In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by JBurns on October 08, 1997 at 23:33:42:
I had disc fusion in '94 and it took fully one year for the pain problem to resolve itself. I ocasionally have bouts of recuring pain along the same, plus new areas. My thoughts were that I was just undergoing aging and general deteration!
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by delaney on November 13, 1997 at 07:59:44:
Dear Delaney,
You need, desperately, to learn about skilled relaxation & practice it 20 minutes twice a day forever. You are not just geting old. You have greatly increased your wear & tear by constant bracing. You could get a head start to understanding this by reading a copy of my book (link below).
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion, Vicodin and CMO posted by Robert Lancaster on October 02, 1997 at 07:40:51:
Does Ultram have similar side affects? Vicodin makes me drowsy and light headed which impacts my ability to work and
drive.
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Dr. Gary Smith on September 13, 1997 at 10:35:39:
I am researching a question for my neighbor. She had surgery for servical neck fusion, but one level is not totally fusing. She would like to know anything about a procedure on lumbar spine fusion that has been adapted for the neck that is supposedly not yet FDA approved. Also would like info on bone stimulation and pulse electromagnetic fields. She feels she must go on to some type of procedure that would remedy her situation. She is a specialist and can understand any tecnical info given. Can you provide assistance or tell her where she may possibly find some of these answers. Please email me. Thank you. Debra
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Debra on November 20, 1997 at 19:34:33:
Dear Debra,
She might look into the work of Thomas Becker, MD, who developed the trickle charge DC current designed to promote bony healing like this. The library and bookstore would both have books by him & about his process.
Short of that, I would recommend she learn an effective skilled relaxation technique & practice it at least 20 minutes twice a day. This would help reverse the reason why she had to have the surgery in the first place AND the most common cause of poor healing of the cervical spine.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Spinal Fusion, Vicodin and CMO posted by Sue Harris on November 02, 1997 at 19:28:41:
i have not had any spinal problems but i do suffer from rhematoid arthritis. if you can, please stay away from the vicodin. i'm in the middle of getting off of two years of using them. the doctor is slowly weaning me off of them, i have two days left (two tomorrow and one pill the next day, then none) i smoked for 12 years and quit cold turkey and this is soooooo much worse!!! vicodin became a crutch for me and some days i would take 10 a day. i can't wait until this is out of my system and can get rid of the headache and withdrawl symptoms. i won't take them again ever! please find an alternative if you can. good luck!
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Sue on November 28, 1997 at 22:27:56:
Dear Sue,
How desperate?
How far (geographically) are you willing to go to resolve this without surgery?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on November 30, 1997 at 01:21:03:
see prior message,wouldnt take e-mail address
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on November 30, 1997 at 01:23:40:
my 12 year old daughter is set to have posterior spinal fussion on January 13.98 at rainbow babies and childrens hospital, is it safe to assume that in 20-30 years she will have major back pain and possibly need to have corrective surgery.? she has scoliosis and her curve is at 58 degrees.will she after recovery be able to continue with her tae-kwon do???????
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on November 30, 1997 at 01:21:03:
Dear Linda,
Answering your questions is far beyond the scope of a bulletin board discussion since only the surgeon on the spot can answer these questions. The reason surgeons make so much money is that it is their responsibility to take whatever time is needed to explain all this to you. Unfortuantely, many surgeons just take the money & run. They do this by discouraging questions by people like you. It is your responsibility to not let her/him get away with that.
Having said that, if she were MY child, I would at least have her seen by a Certified Rolfer in consultation AND see that she learns an effective skilled relaxation technique & practices it at least 20 minutes twice a day forever. She can ALWAYS have the surgery. Competent measurements would show a dramatic improvement within a few weeks of doing the Rolfing alone. Of course, that would make the surgeon doubt his/her original measurements since, by our conventional paradigm, reversing scoliosis is impossible without bracing & surgery.
You can find the closest Certified Rolfer by calling (800) 530-8875. They can also give you references about Rolfing.
As your daughter gets better, please share her experiences with the BB so others with similar problems can see that the conventional medical monopoly is not offering all of our options for terrible problems like this.
Walt
In Reply to: Spinal Fusion, Vicodin and CMO posted by Robert Belcher on August 19, 1997 at 14:36:59:
I was wondering if anyone had any information on the possibility of nursing while on vicodin. I know my drs. do not recommend it, but I have heard that nursing is possible.
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on November 30, 1997 at 01:27:42:
My mother in law has asked me to come on and research
elevated levels of Metanephrine? i cant find out what it is or what causes it......or even a defination......anybody out there that can tell me what this is and means to her?????
she has been sick for years......sever stomach food allergies,epstien-barr,cronic fatigue, and much to many more to list...........
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on November 30, 1997 at 01:27:42:
Thursday Dec.4,97
We went for my daughters first blood donation for her surgery.......man was it rough.we called the dr.afterwards and hes called in a scritp.for novicane patches,for her to put on her arms an hour before we go next time......
only 4 more times to go till surgery......
its very dificult for me to see her in pain,i cant imagine how im gonna keep strong for her after she wakes up after surgery.........
Thanks.
Linda Myers
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on December 06, 1997 at 13:11:59:
Dear Linda,
BOY, is SHE a perfect candidate for a pain & stress treatment center! She is also the kind of person who is very likely to have poor results from the surgery. Were I the surgeon, I would be recommending that surgery be the last resort that it should always be anyhow since PASTCs are so effective for those willing to help themselves.
Unfortunately, I know of only one center that I personally would be willing to go to. They may know of a closer one that meets their standards IF your daughter is willing to consider this alternative. It will take work on her part. However, her experience with the blood-letting might open her eyes to considering another option that has NO pain associated with it.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Walt Stoll on December 07, 1997 at 10:08:47:
Dr.Walt,
Isnt this the next nessescary step for them to take with my daughter?
Her curve went from 32 degrees in july,to 58 degrees in october.
and he re-did the x-rays 3 times to make sure there wasnt an error in measurement?
if it keeps progressing such as it is,wouldnt the surgery be the only way to stop it? altho i would like more info on the stress and pain management because im sure she can use that as well....
im wondering if we are doing the right thing by allowing this surgery to be done.she is so young,and this is her back were talking about......
thank you for your time......
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on December 07, 1997 at 14:18:10:
Dear Linda,
I have seen rapidly progressing curvatures like this reverse with a competent pain & stress treatment center. If you are willing to go to Missouri, you should at least consider this before surgery. YOU CAN ALWAYS DO THE SURGERY.
Rolfing, total body massage at least 3 times a week and her practicing EFFECTIVE skilled relaxation at least 20 minutes twice a day would stop this progression in its tracks and any competent pain & stress treatment center would get that started immediately. There may be nutritional, etc., factors as well but determining the individual pattern of approach is the forte` of a competent PASTC.
In the long run, the same things that actually deal with the causes of this condition will also produce a much healthier person so that she wouldn't come down with many of the other things we discuss here on the BB later in life. THIS TRULY IS A CROSSROAD IN HER LIFE.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Walt Stoll on December 08, 1997 at 09:51:32:
Dr.Stoll,
Is'nt there any pain & stress management centers closer
than Missouri,are there any in Ohio? or even a little closer?
If this could be handled helped and stopped i would very much want to try it before letting them cut her open.....
thank you so very much for all of your time,help,and in-sight
Linda.
In Reply to: Cervical Disc Fusion posted by Lee McLemore on December 08, 1997 at 13:08:46:
I realize this post was not directed at me. Dr. Stoll has asked me to put my $.02 in and there are few things I know more about than low back problems.
Disc surgeries rarely keep symtoms away for more than 5 years. A fusion may get a few more years of pain free living but unless you're 80 years what good is that?
I'm a little confused because you titled the post as CERVICAL disc fusion but you are referring to lumbar vertebrae. I will assume you are talking about the lumbar area and that the title was just a mistake.
What happens is that the disc originally bulged or herniated for a reason. Discs don't just bulge without a reason. There has to be pressure to cause the center(nuclues pulposis) to penetrate the outer layers (annulus fibrosis). This has to be done by the vertebrae above and below and how they are in relation to each other. Imagine a balloon between two boards. If the boards stay parallel to each other the balloon can sustain a significant amount of weight. But if the boards are not parall es the balloon will be forced in one direction. This is likely what happened to you in the beginning and is still present. Thats why the progression continues.
Getting someting done about this alignment and the continued bracing in that area is the answer you are looking for. One way is to fuse that area but then you loose the motion there that must be made up by levels above, wearing them faster. Other drawbacks to removal of this disc and fusion is that the Intervertebral Foramen(the hole that the nerve passes out of your spine through) is partially made by the existence of that disc. Removing it may decrease the IVF to the point that there is STILL pressure on the nerve. Then they will tell you that they can go in and scrape the bone away in that foramen, not mentioning that ,like a callus, the bone will grow back plus more.
Another way is to first see a chiropractor about getting the L5 vertebrae realigned squarely over the sacrum. Then make changes regarding the muscle tension(bracing) in the low ba ck that is adding to the force of the L5 down onto the disc. Some of this will resolve with the chiropractic care as much of the tension may be the body trying to stabilize that area.
If you go ahead with the surgery and come back to this list in 5 years with the same symptoms I will have nothing that I can give you. If you try chriropractic and relaxation techniques and they don't work for you then you can always still have the surgery.
Below I have enclosed a study that may help you decide to at least give this approach a chance.
The Av-Med Study
This study included 80 patients, each of whom was previously treated by a medical doctor and subsequently referred to the
Silverman Chiropractic Center. Of these 80 patients, 21 % had been diagnosed with disc problems, 5% received emergency
room treatment and 12% had been diagnosed as requiring surgery.
Following chiropractic treatment, no surgery was required. 86% needed no further treatment at all. And the projected
savings on the patient st
udy group was approximately $250,000.
The Av-Med Study, 1993.
In Reply to: Re: L5-S1 spinal fusion posted by Linda Myers on December 08, 1997 at 10:44:50:
Dear Linda,
There was one for years in Ohio but the founder retired & no one else was willing to do the incredible amount of work it takes to keep one going.
I would trust the recommendations of the people at the Missouri center, though. They would probably know if there was a competent one closer. Most of the ones claiming to be Pain & Stress Treatment Centers are not worth the wind it takes to blow them up.
Call C. Norman Shealy, MD, PhD, 1328 East Evergreen, Springfield, MO, (417) 865-5940 and ask them for advice.
Walt
In Reply to: Cervical Disc Fusion posted by Lee McLemore on December 08, 1997 at 13:08:46:
DEar Lee,
More surgery will likely only be another in a long list of future skeletal problems UNLESS you do something about WHY this is happening to you.
Toward that end, I would recommend you getting started by reading a copy of my new book (link below). In the meantime, I hope Doc Dave will notice your note & give us some of his wisdom.
I would have no way to recommend any conventional surgeon in that area. If it were me, I would get a good consultation at a competent Pain & Stress Treatment Ceenter before I did any more surgery.
See my note to Linda about this today.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Cervical Disc Fusion posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on December 08, 1997 at 13:45:08:
Thanks Doc Dave.
As usual, your advice is right on!
Walt
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Walt Stoll on November 10, 1997 at 10:55:05:
I had 2 levels done C5-6 & C6-7, also had parts of C5 & C6
removed. I had a plate placed over fusion disc spaces. I
went home from the hospital 11 hours post Op, and back to work light duty 13 days later. Never felt better. Pain was
gone from back and left arm right after surgery. The only
real recovery was the hip where the bone was removed. My
advice would be to have a Neuro Surg. DR do the surgery,
not an ortho. This was 8 weeks ago, and I couldn't be
happier.
In Reply to: Re: cervical disc fusion posted by Sam on December 11, 1997 at 23:39:33:
Dear Sam,
Some folks DO have very positive results which is why conventional medicine still recommends it. I hope you are one of those with permanent results.
However, if you are one of the many who have recurrence in a few years--or have other skeletal problems come up later--perhaps you will recall that there are other options to continuing cutting.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: aplastic anemia posted by Charlene Woodward on September 24, 1997 at 02:15:41:
I was diagnosed with aplastic four yrs. ago. My hematologist ATG. My hgb went from 2 to 10 to 11 and hung around there for about 3 yrs. Then in Oct.1997 I went in for a cbc (blood test) not feeling well, and my hgb was 7. It is now Dec. 1997. I've had two transfusions and on Cyclosporine 150 mg. Twice daily. My bone marrow test shows I am producing slowly but I may be destroying my new cells as they enter my blood stream.Thats how my doctor kind of explains it. I am 34 yrs. I've worked in Dry cleaning all my life. Do you think the damage is done?