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Seems like every manufacturer claims their form or delivery system for vitamins and minerals is best. How is this determined? How should it be determined scientifically? Do we really know?
Thanks,
Sounder
In Reply to: Doc/HY any? posted by Sounder on December 03, 2002 at 18:49:27:
As far as tablets go, drop the tablet into some vinegar. It should break apart and disolve within 20 minutes. If it does not, chances are, you won't break down the supplement but by no means is this 100% accurate. When looking at tablets, keep in mind that the more fillers and binders added, the less probability that a supplement will be absorbed well. Now, with capsules......just because a supplement is in capsule or powder form doesn't mean that it will be well-absorbed as well. It depends on weather the supplement was subjected to high heat, oxygen, light, and in what form the nutrients are in (calcium carbonate? calcium citrate?). Some forms of nutrients are better absorbed than others. Liquid supplements are probably the best absorbed but again, many factors contribute to this. Water measures at about 80 dynes. If a liquid supplement measures at 80 dynes or higher, the likelyhood of absorption is nill. If the supplement is less than 80 dynes, meaning thinner than water, the supplement will be absorbed quite well.
My supplements are all whole food supplements that contain no fillers, binders, artifical or synthetic nutrients, and have been processed without the use of heat, light, chemicals, oxygen, and have even been enhanced by a natural process called fermentation. This "pre-digests" the nutrients in a way which allows for better absorption by the digestion track. All of us really need to become experts in supplement manufacturing techniques so that we can be equipped to pick the good from the bad. I hope this helps
-HY
In Reply to: Doc/HY any? posted by Sounder on December 03, 2002 at 18:49:27:
any food-based nutrient will absorb better than an isolate and is cheaper per unit of assimilated nutrient. If you are asking about so-called "natural" vitamin & mineral isolates, consider the FORM of nutrient in terms of its chemical composition (as HY suggested) because they each vary. For example, most chelated minerals will be absorbed in the neighborhood of 20-50%, but published studies are of little value because individual physiology is itself a variable in nutrient synthesis at the cellular level. I am personally opposed to daily use of synthetic vitamins regardless of their synergies because I feel that vitamins should be 100% organic. It is said that b-vitamins are well absorbed in their synethsized form although I haven't had a chance to check that one out. You can find studies on cellular uptake but your best bet is to understand what vitamins and minerals ARE and how they work.
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by PeterB on December 03, 2002 at 22:02:05:
Here is something I learned within the past few months that you may or may not be aware of. Many "food-based" nutrients that are sold as supplements are nothing more than isolated nutrients that are grown around a nutritional yeast matrix or some kind of whole food matrix. The claim is that the nutrient just gets configured somehow into this whole food matrix. This theory, however, doesn't hold water. To my knowledge, an isolated nutrient cannot simply become a whole-food nutrient. New Chapter is an example of a company that does this. These nutrients are not true whole food supplements. Lots of people also have allergic reactions to the yeast that is used. You may know this already. From your post, you seem quite knowledgable on the subject. I just thought I would mention it because this piece of info can often go unnoticed. Take Care
-HY
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by Helping You on December 03, 2002 at 20:13:27:
I posted awhile back about testing your supplements in vinegar-The replies I got was this was not so. But to my knowledge you did not reply. I have been testing some of my supplements and my naturessunshine brand does not break down-but my shaklee ones do. How do you know which company is the best? To many companies and not sure who to go with.
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by Dee on December 04, 2002 at 10:28:42:
Hi, Dee.
In MY opinion you cannot beat Shaklee. There are many that are equivalent like ViSan, Nutralite, Standard Process, etc.
Walt
In Reply to: Doc/HY any? posted by Sounder on December 03, 2002 at 18:49:27:
NMI
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by Dee on December 04, 2002 at 10:28:42:
It's easy to research a company. You can check the Better Buisness Bureau, consumer reports, and you can learn about manufacturing processes in order to recognize when a company is being cheap with their manufactoring or when they are carefully meticulous about their products. Go with a company that has a long history of having a good reputation. Learn about nutrient forms and learn to read labels to understand what "extras" are being added to the supplements. Is the supplement made with cheap fillers and binders? Was the supplement manufactered in a way that exposed it to high heat? Does the supplement contain inferior ingredients? These are all questions that you need to know before purchasing a supplement. They put you in the driver's seat and give you the power to choose the best for you instead of falling victim to fly-by-night companies that are just out to make a buck on false claims and advertisement. You can learn all of these aspects through the internet. I hope that helps
-HY
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by Helping You on December 03, 2002 at 23:28:38:
Its true we can define "whole food" very strictly and that a yeast substrate does not provide the complexity of food that is found in most edible plants. But then, people will also argue about whether an apple is better for you than a banana or an orange. This also highlights the problem in how the word "natural" is used by the vitamin industry to refer to chemically-synthesized vitamins. I would love to know what would qualify as an UN-natural vitamin if one created in the laboratory does not. One of my co-workers says his vitamins (from the drug store) are "100% natural," which he accepts on the basis of seeing those words on the label. So he has no idea that his supplement is closer to being 100% synthetic! As for using yeast to grow nutrients in volume, the process is 100% organic and the molecular weights of those nutrients are exactly what our cells can take in. For that reason, I think its fair to call them a "whole food" supplement (more fair than calling a synthetic vitamin natural.) Certainly, a whole food supplement SHOULD mean a combination of NATURALLY-occuring co-factors in the richest possible food matrix. But I can overlook the limitation of the technology because it gives me a lot nutrient value I wouldn't get (organically) otherwise.
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by Helping You on December 04, 2002 at 13:40:21:
Thanks, HY.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? posted by PeterB on December 04, 2002 at 20:34:01:
Certainly it IS better than traditional vitamins but as far as I know, the end result will never be identical to a true whole food supplement. I'd really like to know how an isolated nutrient like vitamin C will suddenly contain all the bioflavanoids, small amounts of amino acids, minerals and trace minerals needed for optimal absorption simply by being grown on a yeast matrix. New Chapter has not responded to a single email that I have sent. I'm not suprised :-)
For the ones that would state "an apple is better than a banana or an orange", I would say this: These people are thinking along the same lines as your co-worker. The apple may contain certain nutrients proven for good health, but the banana and orange contain nutrients on available in the apple although they may be researched less. That's why we need to vary our foods and not rely on any one food. The comparison is, many people depend on one vitamin or one mineral to keep "healthy" because it is highly researched or praised. Vitamin C and calcium come to mind. However, they fail to realize that these nutrients need their natural co-factors, some not even discovered yet, to have their benefical effect. Hopefully, more will learn. Until then, all you can do is get the information out to these people. Take Care
-HY
In Reply to: Doc/HY any? posted by Sounder on December 03, 2002 at 18:49:27:
Thanks for all your replies.
I try to take capsules or liquid form of supplements when possible. I am familiar with the krebs cycle, vinegar test, and other basic theories. Perhaps assimilation would have been a better word choice than absorbtion. Here is paste from a post by Jan S on what i would like to see more of, only larger sampling, independent studies, with controls. I wonder what would the results be if a study group ate 2 more servings of fruits and vegetables per day. Also adding qualitative results as well would be nice vs a placebo.
>>"Fifteen healthy individuals were supplemented with dehydrated fruit and vegetable extracts (JuicePlus+TM). Each volunteer took two capsules of the fruit extract and two capsules of the vegetable extract daily for 28 days. After 28 days, plasma levels of antioxidants increased significantly relative to baseline: beta carotene 510%; alpha carotene 119%; lutein/zeaxanthin, 44%; lycoprene 2,046%; and alpha-tocopherol, 58%. Serum levels of lipid peroxides decreased fourfold after 7 days and remained significantly below baseline levels after 28 days." <<
Guess I won't hold my breath, and just do the best I can with the information available. I remember talking to a naturapath about the lack data. She was just interested in getting her patients well and quantifying results was not a priority. Gets frustrating sometimes.
S
In Reply to: Re: Doc/HY any? thanks posted by Sounder on December 05, 2002 at 20:27:36:
Most "health" studies are funded by the pharmas and since they can't patent fruit and veggies ...
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