Walt,
I have started having a problem with bursitis in my left hip recently. I was in an auto accident five years ago and injured this hip, but nothing was ever found to be really wrong with it (they did x-rays and even an MRI). I have had problems with it from time to time through the years, but recently (in the past year) have had three flareups of bursitis in it.
I read the archives during my last flareup, and started the B6 200 mg, increased my intake of B complex, and was already on self-administered magnesium injections (1 gram twice a week), and still am as of this writing. I also take 400 mg of magnesium asportate every morning along with digestive enzymes.
I am in a great deal of pain at this writing, and my osteopath prescribed Naprosyn the last time I saw him for this (which I refuse to take), but I have taken a few low doses of ibuprofen (which I'm also not too thrilled about, considering my LGS). I was in the health food store today, and it was recommended that I take a combination of chondroitin & glucosamine for the bursitis. What are your thoughts on this?
I have applied heat (which currently feels better than ice) and am trying to stay off of it, but it still hurts, because I can't seem to find a comfortable position to sit or lay (the pain kept me up until 5:00 am last night). I am continuing with my SR, and have recently started the H-G diet (although I didn't do the elimination diet beforehand).
Any recommendations? Is the chondroitin/glucosamine safe to take, and will it help any? Also, is this eventually going to turn into arthritis (it runs in my family)? I'm only 44, and think that's a little young to hobbling around on a bad hip like an old woman! Thanks, as always, for your help.
Sara
Follow Ups:
Re: Bursitis flareup
Posted by Peter Wray on January 24, 1999 at 11:46:33:
In Reply to: Bursitis flareup posted by Sara on January 23, 1999 at 21:52:45:
Sara,
My wife had bursitis in her left shoulder. She couldn't find a comfortable position to sleep, which just made things worse and worse. Her mainstream GP offered the latest drugs and motrin. She found a physiotherapist who did accupuncture. It worked like a charm. I'd highly recommend accupuncture for bursitis.
Peter
Follow Ups:
Re: Bursitis flareup
Posted by Sara on January 24, 1999 at 11:52:06:
In Reply to: Re: Bursitis flareup posted by Peter Wray on January 24, 1999 at 11:46:33:
Peter,
My doctor has also recommended accupuncture, but my insurance doesn't cover it (or chiropractic, which helped it before, when I had coverage for it). Both are considered "alternative" and are therefore not covered by my current policy. If my funds weren't so limited, I would gladly try it.
Thanks,
Sara
Follow Ups:
Re: Bursitis flareup
Posted by Walt Stoll on January 24, 1999 at 12:05:36:
In Reply to: Bursitis flareup posted by Sara on January 23, 1999 at 21:52:45:
Dear Sara,
Unfortunately, you are going to have to realize that BY FAR the biggest cost of chronic illness is NOT the money but what it does to your quality of life (which ends up costing you a lot more money in the long run than if you just paid for what worked in the beginning).
Next, IN THE LONG RUN, the regular practice of SR is not expensive and will do you the most good. In the short run, Chiropractic, massage (deep, total body, therapeutic massage 3 times a week for 2 weeks), Rolfing or Acupuncture is your best bet. Also, any orthopedist or Osteopath worth his/her salt would have a pulsed diathermy in the office that would do you a lot of good as well (And insurance WILL pay for that!)
You really have to get past continuing to do what you can get "free", that doesn't work, instead of paying for what DOES work and getting it over with.
I know how you don't want to hear this. However, this is why I am bending all my efforts at breaking the allopthic monopoly. It is its fault that insurance companies only pay for allopathy.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Bursitis flareup
Posted by Sara on January 24, 1999 at 12:21:18:
In Reply to: Re: Bursitis flareup posted by Walt Stoll on January 24, 1999 at 12:05:36:
Walt,
I understand what you're saying, and I agree. However, presently it's not a matter of me being too tight with the money; I REALLY can't afford accupuncture or chiropractic at this time. I've been out of work since July, and living on just my husband's income hasn't been easy. My osteopath does do adjustments, and I feel better afterwards, but I couldn't get in to see him yesterday (he is closed on Saturdays) and I am just desperate for some pain relief.
However, getting back to a few of my original questions, is the chondroitin/glucosamine safe to take, and will it help any? Also, is this a precursor to arthritis?
Thanks,
Sara
Follow Ups:
Re: Bursitis flareup
Posted by Nancy on January 24, 1999 at 13:52:59:
In Reply to: Re: Bursitis flareup posted by Sara on January 24, 1999 at 11:52:06:
Sara
Skilled relaxation REALLY works for bursitis! I had it as one of many symptoms of fibromyalgia. It's not an instant cure, but in the long run, the best one. Also, try eliminating all night shade vegetables (tomatoes, white potatoes, peppers--bell & cayenne, eggplant). I got immediate relief for that on many symptoms. All this is free, except for the cost of whatever tape you use for relaxation. I use BrainSync tapes & cd's.
Good luck!
Re: Bursitis flareup
Posted by Walt Stoll on January 25, 1999 at 11:12:08:
In Reply to: Re: Bursitis flareup posted by Sara on January 24, 1999 at 12:21:18:
Hi, Sara.
The glucosamine/chondroitin is safe but probably won't help this. This probably IS a precurser to arthritis since they both are caused by the same bracing.
One thing you CAN do with VERY little expense is the SR. Go to the free library and get the relaxation workbook I mentioned--you don't even have to check it out. Read in the beginning how to figure out the best thing for you to try first. Then go to the copy machine & copy the pages relating to only THAT approach.
THEN, go home & DO it at least twice a day for 20 minutes as described so many times on this BB.
That will cost you about 50 cents and some discipline on your part.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Not bursitis after all
Posted by Sara on January 25, 1999 at 11:19:52:
In Reply to: Re: Bursitis flareup posted by Walt Stoll on January 25, 1999 at 11:12:08:
Walt,
I saw my doctor this morning, and he told me it's not bursitis after all. He said the whole left side of my back is tight, and it is resulting in a major muscle spasm on the left side of my butt. He adjusted me, and I do feel a little better. I haven't been doing my SR as religiously as I had been, so I guess maybe that's what did it. I do have the relaxation workbook already, and had been doing meditation for months. Maybe I need to try something different, say maybe progressive relaxation? I'll read through the book again and see if another approach might be better.
Thanks for your help,
Sara
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Lincoln on January 25, 1999 at 17:17:13:
In Reply to: Not bursitis after all posted by Sara on January 25, 1999 at 11:19:52:
I've been watching the "Scientific Back Training" videos by Paul Chek and what you describe sounds like a perfect example of what he talks about.
If the whole left side of your back is tight, then another part of your body is 'loose'. In other words, you sound like you have a muscle imbalance problem. Your back muscles are possibly too strong and too tight for an opposing muscle group to compensate. This might have happened from your accident - you may have started recruiting your muscles differently as a means of avoiding pain. As you overworked certain muscles in a limited range of motion, they got both strong and short. (This is how I threw out my back when I was 18. My hamstrings became incredibly inflexible, which puts a terrible strain on my lower back muscles. They responded by going into spasms.) Then a cascade of mis-alignement starts as your body gets pulled out of wack by these overly strong and tight muscles.
Getting adjusted will only provide temporary relief - as soon as you get back from the adjustment you will go back to the same poor motor recruitment patterns that caused the problems in the first place. You need to go to a good physical therapist who can identify the root cause of this muscle imbalance. The therapy will involve stretching the tightened muscles and strengthening the opposing weak muscles.
Hope this helps.
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 18:40:01:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Lincoln on January 25, 1999 at 17:17:13:
As commonly as muslcles pull things "out of alignment" there is a mechanism where the misalignment causes the muscles to spasm and brace the area. In many cases you can correct the misalignment and only the ligament laxity is to fault for the "re-misalignment". Other times it is the stress related body bracing that pulls things out of alignment.
Point being, I have found idea of muscle strength imbalance to be the cause of chronic back pain in only a small number of people. ALL the rest are a result of bracing, posture, chronic microtrauma, horrible diet, ligament damage, etc.. In Sara's case, the trauma to her spine from the accident would cause a primary misalignment which would cause the muscles to spasm(as you said). These muscle spasms could cause OTHER ar
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 18:40:14:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Lincoln on January 25, 1999 at 17:17:13:
As commonly as muslcles pull things "out of alignment" there is a mechanism where the misalignment causes the muscles to spasm and brace the area. In many cases you can correct the misalignment and only the ligament laxity is to fault for the "re-misalignment". Other times it is the stress related body bracing that pulls things out of alignment.
Point being, I have found idea of muscle strength imbalance to be the cause of chronic back pain in only a small number of people. ALL the rest are a result of bracing, posture, chronic microtrauma, horrible diet, ligament damage, etc.. In Sara's case, the trauma to her spine from the accident would cause a primary misalignment which would cause the muscles to spasm(as you said). These muscle spasms could cause OTHER areas to misalign. Correcting the ORIGINAL site of trauma and not focusing on the now symptomatic areas is VITAL to the long term resolution. If you don't correct the original areas then anytime there is body bracing the whole process will continue.
You are 100% right on the money about the back problem appearing as a bursitis problem.
Namaste'
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Lincoln on January 25, 1999 at 19:15:10:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 18:40:14:
Whereas Chek probably works with many athletes, perhaps 'normal' patients have less incidence of muscle imbalance, as you state. Athletes, especially weight training athletes, do a lot of things to mess up their musculature, it seems.
In lieu of a chiropractor/physical therapist to identify the source, what could someone do to help self-diagnose the source of the original problem? Could they perhaps institute a "shotgun" approach of overall muscular/skeletal wellness? If so, what would that be? A combination resistance-training and stretching program? Or just a stretching program alone, given that self-administered resistance programs are sometimes injury-inducing themselves?
I'm aching to finish Chek's video series. It's tough going, as the tapes are very technical and I do not have a professional background in kinesiology, but they are fascinating nonetheless. Maybe I'll learn enough to keep my back healthy for life, eh?
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 20:29:17:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Lincoln on January 25, 1999 at 19:15:10:
In athletes, you are right on target.
If I were looking to "shotgun" the whole musculoskeletal problem I would:
1. find a good chiropractor
2. practice skilled relaxation
3. learn about equally excercising opposing muscle groups.
4. learn what food allergies I might have
5. learn about correct posture(sleeping and awake)Highly important.
6. wear good shoes with the correct arch height.
7. warm-up and do light stretching before any excercise or hard work.
8. DO NOT "crack" your own back or neck.
9. Proper nutrition as always.
10. An exercise program that is not highly intensive and not overly stressful. As someone who used to lift heavy weights I can only say that correct technique is vital when doing programs that are more on the stressful side.
After the initial investment, this 'program' should cost less than $1 a day. Most of these things go for your WHOLE body and not just the ms/sk system.
Follow Ups:
Doc Dave: Another factor in the equation
Posted by Sara on January 25, 1999 at 22:42:44:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 18:40:14:
Doc Dave,
I don't know how much this might have to do with the problem, but I also have mild scoliosis. I've had problems with back spasms since my early 20's, and had occasional hip pain starting in my 30's (not counting the problems I had in my three pregnancies). But the ongoing problem with my left hip started after the accident.
If the scoliosis is a major contributing factor in this problem (and I know it can't be corrected), how is that dealt with?
Sara
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Lincoln on January 26, 1999 at 13:58:36:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 20:29:17:
Excellent comments.
>3. learn about equally excercising opposing muscle groups.
...
5. learn about correct posture(sleeping and awake)Highly important.
...
10. An exercise program that is not highly intensive and not overly stressful. As someone who used to lift heavy weights I can only say that correct technique is vital when doing programs that are more on the stressful side.<
Paul Chek is big on points 3, 5, and 10. I'm struck by how difficult they can be to achieve without proper instruction.
>7. warm-up and do light stretching before any excercise or hard work. <
I've been hearing contrasting opinions on the value of stretching before exercise. One camp says that stretching should be done only after the muscles have been fully warmed up. Chek uses pre-stretching as a way of temporarily weakening a muscle prior to exercise, especially in the case of over-dominant muscles. For example, he'll pre-stretch the hip-flexors if he sees that they overpower the abdominals when doing ab exercises. Interesting.
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Nancy on January 26, 1999 at 21:15:00:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 25, 1999 at 20:29:17:
Lincoln and Dave
Could I (a totally unqualified observer with only personal experience to go on) add a comment or two?
I found the practice of Feldenkrais to be very helpful in learning how to move my body so as not to hurt it. I don't attend classes anymore, but use what I learned from Feldenkrais in Yoga, walking, driving a car, turning, etc.
Also, I've found that for me Chiropractic was much more effective than PT in healing ITband dysfunction, lower back, shoulder, neck, and TMJ pain. I go in for a maintainence adjustment every 8-10 weeks. It took about a month of 3Xwk, 1 of 2Xwk, 1 of 1Xwk to fix me. I was going to PT for years without permanent healing before finding a chiro. who helped me (Thanks, Dave)
Follow Ups:
Re: Doc Dave: Another factor in the equation
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 26, 1999 at 22:59:42:
In Reply to: Doc Dave: Another factor in the equation posted by Sara on January 25, 1999 at 22:42:44:
For the most part the same thing that is causing the scoliosis is what is causing the current problem. Biomechanically speaking.
While some types of scoliosis can't be correct there are literally thousands of sucessful cases with SPECIFIC chiropractic care that has not only stopped but reversed the progression of the curvatures. You need someone who adjust SPECIFICALLY and not just popping and cracking to hear it. Someone who will be taking x-rays with line analysis and SPECIFIC attemts to correct the primary site of dysfunction.
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 26, 1999 at 23:08:40:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Lincoln on January 26, 1999 at 13:58:36:
That's basically why I said "light" stretching. The idea of "super stretching" is primarily only for gymnasts, martial artists, etc.
On mentioning abdominal excercises. Anyone who does even one more sit-up/crunch/etc. than they do back extension excercises is looking for a chronic problem. The constant birrage of "do sit-ups for back pain" without mentioning that this decreases the lumbar curve is a crime.
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 26, 1999 at 23:11:48:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Nancy on January 26, 1999 at 21:15:00:
Good comments Nancy.
Maintenance care is necessary for many people. Skilled relaxation is key to keeping these visits farther and farther apart.
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Walt Stoll on January 27, 1999 at 11:21:18:
In Reply to: Not bursitis after all posted by Sara on January 25, 1999 at 11:19:52:
Hi, Sara.
Listen to Doc Dave----especially his "list" of what you need to do about this.
Everything that has been mentioned (except the total body bracing) are effects of that basic cause. If you are going to permanently resolve this problem, the regular practice of EFFECTIVE SR is the only thing yet known.
From your note, I think you are saying that you did not get your SR practice checked out with the biofeedback that I recommended and you are paying the price right now. Correct me if I am worng since that would suggest that I missed something.
The Feldenkrais is a good suggestion as well and Rolfing would do you a world of good. However, none of this can change the fact that the SR (done correctly) is the single most important thing in the long run.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Sara on January 27, 1999 at 14:50:01:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Walt Stoll on January 27, 1999 at 11:21:18:
Walt,
No, I did not get my SR checked out by a biofeedback therapist. However, I did purchase a GSR machine months ago, and according to it, I am reaching the proper state. Maybe the machine is wrong though? I can close my eyes and within 30 seconds bring it down to a slow click; really ticks off my husband and kids (and I even set it at the highest sensitivity).
My doctor has sent me to a PT, and she is doing deep muscle massage on me. I just got back from my first session, and I feel terrific (I've never had a massage before). She feels that the scoliosis is definately contributing to my problems, and will be working with me doing the massage and teaching me some stretching exercises to strengthen my back muscles. I would love to also be seeing a chiropractor (like I had been a few years back), but as I said before my insurance won't cover it (nor will they cover accupuncture) and money is tight right now because I'm not working. They will cover the massage, but not the other stuff.....go figure.
Sara
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Lincoln on January 27, 1999 at 15:58:33:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on January 26, 1999 at 23:08:40:
>The constant birrage of "do sit-ups for back pain" without mentioning that this decreases the lumbar curve is a crime.<
Excellent point. Most ab exercises, being done incorrectly through either a partial range of motion or through working the psoas instead of the abs, from what I understand can actually contribute to back problems. My back certainly suffered when I was in high school doing endless sit-ups under the 'guidance' of the soccer team coaches.
In the video, Paul Chek analyzes the pelvic tilt of one of the instructors while she bends forward. Due to the fact her pelvis initiates rotation very early in the motion, he guesses that she has had disc problems. Lo and behold, it turns out she has had two discectomies. (sp?) She was doing this as a means of protecting her spine. He then guesses that she does a lot of half-crunches. Right again - she's an aerobics instructor. His advice - for her condition she should never do a half-crunch again. She groaned and rolled her eyes at that advice, probably because aerobics instructors make a living from teaching half-crunches.
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Walt Stoll on January 28, 1999 at 13:43:49:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Sara on January 27, 1999 at 14:50:01:
Hi, Sara.
Sounds like YOU have done the right thing. NOW, let's check out your equipment.
Hook yourself up as you have been and just sit there NOT trying to relax. See how the "clicks" do their thing.
It seems to me that your response is too quick for a relaxation technique (Although there ARE some experts that can do that, it is very unusual for someone at your stage of practice-----although not impossible.).
If your relaxation was working , you shouldn't have felt SO much better with the massage either----after THIS much time.
Let me know what happens.
Walt
Re: Not bursitis after all
Posted by Frank M on January 29, 1999 at 08:14:37:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Sara on January 27, 1999 at 14:50:01:
I would be interested to know where you can purchase a GSR machine and what is the approximate cost. I too have been doing SR for a short time and would like to see my progress.
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all (GSR machine)
Posted by Walt Stoll on January 30, 1999 at 10:34:37:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all posted by Frank M on January 29, 1999 at 08:14:37:
Dear Frank,
I would be interested to know why you put this subject under this title. The idea is to put your subject under a title that would help others find the same information you are requesting.
This has been somewhat of a problem in the past with this BB but it seems to becoming a LOT more prevalent recently. I really would like to know if it is something we are doing that we can change.
As you know, my goal in life---and the reason I donate about 6 hours a day on this BB---is to get as much information to the public as I can with the time I have to give. When information like this is hidden under some unrelated subject, no one else will ever find it.
Just this month, there have been several entries on this BB about how to build your own GSR and I have replied to the most sensitive one. Those notes have not yet been archived.
Walt
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all (GSR machine)
Posted by Frank M on February 01, 1999 at 09:38:28:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all (GSR machine) posted by Walt Stoll on January 30, 1999 at 10:34:37:
Dr Stoll,
My apologies if I placed the question in the wrong place. I thought it was a natural follow-up to the subject. I guess I need a better understanding of the posting process. I usually read all the posts on a subject and it seemed to fit that track. Sorry
Follow Ups:
Re: Not bursitis after all (GSR machine) (posting?)
Posted by Walt Stoll on February 02, 1999 at 12:36:31:
In Reply to: Re: Not bursitis after all (GSR machine) posted by Frank M on February 01, 1999 at 09:38:28:
Dear Frank,
Don't be sorry. I was just seeking information. We are ALL learning here.
Walt