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I know this will probably be dismissed as a prank post, but I am serious.
Is it possible that those of us who grew up with daily stress such as beatings, sexual abuse, verbal abuse or just plain old being afraid we'd be killed each day, don't function very well when we get out into a calmer world? That our bodies and minds don't know how to deal with calmness instead of violence?
I was thinking about Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. From what I've heard, he had a very controlling, even abusive father. He functioned great, produced incredible music, while his father was still dominating him. But once he got away from his father, and into a calmer, more peaceful environment, he fell apart. It wasn't until he got a baby-sitter type psychologist (one who stayed with him all day every day)that he was able to regain anything close to normal functioning.
I grew up around the Army and have heard soldiers talking about how the only time they ever really felt alive was in very stressful training situations or combat. And those were the times they recalled with the greatest fondness. I also noticed that those same soldiers talked about growing up in alcoholic homes where they were beaten etc.
I myself felt great during strenuous training in the Army, or during the Gulf War, better than in "real life." I wasn't depressed, I was actually much more calm and felt at home.
I know that many systems including the brain are plastic and being modeled during childhood. That experiences a child has can shape his or her health, leave different pathways in the brain, lead to different chemicals being produced in the body.
Is it possible that for those of us who grew up with abuse, abuse is our "air" and when we get out into a gentler world, it's as if we are trying to breathe water and we get sick?
That maybe we get sick not so much from stress in our younger years but rather from a lessening of stress in our adult years?
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
Hi, Isis.
Personally, I prefer the calm that is my life today. It wasn't always this way. There have been some great struggles. At first, calm felt uncomfortable and unfamiliar. But believe me, I got used to it very fast and far prefer it to upset.
Sylvia
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
Thank you, Syl. But do you have any chronic diseases, or did you develop any after your life became more calm? I sometimes wonder if there is a connection...
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
I sat in on a lecture about a brain chemical called oubain (I have no idea if that is the correct spelling) But the lecturer taught that this chemical is released in some people during high stress situations and it is very addictive. In fact, some people may stay in dangerous situations because of the release of oubain. As an example I will use a woman in an abusive marriage who is being beaten regularly by her man. If she experienced the release of oubain and became addicted to it, that could cause her to remain in the dangerous relationship OR it could cause her to get back into a dangerous situation. Conversely, if one were in a stressful situation in which oubain was released in the brain, then got out of the situation but still needed the oubain, that person would experience some type of craving--whether it is a psychological craving or a somatic craving depends on the way the person processes things.
On the other hand, I have seen numerous times that people who are in longterm highly stressful situations and get out of such begin to experience all the unexpressed emotions about a year later. Say you were being beaten by a significant other. To stay alive in such situations, you, like many others, would not verbalize your true anger nor would you dare verbalize how you really feel in the situation. Then imagine that you are rescued and in a safe place. As your psyche really begins to accept that safety, your mind, spirit, body will begin to express what they were too afraid to express earlier in the situation. Do you understand? I see that very frequently with women who have been physically and/or sexually abused. Their expressions once they experience safety are usually rage and extreme anger, sometimes sadness. But I don't remember any getting sick. Most were already physically ill and just didn't take the time to address their own needs and deal with it.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Anita [617.613] on April 01, 2004 at 17:33:50:
Thank you, Anita. That does explain a lot. My brother, sister and I are all "adrenaline addicts" or more accurately "oubain addicts" LOL!
It took me until I was 30 to stop putting myself in abusive relationships or seeking danger other ways (airborne school, always wanting to be where the action was military-wise).
My brother and sister have their own addictions, own problems.
I haven't experienced any of the feelings that I'm supposed to experience, I was raped from toddlerhood on and yet I feel completely numb when I talk about it or remember it. I feel more emotion watching a movie. I am told that I have dissasociated from it.
So maybe my body getting sick is the way I express the feelings. I wish it wouldn't though. Being sick just makes life so much harder.
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
Under stress with living on the edge with creativity and not knowing what is around the corner is a little different then the stress of abuse.
Know matter how you look at it sooner or later we will have had enough of that behaviour being around us or getting into it, it does take a toll on the body;
It does take awhile for a person to get use to a calm life but when gets use to it they will never want the other way of life with sick behaviour;
Do you know that in some countries it is custom for a father to sleep with his daughter before marriage and if he doesn't she feels more stress then if he does.
It is just a point that it is all in the conditioning, and hanging on to that creates our misery not always the act.
Any time i hang onto a concept or belief system it separates me from enjoying the now moment; Certainly can not move intuitively; Moving intuitively is where the Freedom is and one needs a quiet mind to do so.
Sounds like one can get addicted to anything hanging onto there memory of the known to the point it is difficult to have a new life;
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 17:03:02:
Hello Isis,
I have arthritis, allergies, and mild asthma (allergy related). I had these conditions prior to my life becoming more calm. Both parents have arthritis, so I attribute my arthritis to genetics. One parent has allergies, so that may be genetic, too. We also live in an area with a higher level of pollution, which doesn't help.
Now, as for anxiety and panic attacks. They are pretty much non-existent since my life took a turn for the calm. And the above conditions are milder as well.
Sylvia
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
Isis,
I decided to post to you up here, as I'm not sure you'll go back into any other threads at this point [your departure].
I accept your apology, and I do wish you the very best in life and in health.
sincerely,
gabriella
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
Boredom is also stressful, although you wouldnt think so.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Terri-Lynn [124.953] on April 01, 2004 at 18:30:11:
According to Walt's book, ALL types of stress (even excitement) have exactly the same effect on the body.
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
I can see where geting away from problems to a calmer situation could cause problems unless one is stressed or Occupied in that without something to distract you Could make you remember bad times.
I have felt the best when stressed BUT only when the stress was Good stress and I could handle it. Exercize or playing sports is stress but so is fighting and they aren't the same.
If you don't think you need a shrink then I would try making sure you are involved in things. One way to feel good when calm is to be able to come to terms with what went before and understand it. Then when something does come into your mind, you can push it away. See the weakneses or problems those who abused you Must have had and realize that Now you have the power and ability to deal with it.
I always liked things that stressed me physically and mentally since it felt SO good to relax and recover after. Many times when doing some easy physical things that didn't take much mental thought, like washing the car, my mind would wander and I would sort out problems. My childhood was probably Very stressful at times since there were a lot of problems but Also there were a Lot of good times and experiences and I have wondered if washing the family car with my dad were times we really connected and he told and taught me things and later I remembered that and it made me use that time and action to solve problems. Usually by time I was finished I had sorted through all the things that had bothered me since the last time I did it and the car was clean and I got a workout.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by gabriella [87.890] on April 02, 2004 at 00:56:35:
Thank you, Gabriella. It means so much to me that you accepted my apology. :)
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Vince F [1912.9] on April 02, 2004 at 06:03:45:
That's just the thing - I HAVE forgiven the people who abused me. I have no anger towards them, feel nothing but sorrow that they couldn't have been more whole people, and feel sorry that this kind of thing is still going on today.
But anyone would say, being raped as a toddler on is very traumatic, especially physically (I am not able to bear children for instance) and so there ought to be some kind of feeling stored up - but - no - I don't feel a thing. My counselor and psychiatrist think that is a sign of dissociation - not being properly connected to myself - compartmentalizing it. They say that a person can only be well if they FEEL the feelings and don't stuff them away somewhere....
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Maz [1200.624] on April 02, 2004 at 02:54:58:
That's true! I think that's part of the reason some jobs are very stressful.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Syl [705.883] on April 01, 2004 at 17:00:54:
I like my life very well now, but I don't like being sick....
You know I have a retired gynecologist friend who says that I have IC from stress (like Walt says) specifically from having grown up being raped, and that there is nothing I can do about it now. That to be well, what I really needed was a different childhood.
There was a comment made about how in some cultures, it's normal for the father to sleep with the daughter before marriage, and that it would be more stressful if this did not occur because of the belief system.
I'll bet in that culture the young bride is not three years old though. I'll bet she is physically mature at the time and therefore able to handle intercourse.
Rape at that age is stressful not so much because of the belief system but because of the extreme pain of ripping open an undeveloped vagina.
As an aside, I think it's interesting that just because I mention my past, some people assume that I am "holding on to it" or have not "gotten over it." I think they assume that if I had gotten over it, I would no longer include it in my past history, that I would pretend it never happened?
I was bitten by a dog when I was in my early 20's, too. Ankle ripped open, five stitches. Am I over it? Sure. Do I still remember it if i think about it, or mention it when people are talking about aggressive dogs, or during a medical examination, when a doc asks what happened there? Sure. Same thing with growing up being raped and beaten.
I don't mention that I was raped as a toddler in polite speech, but I mention it in medical circumstances (like this board where we talk about stress and its effects on health) to show that I had a considerable source of stress in childhood that may affect my health.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:09:52:
***As an aside, I think it's interesting that just because I mention my past, some people assume that I am "holding on to it" or have not "gotten over it." I think they assume that if I had gotten over it, I would no longer include it in my past history, that I would pretend it never happened?***
I think the best thing to do is ignore those kind of ignorant, heartless comments from people, Isis. I bet if they went through those experiences themselves, they would not be so quick to dismiss it.
No one should tell you to "get over it", "move on" etc. That is downright insensitive.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 07:15:02:
I think they make those comments because the subject matter is "taboo" and they are trying to urge me to never speak of it again.
In fact, Andrew Vachhs (sp?) a prominent child advocate in the U.S., said that there is no incest taboo - that what is taboo is talking about it or trying to do something about it.
The reason abuse of children has thrived has been this kind of social pressure to not talk about it.
If a child rapist rapes his own granddaughter or daughter or other relative, he can be assured that the social pressure to be quiet about the abuse will allow him complete unfettered freedom to rape infants (can you say disemboweled people)with no consequences to him for his actions.
In this country, the U.S., there is a real campaign of panic to portray the abuser as being some man out there on the street. Parents meet their children at the bus stop rather than allowing them to walk half a block to home, and will not allow them to play outside unsupervised.
What people fail to understand is that by far the largest majority (95% maybe?) of child abuse is done by parents, siblings, trusted ones (medical, religious leaders, etc.) and not by the boogie man. But no one speaks up about the parents or older siblings doing it, because that's "taboo" to talk of such things. And if you do, you get "aren't you over it yet? Quit holding on to such memories..."
In Reply to: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:33:32:
You know what?
Taboo or not,
I would tell 'em to pi$$ off , get stuffed~! No, really. The nerve of people. where do they get off telling you stuff like that. Oooooh, they need a good kick in the behind~!
OR
you know waht else? keep talking about it to them, keep talking and talking about it, and just annoy the friggin hell out of them for making you feel like you should "get over it".
I want to tell you something though. there are ALWAYS consequences for these molesters actions. Althogh you may not see it right away. I definitely believe in karma, one way or another, the universe will see to it, that things are righted.
Another comment. I have some experience with what you are talking about. I was also sexually molested, not raped, that was much later in my life, but I was molested as a child. I have been able to forgive. But it's taken me a long time to do that. the person who molested me has passed on a long time ago, so there was no confronting that could be done. it was too late for that.
some distant cousins of mine were molested sexually by their grandfther. they did tell! Good on 'em I say! they had courage.They told their family, and didn't hide the truth. The man eventually killed himself. couldn't llive with what he had done. So why do these things! People shold think before they commit heinous crimes. Ask themselves, "can I live with myself if I do this or whatever it is they want to do.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 07:45:17:
I'm sorry you went throught this too. I think that those who have never experienced this have a hard time understanding what it feels like to be a child and to have this done to them.
Perhaps they would understand better if they could remember a time in childhood when they had been beaten up and bullied. Then they could imagine a whole childhood filled with that, several times a week, and then maybe they would understand.
What's interesting if you read the replies here on this topic you will see versions of the "get over it" and "move on" Basically a couple of people here are advising to "let go" of these memories and feelings...so even people on this board fail to understand.
People do think before they commit these crimes. Never about the children - these people do not believe other people really exist in the world, everyone is an "object" of one sort or another - but they think about their own pleasure, and about the fact that they can intimidate a child into never telling, and so they will never face any penalties (in this life.)
I am glad your cousins told. I cheer each time someone is convicted, every time there is some consequence for a person molesting children.
A person on this thread said, think about the abusers, don't be angry with them, think how messed up they are, etc.
Well serial killers are messed up too but I don't hesitate to want to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives!
Really, many people have no clue unless it's happened to them.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:54:50:
P.S. Here is a portion of one such thread in this message that seems to advise me to not hang on to memories...if you look you will see that the person seems to be saying, that being raped as a 3-year-old really wasn't stressful at all if I just have the right attitude about it and remember it as a fond memory instead of a bad one...or "let the memory go" or whatever and have some amnesia so that I am not aware it ever happened...says I can't have a new life as long as I can actually remember what happened to me...guess I need a lobotomy, I am not aware of how to stuff back a memory to the point where it is no longer able to be retrieved. Besides, most mental health professionals will tell you, repressed memories are NOT a healthy thing...anyway, if you read this, do you hear that too, or is it just me misinterpreting it?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Do you know that in some countries it is custom for a father to sleep with his daughter before marriage and if he doesn't she feels more stress then if he does.
It is just a point that it is all in the conditioning, and hanging on to that creates our misery not always the act.
Any time i hang onto a concept or belief system it separates me from enjoying the now moment; Certainly can not move intuitively; Moving intuitively is where the Freedom is and one needs a quiet mind to do so.
Sounds like one can get addicted to anything hanging onto there memory of the known to the point it is difficult to have a new life;
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:54:50:
Hi Isis
Hsave you ever tried EFT, emotional freedome technique.Its helped a lot of people.
R is a big proponent of it, and it's helped him to some degree. It basically takes the edge off huge emotional pain that you are going through.
I remember one time when I was using EFt, i had a "flashback" to a traumatic event from my childhood, and my mind literally went through the scene like it was playing back a video. I think sometimes to get over the trauma you have to go back "through" it, if you know what I mean, even if it's just in your own mind, a way of getting it out.
Thereis a lot of stuff on the net on EFT. You can even download the book for free.
check out the link.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 08:01:21:
Sounds like someone who is talking out of their waatoozee and have never gone through what you have.
SO EASY to give advice when this person has never gone through this situation, or walked in your shoes.
Tell 'em to take a hike, and have a nice day. ;-)
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 08:03:33:
.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 08:03:33:
.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:54:50:
as an abuse survivor (me-myself) and having received both significant therapy and training (as a peer tech as of this time - and when i refer to significant training, i mean over 10 years) i am well aware of those who deny with in our society. this will be a bit circuitous, so bear with...
freud initially addressed incest and abuse directly in his early writings. and as the allopathic community is want to do, his peers in the psychiatric and medical community told him that if he published them, he would be black balled. so he COMPLETELY revised his findings and theories and called everything regarding abuse (whether familial or non familial) FANTASY. very sad, and so destructive and this is upon what modern psychiatry is based. also, so typical of the allopathic model of BS.
back to what is at hand, it is more common and societally accepted to deny any of the occurances which are, in my opinion more like 3 people in 4 that are incestuously sexually assaulted, than to look at the horror and abberation of it, which has/have become the norm.
now to isis and your post. if you really think that you thrive in an insane atmosphere where your life is better, i feel very sorry for you. yes i feel pity. i have spent many years working to confront my demons and i now live in a sedate and calm environ. infact it has taken nearly 20 years to achieve this. i spend very little time around my family of origin (7 kids and both parents still alive NO we are not catholic)
the fight or flight/adrenaline rush/constant stress/drama/constant distraction state to which you are referring is just that. you have been deluded to think that insanity is a positive place/mind set in which to live.
i know that walt does not subscribe to the therapeutic model (talk therapy) however i do, and have seen great successes with it. assuming that one DOES THE WORK. and the work SUCKS sh*t. it is long, tedious uphill and pain filled. who wants that. noone. however, after many years in my life and watching others pursue this course, i have seen major and significant changes in people.
i shall stop there...
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by wm [1194.275] on April 02, 2004 at 08:15:19:
No.
Don't stop. That's really interesting, wm.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 17:03:02:
Hi Isis,
Wow, now that you said it that way I can relate. My life just prior to sudden onset RA was WAYYYYY stressful and hectic. Of course, I accepted this as the norm and didn't even recognize that I HAD stress at the time; just KNEW that I was "handling" it. After my life settled to a more even keel, and I actually had time to breathe, I woke up one morning unable to walk!
I know that the stress I'm speaking of is in no way the type of stress you're talking about (no history of abuse whatsoever), but just recognized myself in this short post. I've accepted that it will take long term (life long) SR and serious wellness to completely heal and to avoid future illness.
I don't miss the life I had, and believe that had I continued on that path, instead of the wake up call I received from RA, I might have just been stopped DEAD in my tracks!
Thanks for the insight.
Be well,
Donna
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by wm [1194.275] on April 02, 2004 at 08:15:19:
William thank you, I am very interested in what you write about this.
It's probably hard to believe, but I really have been through literally years of therapy, even the more "out there" types like the eye movement training.
While I have on an intellectual level learned quite a bit about addiction (my family of origin was riddled with alcoholism) and abuse and the side effects of such abuse and how to lead a sane life (Emotional-Rational stuff) I was never able to touch the emotions surrounding the abuse. I can clearly remember details, and I agree intellectually that it must have been very traumatic for me, both physically and psychologically, but I can not feel anything when I "see" the memories again in the brain or describe them, no matter how I tried. I am blocked and have never been able to break through. Same with a block I have during relations - I am not able to orgasm with another person with me, because as soon as I feel pleasure that would lead to orgasm, I shut the feelings off out of shame and I can not make myself stop doing that, it's involuntary.
It's not that I wasn't willing to do the work - I spent two years with a social worker counselor with a background in abuse and addiction, paying out of pocket because I didn't have insurance at the time, for an hour a week, and doing the reading and homework between each session. I was desperate to learn how to have a healthy relationship, how to be fully present during romantic sessions, how not to sabotage my health or life in general. I did learn a great deal about relationships, and thanks to therapy am in a great marriage (12 years and going strong) and don't do drugs, or drink to excess, or other things that blatantly would be harmful to me. I don't cut myself anymore. So the therapy worked on a number of areas.
But here I am, still with IC and fibromyalgia and other nagging health problems, none of which will kill me but some of which bring some misery. I figure these diseases are linked in some way to what went before, maybe to emotions buried too deep inside of me. I keep thinking, if only I could get to them and let them out, maybe I wouldn't be sick. But I try and I haven't been able to. Or I think, maybe it's the change in levels of stress that made me sick, maybe if I'd stayed in a stressful environment my body would have held up better?
P.S. I did read that about Freud - very very sad - and an example of how society fights tooth and claw against ending child abuse.
They give lip service to it - I couldn't count how many moms take off work to go to the bus stop to make sure no molester gets their kids - but those same moms are just as likely to see daddy taking little suzy into the bathroom and hearing little suzy scream, without doing anything about it...pretending it's not happening.
I would say that the majority of the people (at least in the U.S.) support childhood sexual abuse. They just pretend not to, or you get a few who are more honest about it and say "oh think of the poor abuser" or "you shouldn't dwell on memories like that." When I hear those phrases, I think...yeah...you got much kiddie porn on your computer buddy?
Whatever. And people wonder why I'm so negative about life, about people. I pray every night to God to be allowed to die in my sleep. Have every night since I learned how to pray as a child.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by DonnaW [302.931] on April 02, 2004 at 09:45:43:
Hi, Donna, that's what I meant to say, is that all of a sudden when my life became sane and safe, that's when I got sick! It's almost like - have you ever been in a really scary situation, like being robbed by gunpoint or anything? And you are okay during it but then afterwards you collapse on the ground and cry? That's how I react.
It's almost like when I got to a safe place, my body "collapsed." And I'm sort of bummed out that my body collapsed, because it hurts, and it's not fun, and I worry that I won't be able to get it to stop hurting no matter what I do.
But your story encourages me.
A really great therapist I had once say that no matter the circumstances, the feelings are all the same. It doesn't matter that I had sexual abuse, and you didn't, or that you had stressors that I didn't, because the feelings are all the same - you and I both know what it is like to be scared, in pain, humiliated, afraid. And those feelings are so universal - we all have them.
It would probably be longer, but more accurate, for me to not talk about the rapes per se but just to write, "I was scared a lot as a child, I felt unloved, I hurt, I wanted to run away and hide so that I'd never be hurt again." Those are feelings that each person here could say, "Yes, I've felt that way before in my life too..."
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
I am at a loss for words at the pain you have had to endure in your life, Isis.
I am so sorry for your horrible suffering.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 08:08:15:
Thanks, Miss Bliss, this looks very promising! I like that they have a lot of free instruction, too, because I'd never convince my hubby to pay for me going to a massage therapist or anything like that, he thinks anything but a traditional doctor is all hogwash. (Not me. I think sometimes the traditional docs are hogwash.)
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Miss Bliss to Isis [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 10:19:06:
Thank you, Miss Bliss - but I don't feel it. I think that it must have been very painful, I remember the blood, I remember not being able to sleep at night because of pain, but I don't really care about it anymore or feel it. It's just...it's like watching a movie about someone else.
Now I have a wonderful life! I have a husband who is good to me, two kitties who love me, watercolor supplies so I can paint which I love to do, a gym where I can work out each day...very good things! The only bad part is my body is kind of interfering in things is all.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 10:21:14:
I am subscribed to EFT. You can subscribe to them, and it's also no charge.
R. is very respected around these parts, and he also has a lot of faith in the system.
Its an energy healing that works with the meridian points of the body, it's very similar to TFT - thought field therapy. No, I dont think that's the name. Sheesh! I can't remember. I will remember. It will probably come to me in the middle of the night. ;-) It's right on the tip of my tongue(mind)
It's a pity you are not in my neck of the woods. I know a wonderful healer who does very powerful healing work out here. She is a gem~!
You don't happen to live in Australia, do you???? ;-)
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 10:33:27:
Nope...although with every election, my husband says "if so-and-so wins, we are moving to Australia" but hasn't happened yet.
I've met some Australians - all of them have been very nice people.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 10:14:01:
Hi Isis,
Your words have really touched me. . . thank you so much.
Yes, that's exactly how I react -- performing like a champ DURING the situation and then falling apart afterward. You CAN heal your body and be pain-free -- you're obviously a very strong person, and I know you can do anything you put your mind to.
You said on another thread that you didn't know if you'd be willing to give up sugar, do SR, etc. PLEASE give it a try. You'll be amazed at the progress you'll make. You're a very disciplined person (or at least my take on you), and you WILL be successful.
All my best. . .
Donna
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 10:23:30:
I guess there is always something in one's life that has to challenge us one way or the other.
Health is a biggie.
For some people it's unable to find or be with their soulmate, for others, it's career, for others unable to have children, whatever it is, we all have our crosses to bear in life, I guess.
We just got to make the best of what we have been given.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 10:34:55:
WE are very nice, outspoken, tell-you-like-it-is people, with a very zany sense of humour. Not like those brits sense of humour. ;-)
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by DonnaW [302.931] on April 02, 2004 at 10:36:30:
It's really hard giving up sugar, isn't it? The only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning is the thought of a full-sugar Coca Cola. I can't think of anything else that is a treat, that's not bad for me. Is there any way I could get the health benefits just from cutting back instead of cutting out entirely?
Thank you for saying I'm disciplined....but not when it comes to this, for this I am a wimp, I love my sugar so much...
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 10:38:22:
In the beginning , it s a bit difficult giving up sugar, but after the first week or so, it gets MUCH EASIER. Promise! ;-)
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 10:38:22:
Hi Isis,
No joke, giving up sugar is pure hell. The last time I did it (yes, I've gone through this several times -- so easy to fall back into old habits), I had a pounding headache and felt like I had a terrible flu for almost a week. I do think you have to cut out ALL *refined* sugar -- a little won't make a difference, and will only make it harder (and take much longer) to get well.
I'd be glad to help you in any way I can. . .
Donna
p.s. - Soda is horrible for you -- I was addicted to Dr. Pepper, and couldn't believe how much better I felt (after the initial withdrawal) after giving it up.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:54:50:
Hi you two,
I know this is a private two -way. Hope you don't mind. I
find this thread very interesting. I too had a very difficult
time in childhood, for many reasons. No need to list
them. Let's just say, I know you would understand.
I think this is a perfect place to write what I am thinking
as I read this post and the responses.
Isis, in regards to feeling numb while talking about your
past, I would send you down to a post I posted a few
days ago about stored trauma in the body (emotional,
physical, spiritual), and how that manifests in physical
ailments, eventually. The protective mechanism of "not
feeling,", or which ever mechanism is chosen by the
abused individual, only serves to protect you for awhile.
The mind is amazing. Yet, as stated in the article I
posted, eventually, if the abused can not release the
trauma, eventually the body will be worn down and
become sick. Funny how we are created. Brilliant
design, but without a manual (lol), we have to go
through so many trials to figure out what is actually
happening.
As far as abusers go, and them thinking about the
children they are harming before they act out...I tell you, I
waffle on that one. I have experienced serious anger
and sadness about all of this. To this day, because of
my past, I have a horrid reaction when I even hear a
child being yelled at, let alone hit or abandoned
emotionally. That reaction seems to never go away, no
matter how many years I put into working through my
"stuff." But, I have learned that some people aren't
capable of being able to "think" about the children, as
you put it. That was hard for me to accept. I want
everyone to take responsibility for what they create....yet,
I have learned that there are those so sick, for whatever
reasons, that they have no capacity to think rationally, or
to overcome the chemical processes going on inside
their brains. This is a hard pill to swallow. There is a
part of me that wants them to step up to the plate....I
have done a lot of research on this. After hearing about
their own stories when they were children, I would end
up sobbing for them, even though some of them were
horrible murdering creatures. They were once a
child....just like the child that you (that we all) were, that
was abused. We are still that child. It is our essense.
Having this compassion inside of me, mixed with the
anger about their abuse, creates a very confused
environment inside of me. The best I can come up
with, after many years, is that I don't have many
answers except that somehow, relinquishment is key.
And, that to feel peace is of the utmost necessity if I am
going to enjoy my life. If I am to be well physically, I
have to deal with my past issues of abuse. So, I have
to surrender to the fact that I don't know WHY I have to
go through this, but I do, well....that was the first step in
moving forward. I can only trust the instinct inside of
me that is telling me that there is a purpose to all of
this...I am not priviledged to know what that purpose is.
Letting go of beliefs is very freeing. Hanging onto them
has made me miserable and judgemental, and my
body suffers.
It is heartbreaking to hear about repeated cycles of
abuse....and just as heartbreaking on another level to
find out that genetically some have no capability
(chemically), to stop themselves. DNA studies are
interesting in this realm. The master plan of our bodies
is all wrapped up in strands. It would be wonderful to
be able to box this subject in a nice and neat little
package. It has been going on since the beginning of
mankind, and is a major pain in the arse. Still, we have
not stopped the cycle, and children suffer, and they
grow up and still suffer in some way, and then
sometimes they become offenders themselves. Or,
there is starvation, or there is no health care for millions
of kids, or they are abducted and killed, or there are
homeless on the streets....human beings are bizarre.
Hard to see....hard to forgive...hard to not judge,
especially when "you" are part of the abused. Anger,
fear, lost years, lost hopes and dreams...how do we put
all of this together so that we can not allow judgement
to kill our spirits? Because, if you will notice, when you
have a judgemental thought, your body tightens, and
unrest and bad chemicals are released into your own
system. Yet, just another kooky side effect of this
brilliant plan of creation. It would seem that we should
have the right to judge after being abused, without
suffering any ill effects...but judgement actually kills us
on a chemical level. What in the world could be less
appropriate? At least, this is what my mind thinks, as I
have judgemental thoughts about my abusers and how
we are created. In the end, I realize I know nothing
about why, how, and if the healing will ever be
complete. As one poster said, (terrie-lynn??), being in
the moment...to me this means not being in the past,
not being in the future....and not being in judgement.
After being abused, this is difficult.
This post is an amazing subject, and one I would like to
see more of this on the board. I think it is vital to our
healing, and most people suffer and need to
understand that this needs to be discussed if we are to
heal ourselves and this world, even if someone hasn't
had to face "in your face" abuse. Diet, SR,
excercise....all needed......but this is necessary. To talk
about this stuff. And EVERYONE needs to be in on it.
Understanding is created this way. I think we all suffer
from it in our own ways. We always have, and we
continue to try to make sense of this and try to find ways
to define what is happening with humanity, but we can't.
We get closer, but it starts inside each individual. We
have a guide inside of us, if we will just listen and feel
what it says, we would drop all that is in the mind, and
just move out of "belief" and into freedom. It takes so
much digging inside of ourselves to find that
guidance....the truth of our existance. It is a life long
journey. I haven't found "the" answers. Only pieces of
the puzzle.
I do know that somehow, forgiveness is key. Surrender
is key. Peace, healthy bodies and minds...not being
numb to being abused, nor allowing ourselves to be an
abuser.....and somehow, someday, not judging the
abuser. (believe me....I haven't gotten there...I just know
it is key). Forgiveness and love is key. It is so hard to
do all of this when our bodies retain trauma.
I think this board is the first step for many people. It
attempts to teach us how to love ourselves enough to
mend our own selves first. This post is about a huge
part of that mending. Thanks Isis, for posting and
sharing such intimate details. I do wish we didn't have
to go through all of this, but we apparantly, we have no
choice in the matter. We are here, the sh_ _
happened, and we have these experiences to deal with.
Damn!! :-)
xo
dd
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 10:46:08:
Hi Isis, I just went through that a couple of weeks ago. I had some withdrawls I wasn't expecting. Depression, moodiness, etc. Initially it was difficult. But, some of the gals on the board gave me their support and I made it through it. The binging and desire for sugar is gone now.
I encourage you, you will feel better once through the initial withdrawls.
:o) Barb
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 01, 2004 at 15:48:18:
Thanks, Isis.
Acute (short term stress) IS good for you. It is the long term (chronic) stress-effect that stores up in the hypothalamus that is the problem.
I am sure that this is explained many places on the website and in my book as well.
Walt.)
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by dd [1706.26] on April 02, 2004 at 13:17:10:
Wow, dd, thanks, this is a really thought-provoking and wise post!
I actually have forgiven the abusers, because I know that they were not in control - because of their own abused backgrounds, because of chemicals gone awry, etc.
In fact I have come to the very unpopular conclusion that hardly any of us have any control over our lives or even what we do at all.
Something a counselor said once really stuck with me. He said that people are what they are because that's what they have to be and they do what they do because that's what they have to do.
So I am very fortunate in having forgiveness and lack of anger towards my abusers, because of my belief that none of us are responsible for anything.
On the other hand, it makes me hate life all the more because I feel as if we are all on this horrible roller coaster ride that is mostly about suffering and I don't like the ride very much. I don't understand what the point of it all is, and I have little hope for the future.
In Reply to: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS (ARCHIVE posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on April 02, 2004 at 13:46:03:
That most of us fall apart after the big stressors and not during? Or is that not really the case, that what I've seen is just kind of a minority? Or is it that chronic stress takes a long time to take its toll on the body and that's why it seems we fall apart after the stress instead of during? I'm just very curious about the timing of stress and chronic illness.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 09:58:20:
my background is that of the psychological model and healing. and i ascribe to that. of course the model and philosophy of wellness/3 legged stool (whatever else you want to call it) is of GREAT IMPORT. diet, excercise and destressing are the most important. (ok i was redundant) i believe that you therapy was not invalid, but ineffectual. have you been in a group therapy setting with other survivors? or others with severe ptsd? also, most therapists dont really know how to deal with ptsd effectively. unfortunately, most therapists are well intentioned but have both inadequate training/knowledge and have not dealt with their own issues (which is what lead them to the clinical therapy in the first place) i was in a group setting as well as individual for over 10 years with one specific dr of psychology who herself was a survivor. she was an extremely talent clinician with whom i worked well.
if you have never felt the feelings behind/underneath from your past, my philosophy is that one can not move on until they do. that is why most of the world is so screwed up. most of the world is trauma victims who have never taken a moment to FEEL what actually happened to them... the old addage (quite untrue) forgive and forget... is bull sh... UNLESS we first work through the traumatic incidents. the allopaths will just put folks on meds and thats that... BULL. meds are, for most, a temporary band aid to apply talk therapy to and work through the crap. the meds bring the bottom of the difficulty (like depressive disorders up) and allow the person to feel sufficiently normal, then they deal with the crap, then they go off the meds and have a decent life. at least i have seen a few examples of this and believe in it. this is not to say that you need meds by any stretch. the best in my opinion is a naturalistic approach. however, some are so dibilitated meds do serve a purpose for a LITTLE while.
i suggest to you to start a significant regimen of SR. one of the simplist is to listen to tapes/cd's by bainsync and the like but i think you want to start with alpha wave modalities for a while. walt recommends 2xs daily for 20 minutes. i ask you (rhetorically unless you really want to answer) how bad do you feel? to what length are you willing to go to move toward wellness and the potential of feeling better... if you are willing to go to any length to which you can recommit DAILY... then do more than 2 sessions of sr... try 3 or 4. at least 20 min. make sure to NOT sleep with in 2 hours of a session, although you may feel tired.
wm
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by wm [1194.275] on April 02, 2004 at 14:16:39:
Yes, I've been in group therapy for a few years too....stopped that because honestly I didn't feel it was helping me much after a certain point...
Now relaxing without falling asleep afterwards or during is going to be a HUGE stretch for me...
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by dd [1706.26] on April 02, 2004 at 13:17:10:
Beautiful!
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 13:49:55:
Isis,
I think that what that counselor said to you is right on. It
seems that it 'just is." That is a difficult one to
surrender to because we would like to see things
played out differently.. People do have choice, but
being able to recognize that simple concept, and then
learn how to change chemical responses, and
neurological pathways to make choices stick...well, it's
hard enough to accomplish dedication on an excercise,
diet and SR level, let alone to change chemical
imblances in the brain from abuse. The diet, SR, and
excercise certainly help, but it isn't the end of it....at least
not in my case.
I think it is completely possible to change the brain
chem and pathways, but turning it around causes
termporary warfare in the brain, and is a terribly difficult
challenge. It creates a lot of craziness in the mind as
the ego and true self battle it out for space. It could be
a career choice with how much time and effort it utilizes.
Hating life...I am unfortuantely priviledged to know that
feeling, and the frustrations of not being able to control
how others perceive. But I don't hate life actually. Not
the life where I get to work in my garden, and see the
squirrels in my yard that are the same ones I have
known for almost 5 years, and I can smell the ocean as
I drive to work, and the birds, and the children laughing
in the streets in front of my house, or the beautiful
music I get to play, or listen to as I do my yard work. Or
holding my nieces and nephews, or loving my animals.
I only hate the part of life that I can't control. The harmful
acts and decisions of others and the direction of the
health of the actual planet. But, truthfully, I have harmed
this world too. It isn't all "out there." Some of it is right
here with me. I wasn't immuned from being an ass at
times. Tough to come to terms with. I don't know
anyone that hasn't harmed someone, even if on a small
level. We all play a part in the good, and even in the
bad, if you want to put it into those terms. For me, my
goal at this point is to add more good energy into the
mix, and to let go of my desire to change the world. I
can't do it. Little things for me. I am looking into
starting a training program at the Humane Society
where you learn to work with animals and autistic and
retarded kids, the sick, the elderly, etc....I am drawn
heavily.....I need to do it. So, no major hurrays after 22
years of working through this stuff. Just a willingness
to listen to the voice in my spirit telling me what
direction to take. From that, i am learning to love life
more and more. As I do this, I spend less time being
involved in the "fight." I think looking at it as "out there"
instead of as "in here" is what creates wars, greed,
hunger, pain, suffering. I don't think anything will
change until we change inside.
Thanks again Isis, for your vulnerable post. I have a lot
of respect for people that can devulge such difficulties.
Have a wonderful day!!
dd
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by dd [1706.26] on April 02, 2004 at 15:30:07:
Thank you...that's true..I have alot I need to change inside really...
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, - to dd posted by DonnaW [302.931] on April 02, 2004 at 15:13:18:
nmi
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:09:52:
Isis,
This is so sad. You did not mention this in your initial post. From what I've read in these posts, it does sound like you have taken many measures to help heal yourself including forgiveness. And you are continuing to seek healing. This is good.
I forgave my father, too. He didn't sexually abuse me as a child, but he did beat the crap out of me, and he verbally abused me. You are correct in saying that it is nothing one can simply "forget" and pretend it didn't happen. The awesome thing is that not long after I decided to forgive my dad (after seeking professional counseling), he asked me for forgiveness for what he did. It was a special moment.
Though we may understand which circumstances molded our parents into the people we knew, Isis, they were still responsible for their actions. They made choices. We couldn't choose for them, but we can choose for ourselves. My dad and I are not by any means close, but we do have what I call a working relationship. I respect him for asking my forgiveness. On the flip side, I have a friend who has completely separated herself from her family because of the incest that occurred when she was a child and because of the perpetual "family secrets" and denial. I agree that in her case, what she chose to do was best for her and her child.
Thank you for sharing this. It has helped me immensely because my husband and I received a call last night from an acquaintance/friend who was committed to a mental hospital earlier this week. She was sexually abused by her father when she was a child while her mother "looked the other way." It's a long story, but suffice it to say that your posts have helped me to understand more. We'll be seeing her this weekend, possibly tonight.
There is something else I want to share with you regarding illness. A few years ago, I returned to school to complete my undergrad work. I worked fulltime and went to school fulltime for two solid years. I was in overall great health during this time even though I was running like a mad woman. When I finished and sat down to smell the roses, I got sick within a few weeks and remained sick for what seemed months and months. It was unbelievable.
During this time, I asked a friend, an LVN, what was going on with me. Her explanation was that my mind did not allow me to get sick during the two years I was going to school and working fulltime. I simply HAD to keep going. When the stress (positive stress, but still stress) was over, my mind then allowed me to let loose. I had colds, sinus infections, and a chronic-type of fatigue for months. My friend's explanation made sense to me.
Like I said above, it really sounds throughout your posts that you have taken good measures to heal yourself. May I make a suggestion, Isis? You mentioned in one post that you have prayed every night since you learned to pray as a child, for God to take your life. Perhaps you can replace that prayer for a prayer for healing.
Take care, Isis, and thank you.
Sylvia
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by dd [1706.26] on April 02, 2004 at 15:30:07:
Hi dd and Isis
I know you both have spoken about counselling and healing for such trauma that Isis has gone through.
I wanted to run something by you.
I went to a counsellor a few years ago. He was recommended, AND was a christian counsellor, not a priest, but affiliated with the church in some way.
He seemed fine when we started the session, but he started to act inappropriately towards me.
He rubbed my leg during the session, when I was telling him what had happened to me, and then hugged and kissed me at the end. I found that totally inappropriate (my first time ever meeting this man), and I do have to say I am put off going to see ANY male counsellors now.
I now feel much more comfortable seeing a female counsellor, if I needed to see one.
It's enough to go through the trauma of being sexually abused, but to put trust into a male counsellor, and then for him to act inappropriately, kind of reinforced my distrust. i found the whole experience totally disheartening, especially as he was recommended .
Be very discerning who you trust to be your counsellor, Isis. There are good and bad counsellors out there.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 20:12:59:
Hi Maria,
I hope you reported him.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 07:00:59:
That is Sad..
Don't you want to have children ? If not it's maybe because of what you went through. Have you ever been mad at the people/situation ? Seems like you should have been but then maybe you could see that THEY had the problem and Not You. That's what I realized but I think that the good times made me see the problems they had. I think my life has been one of extreme contrasts wether it be health, going from extremely helthy and capable to Very damaged and struggling to do things and to religion where I experienced and very rich and very poor parish that made me question if it was ALL about money or control.
I am rough with my hounds when they make life too difficult for me and they would make a creator question creating them but I Can't stay mad at them for long and let them feel the stress I gave them and as soon as I calm down from being upset, I Have to make up with them so we both feel good again. The one I have now was abused so is wary but my last one was SO eager to make up and be close that he choped at the bit, wanting to be close and couldn't wait.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 20:12:59:
Hi Blissy,
I agree with Sounder. You should report him. He
sounds like a perp. I hope you heal from that. Most
woman I know have had experiences like that in some
form. Creepy stuff. The very first counselor I ever went
to was a male. He was the best counselor I ever had.
Very loving and gentle man. Very insightful and calm.
Also, very respectful, even though I was going through
such a down period.
I am sorry you went through that. But, there are lousy
female counselors too. I had one that was down right
abusive, in a very round about way. Passive aggresive.
Generally, they are just people. Some good, some bad.
dd
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by dd [1706.26] on April 03, 2004 at 02:19:28:
Hi dd
No, I never did report the jerk.
I told the person who recommended him to me, but I never went as far as reporting him. I can't even remember his name, but I am sure I could still find out from that person.
The thing was dd, that he was SO nice and caring, and seemed to take a genuine interest and concern. And me, I fell for it, thinking he was genuinely wanting to help me, and what a kind, caring man he was.
When he touched me in that way,I recoiled. It felt so inappropriate,and so awkward too! Made me feel very uncomfortable.
He went as far as booking me infor the next week, but I cancelled it. I never went back to see him again.
Now, if the need should ever arise for counselling, I will insist on seeing a female counsellor, sad it has to be that way, but I don't want to ever feel that uncomfortable and that insecure around a counsellor again.
its the ultimate in betrayal really, isnt it.
You put your faith and trust in a counsellor, not so they can abuse that. And he was a christian. I guess that surprised me most of all.
In Reply to: Thank you, Dr. Stoll, but, please, why is it.... posted by Isis [664.4] on April 02, 2004 at 13:56:52:
Thanks, Isis.
You need a much more inclusive understanding of the process:
Start by digesting the sress article on the home page and then go from there.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Dr. Stoll, but, please, why is it.... posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on April 03, 2004 at 08:22:26:
Thanks, Dr. Stoll. I read that the immune system becomes severely depressed when chronic stress takes its toll. That it's not something that happens overnight, really, it's a longer process, more like years of signficant stressors. And I learned that it's not just bad things that happen to us that cause stress, it can be chemicals in the environment, etc. that all adds up and keeps building up unless we get rid of it daily with SR and exercise and whole foods diet. And that sugar really knocks out the immune system too.
They are finding more and more illnesses (even cancer) are caused by viruses, am I right? So if we have depressed immune systems, not only are we going to get more colds, etc. but we will get h. pylori in our stomachs (ulcers), maybe cancer, heart disease, etc.
I wonder if just about all illnesses will be found to be caused by viruses or bacteria someday? Maybe our cartilage starts dying at middle age because we are no longer able to resist viruses that might cause that to happen.
I guess it's like, our immune system generally starts out pretty strong in childhood, and then it gets beaten down each day by stress unless we find a way to get rid of stress. Then when it gets beaten down far enough, we get more and more illnesses and finally die.
In Reply to: Re: Dr. Stoll and others, maybe we need MORE stress not LESS to be well? posted by Vince F [1912.9] on April 02, 2004 at 22:37:18:
It doesn't matter if I want children or not, I am not capable of bearing a child, physically.
I guess I could adopt, but...with my health the way it's been, I didn't feel up to it...
Abuse is a huge problem in our world...I wish there were a solution...
You are right..most everything is about money and control...everything.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Miss Bliss [4.275] on April 02, 2004 at 20:12:59:
Oh, that's awful. I don't think I would ever go to a male counselor for just that reason. I think that most men are excited by stories about sexual abuse, because they have no way to understand sex that is painful, to them it's all about pleasure.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Miss Bliss :) posted by Isis [664.4] on April 03, 2004 at 10:41:33:
the worst part for me with any kind of abuse that i have suffered is the unpredictability of the abuser. that always would scare, and i remember my body would be so tense, until the situation was over. talk about FOF! It was soooo awful to have such tension all over one's body, that i would break out in a sweat from the panic as my mind held onto the thought that it will be over soon, but not knowing what the abuser was going to do next, was the most torturous.
In Reply to: Re: Thank you, Dr. Stoll, but, please, why is it.... posted by Isis [664.4] on April 03, 2004 at 10:37:38:
Thanks, Iris.
You are beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Look up what Pasteur said on his death bed about this. He, after a lifetime of trying to teach us that all illness was caused by bacteria, said that the immune system of the individual was, after all, the most important thing.
It has taken us 100 years to understand what he was saying.
After all, when it comes right down to it, that is still the one thing that each of us can do something about.
As your understanding continues to mature, please share with us your process. That is one of the ways the rest of us learn.
Walt
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