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Hi Walt,
Does the appearance of the mystical pearl correspond to a particular brainwave? Do you know what it is and how it happens?
Thanks,
Jan
In Reply to: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 12, 2007 at 07:19:37:
The round white light, that you see sometimes while doing SR?
Silver Fox!
In Reply to: Re: Jan are you talking about.. posted by Steve [3019.3308] on April 12, 2007 at 09:12:44:
Hi Steve,
Purple, soft, flowing.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: Jan are you talking about.. posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 12, 2007 at 10:54:46:
Haven't see that. Mine's more round white glowing light. I don't see it all the time. Strange how our brain works isn't it?
Silver Fox!
In Reply to: Re: Jan are you talking about.. posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 12, 2007 at 10:54:46:
Hi Jan,
I have talked to a lot of people in the past few years who see moving colors during meditation and relaxation. I saw them myself for the first time years ago when I had my first cranial-sacral treatment. I was so relaxed and comfy/cozy that I felt as if I couldn't move and was sinking into the massage table, and I began to see colors swirling past my closed eyes. A friend had her first C-S treatment just before I did at the same place and it began a similar effect for her.
I now know that these swirling colors relate to the chakras and now that I am more aware of balancing and tuning into my chakras, the colors form more regular patterns and I can see the spinning vortex movement more often. Sometimes I see shapes and patterns, in various colors, too. Most of the time I just lay there and enjoy the show because it is so relaxing! I've heard of the blue pearl that Walt talks about, but what I experience doesn't feel like that to me.
Purple is the color of divine connection, relating to the crown chakra, so perhaps what you are experiencing is a sign of a deeper connection with the divine source for you.
Whatever it is, enjoy!
Nutmeg
In Reply to: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 12, 2007 at 07:19:37:
Hi Jan. My experiences are similar to Nutmeg's. It usually starts with a tiny violet starburst which spreads and swirls around. The starburst can come several times during a session. I also see a lot of lime green and sometimes, if I'm lucky, I see reds and oranges.
I've seen these patterns during massage, Feldenkrais body work and while listening to classical music. I just love it when it happens. It doesn't happen every time, though. I think it depends on how deep I am into it and how relaxed I am.
Naya
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Naya [120.14] on April 12, 2007 at 18:10:51:
Hey Naya (and Nutmeg and Walt):
I remember I once asked about this--the purple ball, so I did a search, and found it. Looks like we had this same conversation a long time ago...isn't it interesting to read it again.
P.S. I can't help wondering how Gregory (aka PITA--Pain In The Ass) is doing nowadays :)
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by holist [5329.1399] on April 12, 2007 at 18:30:45:
here is the link:
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by holist [5329.1399] on April 12, 2007 at 18:30:45:
Hi Holist,
Thanks for that trip down memory lane. I recall several conversations about seeing colors during SR on this board and I think several threads were archived.
I also found this link while googling "blue pearl".
http://www.souledout.org/healing/bluedot/bluedot.html
As for the subject of your PS, I suspect he's found another board or two to troll :o) He did find some interesting links for people when he was in the mood for that.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by holist [5329.1399] on April 12, 2007 at 18:30:45:
Wow! I had forgotten about that thread. 2002! G. was always such a pleasure to have an exchange with, ugh! Especially loved the comments about HRT and lubrication, as if they even pertained to the conversation. Boy, glad he's not around any more.
Nice to have you back, though, btw!
Naya
In Reply to: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 12, 2007 at 07:19:37:
Hi, Jan.
To me it only meant that I was in a good meditative spot. Perhaps a Buddhist Monk could tell you more?
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 13, 2007 at 07:37:06:
Thanks, Walt. (and others, I appreciated reading all your comments.)
That's a good idea, talking to my Buddhist friends, but I don't think they would know much about the physiology of it. One thing that is so frustrating about many spiritual teachings is the language is so often metaphoric and doesn't give a grounded or practical understanding of the experience for the modern person. For example, I found your explanation of the brainwaves in SR to be really practical and clear.
I read the article that someone linked and that info (sensory deprivation, etc) is not my sense of what I'm experiencing. It seems to me like it's a flow of energy from somewhere in the body into the head. I'm not sure where or how this movement of energy fits into the whole realm of spiritual "achievement" and the path "back home."
Would you be willing to share some information about your experience reaching the source? How it happened, etc. for those of us who aspire to the same?
Namaste`
Jan
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on April 12, 2007 at 22:28:37:
Interesting info about the blue pearl. I've always wondered if what I (and you guys) see really IS the blue pearl. Here is my doubt: all the sources I've checked claim the "blue pearl" as some ultimate goal of meditation after many years of practice; yet, I've never tried SR/meditation. Whenever I close my eyes and calm down a bit, I see the purple ball (or blue pearl) consistently, almost at will.
So I wonder if you guys saw the blue pearl as a result of many years of meditation, or you feel you have this innate ability in the bodymind already, regardless of SR/meditation. Comments?
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 14, 2007 at 07:16:00:
Jan,
I just gradually started noticing the bluish-purplish color in my mind's eye during deep SR. Having taken TM and other forms of training without seeing it I had no idea what I was seeing. When I started using my flotation tank I occasionally saw it and assumed that it was something to do with sensory deprivation. Come to think of it; my first experience of it was with Silva.
However, when I sold my tank to a research project (police department for stress management) I continued to, still occasionally, see the color. It would start as a far away pinpoint of shading and gradually grow to fill the visual field of my mind's eye. If I tried to hold it it usually faded. If I was true to my SR it usually stayed but did not always happen.
Then I did training with Swami Muktenanda at his FL center in about 1975. That is where I learned about the Blue Pearl.
I have no idea about the physiology of it. I did learn, however that Kundalini Yoga ties it into their system and that Buddhist experience sees it commonly.
I never saw it as anything mystical; just a practical indication of my SR success.
It did get, however, so I could mostly bring it on but not always.
Hope this helps. Sorry to be so mysterious but these kinds of experiences have been kind of mysterious for thousands of years. So far, I have not been interested in solving it physiologically. Better people than I have done so without notable success.
I guess it is still OK let some things be mysterious; isn't that where the word "mystical" has it's roots?
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Naya and Nutmeg [5329.1399] on April 14, 2007 at 21:35:59:
Just like there is a vast continuum of talents in baseball, tennis, basketball, etc. there is a talent in visualization as well. You are talented.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 15, 2007 at 07:39:42:
Thanks Walt, I'm glad to hear that.
Now, how to make the best use of that (and other) talent...that's the hard part.
How would YOU use such a talent, if you were 30 years younger?
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Naya and Nutmeg [5329.1399] on April 14, 2007 at 21:35:59:
Hi Holist. Seeing the blue or purple pearl came to me very early on. It started when I was doing body work and then appeared quite soon after I started doing SR. I also saw it and lots of other colors before doing SR when listening to certain pieces of classical music. I also have very intense visualizations sometimes.
Naya
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Naya [120.14] on April 15, 2007 at 17:09:45:
Yes, I remember you mentioned Brahms. You must be one who has "talent" in this area, as Walt put it. It's certainly a priceless gift :)
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Naya and Nutmeg [5329.1399] on April 14, 2007 at 21:35:59:
Hi To,
I'd never heard of the blue pearl until Walt mentioned it in response to my question about seeing colors one time. I have my doubts that what I'm seeing is the blue pearl (I truly think the colors and patterns I see are related to my chakras) but what it is is not really important to me.
I don't follow any particular program or rigorous method of meditation and don't really care to. I do whatever feels right that day. When I'm in a guided meditation with a group, I often go off on my own journey or go absolutely nowhere that I can recall, because I believe my bodymind knows where I need to go for my highest and best good that day.
With my meditation and SR practice, I don't have a goal of being a perfect meditator, or reaching some kind of standard achievement that someone else has set, or having some kind of predetermined experience. I'm just thrilled that I get to have the experiences I'm having and enjoying every minute of the process and everything I have learned and gained from having them. I've been doing meditation & SR about 7 years, or so, I think and every time has been different and valuable.
I do these practices in the way that's right for me, but I also don't try to tell others how to do it, because they have to figure out for themselves what works.
Hope that helps,
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Walt [5329.1399] on April 15, 2007 at 09:00:20:
To?
I cannot think of anything I would do different than what I did, 30 years ago.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 14, 2007 at 07:16:00:
There is a lot on this if you look into MRI and scientific studies that
were performed ON buddhist monks who are masters at meditating.
I wish I could remember the one book; I will try to think of it. It had a
lot in there but I bet a google search would also do it...
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on April 16, 2007 at 01:00:52:
Whoa, you have practiced SR/meditation for 7 years! Then you must have had some amazing experiences. I have to admit I have never tried meditation/SR--not in the standard way anyway. The idea of sitting there still somehow doesn't appeal to me. What I enjoy is moving in nature--running, hiking, swimming, walking, etc. But probably no one would call those activities "meditation" :)
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 16, 2007 at 07:17:45:
Hi Walt,
I wasn't sure what you were doing 30 years ago, so I checked your CV, and saw that you were in transition in 1976, moving from teaching at U of K to practising in HMC. Did you think teaching in the academia not as influencial (i.e. reaching more people) as practising in a clinic? Which would suggest that curing the sick is more important than to enlighten and impart knowledge? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Nutmeg [5329.1399] on April 17, 2007 at 08:32:02:
Hi To,
Yes, I have had some incredible experiences on all body/mind/spirit levels doing SR/meditation. I started doing it a few months after I started coming to this board. It took many months for my monkey mind to calm down, but I eventually got it figured out and just allowed myself to relax. Even those early experiences were helpful.
I had taken two different classes for learning meditation and relaxation that each met for several weeks in the year or two before I joined the board and neither one helped me all that much. I guess the timing and situation was not quite right. Now I participate in guided meditations with a group all the time and also do a great deal on my own, with or without CDs.
I need to rest my body to allow my muscles to relax, so mostly I lie or sit still for my SR. It's definitely possible to combine meditation and walking or other physical movement, though. I do it while walking all the time for short intervals, since I have to stay somewhat alert outside. I often walk a labyrinth and get into the relaxed brainwaves while I do that.
Give it a try and see what kind of experiences you can have.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on April 17, 2007 at 10:31:52:
That's really interesting that it is actually Walt's board that got you on track of SR/meditation. Whoa.
What you suggested about I should give it a try sounds like a good idea. I will, now. I'm low-tech, so I wonder if it's possible to tell what brainwaves one has WITHOUT being hooked to some machine (which is the way I'd prefer)? Have you used any machines to certify yours? Are you able to tell which brainwave(s) you have just by experiencing?
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by holist [5329.1399] on April 17, 2007 at 22:50:54:
Hi Holist,
Beginning my practice of SR was the most significant thing I learned when joining this board. I was already exercising daily (walking) and eating primarily whole foods, so I didn't have to make major changes there. I would say that SR opened me up to more spiritual experiences than I expected, but it did have great physical and emotional benefits as well. I knew intuitively that SR/meditation was just what I needed, so that's why I persisted with it until everything about it fell into place.
I seem to have two states of awareness when I'm SR'ing, and I can definitely tell which of my two states I am in during/after each session. With the lighter state, I am relaxed and comfy, sinking into the bed, fairly conscious. I hear background noises and sense other events going on around me, but they don't bother or disturb me. I could move or speak if I wanted to, but I don't really want to. Occasionally I do drift into sleep, but most of the time I am not. I used to hold a small flashlight (like the big spoon trick) to be sure I was not sleeping, and I was able to train myself to stay just this side of sleep. Now when I catch myself beginning to snore softly, I am able to bring myself back. I assume this is somewhere close to alpha. I can also slip into this state briefly when I am doing other things.
The other state is deeper. I am zoned out--somewhere between asleep and awake. Most of the time I have no memory of where I was and I have a sense of missing time because I have no idea how long I've been gone. Sometimes I am conscious of visions or of things being revealed to me in a different way than in dreams when I am in this state. I am guessing this state is somewhere near theta. Occasionally I slip into delta/sleep here, too, but I always figure my body needs the rest and I will catch up next time. I don't stress about it.
I have not had my SR tested with biofeedback. Several reasons for this. I did investigate traditional biofeedback, but there are no practitioners listed for this area in the online directories, and no biofeedback classification in the local yellow pages. I scanned the therapist/counselor sections of the phone book a few times, and never saw that mentioned in any of the ads. I could probably find someone to help me using a computer biofeedback system, and may do that some day out of curiousity, but I don't feel a burning need to verify it. To me it's a spiritual and healing experience, and I am happy with my practice as it is. When I am ready to advance, the universe will bring me to the next level, along with more visions, more spiritual input, etc. I also don't imagine it would be possible to recreate what I do at home when I am in someone else's space, so the testing would not be very accurate anyway. I find the time I spend SR'ing to be very relaxing and healing. I can't think how I could improve on that, and I think it would be stressful to try to meet some standard and feel like I was wasting my time because I was doing it *wrong*. I borrowed a testing unit once (GSR thingy, I guess). It had a horrible shrill squeal that you were supposed to be able to quiet down by relaxing more. Yeah, right...LOL!
This is just my opinion and experience, and I know it differs from Dr. Stoll's advice, which is based on many years of experience, and what others on this board do. Not worse or better, just different. If others feel they need to be tested to be sure they are investing their time effectively, then I fully support that.
Well, that's probably more than you wanted to know! I hope you'll post about your experiences.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Walt [5329.1399] on April 17, 2007 at 08:55:11:
Hi, To.
The academic milieu cramped my style too much as I began to learn how stultifying it was to any advanced concepts of healing. To continue to expand my owh understanding, and freedom to share it with my patients, I had to be in private practice.
Just mentioning the word biofeedback or meditation would produce a violent reaction from the school. Of course, now they are teaching it but 30 years ago it was heresy.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Walt Stoll [1915.1889] on April 18, 2007 at 07:59:04:
I see.
Evolution of consciousness is sometimes sooooo slow that it makes one lose hope for humanity...but then there is always a small flicker of flame symbolizing hope that keeps one going :)
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on April 18, 2007 at 01:59:39:
These are very helpful info Nutmeg, thanks for sharing. Lots to ponder upon.
I've been reading up on SR, and saw that Walt catagorized 2 approaches--active (with help of CD or other high-tech stuff) and passive (with nothing). The latter type appeals to me a lot more. Do you go the passive or active?
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Walt [5329.1399] on April 18, 2007 at 22:19:27:
.
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Nutmeg [5329.1399] on April 18, 2007 at 22:29:20:
Hi To,
You're welcome.
I do both passive and active methods for SR. I really love one of the CDs I use. The music and sounds are beautiful and it just sets me adrift. It's called Soma by Tom Kenyon. My massage therapist played it last week during my session, and I was a goner for part of the hour.
I have a few other CDs that I use occasionally, including other music, several guided meditations (mostly made by people I know, rather than commercially available ones), hypnosis, and Holosync/Centerpoint, but mostly it's Soma. Probably 6-7 out of 10 times I use a CD because it works reliably, is easy and portable, and the music helps me focus and tune out other noise and distractions.
We do guided meditations in a group once or twice a week, so that counts for some of my SRs. If I have a hypnotherapy session, I count that too.
The rest of the time, I just do whatever feels right. Sometimes I just lie down and concentrate on my breathing or the quiet, or think about a spiritual question or a decision I need to make, or allow images and messages to come to me, watch the color patterns with my eyes closed, or hold one or more of my crystals and see where they take me or what information they bring.
I think there is another category of SR, which might be considered more physical. This would be for stuff like yoga, t'ai chi, walking meditation, chanting or vocal toning, etc. I find myself slipping into what I believe is alpha for a few seconds or maybe a minute while I walk sometimes, and I think I wrote in another post that I've had this experience while walking a labyrinth. Oh, I also have a wooden finger labyrinth that I can hold in my lap and trace with a finger. That works pretty well, too.
Many paths...
Hope this helps.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on April 19, 2007 at 01:13:05:
Yes, your input helps a lot.
I think we have all experienced the whole spectrum of brainwaves, from alpha to omega (LOL), but most of us don't know which is which. What I want to know is to be able to tell what brainwave I experience at any moment. I believe that is the KEY. Once we have this key, we can easily adjust our brainwaves at will (through practice, of course).
I already know beta--the waking, alert, aware, working mode. And the sleeping mode. But alpha seems an elusive, mystical one.
What are the sure and telling signs of alpha?
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by To Nutmeg [5329.1399] on April 19, 2007 at 19:43:30:
Hi To,
Can't answer that one for you. I think that's why Dr. Stoll always recommends getting biofeedback--so people can be sure they are really in alpha, or if not, find out where they actually are.
Maybe reading the description of the relaxation response in the glossary of this board will shed some light on the alpha feelings for you.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt posted by Nutmeg [4785.74] on April 19, 2007 at 22:55:11:
Yes, I have been reading on this topic. I really appreciate your input.
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt --- Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 15, 2007 at 07:11:32:
Thanks, Walt.
I've been thinking about your answer for a long time.
Last week I started re-reading the first spiritual book I ever read, a book by Ramana Maharshi. I have read hundreds of spiritual books, and learned about so many spiritual techniques, etc., most of which seemed vague or misleading when it comes to how does one actually find the way.
This week, though, when rereading his book, I think I found the right direction. Yes, it is mysterious but his words had finally become clear. Maybe each person has to find their own right way back to the Source.
:o)
Namaste`
Jan
In Reply to: Re: SR/Meditation question for Walt --- Archive. posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [2062.3360] on April 30, 2007 at 22:07:52:
Thanks, Jan.
Yeah, these books by many of the spiritual masters, need to be re-read several times. At different times along our own spiritual journey, one will get something different out of each reading.
Congratulations!
Walt
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