Dear VMD,
Acupuncture might help for awhile. However, the true solution to this is your discharging all of your total body muscle tension (bracing) that is behind your habit of allowing your teeth to touch when you are not biting something.
In the long run, the only thing that will resolve this is your learning an effective skilled relaxation technique and practicing it at least 20 minutes twice a day (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring). You will have to break the habit of allowing your teeth to touch but that will be easy once your total-body bracing is discharged.
Walt
Well, again I tried to eat a small 1/2 teaspoon of mashed potato and nearly choked. Unfortunately, it appears that the mouth splint I have been wearing for nearly a year has misaligned my bite so bad that I wonder if I will ever be able to eat solid food or even pureed food again.
I have tried all kinds of therapies and the muscles are relaxed, the joints are healthy but the dentist moved my bite to the point that only the back molars touch. Try eating with only 4 teeth touching and LOTS of space inbetween. My joints are aching after that one try. Like I said, I nearly choked. Kinda scary.
I wonder if there is a TMJ doctor anywhere in the country that can help me get my bite back into a place inwhich I can eat again. It was NEVER this bad.
Because of the pressure on my back molars, one of them cracked on the top. It will need to be crowned in a years time.
Any suggestions? This looks to be more than body bracing now. I can't have rolfing either due to some health problems. Gentle massage is working though.
I wish I had done the massage and other therapies before I saw this dentist. All I probably needed was a night splint but he talked me into changing my bite and preparing it for surgery. I don't think surgery would be a good idea right now and ESPECIALLY with him.
Any suggestions?
I am going to see a biofeedback person and will be having another cranial sacral therapy session.
thanks,
pamela
In Reply to: TMJ Blues posted by Pamela J on May 27, 1998 at 00:36:48:
please see my post concerning cranio-sacral therapy. i have a bite misalignment due to an auto wreck and various dental procedures over the years. not as severe as yours and as yet it hasn't caused any pain, it's mostly a cosmetic problem for me. however after cranio-sacral work my jaw is much more relaxed so the technique could be of use to you; i've heard it's effective for tmj. it's very gentle and relaxing and deals directly with the problem area.
In Reply to: Re: TMJ Blues posted by dp on May 27, 1998 at 12:56:12:
Thanks. I already had one visit with a cranial sacral therapist plus several visits with a skilled massage therapist. It has helped but is expensive. I will have at least 3 more cranial sessions.
Tomorrow I start on biofeedback. It appears that the Candida I suffer from has contributed to it too. That is improving.
It appears there is little else I can do. Accupuncture is the only other alternative.
In Reply to: TMJ Blues posted by Pamela J on May 27, 1998 at 00:36:48:
Dear Pamela,
I hope you have noticed that I have NEVER recommended splints of mouth guards for TMJ--some because of your experience. It is a shame that so many dentists hold themselves out to be TMJ specialists when they know so little of the causes. Some of these treatments (like some surgeries) side effects are not reversable by anything I know.
The dentist who intreoduced me to the marvelous effectiveness of a holistic approach for myself AND my patients was the first dentist in KY to learn about TMJ. When he began treating his patients for it (successfully, I might add) the KY Dental Association called him a quack and insisted that TMJ did not exist & that he was just trying to make money off his patients by inventing things to treat. He refused to stop helping his patients so the KDA retaliated by taking his Pediodontics license away from him.
Ten years later the local Dental School had a TMJ department in the school. However, they did not acknowledge his pioneering apparently because it would be too embarassing for them to admit their mistake. However, because of that, they never asked him to bring them up to speed in what he, by then, knew about TMJ.
As a consequence, the intentionally ignorant professors of dentistry have had to invent the wheel all over again & what they teach about TMJ is a travesty. You can't really blame your dentist, he was probably doing exactly what he had been taught.
I can refer you to this dentist in KY & he probably could tell you of someone in your area who IS knowledgable. Just tell him that I suggested you call.
I HOPE that you have not been so damaged by treatment that drastic measures will be needed.
It wil take at least a year before the absence of "bracing" will allow your bite to return to "normal". Bony relationships do not change that quickly.
Call Mike Lerner, DMD at (606) 223-0009. His email is
SMYLZBYMHL@AOL.COM
Let us know what you learn & how you do. What ever you do, be sure to continue the skilled relaxation at least twice a day for 20 minutes (not counting any done within 2 hours of retiring). Less than that will NEVER discharge enough bracing to allow this to "heal".
Walt
In Reply to: Re: TMJ Blues posted by Walt Stoll on May 29, 1998 at 09:54:54:
Thanks Dr Stoll. I will give him a call. I hope I find something I can do. The muscles are relaxing but the whole swallowing system is not functioning.
My MD wanted me to have a psychiatric evaluation. It felt terrible when he said that. I realized I was not being heard...again.
Thanks,
pamela
In Reply to: Re: TMJ Blues posted by Pamela J on May 29, 1998 at 16:43:14:
Pamela,
I have been down that "I’m going to give you a referral to a psychiatrist" road. If the doc doesn’t know what to do with your symptoms, well then, it must somehow be your fault! In a sense, TMJ is all in your head anyway, right?
If they knew what to do, the disease process wouldn’t be know as "chronic," because it would be handled the first time around. Being referred to a psychiatrist for experiencing our very real, meaningful, and misunderstood symptoms is something like being sent to an ophthalmologist for questionable taste in art. Hello, doctor, I’m not blind, why don’t you open YOUR ears and eyes!
This is as far into my diatribe as I’m going to go. I apologize. I have no experience with TMJ, but your experience sounds so tragic and outrageous. It has obviously pushed my button. I just mean to support your efforts to find your way through the morass to a solution. I believe you’re on the way.
I'm pulling for you,
Jim
In Reply to: Re: TMJ Blues posted by Pamela J on May 29, 1998 at 16:43:14:
Dear Pamela,
This is a direct echo of Jim's post. No way do you have a psychiatric problem! The doc can't figure out what's going on with you, so God forbid rather than take some personal responsibility, showw concern and compassion, and do some research even within strict allopathic terms, he'd rather pawn you off on someone else, thereby absolving himself of guilt and that nasty term "extra work".
It just occured to me that you might mention to idiot doc that since you have a severe swallowing problem, could it be related to some dysfunction of your fifth cranial (trigeminal) nerve?
Lots of love,
Kyra
In Reply to: Re: TMJ Blues posted by Pamela J on May 29, 1998 at 16:43:14:
Thanks Dr Stoll for the phone number. Also, thank you Kyra and Jim for the support. That was healing in itself. ;)
Dr. Lerner said the swallowing mechanism is something that has to be right on target. There are many bones, joints and muscles moving together for it to work. I can swallow liquids so it is still functioning. The solids and even mush are what I have alot of trouble with. I choke. The food gets stuck in the back and I have trouble moving my tongue and palate to get it down.
He suggested I see a good cranial osteopath. I found the number for one in town and will call on Monday. I also have the number of an oral surgeon who has a good reputation. I don't want surgery. I hope I don't have to do that. I just want a DIAGNOSIS as to what is happening. I hope I can find someone who understands the process of swallowing well enough to know why it is not working well and who has suggestions to get it back to normal again.
At least the pain and the tightness are improving. The stress of all of this sure is not helping. I have spent a thousand dollars this month trying to get some answers and to get it to relax.
The Ensure is starting to not agree with me so well anymore. I think there is an imbalance in me of nutrition. I felt better on soup than this.
It is possible that stress is complicating the problem, but the whole jaw just does not feel right and the mouth splint is uncomfortable.
I just have to wait for x-rays and keep trying. Dr. Lerner gave me some ideas of what might work. Everything he told me was similar to what I was thinking to.
He told me not to give up.
Thanks,
pamela j
In Reply to: Re: TMJ Blues posted by Pamela J on May 29, 1998 at 16:43:14:
Dear Pamela,
Patience. It will take you 6-12 months of appropriately practicing the skilled relaxation before this problem with the swallowing will be resolved.
Walt
Dear Walt,
I had my first session with a cranialsacral therapist and the experience was surprising. I did not know what to expect. My chest and throat are very tight and I have trouble breathing deeply and swallowing.
The therapist was very kind and gentle. She gently worked around my body and told me that the upper mouth splint I wore for my TMJ had definitely affected my upper palate. She placed her hand gently on the roof of my mouth and I felt the palate relax. She moved her hands gently on the back of my head and I felt my throat open up and relax. Then she worked on opening my chest. She held her hands careful on a portion of my upper spine in the neck and after a few minutes it opened and relaxed. I started taking deep breaths. I had not been able to breath this easily in a long time. She adjusted my hips too and said that this might be related to my jaw and throat tightness.
After the session I was wiped out. I had to sleep for several hours. It has been a few days since the adjustment and I feel much calmer and more relaxed. I still am on liquids but I can now drink papaya juice. I am getting better. My chest and throat feel far more open and relaxed.
She recommended at least 2 more sessions.
Thanks so much for recommending cranialsacral therapy.
She told me that many people who wear mouth appliances or have dental work need an adjustment and there are some who wear braces and are not affected at all. She said that some are just more sensitive then others.
I look forward to the next 2 sessions. My mind is more clear. I felt like I was in a fog. My eyes focus a little better too.
Thanks Walt,
pamela
In Reply to: My first cranialsacral therapy session posted by Pamela J. on May 09, 1998 at 13:56:56:
Great post. I'm right now in the process of setting an appointment for cranio-sacral therapy. It's nice to hear a success story. I'll post my experience, too, as I've heard some very impressive things about the technique.
In Reply to: My first cranialsacral therapy session posted by Pamela J. on May 09, 1998 at 13:56:56:
I am so glad that you had a good experience. I hope you continue to do better and better. I too have a seriously stiff neck, throat and chest muscles with shallow breating and difficulty swallowing. I have never done cranialsacral therapy. I would be nervous about finding someone who really knew what they were doing. How did you find your therapist? Have you been able to hold your adjustment? Can you still breath better? Thank you for sharing with us. Terri
In Reply to: Re: My first cranialsacral therapy session posted by B 12 terri on May 10, 1998 at 03:14:03:
Dear Teri,
I found the cranial sacral therapist through my chiropractor. He told me that she is very gentle and many people have had good results with her. She has had many years of training with massage and she trained with he Upledger Institute(sp) for her cranial work.
Walt suggests that we go through the Cranial Academy but after speaking with her on the phone, I had a good feeling about her.
After several days, I continue to feel better. I am trying to relax my shoulders everytime I catch myself tensing them up. I have had 4 massage treatments and that helped very much.
I practice deep breathing techniques all day long that I learned in the book that Walt recommends - The Stress & Relaxation Workbook. I love that book.
What Walt calls 'body bracing' and 'chest bracing' massage therapists call 'body armoring'. Same concept. So if you use the term 'body armoring' the therapist should know what you are talking about. I have alot of body armoring in the chest area. The cranial work helped loosen it up.
The massage therapist said it goes away in layers. She has worked much of it away but there are still more layers. I suppose that Rolfing does this faster but I don't think I am up to Rolfing yet. It is a very DEEP body massage. For some it can be painful and for some it is not. I think it depends upon the massage therapist and how much tension and emotion you are holding in that area. This is what I read. Once your release those feelings and thoughts you are holding in that body part, the muscles loosen and the massage is not painful.
Hope you find a good therapist.
peace and love,
pamela
In Reply to: My first cranialsacral therapy session posted by Pamela J. on May 09, 1998 at 13:56:56:
Dear Pam,
Thanks for your testimonial. This really IS something one must experience, isn't it?
Remember, this is just a treatment. In the end, your skilled relaxation is the only thing that will prevent you from having to do THIS for the rest of your life.
Even if money were no object, and you got a CS adjustment every week, you would eventually find that it would not "do the trick" any more. Now, while you are feeing better, is the ideal time to become a real student of skilled relaxation.
Walt
Dear Dr. Stoll,
This is kinda gross but is a big problem nevertheless and is quite embarrassing. I have a virtually continuous dailu sinus drainage. Chokes me terribly, can only be gagged out. arrrrghh I have several bouts of this a day in which it takes a half hour or more to get rid of it so I can swallow in peace.
I asked my doctor "where does all this phlegm come from, surely my nasal cavities can't produce this amount for this long, so quickly." He told me that my sinuses were drawing fluids from surrounding tissues but didn't tell me why and didn't offer help for this except for just giving me an antibiotic and claritin. Neither of which help. I've also tried allergy shots, antihistamines, nasal-crom, and nothing helps.
Also, am concerned about the constant clearing of my throat and hacking causing throat cancer.
Is there help!
In Reply to: Choking my head off... posted by Miserable on May 11, 1998 at 13:25:12:
Dear Miserable,
I too was miserable like this and pills never helped much. When I stopped eating preservatives, my sinuses cleared up. When I stopped drinking milk it got even better. Dr. Stoll recommends a wellness program of daily meditation, a whole foods diet and exercise 3 times a week.
When I cleaned up my diet, my sinuses improved. I also take the essential oils like Dr. Stoll advised. I eat very LITTLE sugar and no fried foods either. I try not to eat any chemicals at all. No food dyes or additives.
There is hope... I will never eat preservatives again for when I do, the sinuses start draining again. I might get a little bit of drainage when I have been cleaning up a lot of dust, but it is NOTHING like what I lived with. My allergies seem to have nearly cleared up as well.
I am continuing to change my lifestyle and many little annoying ailments are getting better. My skin is more clear too.
I KNOW how you are suffering. I was miserable everyday. I had trouble breathing with all the sinus drainage and it was embarrassing when I needed to clear my throat in front of others. I feared choking if I did not.
Hope you find what works for you...
pamela
In Reply to: Re: My first cranialsacral therapy session posted by Walt Stoll on May 11, 1998 at 10:23:19:
Dear Walt,
Thanks for the information. I had a feeling that if I did NOT do the skilled relaxation daily that it might tighten up again and then I would need another adjustment.
I will have two more sessions. I hope to see a biofeedback person soon that helps those with chronic pain. I want to see if I am relaxing in the brain wave pattern you recommended. I hope I am.
Thanks again.
In Reply to: Choking my head off... posted by Miserable on May 11, 1998 at 13:25:12:
Dear Miserable,
I used to feel like I had cobwebs in my lungs and would sometimes have to lie down and be perfectly still simply in order to take in enough oxygen. I was diagnosed as having chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. I, too, tried all kinds of things, both conventional and alternative, and I can second a lot of what Pamela said. Have you noticed whether your attacks tend to occur after eating? In the end, what helped me the most was taking acid tablets or capsules (HCl and pepsin) after eating. You can test this by drinking a glass of water with a tablespoon or two of cider vinegar in it after a meal. If that helps, it's an indication that you produce insufficient stomach acid.
As Pamela mentioned, milk is very bad about causing excess phlegm. (It's the protein in the milk that is the problem, by the way, so getting lactose-free milk or taking lactase tablets won't help.) I stopped consuming any form of milk about 5 years ago. Later, I found that I could tolerate milk products in moderation if I took the acid tablets, but by that time I had stopped missing milk products (except for ice cream :).
In Reply to: Re: My first cranialsacral therapy session posted by Pamela J. on May 10, 1998 at 14:52:08:
Thanks Pamela, I wish you were in my area and then I could go to your therapist! So far the southern california area doesn't seem to have many. I have been asking around and so far most people recommend someone at least an hour away. I am anxious to get started. I know I have been body bracing since early childhood. I am so glad that you are getting the assistance that you need and that you are seeing results. That is great to hear. Take good care of yourself. Terri
In Reply to: Choking my head off... posted by Miserable on May 11, 1998 at 13:25:12:
Dear Miserable,
First of all everyone produces at least a quart & a half of respiratory fluid every 24 hours. This "first line of defence" is essential to protect us from being sick from respiratory viruses & bacteria ALL THE TIME. This is why everyone swallows every few seconds.
NOW, having said that, one can increase this volume if they have the habit of allowing their teeth to touch when they are not biting something. The mechanisms for this increase are too complex to go into here. Check yourself out. If your wife tells you that you "grind your teeth at night" don't bother because you have to have had this habit for many years before one starts grinding. If you have TMJ, you are increasing your flow by at least double. Of course, your TMJ is a far advanced complication of this habit.
Next, the chronic fight or flight "readiness" caused by storage of intolerable stress-effect in your hypothalamus keeps your system in a "sympathetic" (alarm) mode 24 hours a day. You surely have noticed that when people are nervous their mouth gets dry? Well, when one is in the fight or flight mode 24 hours a day, the excess mucus you are producing from the tight jaw habit gets thicker-----SO YOU NOTICE IT MORE.
Is this making sense to you yet?
Besides, when people are doing what you are doing above, they automatically cut off the circulation to their intestinal tract and Leaky Gut Syndrome becomes inevitable. LGS is the most common cause of food allergies and allergies are the most common (imunological) cause of congested & overproductinve sinuses. Are you beginning to see how this is all connected?
If you want to understand how you are causing this, you need 2 references. I would do them in this order: 1. "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer" by Dr Pelletier and, when you are ready to know what to DO about it---2. Read a copy of MY book (link on this page).
Once you have the above as part of YOUR understanding, if you still have questions, write again.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Choking my head off... posted by Walt Stoll on May 13, 1998 at 11:49:27:
Wow Walt, that was a fantastic explanation. It MAKES great sense. So that is why I have more allergies and food senstivies as my TMJ and stomach problems progressed.
I have been working at my bad habit of teeth touching. One of the TMJ doctors told me to try to rest my tongue on the roof of my mouth (gently) and to relax my jaw. This has helped me not touch my teeth.
As the stomach problem and tmj progressed, I noticed an increase in thick sinus drainage.
I know I must become very skilled at daily meditation. I am working at it and seeing results.
All the books you recommended have been VERY helpful.
Thanks Walt.
peace and love,
pamela j.
a quick post re: cranio-sacral therapy. i did my 1st session yesterday and i'm very pleasantly surprised. i have had tremendous intermittent pain in both shoulder for the last couple years with an accompanying gradual loss of range of movement. today the pain is mostly gone, just some stiffness and flexibilty has increased by several inches without discomfort. the treatment itself was really relaxing almost hypnotic. i mainly wanted to relieve some of the tension i hold in my head neck and shoulders (a common problem i think) and i must say it was agreat success. my therapist says try 3 or 4 treatments and that should do it for awhile. i'm very pleased.
In Reply to: cranio-sacral therapy posted by dp on May 27, 1998 at 12:49:00:
Dear dp,
Thanks for the testimonial.
NOW, is the time for you to concentrate on the skilled relaxation.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: cranio-sacral therapy posted by Walt Stoll on May 29, 1998 at 10:23:19:
i'm doing 20 min. morning, 30 min. afternoon, 30 min. evening, with outstanding results. thanks. i might add that the skilled relaxation produces results in other areas of life as well. for anyone willing to put in the time it will pay for itself many times over.