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Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi Disinformation.

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Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

Hi Dr. Stoll and everyone, My husband heard on the radio yesterday that a study of 160,000 people was done who take multi-vitamins and it was concluded that these vitamins don't do a thing for you. What's up with this? And if it's true, how about other supplements??

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7432] on March 06, 2009 at 08:15:05:

In Reply to: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

Hi Georgia,

It could be that the amounts of the vitamins and minerals in those multi- supplements are too small to actually be of much help. Walt has said that the RDA is only big enough to keep people from becoming seriously ill.

It could also be that most manufacturers don't really take the time or trouble to produce a quality product. Personally I'd never buy vitamins from an ordinary drug store or grocery store, only the higher quality brands from a health food store or online supplement store.

It could also be that what's in the multi's are not what people actually need. They could be like trying to make a one-size-fits-all pair of shoes -- doesn't fit anyone well.

Food for thought.

Best wishes,
Jan



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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 08:42:07:

In Reply to: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

Jan nailed it. These studies typically do not adjust for food-based vs. synthetic vitamin supplements because most people take inferior synthetic "vitamins" produced by the pharmaceuticals, so we would not expect a good outcome. I bought a $6 toaster a few months ago, it barely managed to be a space heater.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by Michele [4954.6457] on March 06, 2009 at 09:08:14:

In Reply to: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

If one takes a vitamin not as a supplement but as a trade, no it won't
help MUCH.

If it is synthetic it still can - a chemical is a chemical. But natural is
better.

That is like saying people who drink water do not lose weight. It's too
vague. You have to put a lot of other things into the variable to make
or break something.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by craig [13653.7406] on March 06, 2009 at 09:49:33:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7432] on March 06, 2009 at 08:15:05:

Jan is 100% CORRECT ..... It is physically impossible to "package" the dosages reqired for therapuetic assistance in one small dose.
In particular Vitamins like "C" and "E" as an example require a capsule LARGER than most of the Multi's.
In my opinion if you are taking a "one a day" type of multi you are wasting your money.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 10:01:10:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by Michele [4954.6457] on March 06, 2009 at 09:08:14:

"If it is synthetic it still can - a chemical is a chemical. But natural is better."

Michelle, what does the phrase "a chemical is a chemical" mean to you? If it's true, why is natural better?


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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by Vini [12677.7406] on March 06, 2009 at 10:13:20:

In Reply to: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

We need to target those vitamins which we are deficient in and in much higher doses than multis can ever provide. Also not all vitamins combine well with others when it comes to absorption. Though I have never taken multis I am not surprised if they do not help.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 10:19:48:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by craig [13653.7406] on March 06, 2009 at 09:49:33:

Craig, your comment that it's physically impossible to package therapeutic doses into a single pill would depend on your definition of therapeutic. There is ample scientific evidence that taking even a single multivitamin provides a health benefit, even the AMA relented on this during the 1990s. I myself began taking a TwinLab multi at one time, and although it was far from an ideal formulation, my energy levels were up dramatically after six months. A single pill each day can even cure diseases, otherwise iron-deficient anemia could not respond to an iron tablet after a couple of months. I do agree with you a multi won't provide robust amounts of C and E, but in my opinion, a positive benefit can have more to do with quality than quantity.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by VF [12036.7502] on March 06, 2009 at 14:20:00:

In Reply to: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

I think it depends. Probably won't help a healthy person. I never took ones my dad would give me a bottle of, to try to encourage me to take them. I tried them, and not noticing anything, and Nothing to help. I would forget about them. After an injury from an exposure to some chemicals, that damaged every system in my body. I tried one when in agonizing pain from physical activity, and they cut the pain in half. No more, but I found that zinc cut about 90% of the pains. What I did notice was, that taking them for pain, I stopped catching a cold a few days after. I probably was not absorbing nutrients like I should, and maybe not utilizing them well, and the multi was getting me up to higher levels.

I don't take them regularly, and too many are said to cause problems, but I will try them when trying to fix one of my many problems. Sometimes they help, Even opening restricted sinuses. My feeling is, if something doesn't work fast, I don't stay with it. People say that Nothing works that fast, but most things That Will Work, work Fast with me. I don't want to suffer waiting for something to work, and rather look for something that Will. I think almost everything can be bad for us. Even oxygen causes free radicals, and why Antioxidants are recommended. If something Helps me I will take it, if not, I won't. We don't know what long term use of something Said to be good might do to hurt us, or the particular brand. I think it is better to take the minimum, and Only that which helps us, which is Definite proof that we needed it.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by craig [13653.7406] on March 06, 2009 at 15:59:27:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 10:19:48:

Peter .... Your opinion. I disagree.A typical 500 MG. "C" is larger than many "one-a- day" whiz bangs.
The fact you "feel better" is anecdotal.
The more someone is deficient in one or more vitamins or essential oils/ minerals etc the more a one a day would benefit them. If you are looking to lower CRP, dangerous lipid levels, Homocysteine etc the more they need theraputic levels.None of those conditions will be much changed by a Multi which is exactly why the media reports (and correctly so) that there is no measurable health benefits in Multis.Now go to a third world country where the diet is at near starvation levels and you may see a health benefit from a multi.That's because we Americans cram enough crap into our pieholes to get close to MDR in spite of the negative side effects.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 16:47:36:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by craig [13653.7406] on March 06, 2009 at 15:59:27:

Hi Craig, I'm not sure what it is you are rebutting here. I don't recall saying anything about the size of a vitamin C cap compared to a multivitamin, and I don't see why it would matter. Do you recall I agreed with you that a multi contains less than robust amounts of vitamins C and E? Our opinions actually matched on that point. For what it's worth, my multi (MegaFood brand) happens to be larger than the "OO" cap containing 500mg of vit. C + 500mg of bioflavonoids (NaturesWay), but again, what is the relevance of that?

"The fact you "feel better" is anecdotal."

That's true, but in the absence of other measures applied to my chronic (long-term) energy problems at the time, I had no other factor or factors to which I could associate the remarkable change.

"The more someone is deficient in one or more vitamins or essential oils/ minerals etc the more a one a day would benefit them."

Exactly, we agree on that, as well. It's also a reason why even use of inferior supplements can be better than nothing at all.

"If you are looking to lower CRP, dangerous lipid levels, Homocysteine etc the more they need theraputic levels. None of those conditions will be much changed by a Multi which is exactly why the media reports (and correctly so) that there is no measurable health benefits in Multis."

That's a non sequitur, Craig. The fact that nutrients at levels above the RDIs are therapeutic (a true statement, in my opinion) does not mean there is no "measurable health benefit in multis," it just means what they measured didn't change. I might prove that you had as many colds while taking vitamin C as you did before taking it, that wouldn't disprove the benefits of taking vitamin C more generally. And there are studies that *do* show reduced disease risk in people who take multivitamins.

Thanks for your time and thoughts on this.

Peter

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 16:58:17:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by VF [12036.7502] on March 06, 2009 at 14:20:00:

Hi Vince, I always said that you're a good scientist. It reminds me of the character Striker in the X-men movie when he said, "I'm a scientist, Lieutenant. When I build a machine, I wanna know that it's workin.'" ;)

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by VF [12036.7502] on March 06, 2009 at 18:19:21:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 16:58:17:

PB, I wouldn't remember to take something, with my memory problems, unless it helped me. If it did help something, and I'd have to be sure it does, since if there is any doubt, and even if not I might forget. B-1 can get me moving when I really want to and can't, and I will just start, but if I try it to see if I can use it any time, it doesn't help.

I read that too many multi vits, increased the risk of prostate cancer. Then I think how often I try it, to try to do something it hasn't before, and it is fairly often. At least I don't take it daily no matter what.

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 22:34:57:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by VF [12036.7502] on March 06, 2009 at 18:19:21:

That's also the traditional method used in herbal medicine (chinese or western, I can't recall), I think it's called "pulsing." We never get the same amt of nutrients in our regular diet from day to day, either, so that approach is consistent with nature. Good to see you around, take care...

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi-Archive in vitamins. Disinformation

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7469] on March 07, 2009 at 07:32:06:

In Reply to: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by georgia [9347.2765] on March 06, 2009 at 07:19:29:

Georgia,

In MY opinion, this is just another stab at the public with the ongoing disinformation campaign by the AMA/Big Pharma combine. Keep learning. I do agree, however, that most of the Multis advertised on TV are pretty worthless. See the vitamins archives to start.

Walt

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7469] on March 07, 2009 at 07:43:58:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 10:19:48:

Thanks, PeterB.

In my opinion, when a multi helps like this it ususlly means that "the luck of the draw" is working. Keep it up when it works.

Walt

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by craig [13653.7406] on March 07, 2009 at 09:50:27:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by PeterB [12888.1399] on March 06, 2009 at 16:47:36:

too tedious for me Peter. I answer questions with my opinion and you seem to want to approach things in some pseudo scientific way.
Multi's are useless to most people getting 3 meals a day. REVERSING things like bad lipid profile, homocysteine levels, lowering high CRP levels can be done effectively with THERAPUTIC levels of the proper supplements. The study showed no health benefits. I agreed for the above reasons and think that answered the ladies question from MY point of view.Let's not complicate things.Anyone wishing to take a multi I say , have at it.
If like most here you are asking about how to improve some malady then taking a Multi ain't gonna do it. That's my OPINION now let's go to the next subject,eh?

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Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi

Posted by PeterB [183.1399] on March 07, 2009 at 23:25:39:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by craig [13653.7406] on March 07, 2009 at 09:50:27:

Hi Craig, it would be impossible for us to be in agreement on every point, but we did agree on many things, and that's what it takes to learn from one another. As for the study, I'm not impressed with research designed to "beg the question," it's reductionist and promotes a false dichotomy of "either/or" when the reality is "if/when." In my mind, what's most important is not to learn new things, but to learn new ways of thinking *about* things. Thanks again for your thoughts. Be well.

Peter

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errata

Posted by p.s. [183.1399] on March 07, 2009 at 23:29:02:

In Reply to: Re: Multi-Vitamins, do they help or not???Hi posted by PeterB [183.1399] on March 07, 2009 at 23:25:39:

Hi Craig, it would be impossible for us to be in agreement on every point, but we did agree on many things, and that's what it takes to learn from one another. As for the study, I'm not impressed with research designed to "beg the question," it's reductionist and promotes a false dichotomy of "either/or" when the reality is "if/when." In my mind, what's most important is not to simply learn new things, but to learn new ways of thinking *about* things. Thanks again for your thoughts. Be well.

Peter



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