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My understanding is that cooked food can still be a whole food. If I make a cookie with whole food ingredients (whole grain flour, rapadura sugar, organic eggs, organic butter, etc), would this baked cookie be considered a whole food? Just wondering how far I can stretch the definition without breaking any "rules."
In Reply to: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4820.74] on April 22, 2006 at 22:51:17:
I can tell that
Grrrrracie Waaaant Coooookie!!
Let me be the "Count" and lead you through this...
1... great big whole food cooookie,
2... great big whole food cooookies,
3... great big whole food cooookies,
4... great big whole food cooookies,
5... great big whole food cooookies.
If that is your only transgression, I don't think anyone will challenge your creativity.
I hope you are going to leave some for the other coooookie monster. :)
Ron
you reminded me to go visit my coookie jar too
In Reply to: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4820.74] on April 22, 2006 at 22:51:17:
Certainly sounds right to me. Enjoy!
In Reply to: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4820.74] on April 22, 2006 at 22:51:17:
Hi Grace,
According to Beth's book, you can make a whole food cookie
(muffin, etc.) with this condition: although it would still be
considered "whole food" it would not be acceptable on the
"perfect whole food diet" because that does not permit sugar in
any form. I personally am still not clear on this distinction
because, as omnivores (expressing an OPINION here) fruit (and
even honey) has always been a part of our diet. Still, you can't
knock results, and going perfect seems to have healing
qualities. But, as Doctor Stoll has stated, perfect doesn't have
to be forever.
So bottom line, yes... can be whole food, but not permitted if
you are doing the perfect whole food diet.
In Reply to: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4820.74] on April 22, 2006 at 22:51:17:
Hi Grace,
For the perfect diet, sugar is not allowed. The other ingredients are whole.
If you can figure out a way to do it with stevia instead of sugar, that sounds good. Some people can eat fruit on the PWFD, also.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Happygal [2062.2032] on April 23, 2006 at 07:35:27:
Is stevia really truly natural? I ask b/c I've had people tell me that splenda is natural, but I don't think so!
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Happygal [2062.2032] on April 23, 2006 at 07:35:27:
So sugars that are natural in foods is okay on a pwfd? But the sugar from a sugar cane is not? Even if it is "processed" minimally (as in the rapadura that I have)? Why is honey (i have raw, unprocessed honey) not a whole food?
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4800.74] on April 23, 2006 at 08:38:43:
Yes, Stevia is natural - it comes from the leaves of a plant.
Splenda is man-made and does not occur in nature.
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4800.74] on April 23, 2006 at 08:38:43:
stevia is natural, but not a whole food-it's refined. Honey is a whole food-nothing is left out of the natural product, but beware commercial honey- the bees are sometimes fed sugar water instead of flower nectar- buy from a beekeeper who lets you see their operation.
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by labrat [750.2097] on April 23, 2006 at 09:44:08:
Okay to take it one step further.. is the processing of stevia natural? Any chemicals used to get stevia from the plant, in other words?
For example I understand carageenan is derived from seaweed.. however I also understand the extraction process is chemical, so it's best to avoid carageenan.
In Reply to: Sugar posted by Grace [4800.74] on April 23, 2006 at 08:44:00:
My understanding from reading the book is that sugar is sugar
is sugar, no matter the source. So the sugar in a lemon is too
much for the PERFECT whole foods diet (she says to use lemon
oil instead).
In another thread I mentioned that I thought Ezekiel Bread was a
whole food. It is, but not a PERFECT whole food as it contains
Malted Barley, which I believe contains sugar because in other
places in the book she mentions malted products as sugar.
But again, only on the PERFECT whole foods diet, not a whole
foods diet. Depends what you are trying to do.
I have heard that a substitute for sugar might be naturally made
apple sauce. But then I get confused. If a lemon isn't allowed
but applesauce is, I don't get it. Ah well. Maybe someone else
understands it better than me.
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Eric d'cleric [1815.293] on April 23, 2006 at 06:38:04:
"perfect whole food diet" because that does not permit sugar in any form.
That would eliminate all carbohydrates, whole or not. If true, plants must go, and animal based foods too as they also contains carbs.
In Reply to: Sugar posted by Grace [4800.74] on April 23, 2006 at 08:44:00:
Hi Grace,
About sugar and the PWFD, this ultimately has to do with what sugar does to the body. Sugar behaves as though it were a refined food, by leeching out nutrients from the body, so it is not allowed. It doesn't matter if it is honey or cane sugar or rapadura or molasses.....etc.
Some people cannot even eat fruit because it contains fructose (fruit sugar). I am one of those people. Stevia is okay, though.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by ANN [1003.516] on April 23, 2006 at 11:03:54:
Hi Ann,
I worked with Walt for a long time trying to understand how the PWFD works. It has to do with whether or not the content of the food has all the nutrients your body needs to metabolize it. Thus, honey is not allowed on the PWFD and stevia is. Thus, some people cannot eat fruit, even though fruit seems to be a whole food.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Happygal [2062.2032] on April 23, 2006 at 07:35:27:
Hi Happygal,
What is wrong with fruit in a whole food diet if it is whole and natural (not tinned etc.)? The sugar in it, if any, is natural too.
Maz
In Reply to: Re: Sugar posted by Happygal [2062.2032] on April 23, 2006 at 21:21:33:
How does natural sugar leech out the nutrients from the body?
Thanks.
Maz
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Happygal [2062.2032] on April 23, 2006 at 21:23:48:
thanks, Happygal(and I hope you are). I come from a wholistic macrobiotic perspective. In my view, fruits that are a problem have to do with their yin nature and the eater's geographic location. Stevia would be wholistic if you chewed the leaves.
My problem with the word 'perfect' in this context, is that it tends to be used in a kind of type A personality trait way. It's a stressor. The concept of doing things 'right' (like SR) seems to be messing with people's heads and their health-it's a super tense American thing.
Dear Dr Stoll told me he wouldn't do macrobiotics for himself because he couldn't do it 'right' so why do it at all. Of course, macrobiotics is a philosophy, not a diet, and that kind of attention to 'right' above all else, isn't consistent with oriental philosophy, which is about inner peace.
There's much good on this website, but many people very turbulent inside.
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by R. [2380.1351] on April 23, 2006 at 20:36:30:
I don't think all carbs are sugar - though all sugars are carbs...
am I wrong?
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Sugar posted by Maz [5538.624] on April 24, 2006 at 05:55:01:
Maz,
Read, again, the home page article and the description in the HFD archives. This is also spelled out in detail, in both of our books (SY & RYH).
EVERY GRAM OF REFINED CARBOHYDRATE YOU INGEST (whether it comes from sugar cane or a peeled potatoe) requires at least 100 micronutrients and macronutrients to metabolize it. IF those have been removed by the refining process, your body stores must provide them!
How many years do you think YOIUR genetics will let you do that before things start to become unraveled (chronic degenerative diseases)?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Sugar posted by Eric d'cleric [1815.293] on April 23, 2006 at 14:13:33:
Thanks, Eric.
Of course applesauce would be a no-no with the PWFD. As far as I am concerned, the PWFD should be only used by those who want to break the addiction to refined carbohydrates in the shortest possible period of time.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Sugar REVIEW METABOLISM! Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 24, 2006 at 07:30:33:
Not enough, not nearly enough.
Silver Fox!
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by labrat [1119.74] on April 24, 2006 at 07:18:34:
Hi Labrat,
All carbs are sugar (complex chains), but unrefined carbs are much slower to digest and release their sugar... preventing the rapid rises and drops in blood sugar which cause highs, fatigue, and illness.
Ron
In Reply to: Re: Sugar REVIEW METABOLISM! Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 24, 2006 at 07:30:33:
Thank you Walt.
I will never again peel a potato!!
However, I do think that an apple is a whole and natural food. Also, an orange, Also, a grape. What is the problem?
Maz
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by ANN [1003.516] on April 24, 2006 at 06:46:15:
Hi Ann,
If you read our book, we tried to make it so that each person could find a way to adapt the practices to suit his or her personality and traits. On one level, there is no "right" way to accomplish SR, since all people approach things differently.
However, there is a sort of baseline about doing something well enough to get results. If a person strays too much, they won't get well. I know because I meditated for 20 years and it didn't help my health problem. If people follow the directions and do it "right" they have a much better chance of seeing health improvements.
Each person has to weigh for him/herself if the results are worth making some effort.
Best wishes,
Jan
In Reply to: Re: Sugar REVIEW METABOLISM! Archive. posted by Maz [31.2632] on April 24, 2006 at 15:30:43:
Thannks, Maz.
Those items are almost void of trace nutrients because of deletion of the soils and the ratio of calories to the trace nutrients that are left.
This is true of all whole foods now but in these foods the ratio of carbohdrates to trace nutrients is a LOT higher.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Can a cookie ever be considered a whole food? posted by Grace [4800.74] on April 23, 2006 at 13:36:40:
I believe you can find more or less refined stevia. You can buy green powder made of the ground up leaves. That's pretty "whole". You can also buy white, more crystalline powder that I beleive has been refined further.
I have not looked into the processing issue since I don't use it. I tried it way back whenI was still trying to find substitutes for things. Since then I have realized it's just easier for me to do without certain things and get used to different flavors...
~~~8>
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