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dear dr. stoll 8-8-99
how kind of you to lend your expertise freely to these questions, thank you.
being a very holistic person and having been a bit harmed 7 yrs ago by allopaths who seem to have forgotten their oaths of "First do no harm", i have been selective regarding my 3 1/2 year olds medical care. she's very healthy, no major illnesses, no ear infections ever, and only a few little colds (ok , she did get the lovely coxsackie virus & rotovirius once each!).
i have deliberately postponed any immunizations. we will probably give her the tetanus vaccine this month, her first shot ever. I have concerns with the aluminum adsorbed versions, as it seems another questionable additive is involved. i also don't really like the concept of taxing an immune system with 2 different diseases one is not likely to acquire simultaneously in the wild (ie tetanus AND diptheria). would you recommend the tetanus fluid toxoid vs the adsorbed vs the DT combo and why?
thank you for sharing your thoughts:)
i linked into mhere via the hyperimmune tetanus injection posting of Mari Hall (i assume that was a immunoglobulin ER TIG treatment and not series vaccine killed toxoid?
By the way, i may stop at this vaccine series (ie tetanus only or tetanus diptheria). if not, which other, if any, would you prioritize next for a - by then -4 year old girl?
In Reply to: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by ctlady on August 09, 1999 at 00:42:40:
In Reply to: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by ctlady on August 09, 1999 at 00:42:40:
Hi, ctlady.
I would look at oral polio as a very worth while immunization: low risk with high benefit. If children are kept healthy with whole foods, in MY opinion, they have little to fear from the "usual childhood diseases".
Actually, in my experience, the worst problem is that they won't even get them (let alone not having any of the complications). If their immunity is too good for them to get them as children, they will have to conitinue their wellness program as adults or they will get them as adults and that is not so good.
Hope this is making sense to you.
By the way, you would be interested in the AMA's changes made in the Hippocratic Oath within the past 30 years. See my note today about it.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by Walt Stoll on August 11, 1999 at 15:09:00:
walt
thank you so much for your time!
i didn't catch your preference for tetanus FLUID or adsorbed (the latter with aluminum to prolong antigenic response?)
also, i'm leaning towards tetanus only instead of diptheria and tetanus together...your thoughts?
one manufactuere lists final thermerisaol content as <0.01%, the other manufacturer as 1:10,000 --- are these apples to apples (ie .01 vs .0001 %?) cannaught vs Lederele Labs.
anyone u think i should talk to on these minute details?
thanx again :)
In Reply to: WALT / DAVE too please:Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by ctlady on August 11, 1999 at 23:54:13:
Hi, ctlady.
If I remember my arithmetic right (At least 40 years old.), the 1/10,000 is the same as the 0.01%.
I don't think the aluminum does a better job than the non-aluminum----so why use it?
I would tend to avoid both pertussis and diphtheria but that has to be a personal choice since they are still around.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by Walt Stoll on August 11, 1999 at 15:09:00:
I hope I'm reading this wrong. I don't see the Polio vaccination as any benefit in the US. As for Tetanus, during all of World War 2 there were only 12 cases(4 of which were in vaccinated persons). A decrease of 205/100,000 from the Civil War to .44/100,000 in WW2. Wound hygiene has pretty much eliminated the disease.
In order to decrease the severe reactions to the tetanus vaccine, it has been significantly diluted, causing it to be clinically ineffective. Nevertheless, complications that have occured followign tetanus vaccinations include: high fever, pain, recurrent abscess formation, inner ear nerve damage, demyelination neuropath, anaphylactic shock, and loss of consciousness.
Isacc Golden, Ph.D "Vaccinations? A Review of Risks and Alternatives" 1991
POLIO-90% of all those (unvaccinated) exposed to the polio virus
produce no symptoms, even under epidemic conditions..M. Burnett and D.
White, The Natural History of Infectious Disease (New York, NY: Cambridge
University Press, 1972), p. 16 Polio is virtually nonexixtent in the
United States today; however there is no credible evidence that the vaccine
caused polio to disappear...R. Mendelson MD, How To Raise A Healthy
Child..In Spite of Your Doctor(Chicago: Contemporary Books, 1984), p. 228
>From 1923 to 1953, before the Salk killed virus vaccine was introduced, the
polio death rate in the U.S. and England had already declined on its own by
47% and 55%, respectively. The introduction did nothing to speed up the
decline of the disease...Michael Alderson, International Mortality
Statistics (Washington, DC:Facts on File, 1981), pp. 177-178 In fact the
number of reported cases of polio following mass inoculations with the
killed virus vaccine was significantly greater than before mass
inoculations, and may have more than doubled in the US as a whole.
Massachusetts alone went from 273 cases from August 30 1953 to August 1954,
to 2027 cases in the year from Aug 30 1954 to Aug 30 1954...H Allen, Don't
Get Stuck: The Case Against Vaccinations..( Oldsmar, FL: Natural Hygiene
Press, 1985), p 146 The CDC reports that between 1973 and 1983 87% of
the Polio cases were caused by the vaccine itself. More recently from 1980
thru 1989, EVERY case of polio in the US was caused by the vaccine(excluding
5 imported cases). And three of the five imported cases had been vaccinated
against the disease...PM Strebel, et al "Epidemiology of Poliomyelitis in
the US..." Clinical Infectious Diseases, (CDC, February 1992) pp 568-79
Skewing the reported effectiveness was necessary. Figures from the Los
Angeles Health Index: Morbidity and Mortality, Reportable Diseases reveals this.
sample months reported cases of polio reported cases of aceptic meningitis
July 1955
(before 273 50
vaccine)
Sept 1966
(after 5 256
vaccine)
Quotes from Dr. Jonas Salk.."When you inoculate children with a plio vaccine
you don't sleep well for two or three weeks" he also testified that the live
virus vaccine (used almost exclusivly in the US since 1961) was " the
principal if not sole cause" of all reported polio cases in the US since
1961...Washington Post, (Sept 24, 1976).
In Reply to: Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on August 15, 1999 at 22:07:04:
dr. dave
yes, i too was surprised to see the polio shot recommandation, although this is my first visit to this web site and i wasn't sure where you all were coming from. My understanding is that all the very few cases of polio in the US in the last 20 yrs have been directly due to the live oral polio vaccine!! Was dr. stoll recommending killed IPV for some reason?
i had decided against all vaccines except for the simple tetanus fluid (not the aluminum absorbed or diptheria combo), and had not given polio a thought. could my 4 yr old get polio from oral vaccinated kids in the pools? ie is being exposed to their OPV sheds basically the equivalent risk of getting the OPV itself?
In Reply to: Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by David Ferguson, D.C. on August 15, 1999 at 22:07:04:
Thanks, Doc Dave.
I was hopiing I could depend on you for this kind of information. You know that I am not strong for immunizations. However, there is too much information on both sides of the fence for me to come down hard on either side. I REALLY appreciate your input.
Walt
In Reply to: DR. DAVE >>Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots/polio comment posted by ctlady on August 16, 1999 at 00:24:32:
Yes, it's possible to get Polio from the feces of those who have recently recieved the OPV. Unfortunately, in Finland, where they started giving the OPV, some got Polio anyway despite being vaccinated. In the US the only people to get polio are those who either directly get it from the vaccine or from contact such as we're describing. Sadly, having had the vaccinations is no guarantee of not getting the disease if you come into contact with such feces. Unless the child were to get the OPV, swim within the next day or so, drop a little something special in the pool, and your child come into contact with it then this would be a very unlikely way of getting the disease. More often, and what I am careful of, is changing the diaper of any child who has recently had the OPV. That should apply to ANYONE, even if they have been vaccinated. At least, that's my understanding of the whole thing.
In Reply to: DR. DAVE >>Re: further inquiry to tetanus shots/polio comment posted by ctlady on August 16, 1999 at 00:24:32:
Dear ctlady,
Just to let you know where I am coming from. I was the first practicing physician in Ohio to legally challenge the concept that every child had to have a small pox vaccine to enter school. The very statistic you mentioned was operant then for small pox. The only cases of small pox for years had been from the vaccine. Within 4 years of my challenge, small pox vaccine was no longer required.
If Bill finds the extensive article I wrote about this a coup[le of years ago, I think you will have a better appreciation of the controversy. With one of my physicians researching the world literature about this for a couple of months (both pro and con) we came up with 11 pages of single spaced, narrow margin pages of data and none of us could come down firmly on either side of the fence.
The best we could do was print out what we had and offer it to every concerned parent and they had to make up their own mind. That was in 1979. Since then, in MY opinion, most of the additional research comes down on the side of caution about routine immunizations.
I STILL believe strongly that by far the best policy is to emphasize wellness in the family and the children will have little to fear from these conditions when they are not "immunized". How many families will put out that much effort IS a valid question. However, I firmly believe that families who DO must have the right to refuse routine immunizations.
Children who live a unhealthy lifestyle (diet, etc.) might well live a lot longer, with fewer crippling complications of these diseases, if they are immunized.
Thanks for your note since it gives me a chance to try to clarify this--so much as it CAN be.
Questions?
Walt
In Reply to: further inquiry to tetanus shots posted by ctlady on August 09, 1999 at 00:42:40:
I'm wondering, is there any situation where you're required to have a tetanus shot? I seem to remember I needed one to travel to the Far East, or maybe even just to England, but that seems impossible. Does anyone have any more information on that? Thanks.
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