Richard,
First, I would like you to know that I think you have a more healing profession than any MD.
I am not a cranial therapist. I only know enough about it to have a pretty good idea if it might be indicated in any chronic condition.
Start by calling (317) 594-0411 and asking them your question. They could at least point you in the right direction. Let us know what you learn.
MY take would be that the Cranio-sacral manipulation would improve symptoms for a while but would do nothing about the actual progress of the boney stenosis.
Walt
Ha! I'm back! First of all, I was finally able to order your book! Four of them to be exact.
Secondly,granted, I've been gone the majority of the time this month. And very difficult to reach. However, I have called my doctor more times than I can count with no response. Even while I was out of town, I would leave my cell number and the hotel number..again with no response.
On Thursday I was at one of our offices all day. I called the doctor FOUR times. Again, with no response. Finally, I asked the girl "What do I have to do to get help?". She told me to call patient relations.
I did so and she looked me up on the computer and found that not only did I have the three vertabre fractures..but I had been APPROVED for my MRI since FEBRUARY!
Needless to say, I was FURIOUS! I obviously changed doctors, the new one is Board Certified in Internal Medicine and is with the same medical center as the former. I saw her yesterday and she has me scheduled for my MRI on Tuesday.
If it comes back negative on the disc damage, I can start Chiro right away, Right? Also, she was concerned that my back broke so easily. She's running tests for Osteoporosis (sp?). Also, on my thyroid. Why the thyroid?
Anyway, Glad to be back. Hopefully, my boss will let me stay in town for a few weeks.
Take Care,
Terrie
BTW, I absolutely love my new doctor. She is as different from the old one as day is from night. The old one NEVER even looked at my back.
The new one not only looked at it but she felt it and put me through all kinds of manipulations to see what I could and could not do. She is also concerned about my neck, through the testing she did, she felt something might be wrong there as well. She has scheduled x-rays for me.
I actually feel like she cares. I'm in good hands at last.
Thanks Walt, I'm looking forward to your book getting here.
Take Care,
Terrie
In Reply to: Oh..*g* And one more thing.. posted by Terrie on April 04, 1998 at 13:07:39:
Dear Terrie,
I have no advice to give but just want to tell you that I care. I had some back trouble and pain and felt very frustrated. I had to DEMAND to have an MRI and I my disc was slightly compressed but I did not have fractures. I just took good care of myself and after 2 years it got much better. Now I hardly notice it at all. Physical Therapy in the beginning made it more painful.
I think it is wonderful how you fired your doctor, found a better one and how you are investigating the credentials of them both. I truly hope the best for you.
Wishing the best for you,
pamela
In Reply to: Walt...Dave posted by Terrie on April 04, 1998 at 12:13:43:
Sounds like a real run around you recieved.
Yes, you should be able to start chiropractic care even if there IS disc damage. It depends on the amount of damage and the best way to know is to show the chiropractor the MRI as you will not get an honest answer from your MD, no matter how nice they seem. Too much competition and lack of understanding.
As for testing for osteoporosis, that is a good idea in so much as it could give you some insight on the bone density and lead you to natural means of strengthening it. The reason for testing the thyroid has to do with the hormonal abnormalities that they may find. Dr. Stoll can elaborate much more than I on these tests.
Regarding the first Dr., if you don't push the issue of how you were treated then the next patient will recieve more of the same. Complain to as many people above him, and below, as you can. Rosa Parks probably never thought she could do anything to change the situation for everyone either.
In Reply to: Re: Walt...Dave posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on April 04, 1998 at 14:54:36:
Dave,
Thank you for your comments. I have to admit that I was so angry when I was told that I had been approved for the MRI since February, that I was literally shaking.
I fully intend to write letters to the AMA, the California State Board, Facey Medical Foundation and my insurance company. But, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he never gets called on the capet. I have a strong feeling that it'll be a case of "the good ol' boy" system.
When I went in to see a chiropractor, it was soon after it happened. At that time, I couldn't walk without help, shave my legs or paint my toenails. He was probably concerned about liability. And in this day of litigation, who can blame him?
I am so much better now. Now my problems are at night after working all day, opening some doors, lifting things, reaching for things and obviously I can't twist around at all. Backing up in my car is interesting..*lol*. Wanna go for a ride?
I still don't understand what my hormones have to do with anything.
Thank You and Stay Healthy!
Terrie
In Reply to: Oh..*g* And one more thing.. posted by Terrie on April 04, 1998 at 13:07:39:
I was a Wallpaper Hanger for 20 years, and during that time I could never have made it if not for Chiropractic help. I herniated a disk and could ONLY lie flat. I saw my Dr. twice a day for a week, then once a day for a week, and then three times, etc. etc. I was back to work (cautiously) in two weeks. I still had alot of pain at the end of the day, but when you are self-employed you have to do what you have to do. My point is, I did it without drugs or being knocked out or made stupid. Ice packs and Valiaren Root became my best friends....didn't go to bed without them. It was probably 6 months until I was totally pain free, but it got better each day. IT WORKS!!
In Reply to: Oh..*g* And one more thing.. posted by Terrie on April 04, 1998 at 13:07:39:
Terrie, one more thing...I was AMAZED at the difference in my adjustments if I drank the water I should during the day. And especially just before an adjustment. It really helps strengthen your muscles.....massage really helps too.
Just a thought.
In Reply to: Oh..*g* And one more thing.. posted by Terrie on April 04, 1998 at 13:07:39:
Dear Terrie,
Congratulations on finding a better doc. I would at least combine the expertise of this new doc WITH a chiropractor of equal expertise. There are differences between the competence of chiropractors just as there between MDs.
For a much more complete approach ANYONE would need both an MD AND a Chiropractor for MANY chronic conditions-----not just back injuries.
Walt
I am concerned about a friend of mine. She was in a car accident that really messed up her back. She is only 21 years old with a 2 year old child. Her doctors have done several tests and they tell her she needs this operation. Because of her age and because she needs to care for her young son, I'm worried that this operation will do more harm than good. Do you have any suggestions that I could pass on to her?
hey folks with bad backs, can i join the club ? I had
spinal fusion L5,S1 with use of "BAK" method..its been
7 weeks since the surgery..i do feel some relief in one
sense but also devoloped new and worse pain..when they
took bone they severed a nerve in left leg so i dont have
feeling from my hip to my knee (skin only) it got worse
in my left leg..the doctor says it might be permenant.
is this true ? i still have pinching and severe aching
and cant stand for longer than 10 minutes. my legs are
really tight..LOOKING FOR OTHER ALTERNATIVES ? CAN YOU
HELP...DEN
In Reply to: Spinal Fusion posted by Amy Mays on April 07, 1998 at 20:33:28:
I had a bad riding accident when I was 15 years old. Back surgery should only be considered as a last resort . I have now lived with my back problem for 30 years. I had a badly slipped disc which due to age can no longer be corrected with traction.Since then my affected vertebrae have been fusing. It is painful, but the pain can be minimised with exercises to strengthen the back muscles.
If you need details on the exercises, you may e-mail me and I shall try to help. Zarin.
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion posted by Zarin on April 08, 1998 at 06:44:14:
Zarin, how do you know the vertebrae have been fusing? I have read this will sometimes occur naturally, and have been trying to learn if this happens frequently or rarely. I am eagerly waiting for it to happen to me, as I have DDD and the lower 2 disks are virtually gone. I'm wondering if I should consider surgery or hope the bones fuse naturally before getting too painful. I believe my problem dates from some construction work I did 30 years ago, and probably ruptured the disks then. While it didn't bother me for many years, that's the only thing I can blame it on. If anyone has information on this natural fusion in the spine, I'd sure like to hear it.
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion posted by Gerry on April 08, 1998 at 16:02:22:
Gerry, You ned to have a CT Scan done(CAT Scan) They scan the affected segment in great detail and the fusion can be seen. In my case, the disc has "settled" outside the vertebrae column and my L5 and S(cant remember the number) are fusng together. It results in a more limited movement as bending becomes harder. When I erercise I also wear a SECORAL BELT. Once you have establieshed which vertebrae are affected, you can then get an appropriate belt from the pharmacy.
What is DDD?
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion posted by Gerry on April 08, 1998 at 16:02:22:
Fusion can be seen on x-ray and even better on CT.
DDD(degenrative disc disease) is a direct result of abnormal wear on the disc. If more damage is occuring than can be repaired the disc begins to thin. Things that contribute to this are spinal dysfunction, poor nutrition, and too much hard damn work.
Discs alone do nothing. It takes an outside force to create the problem. As a chiropractor I can see the progression that spinal dysfunction has on the disc. Imagine two boards that are parallel on a baloon. The pressure of the boards cause a "smashing" of the balloon. When lay down to sleep the balloon(disc) repairs. If there is more damage during the day than can be repaired at night the disc, over time, will become thinner and thinner. If the boards on this balloon are NOT parallel then much more damage is done due to the angle of pressure. The balloon does not wear evenly and the body is rarely able to keep up with the damage. With this angle of pressure the central portion of the disc (nucleus pulposis) is forced sideways and can protrude through the outer layers of the disc (annulus) and can result in a disc buldge. The bone of the vertebrae above and below begin to proliferate to support the area and disc that is now emerging beyond the edge of the vertebral endplate. These bony protrusions are the spurs/arthritis that is forming.
Natural fusion usually will not occur in person who is active as they keep the area mobile.
I have loads of x-rays of lubmar spines with little disc wear and little spurring of older people who have had good diets, low stress, and lifetime chiropractic maintenance. I have even more, of course, of people who have not followed these lifestyles that have a lot of degernation. In 99% of these people the non parallel vertebrae can be easily seen on x-ray. Those who don't have the degeneration have vertebrae that ARE parallel.
Chiropractic, proper nutrition, skilled relaxation, and taking it easy on yourself are the answers I have found to the DDD problem.
I would like any comments or questions!
I am a photographic lab manager using machines which have required me to look constantly down while raising my right hand and arm to shoulder level between 600-900x a day.
I experienced over time a tightness in my shoulders and a "cracking" sound when rotating my neck. It took about a year to really experience pain which radiated down my right arm and would not let me work with out getting up every 15 minutes or so. I also became so knotted in my right shoulder it felt like a baseball under my skin. Same with the muscles in the back and top of my neck, I sometimes look like a hunchback with my neck muscles all pulling on the right. I went to my primary care physician who perscribed physical thearapy and also was told it should be a workmans comp case. The workmans comp insurance co. had me go to see an orthopedic surgeon who did some x-rays. He didn't see any thing on them and said to keep with the physical thearpy and see him back in 4 weeks. I went to another orthopedic surgeon specializing in upper extremities who didnt like the first x-rays and did more. He told me it looked like my cervical spine was straighting and maybe had a herniated cervical disc and sent me for an MRI. On reading the MRI no herniated disc was seen and he diagnised me with degenerative cervical disc disease. He told me to continue with my physical thearapy for the remaing 2 weeks then go back and see my primary care physician, as he was an orthopedic surgeon and I was not a canadate for surgery. I feel that I an getting the run around and after 2 months of physical thearpy and on restricted work duty of no more than 2 hours a day, only feel that my shoulder is only slightly better and my neck is worse. I sleep on a buckwheat pillow and sometimes wake up feeling like my neck is going to crack off the rest of my body. Is there anything else I can be doing or can I be misdiagnosed? Should I be seeing a different kind of doctor like a ciropractor? My boss-also owner is getting very aggrivated as we are a small company of only 2 workers and not much gets done. Also I would like to get my strength back and not be in constant pain. Can any one give any suggestions? Thank you!
In Reply to: degenerative cervical disc disease posted by Rachel Johnson on April 09, 1998 at 19:34:37:
Of course I am going to say that you should go see a chiropractor. As Dr. Stoll has stated, this "run around" you are getting, instead of being sent to a chiropractor, will one day be considered malpractice.
For one thing how can you be diagnosed with cervical DDD if there is no degeneration noted? You are in the earliest stages of what can become DDD.
Obviously the repeated cervical flexion with work is not helping. However, there are people who do this all day with no problems. So whats the difference between them and you? It's the rotation and lateral tipping of the cervical vertebrae in question causing the abnormal pressure on the disc(same phenomenon that I describe in the "spinal fusion" thread below. It's this flexion combined with the other problems that causes the disc to buldge, temporarily putting pressure on the nerve roots that lead into the upper extremities. There are definetly irritations to the posterior joints as well, noted by the immediate increase in muscle tension you have. When you lie down for things like the MRI the pressure on the disc stops and the disc bulge "goes back in".
Chiropractic, skilled relaxation, and possibly massage will do the trick for 90% of the population.
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on April 09, 1998 at 13:49:57:
Oops, I seem to have gotten a message without a message on the board, sorry.
Thank you for explaining DDD. As a result of my injuries I have spondolysis of the neck and back but am coping very well without any medication. A lot has to do with mind over matter. Zarin
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Denny on April 08, 1998 at 01:58:37:
Dear Den,
There ARE more effective options than surgery in nearly every case. Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about any spinal condition frequently surgerized. THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
Dear Gerry & Beth,
I am currently 18 days post-op spinal fusion for a failed laminectomy and degenerative, arthritic changes where the discs had collapsed and what nucleus pulposus that had been left in the L4-L5 had re-herniated and the L5-S1 was literally bone on bone. I have no hardware. My surgeon took a graft of bone from my right iliac crest and sliced it up into "matchstick" grafts. He only fused the L4-L5 level since the L5-S1 was already bone on bone it will fuse itself. I was hospitalized for 4 days and discharged to home with a walker and a brace. I had skin clips/staples in my wounds instead of regular sutures since it was a "re-do" and due to the scar tissue from the previous surgery. The brace seems to sit or rest on my graft site wound and is pretty uncomfortable. My surgeon will have me wear my brace for 4 months and then begin a 4 month physical therapy. Due to the fact that my brace wasn't ordered when it was supposed to be I was not up out of bed until the 2 day post-op. I have gained strength by leaps and bounds with every passing day and its hard to keep me in bed, but the doctor wants me to only sit up for no longer than 30 min. at a time, but its okay to walk with the brace on. The problem with the brace was causing the graft wound to look pretty bad and painful, so my doc said to just use common sense and leave the brace off until the wound heals better and let my pain be my guide as to being up and about. It has been pretty rough, but the worse is behind me (I hope). I thought since I had had previous back surger I knew more or less to expect, but I was sure wrong! This is really a difficult thing to go through for the patient as well as the patient's family. I find myself getting frustrated because I want to be more active, but just cannot do that just yet. I somedays seem to take 1 step forward and 1 1/2 steps back. I feel good so I find myself up and about and before I realize it I've overdone it and that makes me angry. What can I say? Its just a difficult ordeal no matter how well you do postoperatively.
I am looking for any info anyone may share about their postoperative/recovery period. I heard from a friend that her husband had physical therapy for 2 years after surgery and saw no improvement until his doctor finally tried hydro-therapy and the difference was like night and day. I'm not completely sure what hydro-therapy involves except probably exercises in water and swimming. I will welcome any responses and I would be happy to correspond with anyone that may have info on recuperation or anyone facing spinal fusion. Thank you.
Good Luck,
Marsha
In Reply to: Re: degenerative cervical disc disease posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on April 09, 1998 at 21:58:18:
David,
Thank you for responding back! Am I not doing this posting right? I do not see that Dr. Stoll has desponded back to me and you quoted him on the run around thing. What you said makes total sense. I usually feel much better while lying down. Now my physical therapyst has been doing ultrasound, nerve therapy, traction, massage, cervical manipulation, stretching and stregthing exercises. How should I go about getting a correct diagnosis. I also have a feeling that I am going to have to quit my job because of this and that even if I go into another field this might continue to bother me. What can be done to correct this, or is this something that will not get better and will always be with me? I am a very outdoorsy person and the thought that I may not be able to do the things I am used to doing is scary. Will I be going for massages the rest of my life?
I am worried about the quantity of over the counter pain reliver I am taking 4-6 a day sometimes. The Relafin anti-inflamitory I have been given dosn't seem to be doing anything. Thanks for ever thing!
Rachel Johnson
In Reply to: Re: degenerative cervical disc disease posted by Rachel Johnson on April 11, 1998 at 11:28:36:
1. You are doing this right. I quoted Dr. Stoll from earlier discussions.
2. Do not let a physical therapist do manipulations on your cervical spine. I can't stress this enough. For as much benefit as can occur there is double the damage that can occur. Physical therapists are not trained in manipulation outside taking extra curricular courses.
3. A recent study showed that 61% of the patients with low back pain were worse off after seeing a PT for one week than those who did nothing at all for the problem. I think PTs mean well and are good people. The problems is that their activities are fueled by the medical machine and not by what actually works. The US Department of Health & Human Services, in their ACHPR guidlines for physicians regarding low back pain, specifically stated that the benefits of PT, of which there are few, have not proven to outweigh the costs. They were even harder on traction. Manipulative therapy got the thumbs up. The massage is about the best thing that you are having done right now.
4. No you don't need to quit your job yet. You need to get to someone who can correct the problem and not just move things around and stretch them out. Is it possible that you will ever have to quit your job. Of course, anything is possible.
5. One more time cause it's making me ill for you. DON'T let your PT manipulate your neck. There's a 1 in a million(literally) chance that cervical manipulation can cause a stroke. Have it done by someone who has spent their life learning specifically when and how to do it, not someone who means well and has taken a weekend course on it. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear Rachel,
I always wait 48 hours before responding because that gives people like Doc Dave a chance to resolve the problem without my having to do it. I am trying to keep up with an average of 60 requests a day. Many things can be easily resolved by people that know more than I do, about a particular problem, who are helping with the BB. FOR THIS PROBLEM, DOC DAVE IS BETTER THAN I.
This is exactly the kind of problem that no conventional physician should even attempt to treat. In the long run, you will have to learn & practice an effecttive skilled relaxation technique 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring) to keep this from coming back.
For now, listen to Doc Dave. Consider Rolfing or a series of deep, whole body, therapeutic massage (3 times a week for 2 weeks) which would give you very significant temporary relief.
As you get well, please take the time to share your experiences with us here on the BB. This is exactly the kind of problem that is unnecessary & must not be allowed to progress to the place where actual bony damage is occuring.
If you want to see the breadth of causes & solutions to problems like yours, you might use the search feature provided with this BB and read as much as you can stand about spinal conditions. THEN, if you still have questions, ask away.
Walt
I have had 2 laminectomies at L5-S1, and still have no relief. I have had a doctor suggest having a fusion done, but I am very leary of having another surgery. I would love to hear pros and cons of this type of surgery.
Thanks,
Rochelle
Where did you have your surgery done and what doctor did it? I am also 25 and am still in a lot of pain and am seriously considering having a fusion at L5-S1
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Marsha McLeod on April 10, 1998 at 16:59:58:
Dear Marsha,
The exact same things that were options BEFORE surgery are even more important AFTER surgery. The only thing is that after surgery, you will be unable to do some of them. The longer you go, the fewer options you will have.
Your best bet would be to use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized. You will not only learn the answers to your present questions but how to prevent the next one AND likely how you could have prevented your present surgery.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Walt Stoll on April 12, 1998 at 12:26:55:
Dear Walt,
Thank you for your kind response, I appreciate your time and knowledge. I am confused about where you say I could have prevented my most recent surgery. First, I am a nurse and I do know exactly what I did wrong in lifting to herniate the L4-l5 the first time, but I actually did not realize that another surgery in the future was a possilbility becuase my doctor told me that "we scooped out all of the nucleus pulposus." My present physician has explained that it is rather difficult to "scoop out ALL of the nucleus pulposus" and that my previous surgeon definately did not remove all of it. Over the past 3-4 years I have developed osteoarthritis particularly painful and bothersome in my hands and feet. In mid December I developed an increasingly painful low backache which with time (a couple of months)it soon became unbareable. I know of nothing that I did to cause this condition. A plain x-ray of my lumbar area revealed arthritis with ostophyte formation and upon viewing the films the l4-L5 & L5-S1 discs had collapsed towards the back. The L4-L5 clearly showed a herniation at the L4-L5 level with a very small disc space. The L5-S1 literally has no disc space and you can clearly see the jagged bone/arthritis where previous x-rays showed the vertebrae to be smooth without defects. My question is: Is there a way to prevent the arthritis? Again, thank you for your time and kindness.
Sincerely,
Marsha McLeod
Please help me. I am a 36 year old woman who was in excellent shape until a car accident in June 95. Since then I have had surgery on my left knee (cartlidge removed) and left thoracic outlet decompression surgery. I have been told that I require right thoracic outlet decompression and that I have a herniated disc (c5) in my neck which needs to be removed. My symptoms are numbness in the hands and feet and pain down both arms and legs. I fall frequently, my leg just seems to go out from underneath me. This only occurs on one side at a time, meaning that the same arm and leg are affected at the same time I get headaches up the back of the head on the same side. When I fall, the pain and symptoms can switch from one side to another. When I bend my neck backward the symptoms appear in both legs at the same time..
I have been told that the disc is moderately compressing the spinal cord. I have been told that if I fall the wrong way or get jolted that I may end up paralized. Until recently, I have stopped taking all pain medications. After some bad flare ups, I have been to the hospital and been unable to move my arms and legs. Until recently, I have been able to use relaxation therapy to control the pain and sypmtoms. About 4 weeks ago after a fall I have started to have severe headaches and have completely passed out on 6 different occasions. When I stand up, I am light headed and dizzy. My family doctor has checked by blood preassure while I do this and it goes down 25 points. Do I need the disc removed with fusion as suggested by3 different neurosurgeons?
Please E-Mail me back I need help.
Donna Di Cristofaro
55 Belmont Drive
Brampton, Ontario
L6T 2K5
dear doctor
i was hurt at work 4 years ago.as a result of my injury
i developed bone spurrs and a compressed nerve.
i have been taking vicodin es on and off since my injury.
my pain has become much more intence over the past few months and the vicodin is NOT working at all anymore
my doctor is conserned that i'm going to abuse the medecation so i dont want to say anything about the pills not working.....What can i do ?
please e-mail me at XSPACEJUNK@AOL.COM
thank you
jj getzz
Dr. Stoll,
Is spinal fusion a good way to go, if I have had to
lamenectomys in the same disc area L5-S1?
I'm in pretty much constant pain, especially after sleeping.
Which is enterrupped several times at night.
A Dr. Vance Gardner wants to perform the surgery, but after two lammenectomys that have re-herniaed, I'm a little gun shy. Please let me know what you suggest.
Regards,
Chuck Moore - Anaheim, CA
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Marsha McLeod on April 13, 1998 at 11:20:01:
Dear Marsha,
I am sure that you know that your spinal problems were not caused ONLY by that lift. If they were, EVERYONE who did that ift would get the same problem. WHY YOU?
I am sure that you also know that the arthritis in your hands & feet was not caused by your back "injury".
Look at the list of stuff you mentioned in this note alone. If you hyave not yet used the search feature for this BB & read everything you could find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized, you need to do so. Read some of the references mentioned. With your background, it will be more difficult for you (just as it was for me) because we have to give up our cherished beliefs in order to learn a new way of seeing. Non-medically trained people have a lot easier time seeing differently. I have quoted Tolstoy on this point many times right here on the BB. I still think he said it best.
Use the internet search engines & look at the AHNA's (American Holistic Nursing Association) website.
More? Walt
It is my understanding that once a disk herniates it does not shrink (at least not completely shrink) or return to normal, is this true? Im 31 and have herniated my disk between c5 & c6 the pain subsided after 1 week with weekness in my bicep and numbness in my thumb with occassional pain shooting down my neck and arms maybe a 4 on the pain scale. The Nuerosugeon wants to fuse with my own bone. The MRI shows compression of the left nerve root and the spinal cord also looks compressed. I was told that coming from the back of my neck to try and remove the herniation ( partial disk removal whatever the term is) was to dangerous due to the fact the surgeon would have to come around to the front of the spinal cord which might cause damage to the spinal cord, therefore removing the disk from the front and fusing was the safer option. Physical therapy and home traction has helped my symptoms but weekness still remains in the bicep ( Ican still lift heavy objects just weaker than the right arm) . After PT and home traction my MRI still shows no change in the herniation. The Dr urges me to get this done to prevent any further damage to the nerve and the reduced ability of my neck to handle more stress from a future incedent (whatever the cause may be). Does anyone have some input on this? Also if I do have surgery what natural products might promote the healing of my bone graft (glucosamine sulfate, calcium, chondriotin...ect.).
Thank the good Lord for folks who take time to do a BB like this ROSS
In Reply to: spinal fusion c5 c6 posted by Ross on April 15, 1998 at 00:49:43:
You are correct that a disc does not "shrink" as it herniates, in so much as all of the disc is still there. It's like stepping on a apple. Did the apple shrink? Technically, no. There are many instances where the disc returns to normal, or near normal. The problem is not the disc, it's the what the vertebrae are doing to the disc that is the problem(that's why they are talking about fusion). Their idea is to stop the motion at that level and keep the pressure of the disc. With chiropractic, the idea is to correct the abnormal pressure. Give chiropractic, skilled relaxation, and possibly some rolfing, or deep massage, a try.
The Av-Med Study
This study included 80 patients, each of whom was previously treated by a medical doctor and subsequently referred to the
Silverman Chiropractic Center. Of these 80 patients, 21 % had been diagnosed with disc problems, 5% received emergency
room treatment and 12% had been diagnosed as requiring surgery.
Following chiropractic treatment, no surgery was required. 86% needed no further treatment at all. And the projected savings on the patient study group was approximately $250,000.
The Av-Med Study, 1993.
In Reply to: Cervical Disc Herniating and Suggested Removal posted by Donna Di Cristofaro on April 14, 1998 at 15:00:20:
Your case is highly advanced at this stage and surgery may be your best option. Skilled relaxation will be a great tool for you so keep that up. I'm sorry that you are in this horrible position. Stay positive.
I have had "BAK" method done 2/15/98 its been 8 weeks from
surgery. I am in "alot" of pain. and very frustrated like
everybody else...walt did my surgery fail ? and also what
would be my likly next step ? (since I have no disc left).
Doc tells me to wait another month before he decides whats
next..he really refrains from talking and when i ask he
wants me to continue waiting..my pain is twice as bad from
when i first started..i really dont find any info from
people of whats next..maybe cut me in halfs ...get rid of
my legs..really hurting inside. and looking for some
positive. info of what might be next.. i feel this failed.
what do you think.?
In Reply to: Cervical Disc Herniating and Suggested Removal posted by Donna Di Cristofaro on April 14, 1998 at 15:00:20:
Dear Donna,
I agree with Doc Dave. This MAY be too far advanced to avoid surgery.
However, the alternatives that HAVE a chance of reversing this are also things that could not have any negative side effects AND, even if they did not prevent the surgery, would help prevent any future skeletal problems as well as greatly improve your surgical outcome.
They are: getting a deep, total-body, therapeutic massage 3 times a week for 2 weeks--benefits would last for several months; Rolfing--would last a year or so--(call [800] 447-0150 for the closest Certified Rolfers to see you in consultation &, the most important thing in the long run: learning an effective skilled relaxation technique & practicing it at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring) for the rest of your life. The only permanent solution to your growing problems is the latter.
You could learn a lot of what you should have already been told by using the search feature for this BB & reading everything you can find about your options for any spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
Were I in your condition, I would immediately go see the top person iin the world for this condition: Norman Shealy, MD, PhD. Call (417) 865-5940. They might know someone competent in your area. Most "Pain & Stress Treatment Centers" are worse than worthless.
Let us know how you do.
Walt
In Reply to: pain medacation posted by john getzz on April 14, 1998 at 17:05:02:
Dear John,
Up to now,it is your doc who has "abused" the pain medication. You just took it. Without his offering you options for resolving the cause of you continuing condition (even you know that your fall only was the straw that broke the camel's back for your continuing condition) what were you supoosed to do?
Use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about the causes for many spinal conditions frequently producing chronic pain.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Denny on April 16, 1998 at 05:29:51:
Tried to go back in time to any original correspondence on your problem and couldn't find any. My husband had back surgery for L4,L5 ruptured, herniated disks. It was several months before the back pain let up and he had numbness in his leg, from the disk pressing on the sciatic nerve, for even longer. My brother had a rod inserted and he hurt badly for a year. There are so many nerve endings in the lower back and they are used (and abused) daily. If you are losing confidence in your doctor, seek a second opinion. Are you doing PT? Or mild exercise as prescribed? Makes all the difference. Hang in there - Good Luck DEB :-)
In Reply to: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Denny on April 16, 1998 at 05:29:51:
You may want to post your problem on two other forums that specialize in spine problems. I will be having a Ray Cage Fusion at L5 / S1 later this year due to a Grade 1 Spondylolisthesis and have found the forums to be very informative.
Try http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum/ then choose Spinal Disorders once you enter the directory, also http://www.he.net%7Ebrumley/boards/healthboard. Please keep me informed of your progress if possible.
In Reply to: spinal fusion c5 c6 posted by Ross on April 15, 1998 at 00:49:43:
Dear Ross,
Listen to Doc Dave.
I had 5 herniated discs showing on xrays taken following injection of dye into my spinal fluid (25 years ago). I was told that surgery was my only option. Fortunately for me, I learned to do skilled relaxation, massage & Rolfing and never had to have the surgery. I have had no spinal symptoms for more than 20 years. These are the approaches (in addition to Chiropractic) that "reduce the pressure inside the disc" so that healing can take place.
Use the search feature for this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Deb Wolfley on April 16, 1998 at 18:22:48:
Deb, I am investigating the possibility of fusion surgery to correct loss of lower 2 lumbar disks. From what I'm hearing, lots of times fusion surgery doesn't work and leaves the patient (victim?) worse off than before. You didn't say whether your husband and brother finally recovered or not. Are they happy with the results today? Thanks for any info you can give.
Hello,
I just found out today that my doctors are recomending anteior fusion on my c5-6, c6-7, and maybe 7-t1. This after a fall down a flight of stairs that occured 2 years ago. It took me forever to get any doctor to listen to me regarding my horrible pain due to the fact that I am only 30 years old. I am getting a 2nd oppion from a neurosurgen @ UCLA,but due to the complete degeneration of 2 of my disc's and the stenosis that I am currently experiencing I am not sure of my options. Please help!!! Any information is invaluable!
Thank you,
Christina
In Reply to: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Denny on April 16, 1998 at 05:29:51:
Dear Denny,
Of course your surgery has failed. No wonder your doc doesn't want to talk about it--what else does s/he have to offer? Successful surgery for spinal disc problems are almost immediately pain free (other than the surgical incision pain of course but THAT is gone within a couple of weeks).
Isn't it interesting that Bob, Deb (husband) and Gerry had nothing offered them but surgery & PT? World wide research has demonstrated, conclusively, that Chiropractic is MUCH more effective for conditions like this. Surgery is considered the LAST resort but, in this country, is always lurking in the foreground. So long as people do not remember that "To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.", they will continue to go to the MD/DOs for these kinds of problems. Remember, I am a career MD.
For those interested in the options they were NOT given by their trusted docs, go to the search feature provided with this BB and read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized. Chiropractic is but one of the options that should be integrated with the resolution of the causes in each case.
I hope Doc Dave will make comment here. He has entered onto the BB a lot of world research documenting what you-all have not been told. WHY NOT???????????
Walt
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion c5 c6 posted by Walt Stoll on April 17, 1998 at 10:42:12:
Hey Walt,
Thank you for your time.I have also posted on other bb's. I
am pretty sure ill be canceling my surgery monday morning.
I am in the USCG (military the 5th service or should I say the first of the other 4)and they dont pay for chiro's.
What the heck is rolfing? It sounds like drinking a gallon of water and sticking your fingers down your throat. HAHA
Where can I get info on this stuff? You said you treated yourself can I? I'll be looking at your site for more info.
Once again I really do appreciate your service! The fact that it is free tells me your personal conviction for getting info to us hurtin folks. Thanks ROSS
I have had a diskectomy and laminectomy for herniated disks in Nov.96. This worked for a few months and then the hip and leg pain came back worse. I had spinal fusion with BAK cages on levels L4-L5 L5 S1 done one week shy of a year of the first surgery. I am better and hoping for a good fusion. I have not returned to work and chances are being a auto worker, my chances of re-injuring by doing repetive bending and lifting are high. My Dr. does not want me to return to work beings as by doing the BAK cages it burns all bridges of doing any further repair if I mess up what has been done.
Hope you have a good ending to your problem. DON
In Reply to: Re: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Gerry on April 17, 1998 at 15:46:15:
My husband Dan was a carpenter when he herniated and ruptured the disk between L4 & L5. His pain had been all in his leg and hip. He had surgery in 1986 by a very good sports medicine doctor who had the same outlook as Dan, positive and outgoing. He had a 2nd opinion from a neurologist (required by Labor & Industries in WA), and was hurting and crippled enough to let them "cut on him". They Did Not Fuse his back, they inserted a "fatty pad" between the disks. He talked to 4 carpenters who had had the same procedure done, and they emphasized following doctors orders to the letter - 2 had done it and 2 hadn't and their success could be measured by their cooperation. If the doctor says walk a mile, don't walk 3/4 or 1 and 1/4 - walk one mile. Today he has some back pain where the incision is, but mostly he considers himself fully recovered.
My brother had several disks herniated, but not ruptured. Played with PT for awhile but nothing worked, but then again, he didn't always do as told. He had rods inserted in his spine, not fusion, and it was a Very Long Recovery, painful, and he is just getting a little freedom back, a year and a half later.
My aunt had the same as Dan surgery - try not to be too overweight when you have yours done - a longer incision is necessary and consequently more pain.
My mother in law had other, identical surgeries done 10 years apart. Said age made all the difference in recovery time. Don't put whatever decision you make off for too long - it takes longer to heal the further from your heart the incision is and the older you get.
Hope this helps. Laugh, Drink LOTS of water, Move as soon as they let you, and Ask for pain meds when needed to allow your body to rest - that's when it heals.
Fingers crossed - Deb :-)
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion c5 c6 posted by Ross on April 18, 1998 at 11:09:55:
Dear Ross,
I am surprised that the armed services do not use Chiropractors since all the world literature has shown that, for your condition, Chiropractic is safer, less expensive and much more effective than conventional medical approaches. ALL professional athletes use chiropractic first for the same reasons. Their livelyhood depends upon finding the most effective way to get back to competing ASAP.
If Doc Dave does not respond in a few days, send another note with his name somewhere in the title so his attention will be drawn. Perhaps he can find you a way around that expense thing.
Call (800) 447-0150 for Rolfing information AND the names of the closest Certified Rolfers. One consultation with a Chiropractor and a Rolfer would not cost you much. At least then you would know better if those approaches are for you. By the way, you HAVE noticed that, by far, the most cost of illnesses like this is NOT the monetary cost----haven't you?
ALL of the most effective ways to resolve problems like this, that I have seen personally (and professionally), ARE the things you can do for yourself. The only problem is that they all take learning AND the discipline to practice them for yourself.
If I can help more please ask away. As you get well, you can help a lot of others, who are going through the same needless suffering you are experiencing, by sharing what happens to you.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Debra Wolfley on April 18, 1998 at 19:48:37:
Dear Deb,
Thanks for the contribution.
Since I have learned that there are lots of alternatives more effective than surgery (including the fact that I had the problem myself) for conditions like this, I have been angry to see that the surgical option is favored exactly correlated with how much it costs and how well insurance pays for it--
in comparison with the more effective, safer & less expensive approaches not covered by conventional insurance.
The day will come when surgery is only considered after all the conservative approaches have been tried. Right now, the only conservative approaches that are even recommended are those that fit within the conventional medical system. Anything that is considered competition to the system is frozen out until the patient finds out about it her/himself and insists upon giving it a try.
In the end, most surgical "successes" only last a few years anyhow & then they are back for surgery again--or some other related condition like fibromyositis, arthritis, hypertension, etc. Surgery does little (if anything) for the mechanisms behind the condition. All that happens is that the tip of the iceberg is carved off & the iceberg goes blithely on its way.
Is this making sense to you?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on April 09, 1998 at 13:49:57:
I am a 27 year old male that had a Grade I congenital spondololysis/spondolisthesis L-5/S-1 fused on Sep. 95. using the Texas Scottish Rite Bone Bolt and Rod System. I had an excellent fusion was completely fused at three months post op and have suffered no problems at all as a result of the fusion. My physical lifestyle has not changed at all, I even continue to play Rugby at a whopping 148 lbs. However I'm trying to have the hardware removed. Dont need it, dont want it! As a result of the hardware I have been denied attending some Army training schools, namely the Special Forces Selection Course. I am currently in a National Guard Infantry Company. If something of this nature is interfering with somebody of my age reaching their full potential, and if the hardware is no longer needed then why am I encountering resistance from Physicians I have confered with to remove it. Somebody please answer this frustrated "Grunt," or loan me your "how to book," of back surgery and a screwdriver!
In Reply to: Re: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Gerry on April 17, 1998 at 15:46:15:
I had a fusion between L4,L5, and my sacrum two and a half years ago, not knowing that Chiropractic Adjustments could have helped my Grade 1 spondolythesis. I let doctors cut on me, which I regret now, my fusion didn't take for many reasons 1) I was a smoker and that leads to no oxygen getting to the fusion to mend 2). I didn't lose the appropraite weight,in order not to have stress on the area.
A long story short I now have a Class 3 spondolythesis, have
constant tenderness and am refusing to have hardware put into my back and am losing weight, practicing stress redeuction techniques and working at body strengthening.
All I can say is that I wish that I knew then what I know
now about Chiropraty and the fantastic results that are reached with it, I WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE THE CHOICE FOR SURGERY!
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Fusion posted by christina wiltsee on April 18, 1998 at 04:21:27:
Dear Christina,
Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
THEN, if you still have questions, write again. I can guarantee that you have not been offered most of the safer, more effective & less expensive options which are in direct competition with the surgeon.
Walt
Walt
I NEED INFORMATION FOR ATHLETIC TRAINING,AFTER A CERVICAL ANTERIOR FUSION OR FOR A CERVICAL DISKECTOMY WHICH WAS PERFORMED ON ME 1 1/2 YEARS AGO. PLEASE SEND ME THE INFORMATION FAST BECAUSE IN MY COUNTRY WE DO NOT HAVE POST SURGERY EXPERTS TO CONSULT US ON THIS SUBJECT.
THANKS IN ADVANCE,
ANDREAS ZAMBAS
Walt, you replied that my L5,S1 failed after 8 weeks. some
of the people in the bb say it takes longer..what do you
base these finding of say its a failure ? also i am
interested of what might be next. if the disk is gone what
else or what might my next step be...still in pain..and
still looking for any info you may provide..and thank you
for your time...we do appriciate it...Denny.
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion posted by John Meseroll on April 19, 1998 at 18:34:53:
Dear John,
This is just another reason for using surgery as the last resort for conditions like this. I would keep getting another opinion till you find someone who cares enough about your desired life goals to understand why you want it out.
If they understood ANYTHING about electromagnetic medicine, they would want it out themselves. Even though electromagnetic medicine is said to be the medicine of the new millenium, it usually takes physicians a generation or two to catch up with a new paradigm.
See my Tolstoy Quote about this several times within the past month on this BB.
Walt
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Rochelle Roberts on April 12, 1998 at 10:57:09:
I had a bone fusion, using my own bone plug from my hip on L4 and L5, placed through the stomach, 2 rods and screws placed in the back. I feel lot a lot better, nearly pain free. I still have some nerve pain down the legs, but not as bad.It's been 6 months since my surgery. I went back to work last week on light duty, lifting no more than 30lb, no bending, and prolong standing. also I'm taking P.T. 3x week for 6 weeks. The P. T.is doing some good. It has aggravited the damage nerve during the excerise, so they told me to stop whenever the nerves starts to burn, or don't do then at all. It will take more time to get my stomach and back muscle back to where they should be. Yes I would do it again if I have to, cause it help me that much
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
WHO IS VERY GOOD, BUT I NEED ANY SUGGESTIONS WE CAN GET.
In Reply to: Re: L5,S1 Spinal fusion posted by Patricia Worth on April 20, 1998 at 02:23:07:
Thanks, Patricia.
Testimonials have more weight for many people going through this than anything Doc Dave or I can say.
I hope you are using this time to learn how you can deal with the main causes of your condition and not just switching from being a helpless pawn of the conventional medical monopoly to donating your body to the Chiropractor in the same way.
Even though Chiropractic is more effective and safer than what you had done to you surgically, it IS another treatment--albeit a much heathier one. You STILL would be well served to learn to deal with the causes. You will be glad you did. Hear what Doc Dave has to say about this.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Anterior Fusion posted by ANDREAS ZAMBAS on April 20, 1998 at 16:02:04:
Dear Andreas,
I hope Doc Dave will respond to your note. If you do not hear from him in a couple of weeks (he is on vacation) write again with his name in the title to draw his attention.
My youngest son is a Physiatrist (the new medical specialty in exactly what you need). He is a professor at his alma mater: the Osteopathic Medical School in Fort Worth, Texas. I don't think he would be upset if you wrote him in his email (if you told him I told you to). He would probably be able to tel lyou some simple things as well as how to find advice closer to home. Do you have an Osteopathic medical School in your country? His email address is SCCRAM@AOL.COM
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
In Reply to: Failed Fusion - L5,S1 posted by Denny on April 20, 1998 at 23:32:12:
Dear Denny,
I base my statement on 10 years of assisting at these knds of surgeries on my patients and 20+ more years of dealing with the post-surgical patient.
The surgical procedure is designed to remove the bulging that is pressing on the nerves & causing the pain. If that is successful, the patient wakes up without the pain (except for that of the surgical cutting which goes away as fast as ANY bone surgery--which is about the same as healing a fracture--6 weeks).
If you have read the search feature about spinal conditions, you already know the other things I would recommend for you to learn.
Walt
Walt, thank you for your reply. you are/or seem to know
and give us folks the TRUTH>> and thank you for that.
i know it hard to speculate but what might my next
step be if this fusion didnt work with BAK cages..
will they take them out. or provide additional
stability.. wandering what you might do if it were
your choice ? Also, from reading BB I feel that i
have a need for more info to learn about failure of
spinal fusion, it seems as though the info stops at
herinated disks going into fusion. but not really any-
thing about failed L5,S1 and what might happen next..
again..you have been a blessing to me..and have been
a positive person even when i dont know you personally
sincerely, Denny
In Reply to: husband's accident and anterior cervical diskectomy posted by bonnie cobb on April 21, 1998 at 23:11:27:
Dear Bonnie,
While maintaining his conventiohnal approach, I would suggest several things:
1. Use the search feature provided with this BB & read everything you can find about all spinal conditions frequently surgerized.
2. He HAS TO learn an effective skilled relaxation technique & practice it at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring).
3. Consider seeing a good local masseur in consultation. He needs at least 3 times a week for 2 weeks a deep, total-body, therapeutic massage to get him started on #2.
4. Rolfing would help him a lot & he should be seen in consultation by a nearby Certified Rolfer. Call (800) 447-0150 for informatrion AND the names of the closest Rolfers.
As he improves, please share his experiences with this BB. Others deserve to know that they are not being offered all of their options for terrible injuries like this.
Walt
In Reply to: Failed Spinal Fusion L5,S1 - Whats Next Step ? posted by Denny on April 22, 1998 at 21:20:07:
Dear Denny,
I wish there were a simple answer to your question. If there were, you know everyone would be telling it to you.
Short of your becoming an expert in this field yourself (NOT a bad idea) you will need to go to a COMPETENT pain & stress treatment center (PSTC) and have them figure out, in your case, the answer you need.
Were I in your situation, I would call the best in the world Norm Shealy, MD, PhD--the man who started all PSTCs--at his center in Springfield, MO, (417) 865-5940. I would ask them IF there is any competent center in your part of the country. Unfortunately, there are a LOT more incompetent ones than competent ones. You can bet, with a waiting list of 6 months, they will not try to keep you to themselves. They are truly a rare breed (the kind that cares more about the patient than making money) & will advise you if your best bet really might be to come to them.
Let us know what you learn &, as you get well, share your experiences with the BB participants. As you have seen with the archived information about spinal conditions there are a lot of you out there. The day will come when it will be malpractice to offer surgery before the effective alternatives are tried.
Walt
I had the same thing happen to me. Fortunately I have a great chiropractor. I have 3 bulging discs and one is pressing on the nerve. Results from MRI done 2 days ago.
My DC has a rehab plan. So take the above advice and find a good DC.
Good luck to you.
MY HUSBAND HAS RECENTLY HAD AN ANTERIOR CERVICAL DISKECTOMY AND FUSION AT LEVELS C-4 THROUGH C-6. HE FELL OFF OF A 30FT LADDER AT WORK AND CAUGHT HIMSELF WITH HIS RIGHT ARM TO STOP THE FALL. IT NOT ONLY TORE HIS SHOULDER IN 2 PLACES (WHICH ALSO REQUIRED SURGERY AS WELL) BUT SNAPPED HIS NECK. THE INITIAL DIAGNOSIS WAS C4-C5 AND C5-C6 HERNIATED DISCS WITH FORAMINAL STENOSIS AT C4-5,5-6, AND6-7 BILATERALLY. ALSO CERVICAL SPONDYLOSIS WITH RADICULOPATHY AND MYELOPATHY.
THE SURGERY HELPED THE PAIN FOR ABOUT A MONTH, BUT HIS OCCIPITAL HEADACHES ARE GROWING WORSE, THE NUMBNESS IN HIS ARMS AND HANDS ARE STILL BOTHERING HIM, AND HE HAS SEVERE MUSCLE SPASMS THAT SURROUND THIS NECK AND SHOULDERS AND NEVER SEEM TO LET UP. THE WEORKER'S COMP DOCTOR SEEMS TO THINK HE IS JUST DOING DANDY, BUT I AM WITNESSING HIS PAIN AND FRUSTRATION. HE CANNOT SEEM TO GET HIS HANDS TO DO WHAT HIS BRAIN TELLS THEM TO DO, AND HE IS SO DEPRESSESED. HE IS ONLY 50 AND IS FEELING AND ACTING LIKE HIS LIFE IS OVER. IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH THIS ALSO OR DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS WE COULD TRY? WE NEED HELP. HE'S A GOOD MAN WHO HAS WORKED VERY HARD ALL OF HIS LIFE AND CAN'T STAND BEING LAID UP. IT HAS BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE HE HAS WORKED AND IT IS TAKING A TOLL ON HIS MIND AS WELL AS HIS BODY.
ANY HELP YOU CAN BE WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
COBBMANOR@aol.com
I would like to know if anyone could help me I had cevical surgery a few months ago because of fail surgery two years ago after all my complaining just found out have plates and screws and hearing a lot of cracking and popping in my neck I had surgery because headaches were so bad I nearly crack it been a few months now and headaches have worsen is this normal becaue my wits are about gone no pain medicine is stopping them I have to go to work in 3 more weeks and I dont think I will make it do you think these headahes are forever also they hurt the worse when I walk and move around when I lay down a while they stop also three fingers go numb when I walk around please someone advise me
Dear Dr. Stoll
I'm 34 yrs old and have 3 children, hours after my third child was born, I had a tubal ligation.(1996) soon after my menstrual periods became painful (lowback & cramps)
and within the last 2 year its been a nightmare.
I'm in pain 1 week before my menstrual cycle and 1 week after, I have low back pain that radiates down both of my legs, I've lost my job and unable to work due to my condition. (therefore no medical insurance) I've had 7 m.r.i, spinal tap, etc. My doctor wanted to rule out MS
which it was negative. My doctor perscribe vicodin #15 only each month. which has help and made a difference in my life.
The problem that I'm have now is my doctor retired as of january 1998. That two doctors that I have seen will not
refill my RX, they want to do more test (ones that I've already done) they have all reports from my old dr. I just dont understand some doctors have such a problem prescribing
vicodin to me especially with all my medical history.
I'm at the end of my rope, its taken a toll on me and my family. I dont drink or smoke, I dont have an additive
personality. vicodin does work for me. is it true you can get vicodin in mexico. Would a hysterectomy solve my problems? please help me findd a solution!
Thank you for you time!
In Reply to: Re: spinal fusion patients please respond posted by Marsha McLeod on April 13, 1998 at 11:20:01:
I had a fusion jan. 12 i am still in my brace, i can drive 2-3 miles,very little house work, can't work,still having pain all though not as severe, still taking med. i go back to the doctor in a month,i can walk about half a mile,but i become very tired,i don't do yo much!this was my 4th operation in ten years.3laminectomies and now the fusion.L4L5 LAM. s1 is all so going bad but the doctor would not fuse it yet,
GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE! CHRIS
I had the same neck and shoulder pain as you are having.
I went through the same procees of taking pain pills,x-rays,
MRI,and a CT test. However,the pain got to be more than
I could take. The doctor put me in the hospital and put on
a IV drip of morphine. The next day I had the steriod injection with no relief. My neurosurgeon finally scheduled me for surgery. ( all this time no one,either my primary care DR. or the neurosurgeon suggested a Chiropractor.)
I had the surgery April 20,1998 and the pain in my neck shoulder is gone. I plan on returning to work in two weeks.If
I can be of futher help,please write.
My GP mentoned this as a possible diagnosis for my neck, shoulder and arm pain. He is scheduling an MRI for later this week and prescribed some Vicodin ES.
The pills have run out. I am now in bigtime pain. How can I be smart about this process of diagnosis/treatment. I just want to get back to my normal active self.
I am 36/M and very active. The pain is making me crazy, though.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
If you have been on vicodin consistantly of 6 months what is the best way to get off of it with little or no side effects
In Reply to: Re: Failed Spinal Fusion L5,S1 - Whats Next Step ? posted by Walt Stoll on April 24, 1998 at 10:38:15:
Dear Walt,
Hi! My name is Sherri and I haven't been on the computer in several months now but I have talked to you in the past. I have recently changed Doctors because my old one was giving me 200 percocet and soma and elavil every 2 weeks for the pain but I hadn't seen him since nov.1997.
He would write the prescp. and I would go to his office and pick it up, but he wouldn't explain to me why I still have so much pain!! I had my fusion in Sept. 1997 and I am so much worse now than ever!! So any way I have changed dr.'s and now I have found out that my fusion didn't take and before I can get any more help I am going through detox. and pain management and after I get my body cleaned out I will probably have to have my fusion repeated but from the back this time and the bone graph from my hip. He said that I would probably have to have another surgery after that from the front to remove what my old Doctor put in.
I am going through the worst time of my life with this do you think that this sounds like the right stuff to do?
Please write me back I need some advise from someone that is away from this situation and not family and friends!!
Thank You,
Sherri
I am curious. I have a lot of the same symptoms, including severe pain. I am certainly on the edge of addiction to drugs. My problem started with mild dizziness and that has stayed with me as the rest of my symptoms became worse. Did you ever have dizziness with your problems? My doctor(s) all say that it cannot cause dizziness, but in all my research, I have found it in most symptom charts.
Good Luck!
In Reply to: Re: Failed Spinal Fusion L5,S1 - Whats Next Step ? posted by Sherri on April 28, 1998 at 20:27:54:
Dear Sherri, i kinda know how you feel about changing docs
well first of all its been 11 week since my fusion L5,S1
using the BAK method..i dont think this is getting any better, and i thought of changing docs. my doc resists
giving me pain pills...like percacett.. i have been taking
darvacet 1 every 5 hours..and i need to increase this
because the pain is greater then the meds..but i respect my
docs oppinon..if surgery come into play i will seek second
oppinon to check out another neuro surgeon..but what i seek
is to find out what might be the next step ? if fusion
fail...i mean what else can they do ? Denny
In Reply to: re: vicodin posted by Kathy on April 27, 1998 at 15:31:53:
Dear Kathy,
Even you know that the Vicodin only covers up the symptoms. Your condition cannot be a Vicodin deficiency (grin).
You have multiple parasitosis (candida being one of them) which you could not have without your having leaky gut syndrome for years before it progressed to parasitosis. Candida-Related Syndroms always causes endocrinological/intestinal symptoms in conjunction with each other.
You could start by reading about WHY you have what you have: 1. "Mind as Healer, MINd as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier, 2. a copy of my book (link on this page), and then, if you want to focus in on who in your area could help you with this, call Great Smokies Labs. ([800]# in the back of my book) for the names of the physicians closest to you who would know enough to order a comprehensive stool analysis, purged stool analysis AND some true liver function tests----------------as well as what to do about the results. THEN, get started resolving some of your causes.
Since all of these symptoms are messages your poor bodymind has been sending you about "needing help", eventually the Vicodin will no longer work as your bodymind has to shout louder & louder for help.
As you get into the above, if you have more questions, do not hesitate to write again. What you have is a very common set of problems and others deserve to learn that there IS a way out.
Walt
I have a lower left abdomin pain which is stabbing and paralyzing at times which is radiating around to my lower left & center of back. Certain ingested items, including alcohol, causes a deep sore pain in this lower left abdomin area. Does anyone have any suggested reliefs or cures.
In Reply to: Abdomin-lower left, pain, radiating to lower back - stabbing /paralyzing pain at times posted by Troy on April 06, 1998 at 09:21:12:
Dear Troy,
There are too many things that could cause this for me to give you a reasonable hint of what to do. The fact that you can link some of the symptoms to something you ingested leads me to be suspicious that this is at least partly the colonic form of leaky gut syndrome.
HOWEVER, another likely contributing factor would be spinal disluxation and Doc Dave would know about that better than I.
If you have already had a negative conventional medical workup, It would narrow down the field for ME enough that I could at least point you in th right direction to find a solution.
If you do not get a response from Doc Dave in a day or so, resubmit your note with Doc Dave in the title to bring it to his attention.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Abdomin-lower left, pain, radiating to lower back - stabbing /paralyzing pain at times posted by Walt Stoll on April 08, 1998 at 12:25:31:
Dr. Stoll is right about there being many causes for the symptoms you are having. Some, more serious than others. If you have been tested for all "serious" possibilities you might think of trying chiropractic. I have had several patients with similar symptoms who have "nothing wrong with them" and turn around in a matter of days with chiropractic care. Nerve interference from a spinal abberation can cause many symptoms. Facilitation(stimulation) of neural tissue with these spinal problems is common and can result in things like smooth muscle spasms.
Make sure you have a traditional medical exam to rule out any immediate threat to your wellbeing.
When I was 16 I injured my back lifting weights. It at first pulled on me a little while I was lifting. A little while later I was kind of sideways and one side of my hip was higher than the other. I really wasn't in pain at the time. However, a short period later when i would be playing basketball or just bending over fast my back would go out. I couldn't bend over at all. I would lay down and it would eventually get better. However, I could not sit "like an Indian" with my legs crossed like that. I would get so stiff. The next year of my back going out occassionally, I decided to go to a chiropractor. The treatments felt good. However, my back would still go out at times when i would be doing something. In fact, my back started going out even easier once I started going to a chiropractor and I developed severe leg pain from my hip, back of the knee, down the leg to my ankle. I never had the leg pain or the frequency of my back going out until I started going to a chiropractor. When my back did go out, I would go to the chiropractor and they would give me an adjustment and I would get a lot of relief. Around 3 years later, I decided to go to an orthopedic surgeon since I was n't geting any worse and the problems were increasing. He felt around on my back pushing on the vertebrae and had me bend different ways. He said I had a "musculoskeletal sprain" and sent me to a spinal rehab place. He told me to only go a few times, just long enough to learn the exercises so I would not waste my money. I went to therapy and the therapist told me to stop going to the chiropractor because the were weakening my spine by making it "loose." I have not been back to the chiropractor since and went to therapy around 4 times. From that time on, exactly 2 years ago, my back has only went out 2-3 times and I had about a year and a half of pretty good luck with my back. But, as soon as 1998 got here, my back has really flared up again very badly. I have pain down my legs. It is a hot sensation and sometimes a tickling sensation. I am only 21 and need a strong body. Please tell me what you think is wrong, what I should do, and all the advice you have. Thanks
In Reply to: Back problem posted by Barry on April 09, 1998 at 12:15:07:
I hate to degrade the chiropractor you were seeing but anyone who is using gross manipulation to solve back pain problems runs the risk of stretching ligaments and making a hypermobile spine.
Finding the right chiropractor, skilled relaxation, and rolfing should give you the long term results you are looking for. Order Dr. Stolls book and learn more. The diagnosis of musculoskeletal sprain is only one part of the picture. There are obviously joint problems included. I will be happy to help you find a chiropractor in your area who will treat this condition in a manner that will not lead to the hypermobility problems that you have experienced in the past. drdave@kih.net
One thing that you must realize is that once the ligaments are damaged from the intial injury that there may always be times when your "back goes out". Limiting these to one every few years should not be a problem.
In Reply to: Back problem posted by Barry on April 09, 1998 at 12:15:07:
Dear Barry,
The reason this happened is total body bracing. The reason it is still being a problem is because of total body bracing and the reason it is coming back is because of total body bracing. The doc who told you that you had musculoskeletal spasm was right on. Too bad he did not know any better than send you to the therapist. Too bad that the therapist did not know enough to explain this to you & show you how to get rid of your "bracing".
The ONLY thing that is going to resolve this for you is your learning an effective skilled relaxation technique and practicing it at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any you do within 2 hours of retiring). To learn enough about this to get moving in the right direction, go to the link:
Skilled Relaxation.
As you get well, please take the time to share your experiences with the rest of this BB's participants. Others deserve to know that there are effective alternatives to waiting till they get worse. This is exactly the scenario that frequently leads to surgery if the cause is not dealt with.
Thirty years ago, my back was in a lot worse shape than yours and I learned about MY "bracing". I never had the surgery recomended and have not had any problem with my back for more than 25 years.
Walt