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Many of you may be familiar with my story, in short I have RA for the last 12 years and two young toddlers at home with a traveling husband. I am now under the care of a wonderful holistic dr. and practicing MBSR as well as taking recommended supplements. I am preparing to do the e-diet, although do have some concerns due to our situation and limited time for food prep. as well as my husband's travel schedule. I need to plan it for a week when he is home, do to possible/probable withdrawal symptoms and the need to care for the kids. There is only one week to do that within the next 2 months, and here is the dilemna. I could begin it that week, and he would be home for the 1st 7 days. But, then we are traveling as a family from days 13 to 20, it cannot be avoided. This is the phase were I would be adding items back in. I will not have available to me any resources to prepare food while away, we will be at a hotel for the duration. I suppose my question to those of you with experience in this area is to ask, is this feasible? If I add in as much as possible (up to 3 items a day) in the week before we leave (days 7-12), do you think this will work? Any other tips? I need to do this, as I am very inflamed. I have tried a whole foods diet for some time with no improvement. My dr. actually recommends a 20 day rejuvenation diet (based on the book) but it requires lots of specific food prep and ingredients and I don't think I can pull it off at home alone with 2 little ones. Not enough time to prepare it all. Any advice is appreciated.
In Reply to: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Maggie on October 24, 2003 at 19:24:56:
Hi, Maggie.
Just remember that, with your active RA, this is as good as it gets. Each year that goes by will make it harder, with less benefits, for you to do this!
Walt
In Reply to: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Maggie on October 24, 2003 at 19:24:56:
Don't add 3 items a day. As soon as you get a reaction you will not know where to trace it to. And what if you have reacted to two or more. Stick with one a day if there is no reaction.
In Reply to: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Maggie on October 24, 2003 at 19:24:56:
Dear Maggie,
I did the e-diet a few weeks ago and it was very challenging.
I had SEVERE withdrawal symptoms on the first three days (headache, increased articular pain, swelling) it was really something. I had to take day 2 and 3 off work, as I did not follow Rob McFerran's advice and began the diet on a Tuesday !
By day 6, as promised most of my syspmtoms disapeared : pain and swelling. HOWEVER, I then experienced the most incedible dry eye, dry mouth episode I have ever had. I think it was either an exaberation of an inflammatory pre-existing condition, or the most incredible candida die-off ever. Dr Stoll has mentioned that he has never/ rarely had patients experience die-off. By day 14, I began taking ester-C vitamine C in order to help myself out, as the condition was becoming intolerable. All supplements are discontinued during the e-diet, and particularily vitamin C, as it has anti-histaminic properties and will mask reactions.
I did find out that I was very allergic to apples and beef. And I did not begin introducing the right foods, in my opinion. I began by introducing meats, although adding veggies first would have been a lot smarter in my case in order to add variety to the diet, as I did not mind eating trout at all.
I will begin the e-diet again, as fall airborne allergies were mixing my results also.
If I were you, I would not begin the e-diet without being certain you can maintain it the full 4 weeks. Apart from the 6 e-days, one must fully benefit from the following 21 days to test foods. Plus, when you DO find an allergen, it sets you back until symptoms abait before testing new foods.
In the meantime, I hope your practionner has suggested cod-liver oil (1 tablespoon per 50lbs of body weight) plus vitamin e, at least 1600 i.u (if no heart condition), EFA's : Efamol evening primrose oil (8 capsules/day). Niacin until you flush. These supplements calm inflammation. Vitamin c to bowel tolerance (use mineral C if you have a sensitive tummy or bowel), plus calcium citrate as well as magnesium 2:1 ratio; at least 1200 mg of cal / 600 mg of magnesium per day. For rebuilding and cartilage regeneration.
Good-luck !
Marie-Josée
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Fran on October 25, 2003 at 13:27:50:
Hi Fran,
Bob McFerran suggests that you add 3 new items per day (one with each meal) IF there is no reaction. Generally, reactions occur soon enough after eating that you'd know it before your next normal meal.
Because your body only stays hypersensitive for around 21 days or so, it's important to test as many foods as you can in that time.
Of course, this assumes you are eating ONLY WHOLE foods.
If you do have a reaction you are supposed to wait until it passes before testing another food.
Hope this helps.
~~~8>
In Reply to: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Maggie on October 24, 2003 at 19:24:56:
Hi again, Maggie.
I really don't see how you can do it successfully. If you are going to be eating hotel food, there is really no way to tell exactly what you are eating. Even the staff won't really know...trust me! I've asked before about things, only to find out differently later, just because people don't really know the extent of what you're asking...like the fact that gravy generally has flour in it. Once I got rice thinking it was "safe" and it had wheatberries in it. This was after I asked the server about it...the cook finally looked at the ingredients and was surprised to see wheatberries. That's even if they'd bother to look!
What about waiting until after the trip?
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by labrat on October 26, 2003 at 14:20:00:
Hi labrat,
If there IS a reaction, how do you determine which of the 3 foods was responsible?
Forgive me for being dense if you have addressed this somewhere before.... But worst case, you could spend up to an additional week just trying to pin it down!
Since you have just 21 days to complete testing of all the foods, seems to me you could not afford to take the time to re-test but would need to just write off all 3 of those foods as no-no's, and move on. Makes sense or not?
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Jan S. on October 26, 2003 at 15:38:12:
No, Jan S., you would not have to re-test anything, because typically, a reaction will take place soon after you ingest the food. Like within a couple of hours. Most people go longer than that between breakfast, lunch and dinner.
SO, if you test a new food at breakfast, your reaction will occur before you have lunch, and likewise with lunch and dinner.
The exception is with grains and dairy, which can take days to show up, so McFerran suggests that if you even bother testing these foods, (he doesn't really recommend them for anyone) do it at the end of the testing phase, because you test ONLY that food for 3 or 4 days, 3 times a day.
Make better sense now?
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by labrat on October 26, 2003 at 16:48:24:
I see where the confusion is after re-reading your message..so just in case my last message didn't totally explain it -
You only test ONE new food per meal, and THAT's how you know which food gives the reaction.
So, IF no reaction by the next mealtime, then you can test the new food number 2 with your lunch, if no reaction to that food, then the third new food can be added to your dinner.
Hope this helps.
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Walt Stoll on October 25, 2003 at 07:27:50:
I'm sorry I don't believe this is as good as it gets!!! I have a long way to go, but I do believe I'll get there eventually. I understand if you are saying you don't think I'm prioritizing my health enough. I do wish I could prioritize it more, but at this point in my life I can't do so without leaving my husband and kids! So, I will continue, gathering information, and doing all that I can when I can. Thanks for this site, it is invaluable.
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Fran on October 25, 2003 at 13:27:50:
I understand the diet as Labrat is describing it. Grains and dairy would take longer, but for example I discovered I have a soy allergy withing about 10 minutes of eating it. Splitting migraine within minutes, literally. So, I do think it would be relatively easy to see a sensitivity within a short enough timeframe to squeeze in 3 a day, excepting grains and dairy. But, I'm having my doubts about my ability to do this before this trip anyway! I need to find another time when my husband is home I guess, perhaps around the holidays. Thanks for your input.
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Marie-Josée on October 25, 2003 at 22:37:13:
for your informative follow-up. I have been considering doing a less restrictive e-diet, but when I hear stories such as yours being allregic to beef and apples, it makes me think I should do the whole thing. What was your reaction to them? Although I can't help but be curious if the severe withdrawal people suffer on this diet is as much from lack of certain nutrients as from detoxification? Could it be that the body needs more phytonutrients than it is getting during this period? I suppose it will not be possible to do this diet as soon as I had hoped. I will have to wait until another period when my husband is home for at least a week, which doesn't happen frequently. Perhaps over the holidays. As for the supplements, I take fish oil, a series of b vitamins including niacinamide, calcium and magnesium similar to your suggestion, and n-acetyl cysteine and alpha lipoic acid. Also, a fiber supplement, fibersmart, twice a day. I am also learning to practive mindfulness based relaxation. Do you have RA? Have you been successful with diet and supplements? Any other info. would be appreciated!
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by labrat on October 26, 2003 at 14:27:40:
I am afraid you are right. Sounds like the withdrawal is a lot. I am just getting impatient and the inflammation is rough. I wish I could do something drastic, like the e-diet, sooner. My husband is traveling a lot for sometimes weeks at a time, and with two such little ones and no help it would be impossible, until I can schedule for a week he's home. Which is more than likely around Christmas... what a depressing time to do it! I have a question for you though...I am wondering why McFerran's e-diet causes such severe withdrawal, but many others do not...mainly others where one continues eating a lot of red and green veggies...phytonutrients, essentially. Is it possible the reaction is as much about lack of toxicity-fighting nutrients as detox itself? The dr. I am seeing recommends another diet for this reason...but I think I'd prefer to do McFerrans for the fact that it does start from zero. I think I'd get more info. Just wondered what you think? Thanks-
In Reply to: p.s. to Jan S... posted by labrat on October 26, 2003 at 16:52:38:
Crystal clear now, thanks!
In Reply to: Thanks, labrat... posted by Maggie on October 26, 2003 at 20:32:47:
No, I don't think it has anything to do with a lack of nutrients. In fact, for many people, the ediet foods would represent an INCREASE in nutrients compared to what they've been eating.
The reason McFerran's diet can cause more severe withdrawal is because it more completely removes the allergens.
If you read his posts in the archives, he likens it to trying to remove airborne allergens. If you were allergic to 7 different kinds of pollens and removed only one, how would you be able to tell that THAT one had caused a problem? You could go on and on removing a single allergen without being able to detect whether or not it was problematic. But if you could get yourself into a room with pure air and introduce the pollens one at a time, then you'd be able to tell what was bothering you.
I encourage you to keep reading his posts and try to understand his methods better. That will give you more confidence in the process and allow you to move forward with it without confusion. I am providing a link below to a site that has his writings more well organized than the archives here.
In the meantime, what are you still eating, Maggie? If I recall, last time we corresponded, you were still eating grain. How about dairy? Whole foods is good, but for someone with RA, a more specific approach will help reduce inflamation further. While you wait, you can still experiment with removing things like that, that are more likely than not to be causing you some trouble.
~~~8>
In Reply to: Thanks, labrat... posted by Maggie on October 26, 2003 at 20:32:47:
Maggie,
I am not so concerned with the withdrawal in the scenario that you described. Withdrawal doesn't last more than 4 or 5 days. If you got a really bad flu right now, what would you do? I think you'd make do somehow.
What I worry about more is the corruption of the testing. You would probably throw yourself back into a confusing mess of symptoms from eating hotel food while your body is still hyper sensitive. You'd have no way of knowing what was causing sypmtoms and would be miserable during your stay, and all for naught! You wouldn't get any good info to help you out of an experience like that.
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Thanks, labrat... posted by labrat on October 27, 2003 at 08:48:31:
Maggie,
I haven't followed all of your posts, but I wondered if you were still eating any/all of the nightshade vegetables--tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, potatoes? If so, maybe eliminating them would help improve your symptoms, in addition to labrat's suggestions.
Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: Thanks, labrat... posted by labrat on October 27, 2003 at 08:48:31:
Thanks, you are correct about everything, and I know it! I just need another step. I am off sugar, dairy, soy, and all grain but brown rice in lmited quantities. I have to remind myself constantly that I have had this for 12 years, it won't go away overnight!!! I will do the e-diet at the earliest opportunity...
In Reply to: Re: Thanks, labrat...Are you eating nightshades? posted by Nutmeg on October 27, 2003 at 11:32:56:
Thanks, nutmeg. I have tried in the past eliminating all the nightshades and couldn't tell a difference, except that I missed eating them tremendously as they give whole foods so much flavor! But, it might be worth another look...
In Reply to: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Maggie on October 24, 2003 at 19:24:56:
Hi Maggie,
I have an inflammatory condition, not yet specificaly diagnosed. RF : 600-1200, Sed : 20. Negative ANA, C-Reactive protein OK.
All the supplements I mentioned in my previous post have done me a lot of good. All the good oils douse the inflammation AND nourish the immune system. I have been eating organic foods for over 20 years, and have always been very concious of the importance of eating well. I think this has helped me avoid a big deterioration of my condition. I have been feelin ill for the past 3 years, but the high SED rate and RF have just recently shown up.
I would visit Dr Mercola's web site and opt for his eating plan. I have an iflammatory bowel, so I try to stick to the SCD diet, which does me a lot of good. I eat low fiber veggies, meat, low fibre fruits, and a linseed / almond milkshake to get my bowels moving in a gentle way. The only fats I consume are the cod liver / evening of primrose oil / vitamin E capsules. When I stick to my plan I feel really good. My plan does not include diary, nor grains. Not eating any carbs is very difficult. I usually have a relapse of some kind during week-ends.
I have ordered Leo Gallands book entitled Power Healing. Dr Galland, as Dr Stoll, is familiar with LGS, and believes it to be the source of auto-immune conditions. He uses EFA's extensivley. He also maintains that auto-immune diseases are linked to faulty protein metabolism and promotes the use of digestive enzymes, pancreatin in particular. I can't wait to read the book. I'm quite encouraged, as there seems to be many solutions to our problem. Dr Galland does not appear to promote the use of meds to treat candida, but appears to recommend grape seed extract and the such. So it's very interesting.
As for your question concerning withdrawal / detoxification, I think Labrat has the answers. I agree that the e-diet is often much healthier than the SAD diet.
Maggie, why don't you try doing the e-diet just after your trip ? I'm planning to do it again on November 22nd, just in time for X-mas. If you want, we can do it together and ecourage each other on the way. I think you have small children, and I think you should really try getting help from days 2 thru 4. Could a family member come and stay with you to care for your children ? Perhaps you could hire a babysitter ? Dr Mansfield, from whom Robert McFerran gleened parts or all of the e-diet really relates RA to food allergies, the 15% few who don't have food allergies have other parasites doing thier thing : Proteus and K (something) bacteria. He has great results. You can visit his website by searching the internet for The Burghwood clinic.
I also began SR. I resisted this part of the wellness stool for a long time. I have visited this site on and off for about a year, and did not think SR was that important. I began doing it when I began the e-diet in September, and it is very helpful. I have to admit that I was bracing (and still am) a lot. I must also admit that it appears to be a BIG leg on the wellness stool, and I will have to thank Dr Stoll for showing me the way. He is the only authority that promotes and insists that healing will not occur on a profound level without the resolution of bracing. I do a very simple creative visualization technique that I learned from Shakti Gawain's book entiled : Creative Visualization.
Also, I would visit the Road Back Foundation, and would try the minocin antiobiotic therapy. I think some on these boards will disagree, but I will be seeing a doc shortly who is familiar with this approach. I think inflammatory conditions need to be taken seriously, and this approach obviously works. I personaly think that the antibiotics work in an immunosuppresive mode, and perhaps allow the immune system to rest and recover. Many people appear to have done the antibiotic protocol, have recovered and have not had to take other courses of the meds. I think doing the e-diet, avoiding allergens, doing SR, nourishing the immune system with good fats, plus giving it a break through the antibiotic protocol can be complementary.
Anyway, this is my wellness plan, and I'll keep you informed.
You can reach me off boards, if you wish, at the following address : mjmp@videotron.ca
In Reply to: Re: Thanks, labrat...Are you eating nightshades? posted by Maggie on October 27, 2003 at 20:28:29:
I agree with your comments, Maggie. I could probably live without potatoes, but I can't imagine life without peppers and tomatoes! I've tried eliminating them for a trial period too, in case they are contributing to my fibromyalgia, but with no clear results. I guess the e-diet or other fasting plan is the way to tell for sure.
Wishing you the best,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Marie-Josée on October 27, 2003 at 20:37:50:
Thanks, Marie-Josee`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: To those who have done e-diet...planning to do it, is this even possible? posted by Marie-Josée on October 27, 2003 at 20:37:50:
for all the wonderful information. I have also been reading this site for about a year now. I have "polyatypical arthritis", which means I am seronegative for the RF but nonetheless very inflamed for the last 12 years. I have fused wrists and am mostly affected in my hands and feet. I don't know my levels, I have avoided the rheumatologist since he began pushing methotrexate. I am seeing a holistic m.d. who focuses on diet and supplementation, and is very open minded. I have been taking the supplements for only a few weeks, but do not yet notice any effects. Contrary to you, I have had a terrible diet for most of my life, but now since becoming more knowledgeable am working very hard to improve and eliminate my past habits. This is my hardest battle, I think. I just bought the No Grain Diet book by Mercola and am looking forward to reading it. I am also taking a class in SR, which I have been practicing for some time but had begun to doubt my effectiveness. Hope it will help. I will check out the method you recommend, too. I also read Dr. Mansfield's book and I must admit it looks promising. I would definitely like to do it soon, my goal would be to complete it, or almost complete it before my scheduled next visit to the Rheumatologist on Dec. 17. I would definitely have to arrange childcare somehow, which would be difficult, but I am determined to make this work somehow. The only possible problem with beginning on the 22nd is that is the week before Thanksgiving here, which would, for me, be an extremely difficult time to stick to a diet such as this. Not that I mind sacrificing, but when the entire day revolves around a big meal and we have accepted an invitation to share the day with a group of acquaintances at their home it might be awkward. But, I would be very willing to attempt to start it the day following Thanksgiving, 11/28. Perhaps Thanksgiving could be my last hoorah! I have read about minocin therapy in the past, too, and have mixed emotions about it. Wonder what it does to your gut when you are working so hard to repair it? Stay in touch, you are an interesting person to discuss with! Also, please send your shake recipe for linseed almond shake... Thanks!
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