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Hi everybody,
After a very long plateau in my health improvement, I am experiencing a relapse of my health problems, depsite a theoretically very "healty" livestyle in the last 2 years. I am then greatly questionning the effectiveness of skill relaxation (at least for me).
I started doing SR twice a day 28 months ago and before that period I have been doing it once a day for 3 months. Despite that, I am still stuck with joint and back pains, dawn cold hands and feet and others same few annoying problems I had for years. I admit that I did not do it religiously every time and I missed it occasionnally, but after 2 years I should get the results anyway. (I do not mention here all the other things I did also: diet, supplements, exercise, etc.)
The first thing I don't clearly understand, is how can we evacuate the stress effect by relaxing? I clearly understand the physiological benefic effect of SR WHILE we are doing it. But between sessions, WHAT WILL KEEP MY BODY RELAXED? As an example, in my particular case, I experience very often cold hands (a clear indicator of stress effect). Usually, with SR I manage to warm them up rather quickly. Once I checked it with a temperature sensor that I use at work. At the begining of my SR session, my finger was at about 72 degF (room temperature) after about 10 minutes, it was at 94. The problem, is that 15 min after my SR session, my hands are usually back to dawn cold.
The best way of getting rid of the fight or flight effect isn't it to actually FIGHT OR RUN? I MEAN ACTION in order to evacuate the stess. How can we evacuate stress without burning energy? This doesn't seam natural in my mind. Is it possible that different metabolisms evacuate the stress by different means? (This is what Peter d'adamo is suggesting, if I remember well, even if he wrongly simplify it by matching metabolism to blood type)
I need to read a book that explain the theory behing the benefits of SR, not a "recipes" book like "The relaxation & Stress reduction workbook". I simply cannot learn to "blindly" do something if I don't understand why I am doing it and and how it really works almost at the molecular level. That's maybe why I did not get results so far.
What book should I read? Is "The Relaxation Response" by Benson a good choice?
The second basic question I am asking myself, is:
Is it possible that bad experiences during childhood could sometimes cause psychological effects (that would be translated in stress effect) that SR could not erase?
From even before I was born, my father has been a manic-depressive alcoholic, with a very controlling and aggressive attitude. Without getting into the details, I can tell you that my childhood has been far from relaxing and fun. Also, despite the fact that I was a very quiet child and that I was always getting perfect scores at elementary school, I was always getting a lot less toys and gifts than my friends. On top of that, all my life, I always been skinny (particularly when I was a child) and the other (bigger) childs many times were physically rough and abused me. All this has store a great amount of rage and frustration and I wonder how I can get rid of it. I don't really believe SR will do it. Maybe I need to see a psychologist who practice hypnotic regressions in order to pop-up some traumatic events. I don't know.
I will make a confession. What would really relax me, is to beat someone to death. I feel like a loaded spring, or a fully charged capacitor, ready to discharged its energy. The only thing I am waiting for is a logical and legitimate reason to act: Someone that would raise a hand over my wife or my daughter or a rubber who would penetrate in my house, etc. I am sometimes dreaming that such an even happend, I almost wish it. I must evacuate that rage inside me, with action.
Not surprinsing I have health problems.
What should I do? Give me suggestions please.
Thanks
Serge
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
Have you tried a punching bag to release stress or aggressive exercise
In Reply to: Re: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by gary on December 16, 2002 at 08:39:24:
I have been thinking of that idea for a while. It would certainly help to release aggresivity. But I did not tried it because, since I still have inflammation, I am affraid it would probably damage my hand and wrist joints. The same reason apply to jogging or aggressive sport, it would damage my knees.
Serge
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
I too used to suffer from cold hands and feet. However, I have found one method that works extremely well. Take two capsules of cayenne peper once or two times daily with meals. This starts to take affect in fifteen minutes and lasts the entire day for me. Also check out the website keep hope alive. Its primary fuction is to help those afflicted by aids and other such diseases, but I belive you may find some helpful information there.
Research other optionsbesides SR. There are many paths to optimal health. Perhaps SR is not the best one for you.
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
Well, Serge, that was a brutally honest post! I think it stands to reason that some percentage of unfortunate people will create stress faster than generic SR can discharge it. These people have huge unresolved conflicts within, and well-worn paths leading to those problem areas. I think you are right to think you may need counseling of some kind, so you can root out and face these issues.
I don't know what kind of SR you practice, but another kind might work better. Centerpointe might be an area to research, for example.
Truly, until you free yourself from the perpetual rage, you will never be totally well and whole. I wish you good luck!
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
I also have that kind of rage problem and I take lithium which makes a world of difference. It keeps me calm and relaxed and I feel so much better when I'm taking it.
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
Hi, Serge.
First, for understanding: Benson's book might help, "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" would go deeper and "The Stress of Life" for the basic research.
I see no mention of your diet or of exercise. What are you doing about that? Remember that SR is worth 3 points, SR and exercise is worth 9 points and SR, exercise and a whole foods diet is worth 27 points. Your genetic history says you may be genetically susceptible and so might need to work harder and longer for the same results.
Finally the punching bag sounds like a good idea to me. Under water aeorbics would be right for you.
Let us know about the above.
Walt
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
Serge, it's a strong individual who sees his vulnerabilities and tries to do something about them.
I think the experts are saying that behind rage is, in reality, fear. If you are not bi-polar, perhaps you should seek counsel to examine those fears. Perhaps you feel the world is out of control (and why not). Read the first two chapters of the Bible. It may add a new dimension to your thinking.
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
Serge,
I would highly encourage you to seek out some type of counseling, in combination with exercise and continuing your SR.
A certified counselor/hypnotherapist is not a bad idea. Sounds like you are aware of your past, so you may not really need to go back to it with the idea of bringing up repressed memories. But, it can be very healing to work with someone to acknowledge those memories, realize how they have contributed to making you the way you are, make certain you have forgiven those responsible, accept yourself as you are today, don't beat yourself up by applying today's knowledge to the past, and move on from there. There are tools in hypnotherapy can help with this, but I'm sure a good counselor can help you deal with this as well. Choose carefully and go with what/who feels right.
I have had tremendous physical and emotional benefits in the past month from working with several healing practitioners. I had a naturopathic physician point out to me during a neurocranial restructuring session that he could not get through to let the technique work in several pain-blocked areas of my body. He suggested that I would never receive the full benefits of the therapy until I released the emotional trauma locked up in those areas. I knew immediately what that must be from--physical and emotional trauma from a serious car accident followed by an assault on the street the next day. These events occurred over 20 years ago. I knew the physical pain from the accident was still with me, but I thought I had processed the emotional pain of the attack and released it. Instead it was buried so deep that I couldn't see it and the pain from the accident the day before was locked up with it in my most vulnerable areas.
Through an amazing set of 'coincidences', I have met the healers who can guide through a transformation, and have begun working with them. I have experienced a dramatic reduction in pain, increased benefits from SR (I often do 40-60 minutes at a time now and I don't want to stop!), the ability to go deeper during SR and hypnosis in a small, safe group setting, incredible insights into who I really am, freeing myself from the limitations of a heavy barrier that I layered around myself in the past 20 years, and a tremendous amount of new hope and energy that I never had before. I truly believe that if we keep our hearts and minds open and believe that the right opportunities will come our way, that it will happen when the time is right. The time was definitely right for me, and I am not the same person I was 3 weeks ago. Even I can see it on my face. This process has been amazingly freeing, and I know it will continue as long as I allow it. One of the counselors pointed out to me today that I was beginning to slip back into old habits and patterns of behavior. What a wake-up call--no wonder my pain is coming back and I am feeling a little down. Thank God for that phone call. She gave me tools to dig myself out.
Since you have ongoing joint problems, maybe you could avail yourself of a health club or community center where you can use machines like an airdyne exercycle or rowing machine (or water aerobics, swimming as Dr. Stoll suggested) to give yourself a workout without too much joint stress. Look for a place that's inexpensive or offers a trial membership so you don't get in too deep, financially, until you see whether this will work for you.
What SR method are you using? Are you doing progressive relaxation? Going from head to foot tightening and relaxing each group of muscles may help you quite a bit with the muscle tensing problem. I do that when I can't sleep or can't get into my typical SR routine.
It sounds like you are really trying to heal yourself and are on the verge of a major breakthrough. Identifying your particular barriers and weaknesses, as you are doing, is a huge part of the battle. Finding a productive way to apply that aggressive energy you feel in a way that benefits and heals you is the next task. Keep thinking and stretching and asking questions. Wishing you the best.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
Hi Serge C.
In addition to the other people's excellent suggestions: Some people need to spend more than 40 minutes a day working on relaxation.
Self-awareness all day long can help. Start finding out what makes you tense and what makes you relax. Then begin to decrease the former and increase the latter.
Also, be aware of what parts of the body you tense up more than others and work on trying to relax them.
Do you drink coffee or caffeine? Go off of them, slowly.
Daily stretching practice can also help reduce bodily and nervous system tension.
The counseling suggestion for anger resolution sounds like a good idea.
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: Re: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Walt Stoll on December 17, 2002 at 09:37:44:
Thanks Walt,
I will order the Benson book. For Mind as a healer..., it's out of print and hard to get. I tried several times to get a used copy without success. I will try again. I will also try to get a copy of The stress of life.
In the meantime, do you have general answers to my questions? Especially this one:
"Is it possible that bad experiences during childhood could sometimes cause psychological effects (that would be translated in stress effect) that SR could not erase?"
About the punching bag, I supposed I would have to protect carefully my hands in order to do it, with something better than the usual training glove. Don't you think I could damage my joints with the impacts? (However, my elbows and wrists have never been really painfull, but my hand joints yes).
I tried to do a lot of exercice in my pool last summer and didn't really notice any improvement. I think the "impact" effect of aggressive sport might have a distinct effect on the psychological side (only a personnal theory).
I think I will try the punching bag. The only question now is to find the proper place in the house to hang the bag.
Serge
In Reply to: Re: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Sally on December 17, 2002 at 10:55:43:
Hi Sally,
That's a fact that I find the world out of control. Actually, like I said in an old post once, many things in the world exasperate me most of the time, especially the bad effect capitalism has on the life (and health) of people. The pharmaceutic industries control the health care system with the effect we know. Close to me, as an engineer, I cannot design machines the way I would like, with the best efficiency, because they would be too expensives and the consumer would simply buy the cheapest ones. Sometimes, it's even worse, we must build a machine a stupid way, less efficient and at a higher cost, simply because our big boss want to copy the competition or because that's simply what the client wants (but the client has no scientific knowledge and should take this kind of decision on a normal world, but he has the money...) The consequence of that is utility vehicles that polute almost twice has much as they should which has again a negative impact on the health of people. Same thing apply to cars.
Sometimes I feel that I don't fit in that stupid world, and that I am right and the world is wrong. But, I try not to go too far in that way of thinking because it's dangerous and would lead me nowhere.
I wish that a great suddend change will occur in the world, but unfortunately this could propably occur in the form of a third world war. That's sad.
I will certainly read the Bible eventually when I will find the time.
Thanks
Serge
In Reply to: Re: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Sally on December 17, 2002 at 10:55:43:
Little mistake here
I wanted to say:
"the client has no scientific knowledge and should NOT take this kind of decision..."
In Reply to: Re: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 19, 2002 at 12:48:08:
Thanks, Serge.
Your public library can find almost anything out of print. Free, too!
Walt
In Reply to: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 15, 2002 at 23:24:59:
I would really appreciate if you could archive that whole thread in order for me to save it in the archive format.
Thanks
Serge
In Reply to: Re: Fundamental question on Stres effect and SR posted by Serge C. on December 20, 2002 at 13:06:01:
Serge, You are between the proverbial rock and a hard place, no wonder you suffer. Actually, Jesus Christ was a misfit because he was righteous, just as you are trying to be, and we know what happened to him. I don't like to use up Walt's board space with spiritual discussions but you would be amazed how enlightening it would be for your own peace of mind, for instance something that applies even today from Ezekiel 9:4 an instruction from God to a man with an inkhorn to "pass through the midst of the city and mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done". Actually this whole world is at enmity with God (James 4:4) and for the same reasons which cause your frustration. Try to hang on to your integrity and keep a good conscience. Please give these scriptures a try Serge, it would be well worth your time:
1John 5:19, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:1-3, Psalm 37:10,11,29 There's an explanation for everything.
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