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i remember someone on here sayign they were ordering this cd. did you? i ordered it and have been using it for a week. i find it relaxing but my wanders wanders quite a bit so i know i am not reaching the desired state a lot of the time. i was just reading the cd insert and it says it takes you from an alpha state to a delta state. i am confused by this. aren't we supposed to be going from beta to alpha? and isn't delta a state we acquire in sleep and so not a state desired for sr?
thanks
m
In Reply to: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1575] on December 01, 2004 at 00:01:19:
Hi Monique,
A Latin major... no doubt
I prefer the "Gamma sleep" myself :)
Ron
In Reply to: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1575] on December 01, 2004 at 00:01:19:
You are right. Delta is a state we experience while sleeping. Alpha is the one we should aim for. SR should aim for 8Hz ideally. 8Hz is borderline between alpha and theta.
14Hz and above - Beta
8-12 Hz - Alpha
4-8 Hz - Theta
0-4 Hz - Delta
So, based on your CD, I don't think it is useful as Dr Stoll intended. Did you try GSR 2 Temp or centerpointe.com - both of them extremely effective though a bit pricey.
North*Star
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by North*Star [1935.1042] on December 01, 2004 at 11:52:41:
thanks nstar. i'll look into them. i feel ticked off atmercolab/c he touts insight as as effecxtive as centerpointe. guess i nowknow why it's cheaper.
m
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by Ron [181.1617] on December 01, 2004 at 00:07:24:
hi ron
ha ha is this a purejoke or didyou choose gamma for a reason?
m
obviously not a latin major ;o)
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1319] on December 01, 2004 at 11:55:25:
Actually, Dr. Stoll has said that alpha AND deeper frequencies are what we should aim for during our SR sessions. Don't discount the Insight CDs hastily.
Also, the fact that your mind wanders does NOT necessarily mean that you are not reaching the desired state. The mind is known to do different things while you are "under", not necessarily sitting idle and not producing any thoughts and feelings.
In Reply to: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1575] on December 01, 2004 at 00:01:19:
Hi, monique. Don't toss your Awakened Minds CD yet!
Just adding to what the others said...
First, "alpha state" means the brain is producing a *predominance* of alpha waves. We always have a mixture of all the brain waves no matter what state we're in.
Re: the delta, usually you arrive at delta at only in sleep, but for some reason binaural entrainment CDs allow us to produce substantial delta waves even in our waking consciousness.
The Awakened Minds CD claims to give you a "layered" effect in which more of the other brainwaves are present too, along with the predominant brainwave you are targeting, therefore (they claim) it gives you not only that state, but a more beneficial state which fosters growth in the same way Centerpointe does, but using only one CD. (Centerpointe fosters growth over many CDs over years).
Well personally, I don't know about AM's growth claim, I'm just reporting what they say. But it shouldn't matter for your purposes..... getting to alpha and below.
BTW I use Awakened Minds' Focus CD to enhance the Beta state for task-oriented activities, since I tend to have too much alpha/theta intruding on my beta when it shouldn't be (means I'm scatterbrained, lol). I find it quite effective for this.
IMO you could use Awakened Minds Insight CD for SR as long as you test yourself with biofeedback (as you would do in any case).
In Reply to: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1575] on December 01, 2004 at 00:01:19:
Hi, Monique.
Must be an advertizing gimmic. Delta, while awake, is reserved to only the most accomplished Zen masters after many years of practice. I would not worry about it.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1319] on December 01, 2004 at 11:56:37:
Hi Monique,
First of all, it was easier to spell than "omicron".
Second.. I movie I saw had some sorority girls in it.
Third... When I wake up in the morning I can say
"Gee!.. That was a good sleep."
Ron
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by Jan S. [535.81] on December 01, 2004 at 16:59:17:
thanks jan. will get tested and see what i find. my mind wanders so much when i am doing it that i know i am not getting where i need to be. any advice?
m
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on December 02, 2004 at 06:44:33:
Must be an advertizing gimmic.
Good answer, Walt! It shows that you are not much different from the rest of the crowd... which mainly denies validity of your methods. The crows cheers!....
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1319] on December 02, 2004 at 21:20:24:
Transcendental meditation people tell a story in cases like this. They have monitored brainwaves of people while they were practicing TM, and one woman approached monitors after a session and said that she thought that she failed the session because a lot of mind chatter she had. The monitors told her that brainwaves they registered in her during the session were the lowest they had ever registered in anyone. The moral of the story is what I said in my other reply to you.
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? Archive. posted by R. [27.1490] on December 04, 2004 at 00:39:56:
Thanks, R, I guess?????????
Perhaps you have little knowledge (surely not enough) of the basic functions of the differfent wave lengths in the brain?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1319] on December 02, 2004 at 21:20:24:
hi monique,
I've been using Insight for quite some time. I was never competely convinced it was useful for me.
Because of some symptoms of nervousness that were a new thing for me, I decided yesterday to go back to what was working for me before. That is brainsync and some aidless relaxation techniques. You might give brainsync a try. Probably find something used on the net for cheap. I got my last one for about $5 including shipping form ebay. Then you would have a comparison. You can also do any number of focus, mediation techniques while listening to occupy you mind and help with state.
Good luck!
Is this your first attempt at SR?
Sounder
In Reply to: Re: insight cd and sr - alpha to delta vs. beta to alpha?? posted by monique [1040.1319] on December 02, 2004 at 21:20:24:
Hi monique,
my mind wanders so much when i am doing it that i know i am not getting where i need to be. any advice?
For daily quota of "SR", DO learn to feel & recognize the alpha state. Just because an EEG says I'm in an alpha state, it doesn't help unless I practice what it feels like to be aware of that. (That's why they call it bioFEEDBACK.) We all have a 'monkey mind' - it goes with the territory. Do you have the book "Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook"? There are many approaches in there. If at first you 'think' it isn't working, it probably is... just keep at it and get VERY familiar, daily, with how it is for you.
Now, Centerpointe (and to lesser extent Awakened Minds) say it doesn't matter what you feel, just slap the headphones on and listen. I'd have to disagree if the sole purpose is to do *SR* as distinct from the other stuff in those programs.
Hope this helps, not further confuses!
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