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Dr. Stoll,
I'm back again with more questions about my magnesium deficiency. I recently found out that my potassium level (serum and intracellular) is low. Apparently none of the 3 doctors I've been to lately saw this as a problem. Can this alone be causing my pvc's, or is this a result of my magnesium deficiency, and once that is cleared up, the potassium level will go up because of the magnesium level being normal?
Again, I am unable for some reason to take any supplements without making my symptoms worse for some reason. I am continuing to search for an explanation for this, so hopefully it can be resolved. I found the following on an afib website, and was wondering what you thought:
"Potassium levels should be monitored carefully during magnesium repletion in the hypokalemic patient; magnesium causes a shift of potassium into cells and thus may intensify the hypokalemia if [magnesium is] given alone.” Altura, etal (1)
Could the fact that I am BOTH magnesium and potassium deficient account for the reason that taking magnesium causes more pvc's for me? ie; when I take magnesium, it is not being absorbed, this making me lose more potassium and worsening my symptoms.
Just some thoughts, hoping to figure out this mystery.
Renee
In Reply to: magnesium/potassium link posted by Renee [932.1366] on March 03, 2005 at 12:21:55:
I have the same problem. I am low in potassium, and probably magnesium but when I take them they make my heart go crazy w/PVC's, even some that turn into SVT.
I take prescription potassium everyday and when I try to add in magnesium my heart goes nuts..I never understood why. I thought maybe the magnesium makes the potassium level go too high...I don't know. Wish we could figure it out though. I often wonder why I am low in potassium, but my aldosterone (adrenal hormone) is high and that can lead to low K ....so maybe that is ?..?
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link posted by karen [2503.1614] on March 03, 2005 at 17:43:16:
So the Magnesium made the PVC's WORSE in your case? I was hoping that the Mg helped....
In Reply to: magnesium/potassium link posted by Renee [932.1366] on March 03, 2005 at 12:21:55:
Why does everyone assume that PVCs or PACs are from low mag? I mean, that's ONE reason - but isn't there a myriad of reasons - including hormones and stress?
I would think that if it is stress related - when you add things that your body has to work at releasing - it ...stresses it?
Also - what about the fact that too much mag gives you a loose bowel effect, thus possibly losing electrolytes like potassium?
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link posted by Michele [20.1774] on March 03, 2005 at 19:37:31:
Michele,
I believe my low magnesium/potassium at least contributes to the pvc's, because they are a classic symptom of both deficiencies. Also, from everything that I've read, low magnesium and potassium make your nerves (cardiac, vagus, everything else) hyperexcitable.
So then stress, hormonal changes, GERD (for some people), is able to trigger the cardiac muscle. If I had stress alone, with a normal magnesium level, I don't think the pvc's would occur. Also, stress depletes magnesium. A lot of people have excess adrenaline, hormonal changes, etc., but don't get pvc's. This is just my theory, of course.
Stress causes low mag, and low mag causes more stress and makes you more susceptible to the effects of stress. Since I KNOW that I'm low in mag, I am trying to remedy this.
Dr. Stoll, does my theory make sense?
Also, Michele, I am not taking much magnesium, and it has not caused any bowel problems whatsoever. I do agree, though, that if you are causing diarrhea, this could make the problem worse. (I think I did that 2-3 months ago, and made my problem worse.) I am now trying to take a minute amount of mag, and I seem to get a reaction, unless it's just a coincidence, and I was having a bad day anyway)_
I would just love to find out why someone who is low in magnesium gets a bad reaction from taking it, instead of the opposite effect. It is very depressing to say the least.
Renee
In Reply to: magnesium/potassium link posted by Renee [932.1366] on March 03, 2005 at 12:21:55:
Thanks, Renee.
This IS a concern in genetically susceptible persons (rare). The solution is to go to the library and have the reference librarian find you a book with food analyses listed. You need to sort through the lists and find those foods that are high in magnesium AND potassium. Shift your diet to include as many of these as possible.
Please let us know what these foods are for the BB paritcipants edification--and mine.
Let us know how you do. The combination of all the other ingredients that accompany these minerals, in their natural state, will help a very sensitive person assimilate them.
You could see a good Naturopath for a more complete explanation or even a listing of these foods. We MDs are not taught stuff like this (ALAS!).
Walt
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link (Archive in supplements.) posted by Walt Stoll [93.1465] on March 04, 2005 at 08:03:32:
I have a friend that has a similar problem. Would taking these nutrients via IV work better than orally?
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link (Archive in supplements.) posted by Walt Stoll [93.1465] on March 04, 2005 at 08:03:32:
Dr. Stoll,
Thanks for the advice. I will look up those foods. I do tend to believe, though, that the potassium wouldn't be a problem for me if I could somehow get enough magnesium into my cells. Maybe after I have the baby I will finally convince someone to try the IV magnesium.
By the way, can you comment on my theory that I posted to Michele in this thread about low magnesium making your nerves more excitable, etc.?
Thanks a lot!
Renee
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link posted by Renee [932.1366] on March 04, 2005 at 07:47:28:
Now I know what you mean; I was assuming (ASSuming lol) that you were taking a lot and having bowel issues, thus lowering potassium.
I always run low in potassium myself and would love to know how to "keep" it... I hear if you have enough Mag, you will retain the Potassium...however, if I take more mag, I seem to have more PACS and feel edgy!
Go figure.
I'm in a similar boat to you I guess.
Will you share if you get high mag/pot foods?
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link posted by Ted [863.1836] on March 03, 2005 at 19:24:38:
Ted,
Please don't go by me, I seem to be one of very few exceptions. If you're low in magnesium, or having a dysrhythmia, read the wonderful archives and testimonials on this site, and try the magnesium. There are SO MANY people that it helps. I think it will help me, too, eventually, I just may need the IV form first.
Good luck!
Renee
In Reply to: I see now... posted by Michele [6.1774] on March 04, 2005 at 13:06:10:
Michele,
I'm researching the foods; I will let you know. So far:
1 cup chopped walnuts: 202 mg. Magnesium
602 mg. Potassium
1 cup whole, unblanched 420 mg. Mag
Almonds 691 mg. Potassium
Hope you're not allergic to nuts!
I will eventually post the whole list under a separate name in order to share with everyone who's interested.
Renee
Renee
In Reply to: Re: I see now... posted by Renee [932.1366] on March 04, 2005 at 17:37:42:
Not allergic to nuts at all; this will be great!
I realize that nuts are a great thing to have if one is on the beach (losing fluids) *Which I will be in the bahamas in 12 days*
**you'd understand my glee if you knew I was leaving snowy, cold, bitter ice Pennsylvania :)
In Reply to: Re: I see now... posted by Michele [15.1774] on March 05, 2005 at 06:18:44:
Michele,
I am understandably jealous of your Bahamas trip. I live in New Jersey where it's not any better than Pennsylvania.
Hope you have fun! Bring lots of walnuts and almonds!
Renee
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link (Archive in supplements.) posted by dmaryd [1059.1400] on March 04, 2005 at 08:40:46:
Hi, dmaryd.
For almost anyone, yes. They would have to be careful about the potassium IV, though. For longer term improvement the food approach is preferable. The main thing IV does is give results right now and prove the relationship to the symptoms.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: magnesium/potassium link (Archive in supplements.) posted by Renee [932.1366] on March 04, 2005 at 08:44:18:
Yep, Renee.
It happens!
Walt
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